Guild Wars 2

Krathalos.3461:

Sabin.4590:

a thief using unload while blinded misses the first attack,
a mesmer using illusionary duelist while blinded misses all the attacks.That’s more then reason for it to be unbalanced.

A thief using cloak and dagger while blinded misses the attack, and loses 6 out of 12 of the base initiative they have (global cooldown).
A Mesmer using Blurred Frenzy while blinded misses the first attack.
That’s more than reason for it to be unbalanced.

See what I did there? All classes are hurt by Blind whenever they use an ability that is affected by it the most. For Mesmers, it happens to be Illusions. Stop acting like all classes are the same when you compare a multi-hit ability when blinded. If you were comparing Blurred Frenzy to Unload, then it would have been a fair comparison. Apples and oranges…

I basically compared the same skills, Unload and illusonary pistols are just the same. But clock and dagger to blurred frenzy are not.

You didn’t compare anything near the same skill. That’s like saying Whirlwind and Berserker are the same skills. They are completely different and function completely different.

You have a flawed and biased argument.

lol @ unload and illusionary duelist not being the same skill. The only difference is that you can kill the Mesmers version before it finishes. Apparently that wasn’t enough and it now has to be completely removed with a spamable condition.

Out of interest does anybody know if being blinded now also stops minions/turrets/spirit weapons/elementals from being spawned? I mean if it is balanced to allow something so integral to the Mesmer class that we have to use them to do basic things (like leaps and small team buffs) to get so easily negated then surly it must also be balanced to also completely destroy these optional specs for the other classes.

Levetty.1279:

Out of interest does anybody know if being blinded now also stops minions/turrets/spirit weapons/elementals from being spawned?

It has no affect on them. They are created without a target and therefore cannot “miss”

Krathalos.3461:

Sabin.4590:

a thief using unload while blinded misses the first attack,
a mesmer using illusionary duelist while blinded misses all the attacks.That’s more then reason for it to be unbalanced.

A thief using cloak and dagger while blinded misses the attack, and loses 6 out of 12 of the base initiative they have (global cooldown).
A Mesmer using Blurred Frenzy while blinded misses the first attack.
That’s more than reason for it to be unbalanced.

See what I did there? All classes are hurt by Blind whenever they use an ability that is affected by it the most. For Mesmers, it happens to be Illusions. Stop acting like all classes are the same when you compare a multi-hit ability when blinded. If you were comparing Blurred Frenzy to Unload, then it would have been a fair comparison. Apples and oranges…

yes evryone see what you did….you did a silly afirmation LOL.

how can you say cloack and dagger is same blurred frenzy??? blured frenzy is a chanelling skill cloack and dagger isnt, obvious blurred frenzy only will miss one hit from the channel skill. what you want more? you want our non illusion channel attacks be full miss with just one blind?

maybe thief must failed enter stealth when they are blind LOL research first to avoid making those ridiculous comparasion.

unload and phantasm duelist are basically the same, both channel sklill, both same range….i think anyone know both classes can see this.

yes mesmer can still do other stuff after cast phantasm duelist but cant spam that skill like thief, obvious something must be diferent the classes arent same…..

Hello all,
I think it’s a mistake to try classify phantasm as either summons, conditions or attacks. Simply because Anet designed them as something else: illusions.

This is obvious from Guild wars 2 web site under Mesmer profession:
“Phantasms are illusions that look like transparent versions of the caster and carry their own illusionary weapons.”

And again from the same web page:
“Mesmers create illusions, replicas of themselves that attack their foes. Illusions are directed at a specific target and exist as long as that target is alive, or until they are destroyed. "

The last patch changed that a bit. I would say that they are now still illusions but also inherited the “attack” requirements/restrictions in order to land (or in this case manifest). So my point is that changes on phantasm can only be evaluated inside the profession context. We should not try to justify if the blind should prevent a phantom to manifest because it prevents an attack, they are different concepts.

Also because phantom are so tightly integrated with the core mechanics, I would like to see Anet putting some effort to finalize the concept of Phantasms. They went from something like “stronger clones” to “living hexes” to “something like attacks” all since beta weekends.

Cheers.

possante.8310:

yes evryone see what you did….you did a silly afirmation LOL.

how can you say cloack and dagger is same blurred frenzy??? blured frenzy is a chanelling skill cloack and dagger isnt, obvious blurred frenzy only will miss one hit from the channel skill. what you want more? you want our non illusion channel attacks be full miss with just one blind?

maybe thief must failed enter stealth when they are blind LOL research first to avoid making those ridiculous comparasion.

unload and phantasm duelist are basically the same, both channel sklill, both same range….i think anyone know both classes can see this.

yes mesmer can still do other stuff after cast phantasm duelist but cant spam that skill like thief, obvious something must be diferent the classes arent same…..

I didn’t say they were the same skill. I compared to very distinctively different abilities while acting like they need to be treated the same, just as he did.

Unload and Phantasmal Duelist are completely different. If you’re truly trying to act like they’re the same, then you really aren’t worth replying to.

If you think Duelist needs to be treated as the same as Unload, you have no idea what “balance” is.

both are channel range skills, diference is one is spammable (thief) and other the caster can do other stuff, that calls class mechanic.

blind is so powerfull against mesmer that phantasm build is completly useless now, you cant relly you dps in something that most of time do nothing either because you failed cast it because bilnd/block/dodge, they are amazing easy to kill ( even with traits any burst class need almost only 1 hit to kill them) and dont even good have dps.

balance? sorry but clearly you dont know what is that. illusion should be treaten not as summons neither simple weapon atacks, should be treaten as illusion, now they are treaten like simple atacks (well not even that because dont exist any channeling skill that miss all atacks with just one blind and exist lot of weapons skill that can still be cast even when you are blind)

I think perhaps non-mesmers don’t quite realize just how much DPS comes from iBerserker for GS. The auto attacks are about 300/600 each at max range (x3 over 1.5s); ~8k over 12s. Fully traited, you can summon a phantasm every 12s for 2~6k directly and another 1~2k for the shatter. And, that’s an AE skill — not a single target skill. That’s huge.

No other class looses anywhere close to 50% of their DPS for 12s due to a blind. For every other class, blind is a minor irritant, not a shutdown. And, for every other class, blind is removed when it blocks one hit, not 2-6 AE hits and a class mechanic hit. AFAIK, blind doesn’t effect any AE skills other than mesmer’s and only the first hit on a multi-hit skill.

There’s just no way to create a compelling argument that this is anything but absurdly more unbalanced than the pre-patch behavior.

Okuza.5210:

AFAIK, blind doesn’t effect any AE skills other than mesmer’s and only the first hit on a multi-hit skill.

If they are gtae\pbae multi-hit, then yes. Single-hit targeted aoe’s are negated(elementalist staff fire\air auto for instance).
But the issue of phantasms is that they combine multiple mechanics in one skill and in case of Iberserker they(roughly) will be targeted, summon, pbae.
It’s really hard to actually find what counters should affect this skill, what shouldn’t and on top of this not break ever volatile balance in pvp, pve and www.
That’s hell of a job and we should at least give balance team some time to think about it.

Make stealth fail if the thief is blind. Also steal as well if it isn’t already effected by blind.

Attunement switching should fail and go on c/d when blind.

Utility belt skills should fail and go on c/d when blind.

Death shroud should fail on go on c/d when blind — maybe lose all life force as well, but maybe not.

Adrenaline skill should fail and all adrenaline lost when blind.

Pet should “un-summon” when ranger becomes blind and summon go on c/d.

Virtues should become disabled when guardian is blind. Using any virtue should fail when blind and go on c/d.

/sarcasm off

Those are clearly bad ideas — all of them. So why have something similarly preposterous for Mesmer?

Krathalos.3461:

If you want equality among classes, then you’ll have to give up more than what you’re bargaining for. You just want equality where it’s convenient for you.

For example, NO OTHER CLASS has the utility that a mesmer has. For example, Portal. What other class can transport an entire zerg in a second? Right, none. That’s imbalanced between classes. What other class has CDR on a 5 point minor trait, which affects not only a majority of weapon skills but utility skills as well? Again, none.

I could go on, too. Acting like all classes need to be equal while you sit around playing the class that has more things no other class has is just asinine. Either change your argument or give it up.

LOL, dopey kitten. This isn’t unbalanced or overpowered. Portal does absolutely nothing for a mesmer’s personal play. As you have stated one of its uses is to transport zergs, both teams have access to this. For this to be effective you actually need other real people playing and taking the portal.

Use your brain before posting a dopey comment like that.

I think the point the OP is trying to make is that Blindness affects Mesmers differently than others.

Phantasms are already a bit unreliable due to the ease of killing them before they can even attack. Besides that, their attacks are just as susceptible to blind/dodge/aegis as any other, all while coming from a fragile and unpredictable source.

So now on top of that, Mesmers have to deal with Blindness on themselves making their mechanic even moreso unreliable. Especially if the Blindness doesn’t even go away after preventing your skill (I can’t confirm that one).

Josh P.1296:

LOL, dopey kitten. This isn’t unbalanced or overpowered. Portal does absolutely nothing for a mesmer’s personal play. As you have stated one of its uses is to transport zergs, both teams have access to this. For this to be effective you actually need other real people playing and taking the portal.

Use your brain before posting a dopey comment like that.

You’re pretty bad if you think Portal can’t be used in “personal play.” You can place a portal entrance, then go into a fight. If things start to get hectic, you just place the exit and portal out. A get out of jail free card on a 90 second CD.

Another situation: you’re using a ranged weapon, and fighting a melee character. You place two portals, and teleport between them to effectively kite your opponent with ease.

Seriously, portal has so many different areas where it’s good. It’s not only great in WvW.

juno.1840:

Make stealth fail if the thief is blind. Also steal as well if it isn’t already effected by blind.

Attunement switching should fail and go on c/d when blind.

Utility belt skills should fail and go on c/d when blind.

Death shroud should fail on go on c/d when blind — maybe lose all life force as well, but maybe not.

Adrenaline skill should fail and all adrenaline lost when blind.

Pet should “un-summon” when ranger becomes blind and summon go on c/d.

Virtues should become disabled when guardian is blind. Using any virtue should fail when blind and go on c/d.

/sarcasm off

Those are clearly bad ideas — all of them. So why have something similarly preposterous for Mesmer?

Stealth isn’t a thief-only mechanic. Steal already is affected by blind.

Attunement switching isn’t an attack. It’s equivalent to weapon swapping. Unaffected by blind on all classes.

If it’s an attack utility belt skill, it is affected by blind. Ram, for example, would fail and go on CD if blinded.

Death Shroud is a self-buff. No class’s self-buff is affected by blind. Distortion (your f4) would be similar to this, and it’s unaffected if you’re blind.

Adrenaline skills already do fail and go on CD when blind. They do not, however, lose their adrenaline, as they do not make contact with the enemy.

Ranger is UP enough. You could remove all phantasms from Mesmer and Mesmer would still be better than Ranger.

For virtues, see Death Shroud explanation.

Even if you were being sarcastic, Phantasms aren’t the only core ability. Your ability to summon illusions as a whole, as well kittenter skills, are Mesmer’s class mechanic. You can still summon illusions through utilities or dodge while blind. Now, if you were unable to use shatters or summon illusions by any means, these examples would be relevant.

Which means that if you don’t have 20 points in dueling for the clone on dodge (not working in chaar fractal btw) or 30 points in illusions to put distorsion at will, you’re pretty much screwed. Nice one. Do you know the clone on dodge doesn’t necessarily target the person you’re targetting? No you don’t I guess so you have poor control on this type of illusions from the moment it’s not a 1v1.
Virtues aren’t only self buff btw so explain to me why my iDefender/iDisenchanter should fail to spawn?

Why does every class discussion have to come down to this? People who play the class pointing out that something’s not right, and people who don’t play the class saying it’s perfectly balanced?

Wish we could get real Dev feedback on this. For the time being my Mesmer is shelved. I know, I know. I should L2P, adapt, and run a clone shatter build so I can ignore the phantasms taking up 20% of my weapon slots.

I love the Mesmer so much, I probably will, eventually. I still hope they come up with a solution that gives us our phantasms back before then, though.

For me, it’s not even about Blind. It’s about random rocks in the terrain sending my phantasms on cooldown.

OBSTRUCTED OBSTRUCTED OBSTRUCTED

Krathalos.3461:

You’re pretty bad if you think Portal can’t be used in “personal play.” You can place a portal entrance, then go into a fight. If things start to get hectic, you just place the exit and portal out. A get out of jail free card on a 90 second CD.

Well gee, I’m glad i have a good way of running away – I’m going to need it seeing how my offence is screwed up.

One solution could be that blind makes illusions fail but only puts them on the 3-4 second cooldown you get if you get interuppted or something like that, rather than the full skill cooldown. There is no doubt right now that blind neuters a mesmer much more than it neuters other classes, and it’s difficult to see why that should be the case.

Also one thing that absolutely needs to be fixed is that current if you are blind sometimes your illusion will not only fail but the blind won’t even be consumed.

How about if Blind simply makes the Phantasm’s first volley of attacks fail. That way the “attack” fails from being blinded, but everything else about the Phantasm remains (including subsequent attacks from the Phantasm).

As for “Obstructed”/“Invulnerable”, how about the Phantasm simply spawns at your location (no matter how the Phantasm usually is spawned), forfits its first volley (as the Blind suggestion), then walks up and then behaves normally. This would allow us to not be completely screwed over by having a mosquito fly through our LoS, and it would prevent Mesmers from spawning iBeserker on top of walls (not commenting on whether this right or wrong here).

These suggestions would make it so that we aren’t denied our class specific resources simply because of buggy LoS or simply being a class that is subject to an imbalance effected by a single condition… a condition that is otherwise little more than a minor annoyance.