Guild Wars 2

Axe for necromancer is my second favorite weapon. Right behind Scepter. Which makes me sad that the auto is so horrible looking, and feels so bad to use that I haven’t touched the axe in a few months. Yeah, its that bad. I’ll try to be nicer about it, however that doesn’t mean I wont be critical about the axe. So I’m going to make some suggestions to make the axe a viable weapon. I’m going to be looking at the traits that are effected by axe as well as axe itself.

First lets take a look at the axe.

Auto Attack: Change this into a skill chain. This will stop skill canceling and the pay of for the third attack will make the full force of this attack weighted so that anyone using the axe will see value in the chain.

• Rending Claws: 1/2 cast time: Damages and causes vulnerability.
• Tearing claws: 1/2 cast time: Damages and causes vulnerability.
• Corrupted Claws: 3/4 cast time: High damage and corrupts a boon on a foe.

Ghastly Claws: Add function that it also damages up to 3 foes at melee range as well as becomes a Combo whirl finisher.

Unholy Feast: Increase its base damage and reduce its cast time.

Why am I suggesting these changes and not something thats a bit more popular like range increase or a blast finisher? Well, the answer is fairly simple. I’d like to keep the axe to a sort of frightening corruption theme with high overall damage. Giving this a reverse Mesmer greatsword effect that allows it to have much greater damage at melee than at far range playing more into the necro’s midrange style rather than trying to force this to be a long range weapon. I don’t want change the weapons function. Or make people only want to take it because of some silly blast finisher that was tacked onto it. It should stand as a weapon in its own right. And it shouldn’t just outclass the staff or scepter. I believe keeping this at 600 range is the correct way to go. And giving it combo utility is important, but not the only thing that’s important about this weapon. I also feel that 3 already does enough as it stands, it just needs a little boost while the other skills need some serious help.

Traits

• Unholy Fervor: While wielding an axe you gain 150 power. 20% cooldown reduction.

• Spiteful Spirit: Conditions applied by through boon corruption last 100% longer. Whenever you enter shroud, cast unholy feast.

Fairly simple changes. The 10% bonus should just be rolled into the base of the necromancer’s axe. Although it should probably be buffed anyway. Having that 150 power should be a nice touch although that might be a bit powerful. Having 10% power converted into Ferocity while wielding an axe is also a decent alternative. One thing that the necromancer is missing compared to other professions which seriously impacts their damage is flat stat boosts. And the axe seems like a good place to start with that. Also, keeping the with the corruption theme, Spiteful spirit as a grandmaster could give a condition hybrid alternative to the necromancer as opposed to the signet build. Though, this is still a tough call as they do fill the same space. It might just be better for spiteful spirit to have a completely new function. Though other than it applying confusion I see no space for it in spite currently.

What are your guys’s thoughts?

Corrupting one boon every 3 seconds is really beyond what is acceptable for a autoattack even ripping one would be over the top. Right now necromancer lacks a ranged power option something reaper even more pronounces. So I suggest:

Auto Attack:
Rending Claws: 1/2 cast time: Damages and causes vulnerability. (needs a damage boost compared to now).
Tearing claws: 1/2 cast time: Damages and causes vulnerability.
Corrupted Claws: 3/4 cast time: High(er) damage and cripple.
Ghastly Claws: High damage, last hit applies 2 seconds of chill (not sure about this one) and a Combo whirl finisher
Unholy Feast: change cripple to ~1,5 seconds of immobilize and retaliation to swiftness.
Unholy Fervor: change tto deal 10% more damge to vulnerable foes. Axe skills get 20 second cooldown reduction .
Spiteful Spirit: no icd.
The main point is to make the weapon a kitting tool at mid range. 900 range might be necesairy but with all the soft cc I doubt it.

Between dagger, great sword, shouts, and RS, axe has a smaller place in all game modes.

It needs a complete rework to make it more distinct as a power weapon. The vulnerability is a huge handicap on axe because that condition is spammed so prolifically that it can be powerful one moment (solo Mm) and useless the next.

Axe needs a huge change. I would put burning on it and shorten the range to 400 instead of vulnerability and see how the switch to a condition damage weapon changes its usage. It was popular in Dhuumfire v1.

tbh what axe needs is 900 range and a better auto attack. maybe a faster skill 2.

Tim.6450:

Corrupting one boon every 3 seconds is really beyond what is acceptable for a autoattack even ripping one would be over the top. Right now necromancer lacks a ranged power option something reaper even more pronounces. So I suggest:

Auto Attack:
Rending Claws: 1/2 cast time: Damages and causes vulnerability. (needs a damage boost compared to now).
Tearing claws: 1/2 cast time: Damages and causes vulnerability.
Corrupted Claws: 3/4 cast time: High(er) damage and cripple.
Ghastly Claws: High damage, last hit applies 2 seconds of chill (not sure about this one) and a Combo whirl finisher
Unholy Feast: change cripple to ~1,5 seconds of immobilize and retaliation to swiftness.
Unholy Fervor: change tto deal 10% more damge to vulnerable foes. Axe skills get 20 second cooldown reduction .
Spiteful Spirit: no icd.
The main point is to make the weapon a kitting tool at mid range. 900 range might be necesairy but with all the soft cc I doubt it.

No one ever complained about http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mind_Spike Oh, and each clone rips boons as well… So, no its not over the top. Plus a high ranged option is something we should expect from a second elite specialization and not at the core.

PS: A Ranged cripple on auto is WAY more powerful than a corruption. Especially since its a random boon. Actually, your entire idea is completely busted. Sorry to say.

Just increase the damage and put a blast on 3.

No need to reinvent the wheel here.

animation on axe 1 need a rework range need to be 900 increase damage by 40% skill 1 also apply cripple skill 2 need to be faster and combo whirl finisher skill 3 damage increase thats all the axe need

Brokensunday.4098:

animation on axe 1 need a rework range need to be 900 increase damage by 40% skill 1 also apply cripple skill 2 need to be faster and combo whirl finisher skill 3 damage increase thats all the axe need

any sort of CC on an auto attack that isn’t an auto attack on an elite transformation is extremely busted at range. I honestly don’t understand how people can’t understand that…

nekretaal.6485:

Just increase the damage and put a blast on 3.

No need to reinvent the wheel here.

Axe currently doesn’t have a home and a blast finisher will not make it as useful as you think it would. It also wouldn’t give the axe a home either. A sort of combo supportive weapon, which is what a blast finisher supports, isn’t in the axe’s design as it stands. And it shouldn’t be. An offhand with a blast finisher would both make more sense and would be far better for the overall design of our weapons.

Also, we’ve had the damage increased several times over the years, if what you’re saying is that simple the axe would have been useful by now. But low and behold, it never has been.

I think #1 and #2 should be 900 range and they all need increased damage. #1 should have a 1/2 second cast time and #2 should have a 1.5 second cast time. #2 should have 25% LF gen (it takes a whole 40 seconds longer to reach full LF with axe than with dagger) and be a whirl finisher. #3 should be a blast finisher.
Spiteful Spirit at least needs to have it’s ICD removed. Even then I’m not sure if it’ll stand up to SoS and CtD, so how about each foe that Unholy Feast hits spawns another Unholy Feast (the new Unholy Feast does not spawn another one) and this affects normal axe.

Lily.1935:

Also, we’ve had the damage increased several times over the years, if what you’re saying is that simple the axe would have been useful by now.

False

Anet has never increased the damage coefficient of the entire weapon.

That’s whats subpar and needs to be increased. All they have done is upped the damage on axe 2 a few times, and tweaked 3 a few times (the last time was to change the boon rip to a boon corrupt). (and the increases on axe 2 were very conservative. The numbers suggest that its a very mediocre skill).

FWIW. anet has never increased the damage of axe 1. They have changed animation. The last change was effectively a nerf.

As for a blast finisher. If axe 3 gets one, the trait gets one too. That means you could blast twice in a row. Blast your well for blind (chill traited). Blast your well of blood for retaliation. Blast your spectral wall for Confusion. This in addition to helping your team with blasts.

It would be a totally unique playstyle in the game on its own (instead of feeling like a non condition scepter), and would be a welcome addition to the necromancer kitten nal.

Axe nerfs your Shroud damage, so it should be designed as a support (not pure damage) weapon.

nekretaal.6485:

Lily.1935:

Also, we’ve had the damage increased several times over the years, if what you’re saying is that simple the axe would have been useful by now.

False

Anet has never increased the damage coefficient of the entire weapon.

That’s whats subpar and needs to be increased. All they have done is upped the damage on axe 2 a few times, and tweaked 3 a few times (the last time was to change the boon rip to a boon corrupt). (and the increases on axe 2 were very conservative. The numbers suggest that its a very mediocre skill).

FWIW. anet has never increased the damage of axe 1. They have changed animation. The last change was effectively a nerf.

As for a blast finisher. If axe 3 gets one, the trait gets one too. That means you could blast twice in a row. Blast your well for blind (chill traited). Blast your well of blood for retaliation. Blast your spectral wall for Confusion. This in addition to helping your team with blasts.

It would be a totally unique playstyle in the game on its own (instead of feeling like a non condition scepter), and would be a welcome addition to the necromancer kitten nal.

Axe nerfs your Shroud damage, so it should be designed as a support (not pure damage) weapon.

It wouldn’t be unique. Both the engineer and Elementalist already do this in spades. It wouldn’t make us desired for groups either because 2 blast finishers isn’t enough to get into the zerker might meta. (Which also should die by the way because its a disgustingly destructive meta that turns away new players and creates elitism and spite among the community with people who’ve learned one trick to trivialize content.)

Also, Axe 1 has been increased a few times. I was there! Yeah, it was conservative changes but you also have to remember that traits had been moved around as well which effectively increased the axe’s damage because Close to Death used to compete with Axe mastery. And that was a flat 10% damage increase or 20% while the foe was below 50%, depending on how you looked at it. That was a significant buff and the axe was used for a while, even though it wasn’t amazing. Of course, the Staff was also much weaker back then as well.

Currently, we have a superb long ranged option. The staff is a great ranged option. Its damage isn’t too high, but it honestly doesn’t need to be. Its 1,200 range. The axe shouldn’t just become better weapon than Staff in this space. That space should be saved for an Elite Specialization. Currently, the necromancer doesn’t even have very much utility to support 1,200 range combat outside of conditions. Spectral grasp really being the only one, and with how offensive the necromancer’s traits are the axe doesn’t have a whole lot of support at 1,200 range. A 900 range it does, but even then the extra 300 range wouldn’t make it better than a scepter or staff. I’d still rather just take the scepter or staff. Even if I’m going full power. I need a reason to take it beyond damage. A ranged weapon needs to do more. And at short range this can fill a play style gap that the scepter and staff can’t.

Another problem with increasing its range is the issue with Unholy Feast. That skill would need to be completely redesigned to support the 900 range you’re suggesting. Which its designed entirely around the 600 range limit of the axe. So you would have to reinvent the wheel. Which at that point the blast finisher wouldn’t even be relevant.

nekretaal.6485:

Lily.1935:

Also, we’ve had the damage increased several times over the years, if what you’re saying is that simple the axe would have been useful by now.

False

Anet has never increased the damage coefficient of the entire weapon.

That’s whats subpar and needs to be increased. All they have done is upped the damage on axe 2 a few times, and tweaked 3 a few times (the last time was to change the boon rip to a boon corrupt). (and the increases on axe 2 were very conservative. The numbers suggest that its a very mediocre skill).

FWIW. anet has never increased the damage of axe 1. They have changed animation. The last change was effectively a nerf.

As for a blast finisher. If axe 3 gets one, the trait gets one too. That means you could blast twice in a row. Blast your well for blind (chill traited). Blast your well of blood for retaliation. Blast your spectral wall for Confusion. This in addition to helping your team with blasts.

It would be a totally unique playstyle in the game on its own (instead of feeling like a non condition scepter), and would be a welcome addition to the necromancer kitten nal.

Axe nerfs your Shroud damage, so it should be designed as a support (not pure damage) weapon.

staff is already the support wep so make axe the power one is logic

I agree, in general, that the axe could use some improvements and something to make it unique. Boon stripping could be one way to do this, but on every 3rd auto would definitely be too strong.

Perhaps rolled into #2 or #3 with a damage increase and/or cripple to the AA.

Jackalrat.5493:

I agree, in general, that the axe could use some improvements and something to make it unique. Boon stripping could be one way to do this, but on every 3rd auto would definitely be too strong.

Perhaps rolled into #2 or #3 with a damage increase and/or cripple to the AA.

Boons are pretty dominant right now. A direct conversion might be a bit strong, maybe though I’d still like them to test it. But stripping isn’t too strong as evidence from the mesmer’s Sword auto. Having 3 clones out they have a potential to remove 4 boons from the clone’s chain with no cool down. Granted its melee and there are inherent risks wit that. But when looking at the necromancer axe along with the suggested cast times its not as extreme as it sounds. Compared to the mesmer who could create 3 clones who could be auto attacking while the mesmer sits back quietly avoiding attacks or perhaps spamming blinds can hinder boons fairly well. At least in theory.

The advantage to the necromancer axe would be that its at a range. Even if its a low range its still a range. A direct conversion would give the axe a dual potential in power builds as well as hybrid builds who would value the axe for its natural high damage and potential with boon stripping. Combine that with the whirl finisher I’ve suggested for Ghastly Claws and suddenly the suggestions all add up to make perfect sense. Combo it with spectral wall for confusion bolts, or Corrosive poison cloud for poison bolts. Combo with allies with a fire field for high burning damage or regain a good chunk of your life with dark fields. The utility it provides is much higher for us than a blast finisher.

Also, just a cripple or any sort of soft CC on an auto attack is extremely dangerous. Especially at range. Throwing in a random element with the boon corruption is still less powerful than an auto attack cripple. Arena Net is cautious about giving CC on auto attacks for a very good reason. And we’ll never see a CC on a ranged auto attack just as a automatic ability that isn’t on an elite transformation.

Torment on auto chain 3….problem solved. YW

Lily.1935:

Tim.6450:

Corrupting one boon every 3 seconds is really beyond what is acceptable for a autoattack even ripping one would be over the top. Right now necromancer lacks a ranged power option something reaper even more pronounces. So I suggest:

Auto Attack:
Rending Claws: 1/2 cast time: Damages and causes vulnerability. (needs a damage boost compared to now).
Tearing claws: 1/2 cast time: Damages and causes vulnerability.
Corrupted Claws: 3/4 cast time: High(er) damage and cripple.
Ghastly Claws: High damage, last hit applies 2 seconds of chill (not sure about this one) and a Combo whirl finisher
Unholy Feast: change cripple to ~1,5 seconds of immobilize and retaliation to swiftness.
Unholy Fervor: change tto deal 10% more damge to vulnerable foes. Axe skills get 20 second cooldown reduction .
Spiteful Spirit: no icd.
The main point is to make the weapon a kitting tool at mid range. 900 range might be necesairy but with all the soft cc I doubt it.

No one ever complained about http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mind_Spike Oh, and each clone rips boons as well… So, no its not over the top. Plus a high ranged option is something we should expect from a second elite specialization and not at the core.

And tell me how often do the mesmer/clones survive to use it more then once every 15 seconds without completely ruining themselves? Axe is going to be able to do that. Also just because the axe was not a ranged power weapon doesn’t mean it was intended as such. Unless you are refferring to the 900 range and then I say focus.

PS: A Ranged cripple on auto is WAY more powerful than a corruption. Especially since its a random boon. Actually, your entire idea is completely busted. Sorry to say.

Guardian longbow is going to apply cripple. Also just because the boon conversion is random doesn’t makes it blanaced. Axe corrupting stability/resistance/quickness with it’s auto is not a good idea.

Lily.1935:

It wouldn’t be unique. Both the engineer and Elementalist already do this in spades. It wouldn’t make us desired for groups either because 2 blast finishers isn’t enough to get into the zerker might meta.

And, duh, that’s why it would be a completely unique playstyle. No fire fields & only 2 blasts means that you do not have the playstyle of the engi/ele zerker might meta.

I’ve heard this before: putting a blast on a profession does not turn it into an elementalist. Everybody can blast. Minions can blast.

Remember that axe is 66% single target only. So, if you could blast your own fields for AoE effects that vary according to the field, you’ve got an interesting tool to use with proper setup.

Plus the necromancer has it’s unique dark fields (and chill on blind trait which could very useful), and you have something different and new.

Axe does nerf your shroud damage (and being able to un nerf your damage by taking a trait is not a fix). It shoud be a support weapon & it’s base skills (all of them) should hit harder if you spec damage

Tim.6450:

And tell me how often do the mesmer/clones survive to use it more then once every 15 seconds without completely ruining themselves? Axe is going to be able to do that. Also just because the axe was not a ranged power weapon doesn’t mean it was intended as such. Unless you are refferring to the 900 range and then I say focus.

Often enough actually. Plus the mesmer can do it themselves with a lower cast time than what I’m proposing.

Tim.6450:

Guardian longbow is going to apply cripple. Also just because the boon conversion is random doesn’t makes it blanaced. Axe corrupting stability/resistance/quickness with it’s auto is not a good idea.

Its only if someone is by them. Its an extremely conditional application. Not unconditional like you’re suggesting. Plus, the axe isn’t a projectile so it has fewer skills that can block it, or move out of its path of fire because it doesn’t have one. Your idea is busted beyond repair. No… No auto attack CC. That’s insane.

nekretaal.6485:

Lily.1935:

It wouldn’t be unique. Both the engineer and Elementalist already do this in spades. It wouldn’t make us desired for groups either because 2 blast finishers isn’t enough to get into the zerker might meta.

And, duh, that’s why it would be a completely unique playstyle. No fire fields & only 2 blasts means that you do not have the playstyle of the engi/ele zerker might meta.

I’ve heard this before: putting a blast on a profession does not turn it into an elementalist. Everybody can blast. Minions can blast.

Remember that axe is 66% single target only. So, if you could blast your own fields for AoE effects that vary according to the field, you’ve got an interesting tool to use with proper setup.

Plus the necromancer has it’s unique dark fields (and chill on blind trait which could very useful), and you have something different and new.

Axe does nerf your shroud damage (and being able to un nerf your damage by taking a trait is not a fix). It shoud be a support weapon & it’s base skills (all of them) should hit harder if you spec damage

Nothing you don’t already have with the Staff. Also the whirl finisher would be more interesting and useful for us. It would do more for us than a blast finisher. Whirl through Spectral wall for confusion, corrosive poison cloud for poison, one of our many dark fields for life stealing, Executioner’s Scythe’s ice field for chilling bolts.

nekretaal.6485:

Just increase the damage and put a blast on 3.

No need to reinvent the wheel here.

‘reinventing’ assumes it works in the first place in this situation.

I am with Lily on this. Reaper Shroud, shouts, and GS will marginalize axe even further than it is.

Necromancer has a lot of weapons that support power builds with only scepter and staff (maybe) supporting condition damage builds.

That is why I favor reworking axe into a close range hybrid power condition damage weapon so it has a niche to fill, again.

Axe with vulnerability stacking is fine I’m solo MM or small groups without the Reaper line where vulnerability stacks do not cap but this line of caveats is becoming longer every year.

Axe needs something to make it special and a damaging condition would do that.

Anchoku.8142:

I am with Lily on this. Reaper Shroud, shouts, and GS will marginalize axe even further than it is.

Necromancer has a lot of weapons that support power builds with only scepter and staff (maybe) supporting condition damage builds.

That is why I favor reworking axe into a close range hybrid power condition damage weapon so it has a niche to fill, again.

Axe with vulnerability stacking is fine I’m solo MM or small groups without the Reaper line where vulnerability stacks do not cap but this line of caveats is becoming longer every year.

Axe needs something to make it special and a damaging condition would do that.

Axe used to be a valuable weapon for a hybrid build because of its ghastly claws. With the 66% on Barbed precision it could get a decent amount of bleeds in a short burst. Though since that was nerfed its lost even more of its utility since then.

Anchoku.8142:

I am with Lily on this. Reaper Shroud, shouts, and GS will marginalize axe even further than it is.

Necromancer has a lot of weapons that support power builds with only scepter and staff (maybe) supporting condition damage builds.

That is why I favor reworking axe into a close range hybrid power condition damage weapon so it has a niche to fill, again.

Axe with vulnerability stacking is fine I’m solo MM or small groups without the Reaper line where vulnerability stacks do not cap but this line of caveats is becoming longer every year.

Axe needs something to make it special and a damaging condition would do that.

how about add slow to the auto attack and make it a chain auto attack

Would really be nice if axe had like a pull or something. Or maybe make focus have a pull on reaper’s touch? That’d require some reworking though of that ability.

I’m with Jekkt. Make it 900 range, give it a damage increase across the board, and turn #3 into something more useful. An AE knockback for example would be quite pleasant. It would also fit with Spiteful Spirit.

I would prefer #3 to stay a boon hate skill make it corrupt 2 boons instead of 1,transfer the cripple to #2 per hit,increase #1 damage,fix it’s animation and of course increase their range to 900. Putting axe and scepter #3 at 10 sec would be highly appreciated don’t forget reduce cast times on Spinal Shivers.

• 900 range
• Axe 3 is a blast finisher (works with Spiteful Spirit)
• Axe 1 attack speed increased by 15%.

This is really all the weapon needs to be valuable. The following two are nice-to-haves.

• Axe 2 AOE increased by ~30 radius.
• Axe 1 animation made attractive (purely aesthetic, but come on!)

While we’re at it, let’s make Unholy Fervor apply its damage bonus to any weapon.

ok so almsot all agree it need to be 900 range power increase around 40-50% and skill 3 remaind almost ast it is just a buff skill 2 need to be faster and reduced recharge and add a finisher so this leaves axe 1

how about make it a chain of 3 apply vulne cripple I would like to head more ideas torment perhaps let me know =]

Brokensunday.4098:

ok so almsot all agree it need to be 900 range power increase around 40-50% and skill 3 remaind almost ast it is just a buff skill 2 need to be faster and reduced recharge and add a finisher so this leaves axe 1

how about make it a chain of 3 apply vulne cripple I would like to head more ideas torment perhaps let me know =]

No, thats what you want to believe what it needs. What the weapon needs is a real identity and 900 range will not solve its problem. Neither will giving it 40-50% damage boost. The issues with the axe are not just in the axe but our traits themselves. The axe’s damage is comparable to other weapons at face value. When taking into account the traits we have available that percentage you’re throwing around is a worthless number since a flat stat boost in our traits would go allot further.

You have to think multi-dimensionally with these suggestions. How would this impact the other weapons? How would this impact the use of something like Death shroud or Reaper’s shroud? 40-50% puts its damage at way above that of the greatsword and dagger. Which isn’t something that anyone truthfully wants and its absolutely terrible game design.

You’re all in agreement without thinking about the consequences to your band-aid fix to a horribly broken weapon when its not entirely the weapon’s fault.

Anchoku.8142:

I am with Lily on this. Reaper Shroud, shouts, and GS will marginalize axe even further than it is.

Necromancer has a lot of weapons that support power builds with only scepter and staff (maybe) supporting condition damage builds.

That is why I favor reworking axe into a close range hybrid power condition damage weapon so it has a niche to fill, again.

Axe with vulnerability stacking is fine I’m solo MM or small groups without the Reaper line where vulnerability stacks do not cap but this line of caveats is becoming longer every year.

Axe needs something to make it special and a damaging condition would do that.

A lot of power build weapons? There’s Dagger, Greatsword, and some offhands that can be useful with any spec.

Captain Unusual.9163:

Anchoku.8142:

I am with Lily on this. Reaper Shroud, shouts, and GS will marginalize axe even further than it is.

Necromancer has a lot of weapons that support power builds with only scepter and staff (maybe) supporting condition damage builds.

That is why I favor reworking axe into a close range hybrid power condition damage weapon so it has a niche to fill, again.

Axe with vulnerability stacking is fine I’m solo MM or small groups without the Reaper line where vulnerability stacks do not cap but this line of caveats is becoming longer every year.

Axe needs something to make it special and a damaging condition would do that.

A lot of power build weapons? There’s Dagger, Greatsword, and some offhands that can be useful with any spec.

Staff, death shroud, dagger, warhorn, focus, axe, greatsword and reaper’s shroud are all useful to power and really good for power excluding Axe.

Off hand Dagger and scepter are the only condition weapons. Staff is decent as a hybrid weapon but its best for spacing which is useful to both power and condi.

out of 8 weapons and the 2 shrouds 7/10ths are power, 1/10th is both and 2/10ths are pure condition. Not including traits that attempt to make shrouds into a condi weapon that basically says yeah, its mostly power.

Lily.1935:

Brokensunday.4098:

ok so almsot all agree it need to be 900 range power increase around 40-50% and skill 3 remaind almost ast it is just a buff skill 2 need to be faster and reduced recharge and add a finisher so this leaves axe 1

how about make it a chain of 3 apply vulne cripple I would like to head more ideas torment perhaps let me know =]

No, thats what you want to believe what it needs. What the weapon needs is a real identity and 900 range will not solve its problem. Neither will giving it 40-50% damage boost. The issues with the axe are not just in the axe but our traits themselves. The axe’s damage is comparable to other weapons at face value. When taking into account the traits we have available that percentage you’re throwing around is a worthless number since a flat stat boost in our traits would go allot further.

You have to think multi-dimensionally with these suggestions. How would this impact the other weapons? How would this impact the use of something like Death shroud or Reaper’s shroud? 40-50% puts its damage at way above that of the greatsword and dagger. Which isn’t something that anyone truthfully wants and its absolutely terrible game design.

You’re all in agreement without thinking about the consequences to your band-aid fix to a horribly broken weapon when its not entirely the weapon’s fault.

if you look what we have:
dagger=power
scepter=condi
axe= power wannabe
gs=power aoe
staff= condi utility
right now we lack a power wep at range axe was designed to do that I don’t mind if they make axe a hybrid but axe for power right now make more sense and it will have better synergy for reaper because it lack that range attack maybe in other spec we can have sword to be our close range condi wep i dont know
with the changes that most people agree you only put axe on a par with dagger and gs but still dagger will be better for brust and gs for aoe cleave a 50% buff to axe auto will make it around 315 and is still lower than dagger that is a fast wep I agree with you some traits need to change for axe

Brokensunday.4098:

Lily.1935:

Brokensunday.4098:

ok so almsot all agree it need to be 900 range power increase around 40-50% and skill 3 remaind almost ast it is just a buff skill 2 need to be faster and reduced recharge and add a finisher so this leaves axe 1

how about make it a chain of 3 apply vulne cripple I would like to head more ideas torment perhaps let me know =]

No, thats what you want to believe what it needs. What the weapon needs is a real identity and 900 range will not solve its problem. Neither will giving it 40-50% damage boost. The issues with the axe are not just in the axe but our traits themselves. The axe’s damage is comparable to other weapons at face value. When taking into account the traits we have available that percentage you’re throwing around is a worthless number since a flat stat boost in our traits would go allot further.

You have to think multi-dimensionally with these suggestions. How would this impact the other weapons? How would this impact the use of something like Death shroud or Reaper’s shroud? 40-50% puts its damage at way above that of the greatsword and dagger. Which isn’t something that anyone truthfully wants and its absolutely terrible game design.

You’re all in agreement without thinking about the consequences to your band-aid fix to a horribly broken weapon when its not entirely the weapon’s fault.

if you look what we have:
dagger=power
scepter=condi
axe= power wannabe
gs=power aoe
staff= condi utility
right now we lack a power wep at range axe was designed to do that I don’t mind if they make axe a hybrid but axe for power right now make more sense and it will have better synergy for reaper because it lack that range attack maybe in other spec we can have sword to be our close range condi wep i dont know
with the changes that most people agree you only put axe on a par with dagger and gs but still dagger will be better for brust and gs for aoe cleave a 50% buff to axe auto will make it around 315 and is still lower than dagger that is a fast wep I agree with you some traits need to change for axe

The axe should be a shotgun weapon. What it currently isn’t. My suggestion would make the axe into a shotgun weapon. Adding the corruption to its auto, even if its not a direct conversion would make it into a pressure shotgun weapon. Which is a playstyle in our weapons that would be an extremely welcome addition to our kitten nal.

Increasing its range doesn’t do what you think it does. It doesn’t give it identity. It turns it into a power version of Scepter. And I want to like the two weapons for their uniqueness not being mirrored of each other. The axe was designed around the 600 range. From granting retaliation, to its ofhand partner weapons, to its aoe.

If its to gain range, Unholy feast needs to completely change. And the auto attack needs to completely change anyway. So you’re still looking at a complete redesign of the weapon where a flat damage buff is a completely useless concept.

Axe is a midrange weapon! This is where its supposed to shine. This was its intention! Save the Long range power for an elite specialization. We still need space for elite specs and high ranged support isn’t something that the axe shouldn’t rob from potential from the future.

I think we need to keep changes simple yet effective. Some have already stated this.
We can start making up really nice things and all, but they either completely miss the point or are over the top strong.

I think 900 range would put give it the distance where dps lower than dagger is an acceptable tradeoff. (It would still need a dps increase or rather speed increase, but not as large as people seem to think, you don’t want a ranged weapon to do more damage than a melee one).
That would mean that the #3 skill needs redesigning (or this skill would have to keep the shorter range), but IMO it needed that anyway.

I think what Rising Dusk has summed is a fair start. I don’t think you’d want to really put any kind of weird condition damage on it.

Another thing I’d might like is to swap the LF generation and Vulnerability between #1 and #2. The reason being that having LF generation on such an easy to counter skill is rough on the weapon, and I also think that Vuln would benefit from being applied as a burst skill (like ranger Rapid Fire), as it makes the weapon better in a weapon swap situation. E.g. While being kited: quickly swap to axe, burst the vulnerability on someone, cripple him and swap back to dagger.

Brokensunday, I agree there is also a weapon gap in ranged singe-target power damage but axe is not built for that. Look at Warrior’s rifle for skills that do not overlap too much with staff.

Axe, on the other hand, would probably face a damage reduction if it’s range were increased. Axe would be fine if vulnerability was a rare condition in the game. It builds LF quickly, cripples, corrupts boons, and generates retaliation. It works great in MM builds. It is just that vulnerability is so easily capped and axe must compete with dagger and greatsword for the power weapon role and cannot substitute for staff as utility support.

Lily.1935:

Staff, death shroud, dagger, warhorn, focus, axe, greatsword and reaper’s shroud are all useful to power and really good for power excluding Axe.

Off hand Dagger and scepter are the only condition weapons. Staff is decent as a hybrid weapon but its best for spacing which is useful to both power and condi.

out of 8 weapons and the 2 shrouds 7/10ths are power, 1/10th is both and 2/10ths are pure condition. Not including traits that attempt to make shrouds into a condi weapon that basically says yeah, its mostly power.

I agree that we need a condition weapon. But I don’t think axe should be that weapon. Axe would make a great ranged power weapon, which is another category that we miss.

Brokensunday.4098:

if you look what we have:
dagger=power
scepter=condi
axe= power wannabe
gs=power aoe
staff= condi utility

Staff is a universal weapon. It works nearly as well for power heavy builds as it does for condition builds. And that is fine, because we already got scepter as a (long) range condition damage weapon.

IMO the solution to condition damage doesn’t lie with axe though. That would make us end up with 2 ranged condi weapons and 2 melee power weapons.
I think a better distribution of the weapons would be if dagger got changed to be a condition weapon.
That way you end up with:

Dagger = Melee range condition applier (I’m sure we can think of fun ideas for this)
GS = Melee range power cleave weapon
Axe = Ranged power weapon
Scepter = Ranged Condi weapon
Staff = Universal / All-round / Utility weapon.

The idea to make axe a hybrid condition/power weapon is nice as well. But my experience learns that these kind of hybrid weapons and hybrid skills tend to suffer because they’re inefficient for either. The “jack of all trades, master of none”-problem.

Also, could someone please explain how increasing the range and damage is justifiable? The suggestion sounds a lot like a request for dagger damage at the same range as scepter so please explain how that is not remotely true.

Lily.1935:

Brokensunday.4098:

Lily.1935:

Brokensunday.4098:

ok so almsot all agree it need to be 900 range power increase around 40-50% and skill 3 remaind almost ast it is just a buff skill 2 need to be faster and reduced recharge and add a finisher so this leaves axe 1

how about make it a chain of 3 apply vulne cripple I would like to head more ideas torment perhaps let me know =]

No, thats what you want to believe what it needs. What the weapon needs is a real identity and 900 range will not solve its problem. Neither will giving it 40-50% damage boost. The issues with the axe are not just in the axe but our traits themselves. The axe’s damage is comparable to other weapons at face value. When taking into account the traits we have available that percentage you’re throwing around is a worthless number since a flat stat boost in our traits would go allot further.

You have to think multi-dimensionally with these suggestions. How would this impact the other weapons? How would this impact the use of something like Death shroud or Reaper’s shroud? 40-50% puts its damage at way above that of the greatsword and dagger. Which isn’t something that anyone truthfully wants and its absolutely terrible game design.

You’re all in agreement without thinking about the consequences to your band-aid fix to a horribly broken weapon when its not entirely the weapon’s fault.

if you look what we have:
dagger=power
scepter=condi
axe= power wannabe
gs=power aoe
staff= condi utility
right now we lack a power wep at range axe was designed to do that I don’t mind if they make axe a hybrid but axe for power right now make more sense and it will have better synergy for reaper because it lack that range attack maybe in other spec we can have sword to be our close range condi wep i dont know
with the changes that most people agree you only put axe on a par with dagger and gs but still dagger will be better for brust and gs for aoe cleave a 50% buff to axe auto will make it around 315 and is still lower than dagger that is a fast wep I agree with you some traits need to change for axe

The axe should be a shotgun weapon. What it currently isn’t. My suggestion would make the axe into a shotgun weapon. Adding the corruption to its auto, even if its not a direct conversion would make it into a pressure shotgun weapon. Which is a playstyle in our weapons that would be an extremely welcome addition to our kitten nal.

Increasing its range doesn’t do what you think it does. It doesn’t give it identity. It turns it into a power version of Scepter. And I want to like the two weapons for their uniqueness not being mirrored of each other. The axe was designed around the 600 range. From granting retaliation, to its ofhand partner weapons, to its aoe.

If its to gain range, Unholy feast needs to completely change. And the auto attack needs to completely change anyway. So you’re still looking at a complete redesign of the weapon where a flat damage buff is a completely useless concept.

Axe is a midrange weapon! This is where its supposed to shine. This was its intention! Save the Long range power for an elite specialization. We still need space for elite specs and high ranged support isn’t something that the axe shouldn’t rob from potential from the future.

Don’t get me wrong I like the idea of corrupting boon even if is 1 on the auto attack don’t know sound kind of op but I like it
But right now axe is so bad is bad at close range and at a far is almost useless and necro is in need of a power range wep and make sense to be axe
Any way let’s keep the ideas flowing maybe we can give Robert some inspiration so they can make axe a good weapon of all of us to have fun =]

Nyth.3492:

Lily.1935:

Staff, death shroud, dagger, warhorn, focus, axe, greatsword and reaper’s shroud are all useful to power and really good for power excluding Axe.

Off hand Dagger and scepter are the only condition weapons. Staff is decent as a hybrid weapon but its best for spacing which is useful to both power and condi.

out of 8 weapons and the 2 shrouds 7/10ths are power, 1/10th is both and 2/10ths are pure condition. Not including traits that attempt to make shrouds into a condi weapon that basically says yeah, its mostly power.

I agree that we need a condition weapon. But I don’t think axe should be that weapon. Axe would make a great ranged power weapon, which is another category that we miss.

Brokensunday.4098:

if you look what we have:
dagger=power
scepter=condi
axe= power wannabe
gs=power aoe
staff= condi utility

Staff is a universal weapon. It works nearly as well for power heavy builds as it does for condition builds. And that is fine, because we already got scepter as a (long) range condition damage weapon.

IMO the solution to condition damage doesn’t lie with axe though. That would make us end up with 2 ranged condi weapons and 2 melee power weapons.
I think a better distribution of the weapons would be if dagger got changed to be a condition weapon.
That way you end up with:

Dagger = Melee range condition applier (I’m sure we can think of fun ideas for this)
GS = Melee range power cleave weapon
Axe = Ranged power weapon
Scepter = Ranged Condi weapon
Staff = Universal / All-round / Utility weapon.

The idea to make axe a hybrid condition/power weapon is nice as well. But my experience learns that these kind of hybrid weapons and hybrid skills tend to suffer because they’re inefficient for either. The “jack of all trades, master of none”-problem.

Yes staff work for condi and power thats why i love it i use it on all my build’s
axe need to be the range power wep but leve dagger as it is the power brust wep remember we dont have sword yet so it can be the close range condi wep we lack maybe next expansion =]

Nyth.3492:

I agree that we need a condition weapon. But I don’t think axe should be that weapon. Axe would make a great ranged power weapon, which is another category that we miss.

that wasn’t what I was getting at. With my suggestion it gives it hybrid potential without actually making it into a hybrid weapon. This is an important distinction that we need to make. It would still be high power but with its double hit at melee range like I’ve suggested it gains powerful synergy with barbed precision as well as melee range attack with aoe fields. Its boon corruption is universally useful but gain increased effectiveness in a hybrid play style.

Hybrid potential doesn’t equal hybrid weapon or condition weapon.

Keeping this as a midrange weapon doesn’t force it to be changed in its initial function. Increasing its range doesn’t give the weapon an identity and leaves it open to just be outclassed by an elite specialization weapon later in the future that was designed from the ground up to be a long ranged power weapon. Which at that point we’d be back to square one with the axe having the exact same problem it has now.

Nyth.3492:

The idea to make axe a hybrid condition/power weapon is nice as well. But my experience learns that these kind of hybrid weapons and hybrid skills tend to suffer because they’re inefficient for either. The “jack of all trades, master of none”-problem.

Grenade kit says “whats up”.

Brokensunday.4098:

Don’t get me wrong I like the idea of corrupting boon even if is 1 on the auto attack don’t know sound kind of op but I like it
But right now axe is so bad is bad at close range and at a far is almost useless and necro is in need of a power range wep and make sense to be axe
Any way let’s keep the ideas flowing maybe we can give Robert some inspiration so they can make axe a good weapon of all of us to have fun =]

It might be if its a direct conversion. But if its converted into something like 2-3 stacks of valn it might not be. But that’s not as interesting imo. Its hard to say if it would be over powered since we haven’t had a weapon quite like that before. Corrupting boons outside of well of corruption and Corrupt boon is a rather interesting concept and Arena net wants this sort of boon hate to be well locked into the necromancer’s identity. The axe just seems like the perfect candidate for this sort of concept.

To be entirely honest:

I actually liked ax/focus + GS for reaper(blighter’s boon based build), and I don’t think a complete rewrite of ax is necessary.

That said, the only purpose of ax/focus was to start with focus 5, get a focus 4 off(+ might and can rely on a crit from chilling nova for more might), get ax 2 off, and then switch to GS and either go into reaper or stay there(GS-3/4/2/2/2/…), since gravedigger only needs to hit one guy below 50% to get the CD reduction.

Ax 1 was only ever used when I screwed up and both swap and RS were on CD. Even then, it was only used if I thought it was going to die before anything worthwhile came off CD. Otherwise it is simply a better idea to run away and wait for something better.

Ax 3 was never used except to tag things.

Ax 1 should have greater range and more damage, not as high as dagger AA, enough that it should it preferred over simply running away and waiting for a better option.
I am aware that it’s ability to ignore reflects is considered OP in Anet.

Ax 2: Add a whirl finisher, but keep the non-AoE attack itself as is.

Ax 3: to a well or mark that positions on the initial player position and is a dark field. Add blind.

Lily.1935:

Nyth.3492:

The idea to make axe a hybrid condition/power weapon is nice as well. But my experience learns that these kind of hybrid weapons and hybrid skills tend to suffer because they’re inefficient for either. The “jack of all trades, master of none”-problem.

Grenade kit says “whats up”.

Grenade kit has seen it’s fair share of troubles as well due to this.

I’m not saying it’s not possible though. As you say, the distinction between hybrid weapon and a weapon with hybrid potential is huge.
Necro staff is actually a decent example of a weapon that thrives pretty well with both kind of builds.

I’m just worried that getting a weapon that works with both ends us up with skills that do neither really well, or a weapon where you’ll only use 1-2 skills depending on your setup.
In the same way that Scepter #3 is a bit of an odd thing, because it’s on a condition weapon but really doesn’t TOO well for a condition build that doesn’t use sinister.

Either way. I like the idea of a shotgun axe variation or something. But we’d still be without ranged power weapons and we could desperately use one. Either that or ANet suddenly sees the light about how necro’s aren’t really all that tanky as they believe we are. Because power necro really only has short range options and we lack both the defense as well as offensive powers that other classes do seem to have.

Lily.1935:

Brokensunday.4098:

Don’t get me wrong I like the idea of corrupting boon even if is 1 on the auto attack don’t know sound kind of op but I like it
But right now axe is so bad is bad at close range and at a far is almost useless and necro is in need of a power range wep and make sense to be axe
Any way let’s keep the ideas flowing maybe we can give Robert some inspiration so they can make axe a good weapon of all of us to have fun =]

It might be if its a direct conversion. But if its converted into something like 2-3 stacks of valn it might not be. But that’s not as interesting imo. Its hard to say if it would be over powered since we haven’t had a weapon quite like that before. Corrupting boons outside of well of corruption and Corrupt boon is a rather interesting concept and Arena net wants this sort of boon hate to be well locked into the necromancer’s identity. The axe just seems like the perfect candidate for this sort of concept.

now that you say this what if instead of corrupting the boon it steals and give it to us only in the third skill of the chain rending claws apply vulne tearing claws apply cripple and wraith claws steals a boon

Something I find ironic is that, with the trait rework, axe stacks vulnerability faster than it ever has, before, and Reaper gets NCSY shout and Decimate Defenses but we still have to deal with the cap.

Go to the Wiki and look at “vulnerability” to see just how much it is used. Arenanet could trim it across-the-board and just increase weapon damage to compensate. Does every profession need to spam it?

Klaeljanus.7695:

To be entirely honest:

I actually liked ax/focus + GS for reaper(blighter’s boon based build), and I don’t think a complete rewrite of ax is necessary.

That said, the only purpose of ax/focus was to start with focus 5, get a focus 4 off(+ might and can rely on a crit from chilling nova for more might), get ax 2 off, and then switch to GS and either go into reaper or stay there(GS-3/4/2/2/2/…), since gravedigger only needs to hit one guy below 50% to get the CD reduction.

Ax 1 was only ever used when I screwed up and both swap and RS were on CD. Even then, it was only used if I thought it was going to die before anything worthwhile came off CD. Otherwise it is simply a better idea to run away and wait for something better.

Ax 3 was never used except to tag things.

Ax 1 should have greater range and more damage, not as high as dagger AA, enough that it should it preferred over simply running away and waiting for a better option.
I am aware that it’s ability to ignore reflects is considered OP in Anet.

Ax 2: Add a whirl finisher, but keep the non-AoE attack itself as is.

Ax 3: to a well or mark that positions on the initial player position and is a dark field. Add blind.

Back before the change to the animation I used Axe with focus allot since focus could be used to chill and as I closed the gap Reaper’s Touch was great as it still worked at long range it rewarded you for getting close. Which made it an excellent partner for axe.

Lily.1935:

Nyth.3492:

The idea to make axe a hybrid condition/power weapon is nice as well. But my experience learns that these kind of hybrid weapons and hybrid skills tend to suffer because they’re inefficient for either. The “jack of all trades, master of none”-problem.

Grenade kit says “whats up”.

That one’s balanced by being an absolute kitten to use for long periods of time.

Captain Unusual.9163:

Lily.1935:

Nyth.3492:

The idea to make axe a hybrid condition/power weapon is nice as well. But my experience learns that these kind of hybrid weapons and hybrid skills tend to suffer because they’re inefficient for either. The “jack of all trades, master of none”-problem.

Grenade kit says “whats up”.

That one’s balanced by being an absolute kitten to use for long periods of time.

Its hard to use, but beastly once you learn how to. I’ve learned how to use it and its a blast[no pun intended] to use. Its also not the only example of good hybrid weapons. Torch on Guardian is technically a hybrid weapon. And that one is great to use.