Guild Wars 2

The wiki claims that might applied to a mesmer instantly increases illusions power and condition damage. So, if the illusions then gain might would they gain additional power and condition damage? For example, would the illusions have 1500 power and condition damage above the mesmer’s base value if both the mesmer and the illusion had 25 stacks of might?

Illusions do not have basic stats, those values are inherited completely from the Mesmer. Therefore, might on illusions has no effect.

On the other hand, illusions do have secondary stats. This means that while the illusion inherits the Mesmer’s precision, they do not inherit the critical chance. The effect of this is that fury on a Mesmer has no effect on their illusions, but fury on the illusions does increase their critical chance.

I do not think that is the case. I believe I have proof that it does stack twice.

Here is my method. As a condi mesmer, I tried to test this by summoning a single illusion and then autoattacking with a staff at short and long distances against a dps golem. Staff Projectiles randomly grant might and fury when they strike an ally or an illusion. At short distances the staff projectiles bounced off me, but I had 25 stacks of might and fury so they did not alter my or my illusions stats. At long distances, the staff projectiles bounced off the illusion, granting them either Fury or might. I noticed they averaged 3-7 stacks of might depending on RNG. I then took 5 screenshots at each 20% mark for both tests. I then calculated the average damage per bleeding tic for both short and long ranges. If the bleeding damage per tic increases, then the illusions are gaining condition damage from the might.
At short distances: 177.82 damage per tic from average(3547/19, 4695/28,6558/35,4254/23,4385/27)
At long distances: 210.60 damage per tic from average(6702/28, 5180/28,5449/34,6173/24,4857/23).
Therefore, I believe might does affect an illusions condition damage.

I have attached the screenshots to this post as proof of my claims. Especially interesting is the difference between screenshot 46 and 47 since it has the same number of stacks on each, but the amount of damage tic is extremely different. This could be due to a massive difference in the might stacks on the illusion.

Condi Mesmer Screens

If you had dueling traited, then the higher bleed ticks you see are coming from the fact that critical strikes from illusions cause bleeding as per the minor trait sharper images. Fury does affect their crit chance, as I noted.

Edit: I see you’re calculating bleeding per tick. Let me take a closer look.

I can also link gear and build if thats useful. But It should be a difference so all that should just even out.

OK, so what you’re seeing here is basically fuzzing of floater values when non-integer combinations of conditions are applied and fall off. Let me explain how this works.

Say you apply 1 stack of bleeding at time 0 and one stack at time .5 At time 1, the original stack will clearly have ticked for a full second while the other stack has only ticked for half of a second. However, the condition floaters are only displayed once per second. In this case, the floater value will display a total tick of 1.5x the single bleed stack size. Even though the number of stacks is 2, it won’t actually tick for a 2 stack damage. This happens in reverse too. If a stack fell off within the last second, the floater will display a value higher than what would normally be expected from the stack size.

In this test, you’re using a pistol phantasm to apply bleeds. That phantasm unloads 8 shots in about a second. Assuming you’ve got the pistol trait and sharper images, this will apply on average about 8-10 bleeds inside that 1 second key window that can cause condition floater fuzzing. You’ll see those 8 bleeds in the stack size, but they aren’t actually all contributing to the damage properly.

If you want to do this test properly, there’s a rather simpler and more clear way. Put up your duelist and let it attack for a bit. Note the DPS as reported by the golem. Then, use signet of inspiration to share your 25 stacks of might to the duelist. 25 stacks of might, if functional on the illusion, will produce a massive change in DPS. Note the DPS again after a bit, see if it changes.

Edit: make sure you either are using phantasmal fury or don’t have the fury buff on yourself as sharing fury will obviously change the DPS on its own.

I tried that. Due to the changes to the Signet of Inspiration, It only shares a single stack of Might for 30s. That does not produce a noticeable effect.

I tried to get a ps war to join me to have 25 stacks of might on my illusion, but none responded to my map chat.

What I can do is adjust my build so that all my bleeds are integer values to avoid the floating point round off. In addition, I can just do a ton more sets of data to avoid some of the random fluctuations due to crit and proc chances and other random variations. It will have to wait till I am done with work however.

But that 32 additional damage is certainly something that seems to suggest that illusions do benefit twice from might.

DrEckers.2039:

I tried that. Due to the changes to the Signet of Inspiration, It only shares Stack of Might for 30s. That does not produce a noticable effect.

What I can do is adjust my build so that all my bleeds are integer values to avoid the floating point round off. It wil have to wait till I am done with work however.

….kitten, I forgot that.

In any case, you can’t actually avoid the floater fuzzing because it also crops up due to how they’re applied over time. The only way to avoid it is to only apply bleeds with a single hit at a time.

This is pretty hard to test well solo, but with a rev it’s pretty easy. Rev can produce ~18 stacks of might while afk, so hunt down a rev and have them stand next to the duelist for the buffed test.

I’m also unclear on why you’re trying to test this with the condition ticks. If might works, it’ll affect both the power and condition damage, so why don’t you just pull the average unload damage and use that instead? No such thing as floater fuzzing for a power hit.

I could certainly do that also. I was just more interested in the condition damage on my condi mesmer over the power damage. It would be very interesting if the Condition damage was increased (since it is listed as a secondary stat) but the power damage was not. That would match your original statement.

DrEckers.2039:

I could certainly do that also. I was just more interested in the condition damage on my condi mesmer over the power damage. It would be very interesting if the Condition damage was increased (since it is listed as a secondary stat) but the power damage was not. That would match your original statement.

Nah, I used wording that is inconsistent with what the wiki has. For illusions what matters is derived stats. Illusions have their own derived stats and inherit everything else from the Mesmer.

Without Might from Revenant: 2037
With Might from Revenant: 2135

I think the results speak for themselves.

Well, I just did my own testing….

The first number was without a rev, the second number was with a rev providing a constant 10 stacks of might. I have 2923 power, so 10 stacks of might is equivalent to ~10% increase in power. As you can see, there was no change.

I then went ahead and tested with duelists. I got the same (lack of) results.

Edit: My traits are dueling (top top mid), illusions (mid mid top), chrono (top bot bot). None of my traits nor any of your traits should have made an impact on the results.

I’m also wearing full commander’s gear with durability runes. What is your gear? My mainhand sword has a sigil of concentration and my oh sword and pistol both have a sigil of energy.