Guild Wars 2

Where can we expect mesmer to sit DPS wise?

Doing full vuln, full non profession specific buffs,

Running S/Sh and S/S I sat around 9k on the first go.
With GS/Staff was at 6k. (Just did it for the contrast.)

(Disclaimer: I’m far from optimal and haven’t been playing since a month after HoT so don’t tell me I’m crap because I already know, lol. Never had a reason to optimize dps for PvE when I lived in PvP/WvW. :P)

So in mostly zerker gear with a full set of normal raid buffs (25 might, fury, quickness, alacrity, EA, spotter, disc, strength, assassin’s presence, frost spirit, grace of the land), with domination, dueling, and illusions, I’m clocking about 13.7k dps autoattacking in sword with 3 sword phantasms up. I also used 25 vuln on the golem.

I think this 13.7k dps is close to the highest realistic power dps mesmer could do when fully specced into it. You’re providing zero utility to the team, nothing but dps. I believe that condie could go substantially higher, but I unfortunately lack sinister/viper gear to test this out.

Sword/Shield: ~8k DPS
Sword/Sword: ~17k DPS
Staff: ~20k DPS

I used the Chronomancer trait line for each, and assumed maximum boons/effects on me and all possible conditions on the golem.

I would love to see some condition Mesmer numbers here too.

EDIT:
Before I forget; using full Berserker’s and Illusions/Dueling/Chronomancer (except for Sword/Shield where I used Illusions/Inspiration/Chronomancer to better match the build I use for raids).

Like we already knew? o.ô

Sword Shield 10k
Sword Sword 17k
Staff (cheated with max condis :P) 22k
Condi 20k

#raid envoirment

Can someone test other weapons under the same environment, just for comparison. Scepter in particular.

Power scepter and power sword both have around 10k dps. Sword still a tiny bit more, but you can use the scepter now for swap 3 11111 3 swap to outdamage the sword.

(Raid enviormental buffs (real dps), no food)

• Sword only: 7’727
• Scepter only: 6’719
• Both weps: 7’859

So … if you keep swapping on CD you deal more damage with the scepter. This number gets even better if you use your CS on scepter to dublicate scepter #3 and don’t use any aa’s at all.

If the combat forces you to go on range even for a few moments like VG, Gorse (you can double pierce spirits here <3), Sabby (you can hit her and turrets with the pierce <3) and Matt, I’d always use a scepter now.

Xyonon.3987:

If the combat forces you to go on range even for a few moments like VG, Gorse (you can double pierce spirits here <3), Sabby (you can hit her and turrets with the pierce <3) and Matt, I’d always use a scepter now.

Mmh.. as a chrono you should not never be on range on vg or gorse and sword allow you to not having to stop dps to dodge anything, while scepter force you to dodge to avoid blue circle or gorsie stomp.

And being “on range” on vg or gorse isnt exactly an hard goal to achieve.. Outside you have some weird pug tank running whole around, but that’s doesnt make scepter to be an optimal choice.

Sabby is even more sword friendly outside you are assigned to the ranged role.

If i’d have to chose a “scepter friendly” fight, i’d go for mathias.. Boss moving randomly following the further one, green well mechanics, skull mechanics force you to move. Not vg or gorsie.

In general btw i’d like to see some result of dps comparison between condie gear and zerk\sin gear on a raid enviroment (aka 1 duelist\2 avenger for condie and 1 swordman\2 avenger for zerk).

Since apparently ele staff seem to be back to be the King of dps over fresh air, alacrity could be back to be strongest buff of the game, that means you want as more avenger as possible.

So every “dps check” with more than 1 offensive phantasm up is gonna bring us to unoptimal result (speaking about raid enviroment ofc).

But i don’t want to use golds just to test condie gear so this time i gonna just wait other people results #lazyforthewin xD

Xyonon.3987:

Power scepter and power sword both have around 10k dps. Sword still a tiny bit more, but you can use the scepter now for swap 3 11111 3 swap to outdamage the sword.

(Raid enviormental buffs (real dps), no food)

• Sword only: 7’727
• Scepter only: 6’719
• Both weps: 7’859

So … if you keep swapping on CD you deal more damage with the scepter. This number gets even better if you use your CS on scepter to dublicate scepter #3 and don’t use any aa’s at all.

If the combat forces you to go on range even for a few moments like VG, Gorse (you can double pierce spirits here <3), Sabby (you can hit her and turrets with the pierce <3) and Matt, I’d always use a scepter now.

And if you are running an alacrity/quickness build, since you have anyway downtime for the well casts, I guess you can get a comparatively even better DPS using scepter. (btw, did you include alacrity?)

Honestly, I can’t see that 100 dps boost as a reason to introduce the complication of swapping back and forth with scepter and sword just because you go out of range for half a second to chuck a bomb at a boost pad or something.

Heya!

aelfwe.4239:

Mmh.. as a chrono you should not never be on range on vg or gorse and sword allow you to not having to stop dps to dodge anything, while scepter force you to dodge to avoid blue circle or gorsie stomp.

“Not never be on range” exactly! Jokes aside, we almost always run with 2 Chronos in our guild. The main reason for this at VG is because the ranged ppl have not a good uptime of quickness, alacrity and sometimes even might / fury.

So one Chrono stays melee and tanks while having 3 avengers up. Meanwhile the other Chrono stays in the green field team with 2 condi Engis and 1 Druid, so no other good dps profession has to go there, like a Tempest or power Engi.

The ranged Chrono will get boons in melee and then share them on ranged with the “poor” Engis etc. He will also provide Alacrity trough wells wich they normally wouldn’t get, wich is especially effective for Engis and Druids.

The best part tough is, that 3 swordsmen still deal damage while moving to the green fields. In fact, the Mesmer will be able to deal as much dps as other professions in this scenario, since he doesn’t really lose anything by moving to green fields whereas other professions drop their dps drasticly.

aelfwe.4239:

And being “on range” on vg or gorse isnt exactly an hard goal to achieve.. Outside you have some weird pug tank running whole around, but that’s doesnt make scepter to be an optimal choice.

Ever done Gorse no updraft? You’ll be on range in this fight for a loooong time. Spirits? You want to use the sword with 15% more dps or the scepter? Well I prefer not to have weakness thankyouverymuch, also nice to hit multiple spirits / orbs with scepter #3. A must have against Gorse imo.

aelfwe.4239:

Sabby is even more sword friendly outside you are assigned to the ranged role.

THIS … is true

aelfwe.4239:

If i’d have to chose a “scepter friendly” fight, i’d go for mathias.. Boss moving randomly following the further one, green well mechanics, skull mechanics force you to move. Not vg or gorsie.

Always gonna use scepter there. Already did and it’s amazing. Don’t have to tell ya’ll about the block too, now do I? <3

aelfwe.4239:

In general btw i’d like to see some result of dps comparison between condie gear and zerk\sin gear on a raid enviroment (aka 1 duelist\2 avenger for condie and 1 swordman\2 avenger for zerk).

Condi will deal more damage, easy, but no Chrono runes = no quickness to share :/ I had the idea of condi mes on sabby tough. Ranged, Druid melee, both playin’ condi. But also as 2nd Chrono ofc. Never play solo condi Chrono. Except for fotm ofc :P

aelfwe.4239:

Since apparently ele staff seem to be back to be the King of dps over fresh air, alacrity could be back to be strongest buff of the game, that means you want as more avenger as possible.

Alacrity was also very strong for the FA tempest, but I agree, staff temp benefits even more. That’s another reason to use 2 Chronos @ gorse – Alacrity is awesome.

aelfwe.4239:

So every “dps check” with more than 1 offensive phantasm up is gonna bring us to unoptimal result (speaking about raid enviroment ofc).

What do you want to tell me with this. ? :o My dps was weapon damage only.

aelfwe.4239:

But i don’t want to use golds just to test condie gear so this time i gonna just wait other people results #lazyforthewin xD

Got one, full asc, what shall I test for ya?

Silverkey.2078:

And if you are running an alacrity/quickness build, since you have anyway downtime for the well casts, I guess you can get a comparatively even better DPS using scepter. (btw, did you include alacrity?)

Yes this was with alacrity and quickness. And I agree. I used to play with staff against Sabby when I was not using concentration based on the same method. Summon staff phantasms, use chaos storm, cs, all the stuff, then go on sword and dps. When CS is ready again you go on staff to resummon and never use a staff autohit ever, while having the best dps phants we have (6+ condis / power).

We will probably start doing a similiar thing with the scepter now. Sword aa → swap → scepter #3 with CS in the end, ALL THE STUFF YOU DO IN CS, scepter #3 → swap → sword stuff → repeat

Fay.2357:

Honestly, I can’t see that 100 dps boost as a reason to introduce the complication of swapping back and forth with scepter and sword just because you go out of range for half a second to chuck a bomb at a boost pad or something.

That 100 dps boost is the minimum. If you now use CS correctly on scepter it gets more. If you ever can’t attack with the sword for what reason ever (looking at you matthias), then you’d be better with the scepter since it’s not a dps loss if you could stay in melee. There is nothing to lose, you swap anyway for concentration, so what’s the big deal? :P

Greeez!

And sorry for the ultra long post gl hf!

Fay.2357:

So in mostly zerker gear with a full set of normal raid buffs (25 might, fury, quickness, alacrity, EA, spotter, disc, strength, assassin’s presence, frost spirit, grace of the land), with domination, dueling, and illusions, I’m clocking about 13.7k dps autoattacking in sword with 3 sword phantasms up. I also used 25 vuln on the golem.

I think this 13.7k dps is close to the highest realistic power dps mesmer could do when fully specced into it. You’re providing zero utility to the team, nothing but dps. I believe that condie could go substantially higher, but I unfortunately lack sinister/viper gear to test this out.

Yes, I repeated your process with Exo weapons, full berserker ascended armor and trinkets. Gave myself the profession specific boons (I didn’t the first time.) and ended up with ~14K dps. So shatters and wells are a dps loss? If that’s not the case it must be a rotational issue on my part.

Edit: Repeat with the profession mechanics, same weapons, exo sword and shield off hand. Took chronophantasma and gravity well. Got up to 15k as a PvE nub. Those profession specific boons are nuts.

@Xyonon: No need for concentration, I keep a couple of pet revenants with me for that instead. In any case, even with perfectly optimal use of CI, you’re not going to be cracking 500-800 dps boost tops, which is ultimately pretty insignificant. Unless I’m losing dps due to range issues, staying with sword will be more reliable while providing better defense and making your rotation more flexible.

SteepledHat.1345:

Fay.2357:

So in mostly zerker gear with a full set of normal raid buffs (25 might, fury, quickness, alacrity, EA, spotter, disc, strength, assassin’s presence, frost spirit, grace of the land), with domination, dueling, and illusions, I’m clocking about 13.7k dps autoattacking in sword with 3 sword phantasms up. I also used 25 vuln on the golem.

I think this 13.7k dps is close to the highest realistic power dps mesmer could do when fully specced into it. You’re providing zero utility to the team, nothing but dps. I believe that condie could go substantially higher, but I unfortunately lack sinister/viper gear to test this out.

Yes, I repeated your process with Exo weapons, full berserker ascended armor and trinkets. Gave myself the profession specific boons (I didn’t the first time.) and ended up with ~14K dps. So shatters and wells are a dps loss? If that’s not the case it must be a rotational issue on my part.

Edit: Repeat with the profession mechanics, same weapons, exo sword and shield off hand. Took chronophantasma and gravity well. Got up to 15k as a PvE nub. Those profession specific boons are nuts.

Yes, shatters and wells are a dps loss. All of these ‘maximum damage setups’ that we’ve been posting would never actually be wanted on a team because they don’t bring the actually important stuff i.e. Alacrity and quickness. Chrono takes a substantial personal dps loss to provide heavy dps support to everyone else.

Fay.2357:

I think this 13.7k dps is close to the highest realistic power dps mesmer could do when fully specced into it. You’re providing zero utility to the team, nothing but dps. I believe that condie could go substantially higher, but I unfortunately lack sinister/viper gear to test this out.

Yes, I repeated your process with Exo weapons, full berserker ascended armor and trinkets. Gave myself the profession specific boons (I didn’t the first time.) and ended up with ~14K dps. So shatters and wells are a dps loss? If that’s not the case it must be a rotational issue on my part.

Edit: Repeat with the profession mechanics, same weapons, exo sword and shield off hand. Took chronophantasma and gravity well. Got up to 15k as a PvE nub. Those profession specific boons are nuts.
[/quote]

Yes, shatters and wells are a dps loss. All of these ‘maximum damage setups’ that we’ve been posting would never actually be wanted on a team because they don’t bring the actually important stuff i.e. Alacrity and quickness. Chrono takes a substantial personal dps loss to provide heavy dps support to everyone else. [/quote]

Yeah, I figured as much that was how it was pre HoT. However, if you pair chronophantasma with gravity well and well of calamity you can squeeze up a bit more dps. But I realize that’s not the mesmer’s role. Support is the goal.

Fay.2357:

@Xyonon: No need for concentration, I keep a couple of pet revenants with me for that instead. In any case, even with perfectly optimal use of CI, you’re not going to be cracking 500-800 dps boost tops, which is ultimately pretty insignificant. Unless I’m losing dps due to range issues, staying with sword will be more reliable while providing better defense and making your rotation more flexible.

You tell me 500-800 dps boost is insignificant, but you don’t want to use concentration (I assume you use Air / Accuracy instead wich both are around 800 dps aswell)? You two chronos, ditch the Rev and be happy about perma quickness AND alacrity.

You can go with a Rev if you want the might and fury from him, when the war is unable to buff perma might on his own, if he can’t stay melee all the time like at Matthias in the end. But even that problem is quickly solved with 2 Chronos and SoI.

Btt: It doesn’t matter for me what effort I put into my playstyle, even for a little dps. 500-800 is not nothing my friend. That’s pretty much what a free Superior Sigil of Air is. If everyone would put the same effort into their playstyles like me with my Chrono, the party’d have 5000-8000 more dps. I’ll definitly start using a scepter from now on.

The rotation is still flexible. I used to tell myself too “concentration, scepter = not flexible rotation”. But it’s simply not true. It feels strange in the beginning but now I just accept that I was wrong and lazy in my old days. Concentration is also just 30g anymore, so it’s a must have imo.

Fay.2357:

I think this 13.7k dps is close to the highest realistic power dps mesmer could do when fully specced into it. You’re providing zero utility to the team, nothing but dps. I believe that condie could go substantially higher, but I unfortunately lack sinister/viper gear to test this out.

All of these ‘maximum damage setups’ that we’ve been posting would never actually be wanted on a team because they don’t bring the actually important stuff i.e. Alacrity and quickness. Chrono takes a substantial personal dps loss to provide heavy dps support to everyone else.

I just went to the test area: All boons (phants had fury wich was unintentional!), 3 stacks gotl, banner, frost spirit, ea, spotter. The enemy had 8 conditions.

I used Dom, Illu, Chrono, performed my normal rota, just with 3 phantamal warlocks and had 18k dps (probably lower without the fury, but I might aswell spec full dmg like you to make that up). 13.7k dps with fully dps specced mes is oddly low imo.

Heck when I go condi with raid realistic buffs I have 20k dps and still provide a little bit of quickness and alacrity with WoR and ToT / TW with CS.

I got about 23k with all the bells and whistles, max condi, 2 warlocks and one swordsman in full zerker with signet of inspiration to give all boons to phantasms.

Other combos of say 2 swordsmans and duellist was about 13k.

Both dom, duelling, illusions. Kinda pathetic if you run similar DPS builds on other classes.

13k with 2 swordsmen and 1 duellist and the same playstyle as with 2 warlocks and one swordy? Seems a bit of a huge difference, doesn’kitten Well maybe the duellist really draws you down compared to a 3rd swordie. hmmm

Xyonon.3987:

“Not never be on range” exactly! Jokes aside, we almost always run with 2 Chronos in our guild. The main reason for this at VG is because the ranged ppl have not a good uptime of quickness, alacrity and sometimes even might / fury.

So one Chrono stays melee and tanks while having 3 avengers up. Meanwhile the other Chrono stays in the green field team with 2 condi Engis and 1 Druid, so no other good dps profession has to go there, like a Tempest or power Engi.

The ranged Chrono will get boons in melee and then share them on ranged with the “poor” Engis etc. He will also provide Alacrity trough wells wich they normally wouldn’t get, wich is especially effective for Engis and Druids.

The best part tough is, that 3 swordsmen still deal damage while moving to the green fields. In fact, the Mesmer will be able to deal as much dps as other professions in this scenario, since he doesn’t really lose anything by moving to green fields whereas other professions drop their dps drasticly.

Well, this is kinda different from saying

Xyonon.3987:

If the combat forces you to go on range even for a few moments like VG, Gorse

Indeed, if you have 2 chrono and you put the 2nd chrono on green duty then scepter is better.

But if you are playing that way then scepter has always been better, even prio last 2 scepter buffs so i don’t see the relationship between a really particular raid setup you’re using and the general “sword vs scepter” talk we’re having here

On general on vg if you have a chrono it will be melee and it will be melee and it will use sword outside he’s puggin with an horrible tank that makes the boss to randomly moving all around.

The issue of the scepter is (and it has always been) that it lack any particular utility (while sword got blink, immobilize for breakbar, and evade on demand on low cd to not lose dps).

So it should outdps the sword, but sadly anet seem to not get that, and they keep to add dmg to scepter aiming to put it on same lvl as sword, sadly, without any utility addition we always come to the point where:

1- wow they added dmg to scepter!!! finally it’s viable
2- test —> same dmg as sword
3- ok but if you’re ranged it’s better!!!
4- barely no ranged fight
5- wait for next scepter buff

Xyonon.3987:

Ever done Gorse no updraft? You’ll be on range in this fight for a loooong time. Spirits? You want to use the sword with 15% more dps or the scepter? Well I prefer not to have weakness thankyouverymuch, also nice to hit multiple spirits / orbs with scepter #3. A must have against Gorse imo.

yeah i started doing no updraft like 1 week after king, i have some vid

this has been our fist or second no updraft kill.

As you can see its a 3+ months vid, we sucked there a lot, we had downed, we miss dodge and our dps was garbage so we had to delay cc, and even delaying we just had to move out a bit on last 2 cc phase.

But that’s an old video and it was our 1st time, now sadly we dont have more recent video simply casue no updraft has become so common that recording it it’s clueless, but i can do one if you want, because actually on no updraft you are not moving ranged at all with domi-inspi-chrono distorsion on signet.

Gorsie in my opinion is prolly the fight where scepter its more unusefull, dunno if you’re using different tact tho

Xyonon.3987:

What do you want to tell me with this. ? :o My dps was weapon damage only.

Got one, full asc, what shall I test for ya?

Test should be:

Zerk build+chrono runes: domi, inspi, chrono, woe woa wor soi tw, sw\sw sw\sh

Hold up 2 avenger+1 swordman and do whole test with raid buff rotation meleeing.

Condie gear (viper? rampager?) + crono runes: dueling (with bleed trait), inspi, chrono, woe woa wor soi tw sc\pistol sc\sh

Hold up 2 avenger+1 duelist and do whole test with raid buff rotation meleeing.

Put on yourself all buff+all class specific buff minus quick and alacrity (you gonna your own)

Put on the target 25 vulnerabity and 6 random condie (not every condie)

The goal here is to check the moist realistic dmg between in a raid enviroment where you are goin to focus on your buff rotation holding 2 avenger always up

It would be really nice if you could check the condie part since i miss the gear and i think it will sux so don’t want to use gold to make gear till i’m sure i’m wrong

Xyonon.3987:

13k with 2 swordsmen and 1 duellist and the same playstyle as with 2 warlocks and one swordy? Seems a bit of a huge difference, doesn’kitten Well maybe the duellist really draws you down compared to a 3rd swordie. hmmm

I trust you being a mentor for PvE you know that warlocks get a 10% increase in damage per condition on the enemy, so when the golem has all the conditions it was hitting for 24k usually.

Combine that with Phantasmal Haste, all boons on them shared by signet of inspiration and all profession buffs on you and you get some pretty high DPS. I’d have got a lot more if I had 3 instead of another swordsman. However this is a fantasy scenario. A more realistic one would have been 2 swordsman and a duellist which clocked out at a rather pathetic 13k on the old dps build we all ran.