Guild Wars 2

Fay.2357:

StickerHappy.8052:

Fay.2357:

Situations.2416:

Some are players who only visit the forums and theorycraft all day and duel and roam WvW and occasionally play PvP at a low-mid tier level and are considered advice-givers so their opinion is considered heavily (Fay) but in truth they’ve never been at a top tier level of PvP gameplay or on a top tier team ever like other mesmers who also coincidentally never visit the forums

Aside from being fairly inaccurate in your assessment, it amuses me that you make this argument and then expect people to ignore that advice when it comes to the proclamations you’ve been making yourself. Last time I checked, you’re as unremarkable a player as the rest of us forum heroes, so why should anyone listen to what you, some random person entering the forum to give a biased perception of Mesmer, has to say over what veteran and consistently accurate members of the community have to say?

Situations.2416:

Who do you balance for in this game? do you balance for the noob / average gamer or do you balance for the top tier player?

The proper answer to this question is you balance for the average gamer, otherwise you lose the average gamer, and subsequently your game.

Some games, the balance for the average gamer fits the balance for esports (see LoL). Some games it could, or maybe might with a lot of work, but currently doesn’t (see GW2). The Anet balancing team cant decide which they want to do, and so we end up with a schizophrenic mix of balance decisions intended to try and foster esports alongside balance decisions designed to make the game easier and more approachable for average players.

Just Curious, how can you say that he is an unremarkable player too like the rest of us?

Because if he wasn’t, he would have been using that experience and background as a bludgeon in every post, instead of constantly making vague references to what other people said or did.

Facts hurt, I know as does the history of gw2 meta that includes mesmer or else you would have simply tried to correct my assessment of how mesmer stood in the past metas but you can’t because it’s true , and did actually happen so you can’t really say anything except retort to me being a nobody / average player so why should you take what I say seriously. That’s called grasping for straws and being desperate in most arguments.

I only mentioned what other people said because he had to mention some reference to pre-patch shatter mesmer said by phantaram so I responded with references of some of the current top tier players on how they think of mesmer now. Shrug

Anyway, this argument is really going no where now so I’m done :P

Situations.2416:

Fay.2357:

StickerHappy.8052:

Fay.2357:

Situations.2416:

Some are players who only visit the forums and theorycraft all day and duel and roam WvW and occasionally play PvP at a low-mid tier level and are considered advice-givers so their opinion is considered heavily (Fay) but in truth they’ve never been at a top tier level of PvP gameplay or on a top tier team ever like other mesmers who also coincidentally never visit the forums

Aside from being fairly inaccurate in your assessment, it amuses me that you make this argument and then expect people to ignore that advice when it comes to the proclamations you’ve been making yourself. Last time I checked, you’re as unremarkable a player as the rest of us forum heroes, so why should anyone listen to what you, some random person entering the forum to give a biased perception of Mesmer, has to say over what veteran and consistently accurate members of the community have to say?

Situations.2416:

Who do you balance for in this game? do you balance for the noob / average gamer or do you balance for the top tier player?

The proper answer to this question is you balance for the average gamer, otherwise you lose the average gamer, and subsequently your game.

Some games, the balance for the average gamer fits the balance for esports (see LoL). Some games it could, or maybe might with a lot of work, but currently doesn’t (see GW2). The Anet balancing team cant decide which they want to do, and so we end up with a schizophrenic mix of balance decisions intended to try and foster esports alongside balance decisions designed to make the game easier and more approachable for average players.

Just Curious, how can you say that he is an unremarkable player too like the rest of us?

Because if he wasn’t, he would have been using that experience and background as a bludgeon in every post, instead of constantly making vague references to what other people said or did.

Facts hurt, I know as does the history of gw2 meta that includes mesmer or else you would have simply tried to correct my assessment of how mesmer stood in the past metas but you can’t because it’s true , and did actually happen so you can’t really say anything except retort to me being a nobody / average player so why should you take what I say seriously. That’s called grasping for straws and being desperate in most arguments.

I only mentioned what other people said because he had to mention some reference to pre-patch shatter mesmer said by phantaram so I responded with references of some of the current top tier players on how they think of mesmer now. Shrug

Anyway, this argument is really going no where now so I’m done :P

It’s adorable that you’re trying to portray me as going for ad hominem attacks because I have no other options, when what actually happened is that you attempted to disparage the content of my arguments by dismissing them as the ramblings of an inexperienced player.

I simply like to make sure you turn your chosen lens on yourself as well.

Edit: Just for fun, your quote containing the original attempt at ad hominem. It wasn’t the most elegant attempt, but I don’t expect too much from this sort of thing.

Situations.2416:

Some are players who only visit the forums and theorycraft all day and duel and roam WvW and occasionally play PvP at a low-mid tier level and are considered advice-givers so their opinion is considered heavily (Fay) but in truth they’ve never been at a top tier level of PvP gameplay or on a top tier team ever like other mesmers who also coincidentally never visit the forums

Fay.2357:

I’m going to guess that you’ve never played ele, warrior, thief, engineer, or guardian competitively.

See, how the Mesmer feels now is how all of those classes have felt for years. Mesmer has for a very long time been the epitome of high risk, high effort, and low reward. Sure it feels good when you manage to squeeze out victories from that disadvantage, but lamenting a set of changes that brings Mesmer in line with the risk/reward of all the other classes is basically Stockholm syndrome for gamers.

Keep playing, I’m sure you’ll manage to get past your misgivings of playing a viable class. You could always go play p/p thief or something if you really want the rush of playing an unviable build…

+1

Considering this reply to the OP is all that is necessary, I’m not going to perusethrough the rest of this thread.

Situations.2416:

Exciton.8942:

There was a quote from Phantaram post on forum before patch. I agree with his view point.

Phantaram.4816:
Here is my 2 cents on Mesmers.
Currently on a personal power level Mesmers are a quite bit weaker than the rest of the meta. What mesmers bring to the table though is portal which is extremely strong.
If the personal power level of mesmer is to rise, which it seems to be judging by the trait changes, then Mesmer will become mandatory because portal is just that strong.

And you can guess what he said about mesmers post-patch. He’s said they’re much stronger than they should be and are pretty OP now and should be shaved down accordingly. Same with Magic Toker , same with Backpack, same with most of the Abjured players. This spans not even just in NA but into Europe as well where most of the top tier players are expressing how mesmer is horribly overpowered now – Rom , Helseth , Texbi , Denshee , etc. They’ve all stated this on their stream.

Alot of the people in this thread though have very mixed feelings of mesmer, most of them are players who have never ever been at the top tier level of gameplay and truly aren’t great players and probably will never be. Some are players who only visit the forums and theorycraft all day and duel and roam WvW and occasionally play PvP at a low-mid tier level and are considered advice-givers so their opinion is considered heavily (Fay) but in truth they’ve never been at a top tier level of PvP gameplay or on a top tier team ever like other mesmers who also coincidentally never visit the forums – which ALSO IS WHAT THIS GAME IS BALANCED AROUND, not PvE , not WvW , but PvP. There is where 90% of your balancing comes from.

The ultimate questions are this:

Who do you balance for in this game? do you balance for the noob / average gamer or do you balance for the top tier player?

If you’re balancing for the noob, mesmer isn’t where it should be or atleast where it should be because of course, it completely caters to a noob playstyle now as opposed to pre-patch and if you’re balancing for top tier , then mesmer is horribly overpowered (as said by most top tier players). Which one do you listen to? If this game truly wants to go esports, as they’re very clearly trying to go , they should follow suit and balance for top tier like Dota , etc. – otherwise, noob players will continually ruin this game even more than it already is in the top tier / esports pvp aspect of it.

First, I have never said mesmer does not need some shaving right now. What my argument is towards someone who claims mesmer is already good enough prepatch and can go back to that state.

Second, don’t use anecdotal information to support your argument. I can trust the part that Phantaram says mesmer does a bit too much. But from Helseth, Texbi, Denshee etc? No! If you say so, please link the evidence. TBH, I can hardly believe you follow that many streamers. I myself do follow helseth stream a lot. The only thing I heard from him is that he thinks mesmer is fine. Sure he can be biased because he is mesmer main. But so is phantaram, ele is picked way more than mesmer in ESL teams, but did he complain about ele being too strong?

Third, surely the balance standard should be set at the highest level. However, in ESL tournaments, I have seen teams stacking ele, stacking warrior, stacking guardian. I have yet seen a team stacking mesmers. Also there is no correlation between whether the team has mesmers to whether the team wins. I saw the video Backpack plays mesmer for Abjured. But he sucked so bad in that video. It is more about the great two elementalists who beautifully handled a 2v4 that helped the team to an easy win. So in addition to listening to some top players(although I don’t trust your words on saying they all believe mesmer is horribly OP, again as I stated, plz link your evidence), use your eyes to watch the actual tournament they play in!

Again, I totally agree balance changes should be made to traits like confounding suggestion and PU. But the current problem is that whiners are over-exaggerating problems by at least 10 times. And guess what, most the whiners are low-tier players who probably don’t even have more than 10 games of mesmer experience. According to you their voice carries no weight.

Actually Exiton, in the last esl mime and happy kid both ran zerker amulet mantra memser om the same team and they came closer to taking a map off of the abjured than any other team so far, so double mesmer can possibly work.

Who liked fighting mesmers before? I don’t like swinging at a target that explodes in purple sparkles. I have never enjoyed fighting against a mes pre or post patch, and you know what that’s fine. The class plays great, it has infuriating skills, interrupts, dazes, that all add up to a class that feels like it should. That’s my opinion at least from the opposite side of the fence.

DresdenAllblack.1249:

Who liked fighting mesmers before? I don’t like swinging at a target that explodes in purple sparkles. I have never enjoyed fighting against a mes pre or post patch, and you know what that’s fine. The class plays great, it has infuriating skills, interrupts, dazes, that all add up to a class that feels like it should. That’s my opinion at least from the opposite side of the fence.

You can now kill the clones with no fear of conditions, that has to be an improvement for you right?

Helseth’s sentence (if are bothered with his opinion): http://www.twitch.tv/thelordhelseth/v/7834714 1:44:11 – ~1:50:xx
Common thought is l2p, not complain. Some fixes could be done (CS on interrupt?), but ppl would still complain cause not used to consider mesmer as strong class

Mak.2657:

Helseth’s sentence (if are bothered with his opinion): http://www.twitch.tv/thelordhelseth/v/7834714 1:44:11 – ~1:50:xx
Common thought is l2p, not complain. Some fixes could be done (CS on interrupt?), but ppl would still complain cause not used to consider mesmer as strong class

My god this guy is full of himself… yisssh…

But back on topic, I completely disagree ppl complain because mesmer supposedly wasn’t a strong class before. Feeling powerless when fighting one is a much more accurate pov.

I’ve lost countless fights vs mesmers that I was left asking myself what did I do wrong? what should I have done instead? The only answer in many case was ‘you tried to fight instead of running’. What makes it worse is the fact you are feeling like that vs obviously sub par mesmers while you are on a build you completely own for thousands of hours. Yes, ppl exaggerate but there are very valid complaint you can’t reasonably brush under the ‘l2p’ carpet.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Mak.2657:

Helseth’s sentence (if are bothered with his opinion): http://www.twitch.tv/thelordhelseth/v/7834714 1:44:11 – ~1:50:xx
Common thought is l2p, not complain. Some fixes could be done (CS on interrupt?), but ppl would still complain cause not used to consider mesmer as strong class

My god this guy is full of himself… yisssh…

But back on topic, I completely disagree ppl complain because mesmer supposedly wasn’t a strong class before. Feeling powerless when fighting one is a much more accurate pov.

I’ve lost countless fights vs mesmers that I was left asking myself what did I do wrong? what should I have done instead? The only answer in many case was ‘you tried to fight instead of running’. What makes it worse is the fact you are feeling like that vs obviously sub par mesmers while you are on a build you completely own for thousands of hours. Yes, ppl exaggerate but there are very valid complaint you can’t reasonably brush under the ‘l2p’ carpet.

That kind of attitude won’t get anyone anywhere.

What build were you running? Don’t be shy, I may loathe condition thief but if you’re running it we can offer advise on when to attack etc.

Any specifics on the fight? Was it MoD stun repeatedly used? What weapons were they using? Were they power or condition?

A lot of veteran mesmers would be happy to point out the openings for attack and a lot of people here play other classes too so can perhaps offer advise like taking a certain utility, perhaps a slight change in signals or runes. Maybe it might be more simple as use this at this point and you’ll wreck them.

apharma.3741:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Mak.2657:

Helseth’s sentence (if are bothered with his opinion): http://www.twitch.tv/thelordhelseth/v/7834714 1:44:11 – ~1:50:xx
Common thought is l2p, not complain. Some fixes could be done (CS on interrupt?), but ppl would still complain cause not used to consider mesmer as strong class

My god this guy is full of himself… yisssh…

But back on topic, I completely disagree ppl complain because mesmer supposedly wasn’t a strong class before. Feeling powerless when fighting one is a much more accurate pov.

I’ve lost countless fights vs mesmers that I was left asking myself what did I do wrong? what should I have done instead? The only answer in many case was ‘you tried to fight instead of running’. What makes it worse is the fact you are feeling like that vs obviously sub par mesmers while you are on a build you completely own for thousands of hours. Yes, ppl exaggerate but there are very valid complaint you can’t reasonably brush under the ‘l2p’ carpet.

That kind of attitude won’t get anyone anywhere.

What build were you running? Don’t be shy, I may loathe condition thief but if you’re running it we can offer advise on when to attack etc.

Any specifics on the fight? Was it MoD stun repeatedly used? What weapons were they using? Were they power or condition?

A lot of veteran mesmers would be happy to point out the openings for attack and a lot of people here play other classes too so can perhaps offer advise like taking a certain utility, perhaps a slight change in signals or runes. Maybe it might be more simple as use this at this point and you’ll wreck them.

I mostly play zerk staff ele but I also go scepter/focus or d/d if I have to. So far, no matter the weapons, mesmers have a very easy time. I’m proud when I kill any mesmer at all or just have a very long exchange before I either die or I need to bail.

I had many fights while on other prof like war, or ranger but my fingers memory are way better on ele so me loosing there isn’t as significant of a problem.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

I mostly play zerk staff ele but I also go scepter/focus or d/d if I have to. So far, no matter the weapons, mesmers have a very easy time. I’m proud when I kill any mesmer at all or just have a very long exchange before I either die or I need to bail.

Yep, you are 1 of easiest matchups for shatter mesmer (zerker staff). Prepatch and post.
Personally I even don’t notice CS mesmers lands on me that ‘5-6 stuns chain’. Mb 1 or 2. Not more usually cause they are dead. Probably most of them are FOTM jumpers.

Well, I main ele and have a ridiculous amount on staff with zerk. If PvP I would suggest rolling something with a bit more vit and toughness but if you prefer zerk stick with marauder. Mistform, lightening flash and arcane shield (also final shielding trait)are great and all can be used when stunned, with 2 being a stun break.

Mist form the first burst, make sure you use your AoE to cleave out clones. When they fail the shatter you should have 2-3s before the daze mantra is ready again so meteor is a good thing to lay down then, cancel just before the full channel though. Use of chill will be very effective on them too and keeping a good rotation going so you get high protection uptime.

If you’re talking WvW and you’re roaming with staff, sorry but that’s just a bad plan without others but with a few other people you should have a better time. If zerg watch the fringes of the fight, keep an eye on their movements and make sure you’re not too out of position and keep your back to your zerg for a quick burning retreat to them. It doesn’t matter if you go down with your Zerg, any decent commander will Rez an ele as they know how valuable they are especially if you’re calling out water fields on TS.

Got any more specifics about your fights?

The only bad thing about playing a mesmer now is having to have a thicker skin than usual to protect from all the hate (both unjustified and justified) that will be sent your way from other players.

d/d zerker too? cele d/d ele is fine (from my exp)

apharma.3741:

Well, I main ele and have a ridiculous amount on staff with zerk. If PvP I would suggest rolling something with a bit more vit and toughness but if you prefer zerk stick with marauder. Mistform, lightening flash and arcane shield (also final shielding trait)are great and all can be used when stunned, with 2 being a stun break.

Mist form the first burst, make sure you use your AoE to cleave out clones. When they fail the shatter you should have 2-3s before the daze mantra is ready again so meteor is a good thing to lay down then, cancel just before the full channel though. Use of chill will be very effective on them too and keeping a good rotation going so you get high protection uptime.

If you’re talking WvW and you’re roaming with staff, sorry but that’s just a bad plan without others but with a few other people you should have a better time. If zerg watch the fringes of the fight, keep an eye on their movements and make sure you’re not too out of position and keep your back to your zerg for a quick burning retreat to them. It doesn’t matter if you go down with your Zerg, any decent commander will Rez an ele as they know how valuable they are especially if you’re calling out water fields on TS.

Got any more specifics about your fights?

Maybe you didn’t read it when I first said it but I’ve been playing the zerk staff for thousands of hours. Reminding me of what Mistform and Arcane shield can do might be well intended but in the end it’s condescending and suggesting you aren’t serious at all.

Of course I mistform the first burst and know all about what can maximize my results! The problem is, you can’t possibly keep up with the mesmer no matter if he is shatter, PU or mantra or a mix of that. You can delay the inevitable but unless the mesmer make several bad mistakes and you make none you don’t have a prayer no matter if it’s wvw or pvp (and yes I went from zerk to marauder eventually because kitten). If you really have that much experience in the zerk staff you should know these things…

Personally, I like to have an underdog fight. I like that challenge. Heck, why do you think someone would stick with zerk staff in duel, roaming and pvp? My problem isn’t hitting the ground. I died more than 13k times on that build (/deaths). However, when the fights are THAT unfair and you genuinely feel it’s hopeless even before it’s starts you know something is bad.

Mak.2657:

d/d zerker too? cele d/d ele is fine (from my exp)

yes, I don’t play celestial.

Ok then let me be blunt, playing staff zerker ele against a burst build like that is just silly. You should lose, the odds are stacked against you so stop complaining. You should lose to most thieves, power necros should farm you and even medi guards should stomp you with ease. In fact most zerker builds have it heavily weighted in their favour.

Play a more realistic burst build with ele like D/F or S/F fresh air and you stand a better chance at bursting people down. The only person you have to blame is yourself for the situation you’re in, you’re using the wrong tools for the wrong job.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

However, when the fights are THAT unfair and you genuinely feel it’s hopeless even before it’s starts you know something is bad.

I feel the same when I meet condi transfer necro on my current hybrid mesmer . But it is my choice to play that build.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

apharma.3741:

Well, I main ele and have a ridiculous amount on staff with zerk. If PvP I would suggest rolling something with a bit more vit and toughness but if you prefer zerk stick with marauder. Mistform, lightening flash and arcane shield (also final shielding trait)are great and all can be used when stunned, with 2 being a stun break.

Mist form the first burst, make sure you use your AoE to cleave out clones. When they fail the shatter you should have 2-3s before the daze mantra is ready again so meteor is a good thing to lay down then, cancel just before the full channel though. Use of chill will be very effective on them too and keeping a good rotation going so you get high protection uptime.

If you’re talking WvW and you’re roaming with staff, sorry but that’s just a bad plan without others but with a few other people you should have a better time. If zerg watch the fringes of the fight, keep an eye on their movements and make sure you’re not too out of position and keep your back to your zerg for a quick burning retreat to them. It doesn’t matter if you go down with your Zerg, any decent commander will Rez an ele as they know how valuable they are especially if you’re calling out water fields on TS.

Got any more specifics about your fights?

Maybe you didn’t read it when I first said it but I’ve been playing the zerk staff for thousands of hours. Reminding me of what Mistform and Arcane shield can do might be well intended but in the end it’s condescending and suggesting you aren’t serious at all.

Of course I mistform the first burst and know all about what can maximize my results! The problem is, you can’t possibly keep up with the mesmer no matter if he is shatter, PU or mantra or a mix of that. You can delay the inevitable but unless the mesmer make several bad mistakes and you make none you don’t have a prayer no matter if it’s wvw or pvp (and yes I went from zerk to marauder eventually because kitten). If you really have that much experience in the zerk staff you should know these things…

Personally, I like to have an underdog fight. I like that challenge. Heck, why do you think someone would stick with zerk staff in duel, roaming and pvp? My problem isn’t hitting the ground. I died more than 13k times on that build (/deaths). However, when the fights are THAT unfair and you genuinely feel it’s hopeless even before it’s starts you know something is bad.

Quite honestly, if you’re complaining about mesmers as a zerker staff ele, the only advice you should ever receive is ‘play something else’.

Zerker staff ele is simply not a good dueling build. It has low mobility, poor burst, and poor control because almost everything it does is slow and obviously avoidable by just walking out of the way. There are so many things that just hardcounter it with no possibility of recovery. Any good thief, any good Mesmer, any celery elery, warriors, guardians, etc.

Your problems with mesmers have nothing to do with mesmers, and everything to do with trying to duel on a zerker staff ele. That unfairness and knowledge that the upcoming fight is hopeless? Yeah, you should be feeling that against almost every competent dueling build across any class.

For tips on D/F fresh air, phantaram has some nice streams of him playing D/F marauder. Check that out, perhaps look at the way he rotates around the map. I know he’s using the super speed when attuning to air to get more mobility and will LoS till his burst is ready.

apharma.3741:

Ok then let me be blunt, playing staff zerker ele against a burst build like that is just silly. You should lose, the odds are stacked against you so stop complaining. You should lose to most thieves, power necros should farm you and even medi guards should stomp you with ease. In fact most zerker builds have it heavily weighted in their favour.

Play a more realistic burst build with ele like D/F or S/F fresh air and you stand a better chance at bursting people down. The only person you have to blame is yourself for the situation you’re in, you’re using the wrong tools for the wrong job.

I do assume the unfairness of my choice as long as some hope remains. Yes, I loose most of my fight vs burst builds no matter the profession and I’m okay with most of it. However, there are levels of unfair that are just kitten wrong is what I’m saying.

Even a burst thief, how I hate them as a zerk staff you have no idea, still provides slivers of hope and have to accept some risks when they attacks me while having a higher skill requirement to make me feel that hopeless. The mesmer as he is OTOH make me feel the same thing even when it is played by relatively new players.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

apharma.3741:

Ok then let me be blunt, playing staff zerker ele against a burst build like that is just silly. You should lose, the odds are stacked against you so stop complaining. You should lose to most thieves, power necros should farm you and even medi guards should stomp you with ease. In fact most zerker builds have it heavily weighted in their favour.

Play a more realistic burst build with ele like D/F or S/F fresh air and you stand a better chance at bursting people down. The only person you have to blame is yourself for the situation you’re in, you’re using the wrong tools for the wrong job.

I do assume the unfairness of my choice as long as some hope remains. Yes, I loose most of my fight vs burst builds no matter the profession and I’m okay with most of it. However, there are levels of unfair that are just kitten wrong is what I’m saying.

Even a burst thief, how I hate them as a zerk staff you have no idea, still provides slivers of hope and have to accept some risks when they attacks me while having a higher skill requirement to make me feel that hopeless. The mesmer as he is OTOH make me feel the same thing even when it is played by relatively new players.

Literally all a thief has to do to kill you is walk at you and autoattack. Take d/p, press f1, walk at you and autoattack. When you run away, press 3, walk at you and autoattack. Once you hit 50% hp, replace walk at you and autoattack with pressing 2 instead.

Fighting anyone of even the most basic competence on any dueling build should get you stomped into the ground as a staff ele. Any complaints you make from that perspective are both amusing and meaningless.

The only hope you should have as zerk staff ele against a thief, mesmer or power necro is that they have brain damage or are afk. They shouldn’t just beat you, they should stomp you into the ground especially when your defensive cool downs are up. They also have every way to disrupt your highly telegraphed, long activation skills or at least anything that poses a threat to them or is good for you.

Staff ele can kite through his aoe of cource (Lava Font, etc) and kill unexp/thirsty thief but odd still in thief favor. Vs mesmer even less chanse. But that was before patch too. Patch brings nothing new in this matchup imho.

Mak.2657:

Staff ele can kite through his aoe of cource (Lava Font, etc) and kill unexp/thirsty thief but odd still in thief favor. Vs mesmer even less chanse. But that was before patch too. Patch brings nothing new in this matchup imho.

The numbers of interrupts and the survive-ability of the mesmer has gone up significantly. Which mean what was hard before is now even harder still. And, of course, the damage boost all across the board makes this even more impossible.

I think what irks me a lot is you can play zerk anything but ele. Sure, you will be underdog as a zerk something else too, but it’s not hopeless. Zerk necro, thief or mesmer? No problem at all! Zerk ele? Are you crazy? What were you thinking bro!?

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

The numbers of interrupts and the survive-ability of the mesmer has gone up significantly. Which mean what was hard before is now even harder still. And, of course, the damage boost all across the board makes this even more impossible.

I think what irks me a lot is you can play zerk anything but ele. Sure, you will be underdog as a zerk something else too, but it’s not hopeless. Zerk necro, thief or mesmer? No problem at all! Zerk ele? Are you crazy? What were you thinking bro!?

Or use dagger and focus….

You get a low cool down evade on burning speed, lots of chill, 2 interrupts of your own, cripple, immob, reflect, projectile block, invuln which can be used when stunned, weakness, a great auto on lightening whip and about an 18s cool down on shocking aura if training aeromancers training.

If you intentionally want to use your screwdriver to hammer nails then go for it but don’t complain when they’re all wonky or it takes longer.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Mak.2657:

Staff ele can kite through his aoe of cource (Lava Font, etc) and kill unexp/thirsty thief but odd still in thief favor. Vs mesmer even less chanse. But that was before patch too. Patch brings nothing new in this matchup imho.

The numbers of interrupts and the survive-ability of the mesmer has gone up significantly. Which mean what was hard before is now even harder still. And, of course, the damage boost all across the board makes this even more impossible.

I think what irks me a lot is you can play zerk anything but ele. Sure, you will be underdog as a zerk something else too, but it’s not hopeless. Zerk necro, thief or mesmer? No problem at all! Zerk ele? Are you crazy? What were you thinking bro!?

Your complaints are the equivalent of an old-style glamour Mesmer complaining that they’re not doing well in PvE or duels. Sometimes, builds simply aren’t capable of performing well in some aspects of the game. If you want to continue trying to, as Apharma put it, hammer nails with a screwdriver, then by all means continue. Just complain about how hard it is somewhere else.

Fay.2357:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Mak.2657:

Staff ele can kite through his aoe of cource (Lava Font, etc) and kill unexp/thirsty thief but odd still in thief favor. Vs mesmer even less chanse. But that was before patch too. Patch brings nothing new in this matchup imho.

The numbers of interrupts and the survive-ability of the mesmer has gone up significantly. Which mean what was hard before is now even harder still. And, of course, the damage boost all across the board makes this even more impossible.

I think what irks me a lot is you can play zerk anything but ele. Sure, you will be underdog as a zerk something else too, but it’s not hopeless. Zerk necro, thief or mesmer? No problem at all! Zerk ele? Are you crazy? What were you thinking bro!?

Your complaints are the equivalent of an old-style glamour Mesmer complaining that they’re not doing well in PvE or duels. Sometimes, builds simply aren’t capable of performing well in some aspects of the game. If you want to continue trying to, as Apharma put it, hammer nails with a screwdriver, then by all means continue. Just complain about how hard it is somewhere else.

No, they are not. The mesmer always had viable zerk options. The ele? Not really. I would never ask for a hammer to do as good of a job as a spoon when comes the time to eat a soup. The problem is, where the kitten is my small spoon on ele? Everyone got a small spoon that does a decent job alone but not ele. Even D/F is only delaying the inevitable in front of these builds.

Also, I’ll send you back your own advise. If you are tired of hearing ppl complain then just go away… I don’t have to go away because you don’t like it and can kitten well say what I want. Specially if I feel it is legitimate. You have no power over me posting but all the power over you staying and reading so…

Whats the point of this post at all? The OP is now just talking about how hopeless glass cannon ele builds are in the current meta.

That may be true, but mesmer/thief are the kings of glass cannon builds right now. Engi and warrior are behind that only because of rampage and the tremendous downcleave they put out, and since they have blocks/invulns/stances to support them. Next is guard, medi guard isn’t very good right now since their relative survivability has been reduced, meanwhile their support builds are just more useful all around for any team.

Next we have well necro. Well necro isn’t very good right now because burst will end you, and deathshroud needs both toughness and vit before it can really help you survive, so cele is used instead. Also people can literally walk out of wells just as fast as they can walk out of your lava fonts. Lich is a poor mans rampage, and the whole build is shut down by careful use of blinds and dodges (D/P teef).

Ranger is next worse in my opinion, but mainly because its usefulness is map dependent. A pew pew ranger will excel on legacy of the foe fire, but will be very hindered on forest, as everything is much more enclosed with more ways to LoS. Overall settelers condi survival or carrion trap ranger just outclasses it in usefulness by far, and even then its limited by only being great in smaller fights.

Now we have zerker ele. Theres staff, fresh air S/F, and D/F. Ele’s base survivability is bad. Staff isn’t viable because its damage is all sustained rather than burst, and it doesn’t do that much damage outside of fire. Yeah the metoer shower will do massive damage in teamfights, but that is literally it. D/F is a little better for more actual burst damage, and some ways to survive, but it lacks mobility. S/F is about the same but with more range. Its biggest problem is that its hard to hit competent players with dragons tooth and phoenix, meaning that the smaller air burst is what you have to rely on. And once again, cele specs outclass it overall since celes have easy ways to heal themselves up to full to make their low health less of an issue.

So the bottom tier dps classes in pve, guard, necro, ele, and ranger, are all limited in one way by a crippling weakness that varies. In general though they lack easy to land burst damage and the survival skills needed to disengage or outplay someone. They also generally have more viable tanky specs that use celestial or an even tankier amulet to be nearly unkillable 1v1 and in teamfights.

So I hope this breakdown makes sense so that everyone understands why some classes work as zerk/marauder, while others don’t. Mainly its based on easy to land burst (or downcleave) and ways to survive, whether it be stealth or invulns or blocks or whatnot.

Ok here is a fresh air zerker stream from phantaram.

Here is him doing the stress test and commenting on D/F fresh air before hand etc.

He runs marauder, it does ok in ranked solo, sure he’s good but you should be able to use it against non top tier players.

nearlight.3064:

Whats the point of this post at all? The OP is now just talking about how hopeless glass cannon ele builds are in the current meta.

IDK if you were referring to me but I’m not the OP if that was the case. Also, the only reason why the topic of the zerk staff ele was brought into the thread was because someone asked me what I was playing. I answered.

Mak.2657:

Helseth’s sentence (if are bothered with his opinion): http://www.twitch.tv/thelordhelseth/v/7834714 1:44:11 – ~1:50:xx
Common thought is l2p, not complain. Some fixes could be done (CS on interrupt?), but ppl would still complain cause not used to consider mesmer as strong class

That’s very well said by Helseth. I also replied countless times. The biggest problem is not that mesmer being too strong, rather players don’t want to adapt a single bit and just want candies being handed over by exaggerating things by ten folds.