Guild Wars 2

Phantasmal Swordsman: This skill now performs a sword strike in front of the player when summoning the phantasm. If the sword strike hits, you and all Swordsmen currently summoned, gain 8 might for 10 seconds.

This patch note literally (no joking) made me hit my forehead on my desk (yes it still hurts a bit), because every single decent Mesmer knows this! Phantasms inherit the Mesmer’s main stats, wich includes Power. Therefore all Phantasms are completly unaffected by Might!

If you wanna check, visit the Test Kitty Golem, add all buffs and you’ll see they will crit between 9-9.5k regardless of the Might they have. You can even stack 25 stacks Might with CS and SoE – still 9-9.5k.

You can also do the same with 0 stacks Might on yourself and your phantasms, then let someone stack Might on the phantasms but not you. Regardless of the Phantasms Might, they will always deal the same amount of damage.

(Don’t get confused as you recieve the 8 stacks Might aswell if you do it on your own, so it looks like they get stronger by theirs but actually they don’t.)

Dear ANet, please change the skill effect from Might to a unique buff that increases outgoing damage for you and your swordsmen by ~10% instead. In case you didn’t knew – phantasms do get affected by modifiers placed on themselves. °3°

Greez
- Xyonon

From this moment on, this change should be brought up every time somebody tries to defend the balance team.

Levetty.1279:

From this moment on, this change should be brought up every time somebody tries to defend the balance team.

Defend them? I think most mesmers have moved on to not say anything in fear of fix/changes which would make things worse. We are way past the stage of even defending.

These recent changes do not get my hopes up about the mirage specialisation. Who knows, chrono turned out quite unique. Maybe not all is lost…

@Xyonon – You missed the comma in that sentence.

If the sword strike hits you and all Swordsmen currently summoned*_,_* gain 8 might for 10 seconds.

The comma changes what the sentence means. I haven’t been able to test it yet, so either they mistyped, or they are giving the might to us if this new attack hits all swordsmans already summoned.

As long as you hit one enemy with the sword swipe, you and any iSwordmen you have out, including then one you just created, get 8 might.

So they mistyped it?

They mistyped, but you added the wrong comma:

“If the sword strike hits*_,_* you and all Swordsmen currently summoned gain 8 might for 10 seconds.”

Now it makes sense eh? :P

Of course I would do something like that.

Well, it has uses in solo plays, as you struggle with might stacks. Although you don’t get the stacks if you cast your iSwordman while running to the mob.
Meh.

GLaDOS.5897:

Well, it has uses in solo plays, as you struggle with might stacks. Although you don’t get the stacks if you cast your iSwordman while running to the mob.
Meh.

The issue isn’t the mechanic of getting the might. The issue is that the fact that Anet coded this skill to give might to phantasms means that whoever made this change (presumably a balance dev) simply does not understand basic mechanics in their game.

It’s a troubling but extremely unambiguous confirmation of a fact that most people have suspected for a long time: the balance team simply is not qualified to make changes to this game.

Time for… this.

The Might on myself is appretiated, though.

[Edit]: Maybe it was intended to be a buff to Sword Thief?

Phantasms don’t benefit from might, but don’t they scale with your power, meaning that if you gain might, your phantasms still become more powerful since might gives you power? Maybe the skill change was meant to work this way and they just said your swordsman gained might to make it more understandable to others? Idk

Xstein.2187:

Maybe the skill change was meant to work this way and they just said your swordsman gained might to make it more understandable to others? Idk

They literally gain might. It just makes no sense…

Xyonon.3987:

Xstein.2187:

Maybe the skill change was meant to work this way and they just said your swordsman gained might to make it more understandable to others? Idk

They literally gain might. It just makes no sense…

Makes perfect sense from the perspective of an uninformed layperson. Give might to thing, thing hits harder. Unfortunately, it means that our balanced devs are uninformed laypeople.

Fay.2357:

Give might to thing, thing hits harder.

I …I ….. I don’t know anymore. I was hoping it was just an odd explanation for the change in the update notes. But hey, they . . . . . . tried? Or wait, maybe a dev is just trying to mess with us for payback.

lol.

Well at least the iWarden active seems cool, might play a bit with Focus again.

I… I just can’t…

Fay.2357:

The issue isn’t the mechanic of getting the might. The issue is that the fact that Anet coded this skill to give might to phantasms means that whoever made this change (presumably a balance dev) simply does not understand basic mechanics in their game.

It’s a troubling but extremely unambiguous confirmation of a fact that most people have suspected for a long time: the balance team simply is not qualified to make changes to this game.

Dunno if +1 Will increase this post visibility for Anet to see, but there, take mine. This should reach Mo own eyes.
I got so triggered when saw it. It rly refutes what i thought about balance dev. Its not the first time he does/says things like this… But ppl always said they had data and they know better… Bs…

So, to move the conversation into a productive area, what would you rather see it changed to?

Just giving might to the mesmer enough with maybe a little tweaking to the attack or would you rather it gave something else? Should it be scrapped and remade?

apharma.3741:

So, to move the conversation into a productive area, what would you rather see it changed to?

Just giving might to the mesmer enough with maybe a little tweaking to the attack or would you rather it gave something else? Should it be scrapped and remade?

I normally use offhand sword as a RANGED weapon, so its nothing but a useless new animation for me.

In any situation where I am going to be in melee range, its bc I’m stacked in a group with other players. When you’re stacked in a group with other players, might is usually not a problem.

Then, of course, there is the whole Mesmers have basically zero sustained DPS thing that this doesn’t help in any way. If anything it should grant AoE might to party members since Mesmer isn’t allowed to do anything but support.

apharma.3741:

So, to move the conversation into a productive area, what would you rather see it changed to?

Just giving might to the mesmer enough with maybe a little tweaking to the attack or would you rather it gave something else? Should it be scrapped and remade?

What productive area are you imagining my friend? These patch notes are proof the “balance devs” (seriusly lol) don’t know how their GAME WORKS! Maybe lets start by teaching them the basic mechanics of every class and THEN offer suggestions of changes? At least this way we will have a bit more faith they will actually understand why we give them suggestions.

Darkstorn.5423:

apharma.3741:

So, to move the conversation into a productive area, what would you rather see it changed to?

Just giving might to the mesmer enough with maybe a little tweaking to the attack or would you rather it gave something else? Should it be scrapped and remade?

What productive area are you imagining my friend? These patch notes are proof the “balance devs” (seriusly lol) don’t know how their GAME WORKS! Maybe lets start by teaching them the basic mechanics of every class and THEN offer suggestions of changes? At least this way we will have a bit more faith they will actually understand why we give them suggestions.

Well kitten talking the devs (who are likely new given the number of people that have left) isn’t going to accomplish anything. Highlighting an issue and making suggestions as to what you would like to see changed helps and they do read these forums every now and then for feedback. Especially after balance patches.

Direct copy and paste “Phantasmal Swordsman: This skill now performs a sword strike in front of the player when summoning the phantasm. If the sword strike hits you and all Swordsmen currently summoned, (<comma=Pause) gain 8 might for 10 seconds.”

I honestly still think you’re reading it wrong, unless you’ve tested to show yourself and all swordsman gain might (although adding the might to swordsman might be a way to show that might was applied during the instance for better readability/usability idk)

Make Phantasmal Swordsman a melee attack skill WITH a cast time of 1 sec

Very practical usage (sarcasm), is there any other melee attack with a cast time of 1 sec?

I have to admit with the change you do a really weird animation and a long channeled melee attack for something that is very low damage.

I can confirm that you do gain 8 might and so do all swordsman you have out, why they gain 8 might is beyond me but there you go. If it was AoE might to players this would be a much better PvE attack however it’s low damage and incredibly long cast make it worthless in any form of PvP or WvW as a melee attack. That’s without mentioning that it’s counter intuitive to have an attack that can be cast at 1200 range but have a component that is melee range.

Swords are meant to be fairly quick weapons but this makes it feel as clunky as sword felt before the change to riposte.

Haleydawn.3764:

Direct copy and paste “Phantasmal Swordsman: This skill now performs a sword strike in front of the player when summoning the phantasm. If the sword strike hits you and all Swordsmen currently summoned, (<comma=Pause) gain 8 might for 10 seconds.”

I honestly still think you’re reading it wrong, unless you’ve tested to show yourself and all swordsman gain might (although adding the might to swordsman might be a way to show that might was applied during the instance for better readability/usability idk)

Idk why people are talking about that comma, it’s just comma gore from our esteemed dev team. It doesn’t change the meaning, it’s just poor english…

Guys, don’t u get it? The might on phantasms is very important from a balance point of view: It gives more opportunities to steal that boon^^ (can u steal boons from phantasms?).
Also: eKwaLity

You lot don’t get it… Dev are so engrossed by the next elite spec that they forgot that without the elite spec fantasm are not effected by might. However, with the elite spec, they become mere minion with their own stats and 8 might stacks is a godly buff for them.

You are not seeing the whole picture, that’s why you don’t understand such huge buff.

NB.: Writing those lines without laughing and crying at the same time was a challenge for me… Yet the fact is that it could be the logical answer behind this change. I can already imagine it : Fantasms are now independant minions that attack the same target than you and copy you when you use their active skill. Fantasm skills are now divided into 2 skills : one summon and the second let you and the minion use the active skill. You can now only have 1 weapon fantasm active and 3 clones. Shatters only destroy clone and not your fantasm.

Fay.2357:

Haleydawn.3764:

Direct copy and paste “Phantasmal Swordsman: This skill now performs a sword strike in front of the player when summoning the phantasm. If the sword strike hits you and all Swordsmen currently summoned, (<comma=Pause) gain 8 might for 10 seconds.”

I honestly still think you’re reading it wrong, unless you’ve tested to show yourself and all swordsman gain might (although adding the might to swordsman might be a way to show that might was applied during the instance for better readability/usability idk)

Idk why people are talking about that comma, it’s just comma gore from our esteemed dev team. It doesn’t change the meaning, it’s just poor english…

It’s like politics no matter what happens some people can never bring themselves to admit Anet made a mistake. So they latch on to the comma even though night is being placed directly on the phantasms. He is even defending useless might on the phantasms already which can of course be stolen and used by other classes. Others are going the new elite route but we know nothing official of the elite and these people are just setting themselves up.

There is no other explanation other that no one plays Mesmer and it gets even worse when you consider Mesmer is the unique class for this game and thatypically means it would get more attention.

It’s funny. After several years, we pretty much always have to give analysis with a sarcasm flavor.

It’s totally possible that giving the might stacks to the phantasm is just a mistake.

It’s also possible that this is a change that will have an actual real benefit for people playing the Mirage spec after the expansion is released. The F keys have to do something if they don’t shatter. One possibility is that an F key (or maybe even a grandmaster trait) lets boons (or at least might) actually affect phantasm damage (and maybe even grants some might to the phantasm when you use it). Another possibility is that one of the F keys does a copy of boons between phantasms and mesmer.

If they were giving might to the phantasm for any of these expansion-related reasons, it’s unclear what Anet would say at this point to explain it.

There does seem to be a bit of a trend toward rewarding casting phantasms in close range (iMage was already like this), and I do find I take more risks in trying to finish my cast near my opponent to get the benefit. So this change seems to match that concept.

Fay.2357:

Haleydawn.3764:

Direct copy and paste “Phantasmal Swordsman: This skill now performs a sword strike in front of the player when summoning the phantasm. If the sword strike hits you and all Swordsmen currently summoned, (<comma=Pause) gain 8 might for 10 seconds.”

I honestly still think you’re reading it wrong, unless you’ve tested to show yourself and all swordsman gain might (although adding the might to swordsman might be a way to show that might was applied during the instance for better readability/usability idk)

Idk why people are talking about that comma, it’s just comma gore from our esteemed dev team. It doesn’t change the meaning, it’s just poor english…

I focused on it initially because it could changed the meaning of the sentence, and I was unable to login myself to test what actually happened. Now that its confirmed though there is no more reason to focus on commas.

This is a clear sign balance team isn’t fully aware of all the mechanic tips and hints, such phantasms and boon interaction, of this game, which is a shame.

Anyway, none of these new attacks on phantasm skills are truly worth. Either their effects are a joke (3 stacks of vul on iBerkserker, AA on iWarlock and iMariner or slowmotion crippling projectile in iDuelist), or their mechanics are lacklusting (joke of range on iSwordman, small range on iMage).
So far, only 2 are well designed, immobility on iWarden and evade on iMariner (spear). Too bad the best designed are on useless offhand weapons.

Anet should stop doing this nonsense guessing design and should start to think in a cleverer and more meaningful way. Adding AA on phantasm activations is as lazy as you can get, and will they learn mesmer is not a profession to tank damage at melee range…

Related to off hand sword, with small changes it can become a true alternative to shield, WHICH WILL BE A MUST FOR THE NEW ELITE SPEC.
All you need to do is made it evade 1.5s and eliminate the block interaction, so mesmers have the choice to evade damage or interrupt with Counter attack. Also, change the might granted with iSwordsman to become an AoE effect on you for 5 allies.

Ansau.7326:

Also, change the might granted with iSwordsman to become an AoE effect on you for 5 allies.

That would have been the sane decision, but mesmer is stuck with gimmicky things like this : do something to get something.

I still don’t even understand why they are promoting a phantasm playstyle now, which got killed by them since HoT. ‘’The mesmer has to shatter’’ they were saying. Now it get boons that doesn’t work to buff iSword you have out ?

Let’s see what annoying things the mesmer has to do in order to get buff :

- Fencer’s Finesse, where you need to keep hitting to get the 6 sec of 15 ferocity that stacks to 150 ferocity. Meanwhile Axe warrior get a constant 300 ferocity with either Axes.

- Chaotic Dampening, use Chaos Armor to get reduction ! Can’t even be stacked. Get nerfed since June 2015.

- Harmonious Mantras, spam mantra to get buff.

You get the idea… Why can’t they just simplify those things ?

eldenbri.1059:

It’s funny. After several years, we pretty much always have to give analysis with a sarcasm flavor.

It’s totally possible that giving the might stacks to the phantasm is just a mistake.

It’s also possible that this is a change that will have an actual real benefit for people playing the Mirage spec after the expansion is released. The F keys have to do something if they don’t shatter. One possibility is that an F key (or maybe even a grandmaster trait) lets boons (or at least might) actually affect phantasm damage (and maybe even grants some might to the phantasm when you use it). Another possibility is that one of the F keys does a copy of boons between phantasms and mesmer.

If they were giving might to the phantasm for any of these expansion-related reasons, it’s unclear what Anet would say at this point to explain it.

There does seem to be a bit of a trend toward rewarding casting phantasms in close range (iMage was already like this), and I do find I take more risks in trying to finish my cast near my opponent to get the benefit. So this change seems to match that concept.

Yeah part of me does think we don’t have the whole picture so these changes could either simply be a mistake or they are being made taking the new elite spec into account.

Either way we won’t find out until the expansion.

Ya, my guess is the next elite will allow your phantasms to benefit from boons.
There is also the slight possibility of a stealth skill or trait and they are just preparing for it so that you can’t cast phantasms in stealth.

Very sad yet unsurprising. Don’t worry though, it should be fixed to its intended use by 2020.

While I understand offhand sword is a “dueling” spec, I still think it’s a horrible buff. Dat 130 range tho.

also, runes of the SCHOLAR do not work on phantasms, a core damage source of the SCHOLAR profession, Mesmer

Maybe the dev is trying to set things up for the next elite/util skill set where you can steal boons from your phantasms :P

Isn’t the reason PvP? So you can’t tell it’s a clone just because it doesn’t have might stacks?

Mochizuki.7385:

Isn’t the reason PvP? So you can’t tell it’s a clone just because it doesn’t have might stacks?

No, that’s not the reason. The skill puts might on phantasms, not clones.

Mochizuki.7385:

Isn’t the reason PvP? So you can’t tell it’s a clone just because it doesn’t have might stacks?

There are other ways to tell clones apart from the mesmer (and like Fay said, this puts might on phantasms instead of clones. And they don’t look like the mesmer). Clones will always use the same auto attack, won’t dodge, won’t use kiting, won’t really do anything except stand there and attack. They’ll only move if you go out of range. Mesmer will actually be playing the game though.