Guild Wars 2

Of course, the other way of looking at this thread is this…

An opponent engaged in a 1v1 with you took 13 minutes to finally kill you.

Nerf Necromancer survivability!

Darkwolf.6291:

Of course, the other way of looking at this thread is this…

An opponent engaged in a 1v1 with you took 13 minutes to finally kill you.

Nerf Necromancer survivability!

lolololol. Obviously a troll post but applause. No 1v1 fight in Gw2 should last longer than 10 seconds! OP I SAY! OP! /sarcasm off. Wow yeah us mesmers were so caught up defending our class/trying to give advice we never thought of that.

I don’t know why you feel we should have to do your homework for you … and this is really the wrong forum for advice how to play the necro class … but as a former Mesmer that is a Necro I will throw in my 0.02.

You are cherry picking the best of multiple specs for the Mesmer class in your list. You can’t have all of that list at the same time.

You also ignore the benefits of the Necro over Mesmer. Here is the list of what I have all in one spec over a Mesmer:
- A short cooldown heal that eats all conditions
- A 25% full time speed boon trinket that provides an AE lifetap heal when activated.
- Unblockable large radius ground targeted attacks. (ground target > stealth)
- The ability to attack targets from a wall/ledge or targets on a wall/ledge.
- The ability to instantly convert all boons on a player to conditions on a VERY short cooldown. (might → confusion owns)
- The ability to transfer conditions to a target. (Dagger 4)
- Chill
- Poison
- Weakness
- Fear
- The ability to transfer conditions on a target to all other targets in the area.
- LichForm
Oh, and I forgot …
- 2 freaking lifebars ?!?!?!

I highly suggest you stop crying here and actually go ask questions on the Necro forums on how to improve your gameplay.

Lol, it just happens that my main is a Mesmer and my first alt is a Necro. And I can say that both professions play very differently. But wouldn’t give an advantage to either of them. They have but one thing in common: they require skill to be good.

I run either well or corruption skills on my necromancer and I’m having a blast with it. First time with that Necro in WvW (I was lvl 65 or smth) I could already take on a full lvl 80 player and a upleveled one. They ended up retreating, because my conditions were just eating them slowly away while I just was impossible to kill.

I also engaged a mesmer when I hit lvl 80. For I knew exactly how mesmers work, I could easily deal with him. Illusions hacked away with wells and marks, while the mesmers tried to run being freezed and then cripled. I don’t wanna know what beast my necro will be, once I get my full exotic gear (still no exotic rings and stuff, also I have no runes atm)

Ruufio.1496:

The Mesmer is OP because:

- They create NPCs.
- Having to destroy clones is blind effect X 100.
- Invisibility.
- Invulnerability every 10 seconds.
- Chaos armor which is the best combo effect in the game.
- Time Warp.
- Portal.
- Confusion which is around 1K damage per attack.
- One of the highest burst damage in the game.
- Some of the best abilities in the game to disengage any fight.
- Multiple dazes/stuns.
- Easy access to retaliation.
- Reflection.
- Too many invincible skills; Block, invulnerability, distortion.
- Class with one of the highest amount of access to boons and a LOT of boons.
- Massive boon removal and condition removal.

Just look at the Mesmer traits. Mesmer has the most exciting to choose traits in the entire game. You can’t look at them without going, “Omg… WHAT SHALL I CHOOSE????!!!!”

You look at traits for classes like Necromancer? Lol. Not even comparable.

So please, tell me more of how this invincible class of invincibleness isn’t overpowered that can regain boons whenever it pleases (Which goes against Anets policy of having boons up constantly such as retaliation) can make opponents attacks deal damage to himself with confusion, retaliation AND reflection, creates NPCs that which are overpowered in every way but to top it off also shoot at you in your downed state which the Mesmer runs off, etc. etc.

The mesmer can do everything that every other class put together can do.

Here is a list of why necro is OP (purposely presented as biased as you presented yours):
- they can create NPCs
- they can corrupt all my boons
- they can spread all the conditions to my allies
- additional life bar every 10s (sometimes every 5s)
- shape shift into condition spreading cloud with kittening blind + freeze (if traited)
- applying millions stacks of bleed and endless poison
- the highest life bar in game + additional life bar (are u kidding? This is so OP)
- some of the best abilities in game to prevent disengaging a fight
- Multiple daze/stuns
- Easy access to might
- Easy access to retaliation
- Class with the best ability to remove any boon on target
- insane AoE spamming

And I have the same problem with Necro. I love the death shroud traits (especially the ones providing boons). I would like to trait them all to just change to death shroud for some secs to get all that boons and then I want all the well traits + corruption traits + spectral traits.

No. seriously: Playing both professions (mesmer and necro) the most of my time I can safely say: They are both really strong, ikittennow what you’re doing. They have different advantages and disadvantages, but their strengths makes up for that.

In reply to Ruufio’s most recent post (text omitted for brevity):

Yes, mesmers can do all the things in that list, but certainly not simultaneously! Every class has some very powerful tools at its disposal. This post incorrectly implies that a mesmer has the ability to do everything on the list at one time, but it actuality a mesmer needs to choose carefully which of the things he or she wants to pick up. Now let’s look at your post in detail.

-We can create NPCs, but so can Necros, Elementalists, Thieves, Guardians, Engineers (if you count turrets). Rangers have permanent NPCs helping them, but they don’t seem all too overpowered.

-You do not HAVE to destroy clones. Unless you’re fighting a condition mesmer, you should probably ignore them. In general, it’s only worth it to destroy phantasms, which are CLEARLY identifiable.

-Our invisibility is very limited and mainly used as a target drop. Learn how to spot the real mesmer and this will stop being an issue.

-If you are referring to the sword invulnerability (since Distortion is on a 60 sec cooldown), yes it’s a good skill but it also immobilizes us, and the immobilize skill on the sword is short-range and unreliable. Also, invulnerability does nothing to stop existing conditions on us.

-I can’t deny that chaos armor is good, but if you see it on your opponent, consider slowing down your attacks for a few moments.

-Time warp is powerful, but it is most useful in a group scenario. 1v1 you can CC the mesmer, use a defensive skill, or gasp move out of his range until time warp is finished.

-Portal, like time warp, really shines in a group setting. Yes, it can be used well in a solo scenario to escape, but it is on a very long cooldown. Just take note of where the entrance portal is placed and you can anticipate the mesmer’s moves.

-Confusion – Don’t attack if you have it on you. Remove it or take a breather. Any mesmer who puts tons of stacks on you at once is talented as such a thing is difficult in and of itself, but also probably spent a lot of cooldowns to do it. Take advantage of this.

-Burst damage: dodge roll INTO the shatters and don’t stand in Blurred Frenzy. Those are our main sources of direct burst damage.

-We are not too great disengaging fights. Sure, we have a few seconds of stealth here and there to try and trick you and we can get a little swiftness if we run focus, but generally any class with a passive movement increase has the upper hand on us if we try to run.

-To get tons of stuns and dazes as you claim, a mesmer would have to run Signet of Domination, Pistol, and offhand Sword. This prevents the mesmer from using the very powerful Greatsword and Staff and such a build is extremely rare. AT MOST you can expect a mesmer to have two stuns, though one or none would be much more common.

-Reflection: Don’t wildly shoot into Feedback or Temporal Curtain. Try sidestepping slightly so that you aren’t shooting through them. Also, some mesmers have reflection upon distortion. If this is the case, try not shooting wildly at them for the MAXIMUM of four seconds that they can have it up on themselves.

-Too many invulnerabilities: Most mesmers don’t run the weapons that allow us to block as they’re generally considered sub-par. Distortion is on a long cooldown and Blurr prevents us from moving around and doing other things.

-Boons: Yes, we have a fair number of them, but not nearly as many as you are portraying. Might from Shattered Strength is pretty common, as is Vigor from Critical Infusion. Staff bounces provide boons here and there. Unless a mesmer specializes specifically in maintaining boons (resulting in a tankier, lower-damage build), I would argue that many classes (see: Warrior, Guardian, Elementalist, Engineer, etc) are able to maintain as many or more boons than the average mesmer.

-Massive boon and condition removal. Here you just have your facts wrong. We can use Null Field (which an opponent can easily dodge out of) or Arcane Thievery to remove conditions and boons. Both of these are on fairly lengthy cooldowns and Arcane Thievery is bugged and doesn’t always work. I’m not sure how this counts as “massive.”

Finally, I’m going to ignore the bottom portion of your post as the above shows that it is completely hyperbolic; it only serves to show your lack of understanding of the mesmer if you think we are invincible and can perform the roles of all classes simultaneously.

TL;DR: A mesmer cannot run a 30/30/30/30/30 spec whilst triple-wielding greatswords. Your frustration with the mesmer class is mainly based on your own lack of understanding, as evidenced by your many complaints, especially with regard to how “overpowered” clones are and how unpreventably lethal confusion is. I recommend that you study the mesmer and learn the common builds and how to counter them. As many have said, the Necromancer is generally seen as having an innate advantage over the Mesmer. That being said, I’ve met Necromancers who I facerolled in a matter of seconds and others who completely wiped the floor with me. Please try and use this thread to learn how to become a better player instead of arrogantly assuming that your defeat was the result of class imbalance.

@Ruufio

you get lucky to find a condition mesmer… any experienced dps mesmer will knock you out in less then 2mins.

Mesmers are extremely powerfull but also extremely vulnerable and all depend on the type of player you are facing off on the other side.

Till today I only lost 1vs1 against 1 unique follow mesmer but a fantastic player… and ofc “bugged” ultra invisible thiefs that I had to swap my hole utility build to survive those 1vs1 encounters.

Thou, I also have to say that any class well played by a good player is a fantastic class, but what makes you a good player is to know when do you can fight and when do you have to run.

I can say that even now, after 7 years of gvg with mesmer in gw1 and 6 months of mesmer in gw2 with alot of WvW hours spended, alot of time I just die because arrogance/overconfidence.

You have to know the weaker points of your opponent when you engage him in combat, and that you see in the first 2/3 strikes… and notive I said opponent, not class, because that one you have to know how to engage each class with your build and gamestyle before enter in 1vs1 combat.

The talk of boons makes me think this was a Condition/Confusion Mesmer with Runes of Lyssa on. Using elite skill puts all boons on and healing grants a random boon, and that’s in addition to whatever boons they get with their build. Contrary to what some people may think, no, we do not get a gob of boons that we can consistently and constantly put on ourselves and maintain. Pretty much what Palu’s post above says. That’s the reality of it.

Basically, you ran into a build that is designed specifically to counter you. It was just a luck of the draw.

Seriously? Necro has sucky traits? No, man – Necro has problematic trait synergy.
The only Trait Necro has that absolutely bites is Reanimator. The rest, can be made to work. Now, I do agree that Lifesteal needs to scale better/Minion AI needs love, but past that – the only problem is the same a lot of Mesmer abilities have – namely, LoS bugs and whatlike. (Speaking of LoS, are you at all aware that Mesmer – by FAR – has the absolute WORST LoS in frigging game? Honestly, things any of the _other_7 professions easily hit, Mesmers eat Ye Olde Obstructed for.)

As for being “invincible”: The ONLY thing Necro needs for tanking like veritable GODS is more access to Stability. You are playing one of only two Profs with
THE highest base Health. Death Shroud – especially with high investment in Soul Reaping – is An. Entire. Second. Health. Bar. By comparison, Mesmer has medium
Health, and the invincibility/distortion/reflection/retaliation biz is the compensation for that. Just as Eles have massive scaling on Healing Power/massive stunbreak + condition removal.

As for movement: Mesmer is one of the two Profs with complete garbage for out-of-combat speed. Us and Guardian, if yer wondering. IIRC, most of this issue is ANet originally shafting us there to make up for things like Blink/Portal. Now, they’re looking into handing Portal-esque mechanics to certain other Profs – I’m pretty sure Necro was thread-mentioned as a heavy contender. The Wurm, while not great – IS a teleport option.

You also possess one of those nifty +25% runspeed Signets, and/or Spectral Walk. MESMERS have Focus 4 (not great uptime, does NOT stack with other sources of Swiftness!) Signet of Inspiration (sure – roughly a 1/8 shot of perhaps Swiftness) OR 6 Superior Runes of the Centaur/Air (both of which involve a complete Rune-spec, AND screw you out of things like … I dunno … Runes that would actually allow my Condition-Mesmer behind to: that’s right, broham, STACK more Condition Damage via Rune-spec!).

Frankly, for Time Warp – I’d personally rather the ENTIRE Quickness mechanic be bloody well SCRAPPED – since TW/Portal are what all the Mesmer-haters decry as their main “reason” this Profession’s NUMEROUS bugs should be allowed to lie fallow.

Now, if you’re still with me.
1.) Necro (of which I run one) is a VERY hardcore Profession
2.) Necro is a conditions-manipulating GOD
3.) Necro – for a frigging Scholar-type Clothie – is a bleeding TANK

Enough Mesmer-hate, man. ANY Profession/build-spec CAN and indeed WILL be killed. If you think Mesmers suck to fight, try a bunker-mode Guard or D/D Ele. If you think Mes movement is too tricky, go fight a shadowstepping/ultra-stealth Thief.
(FYI, Thieves have “clones” too – try Ambush or Thieves’ Guild.).
You think the DPS is too high? Realise that high-damage specs come with a commensurate decrease in defense. Hell, also realise that Mes DPS depends on clone/phant action, and can be mitigated in many ways. You want PURE DPS, go fight a GC Thief (mug/CnD/BS/HS) or a tricked-out Killshot Warrior.

Have a nice day.

Ruufio.1496:

The Mesmer is OP because:

- Class with one of the highest amount of access to boons and a LOT of boons.

LOL What? Really?

I would have agreed with the OP before they fixed the illusions being able to attack from behind obstacles, but not so much now (I’m a necromancer too).
Mesmers are powerful, there’s no denying that but they are not unbeatable. If you find yourself in a chaotic fight and you see a mesmer, you must remember that you’re fighting them where they are the strongest (mesmer clones are all about creating chaos and an already chaotic fight is in their favor). But I personally have had little problem dealing with most mesmers as a necromancer.

OP, I won’t tell you to L2P (I hate that stupid over-abused phrase), but if you want to know how to beat a mesmer that spams clones, I suggest you take one and do some practice with the mesmer. Get to know their skills and figure out the tricks they use and their weaknesses. After a short time playing one and against one, detecting the real mesmer among all his/her clones becomes a piece of cake.

I noticed a lot of people keep saying necro has a second health bar. Its not a second health bar! You lose all your weapon skills and ultilities while in death shroud, they get replaced with other skills. It drains slowly unlike your real health bar, and you have to build it up so its not always available. It is useful for soaking up damage but saying its a second health bar is giving it waay too much credit.(not that death shroud is bad)

btw i really like burjis advice. Practicing fighting a mesmer would probably help you(and me) deal with beating them better. My friend mains a mesmer so ill probably ask her to practice with me! :]

Thing is, OMNIBUS – DS may decrease with time, but one can trait for both slower decrease and more Life Force. Base full-out DS Life Force starts – iirc – at your Health
amount. Besides the timed decrease, it is effectively a second set of Health. I will agree with your comment on utilities/elites/weapon skills, however.

I also agree with you and burjis about learning how to kill a class by playing it. I have an alt of each Profession, for that reason … just need to get all of the silly buggers to 80, first. Or I could get more into PvP.

Advent.6193:

Thing is, OMNIBUS – DS may decrease with time, but one can trait for both slower decrease and more Life Force. Base full-out DS Life Force starts – iirc – at your Health
amount. Besides the timed decrease, it is effectively a second set of Health. I will agree with your comment on utilities/elites/weapon skills, however.

I also agree with you and burjis about learning how to kill a class by playing it. I have an alt of each Profession, for that reason … just need to get all of the silly buggers to 80, first. Or I could get more into PvP.

If it was truely a second health bar we could use all of our skills and heal it like a health bar with our heal skill/regen(life transfer is a different skill that can be dodged). It still decreases regardless of the trait, you still have to build up your life force before you can even use it while Health bar starts out full…

I’ll refrain from posting about DS again though, kinda went off topic.

Xavi.6591:

Ruufio.1496:

The Mesmer is OP because:

- Class with one of the highest amount of access to boons and a LOT of boons.

LOL What? Really?

It is true. Play with a staff and Signet of Inspiration, and you can ramp up boons very quickly. Next to that you can get a random boon from traits when you either interrupt, or use a stealth skill (both are grandmaster traits in chaos).

It’s not overpowered, though.

Kasama.8941:

Xavi.6591:

Ruufio.1496:

The Mesmer is OP because:

- Class with one of the highest amount of access to boons and a LOT of boons.

LOL What? Really?

It is true. Play with a staff and Signet of Inspiration, and you can ramp up boons very quickly. Next to that you can get a random boon from traits when you either interrupt, or use a stealth skill (both are grandmaster traits in chaos).

It’s not overpowered, though.

It is far from over powered because we usually don’t pick what boons we get where as a guardian can get all boons at the push of a button. Funny note though a necro just posted in the pvp forum asking about “necros being op?” because he beat a shatter Mesmer 1v1 and the Mesmer accused his win of being to an OP class…. Just something I thought was funny considering the start of this thread.

Ruufio.1496:

What did I say to the Mesmer? I told him to play a class that takes kittening skill. I don’t think opponents can hear you though.

If you were fighting against me and said that, i would feel pretty kitten insulted and would most probably report you. People like you need to keep their mouths shut, because not everyone choose a class based on how op they are, but because they like it.

I for one, chose to play Mesmer ever since Guild Wars 2 was annouced, i never cared about whetever they would be op or not, i just liked Mesmers concept.

If someone like you would just say kitten like that to me and tell me to play another class, i would sincerely hope that you would get banned for verbal abuse.

Lol. 13 minute fight sounds like a good fight. Better than 10s with a overpowered thief,
2.1k Toughness I have and I take 7k backstab, 5k steal, 6k cloak n dagger, a fail 3k backstab, then a load of heartseeker. Gee, thats right, 2.1k toughness and I take hits like that… zomg…

Sorry OP but it is definitely a L2 kitten ue. I have level 80 full exotics mesmer and necro and if the fight lasted as long as you said the necro should win the fight 100% of the time. Utility skills you should be using are corrupt boon and epidemic as at least 2 of the 3 utility skills. The mesmer is one of the top classes at the moment and I think the nerf to quickness but your situation is not an example of it being over powered

and you dared to say to the kind of mesmer in the video to play a class that actually requires skills?

how about you play a mesmer and tell me if you can be that powerful as you claim we all are.

playing a mesmer requires a lot of skill.

Amadan.9451:

playing a mesmer requires a lot of skill.

I literally lol’d irl lmao.

Anyways, I have played a Mesmer and it is indeed as overpowered as people claim it to be. Even Xeph in the “state of the game” video raised both his eyebrows and had a worried look when the devs mentioned that Mesmer was actually getting buffed. (Buff being the recent greatsword buff) He then questioned them as to if it was a smart idea, because…. :O they are already overpowered!

When a class is considered to be overpowered and there are threads about it all the time, it is a fact. Thieves have gotten quite a few (deserved) nerfs already. Notice how the more nerfs it got, the less threads there were? That’s because it was brought in line with other classes.

Elementalist and Mesmer are the two top classes in the game which are both in dire need of nerfs.

It was pretty hilarious when Mesmers got that LoS nerf and there were dozens of threads complaining about how they now need a target to use their skills. Ironic doesn’t even begin to describe it for people who VS a mesmer.

Ruufio.1496:

Had a 13 minute fight with a Mesmer on my Necromancer which eventually ended up with me dying because my health slowly dwindled over time until I couldn’t do anything about it. Meanwhile, the Mesmer had pretty much every boon beyond the sun up at all times.

I even tried to get out of the fight 2 different times because it was taking forever but Necros cant do that.

Any time I got him below 50% health a whole bunch of “Block block block” came up.

Throughout the entire fight there was at least 3 clones at almost all times because destroying them was useless since he would just create more 0.5 seconds later.

TL;DR
Mesmer is the worst class to fight against and the most overpowered.

If you had a 13 minute fight, that’s a sign of balance, not one class being more overpowered, lol.

Course, that being said, Mesmers are really strong in general right now, yes.