Guild Wars 2

Blighters Boon obviously isn’t as good what it was pre-nerf, but let’s be honest, pre-nerf BB was difficult balance and gauge how good it actually was.

Lets say you were in a solo situation, and you primarily relied on allies to buff you, pre-nerf BB would be weak compared to post-nerf BB. Vice versa obviously applies when you are in a team situations, which is where things got ridiculous, with spike LF gain and healing.

I think the issue is that people have a mentality that BB should work in a way that gets you from 0-100, whether it is LF or HP when you are either in or out of shroud in the interval of time between shroud, or else BB sucks.

I don’t think that’s the case. I think the mentality should be;

BB in shroud only needs to give you enough health back such that when you exit shroud your heal is off cooldown, which after usage, will bring you back up to 80%-100% HP, i.e. resetting the fight (or enough HP to survive until shroud CD runs out). Conversely, while out of shroud, BB should help you gain enough LF so that you can DPS and wait out til your non-shroud CDs run out.

In this respect, BB is actually quite sufficient. BB with either Unholy Sanctuary or Vampiric Presence achieves the above healing very well.

The main issues with BB is actually how constricting it is. I’ve purposely only used BB post-nerf to make it work and the reality is, Spite is definitely required. I’ve been running with a cleric’s amulet in PvP and I’d say the results are quite good. What you essentially get is a tough attrition bunker build that can hold points very well, but also dish out enough damage to kill assaulters, purely because there is so much sustain.

Theres been some great suggestions on the forum on how to buff BB, but personally I don’t think BB needs to have the ally interaction it had before, since it will always have an uncertain mechanic in it which relies heavily on allies that buff, or somewhat of a more complex ICD mechanic. I think it’d be nice if BB was buffed so that curses can work into BB as well.

TLDR; buff curses please.

The problem is Blighter’s Boon was obviously designed with and mandatory for teamfighting Reapers to function. With the trait as it currently is, it is pretty awful for anything short of very small fights, the exact opposite use of the builds that needed it the most; teamfighters. So sure, if you used it for 1v1 its slightly buffed, but the trait was never designed for those, and 1v1 builds didn’t need BB, they’ve had good sustain for ages. Necromancer needed a teamfighting sustain trait, and it was removed NOT because it was too strong on its own, but because two specific NON NECROMANCER builds made the trait OP, and in every other situation it was working just fine. So cool, Herald crapped out 10 boons every 3s, better nerf Necromancer.

And no, you shouldn’t need 2-3 trait lines just for a bunker to function. No one else has to use up every single tree and GM just to not die in teamfights.

I agree with what you say, BB is constricting playstyles and such, but of the 3 grandmaster traits, if someone wanted more sustain, it is more or less the most sustain-based GM option there is.

Yes, the problem is for a sustain-granting GM, it doesn’t actually do its job except in very small combat.

Hey Bhawb, are you making another But of Corpse anytime soon?

Ramoth.9064:

Hey Bhawb, are you making another But of Corpse anytime soon?

Too busy with HoT, I’m sure :p

Also it heals more then it should (tooltip says 165 but i get 192 heals). Well since the devs read this subforum, i guess i dont have to bug report it…

Muchacho.2390:

Also it heals more then it should (tooltip says 165 but i get 192 heals). Well since the devs read this subforum, i guess i dont have to bug report it…

I think it scales with healing power is why

Ramoth.9064:

Muchacho.2390:

Also it heals more then it should (tooltip says 165 but i get 192 heals). Well since the devs read this subforum, i guess i dont have to bug report it…

I think it scales with healing power is why

I have zero healingpower in the build the numbers are from.^^

Muchacho.2390:

Ramoth.9064:

Muchacho.2390:

Also it heals more then it should (tooltip says 165 but i get 192 heals). Well since the devs read this subforum, i guess i dont have to bug report it…

I think it scales with healing power is why

I have zero healingpower in the build the numbers are from.^^

How about the base healing power?

Ramoth.9064:

Muchacho.2390:

Ramoth.9064:

Muchacho.2390:

Also it heals more then it should (tooltip says 165 but i get 192 heals). Well since the devs read this subforum, i guess i dont have to bug report it…

I think it scales with healing power is why

I have zero healingpower in the build the numbers are from.^^

How about the base healing power?

Base healing power is always zero so if i dont have any healing power the obvious answer would be zero…

Also the discussion about healing power is pointless, since healing power changes the tooltip (and the actually healing). So the only conclusion i can come up with is that the tooltip has a different formal then the actual heals.

Muchacho.2390:

Ramoth.9064:

Muchacho.2390:

Ramoth.9064:

Muchacho.2390:

Also it heals more then it should (tooltip says 165 but i get 192 heals). Well since the devs read this subforum, i guess i dont have to bug report it…

I think it scales with healing power is why

I have zero healingpower in the build the numbers are from.^^

How about the base healing power?

Base healing power is always zero so if i dont have any healing power the obvious answer would be zero…

You are right.

BB was a teamfight oriented gm trait that was good and did exactly what necs need in teamfights. Gave great lf generation and healing while in shroud. Axing this trait to what it’s current state is totally goes against what we were trying to get out of in the first place, being a selfish class with minor team synergy.

…but deathly chill is way better.
for condi

Been running BB on a power reaper for around a week now in the jungle.

Best used with buff shouts and elite shout, you will never run out of Life Force. Healing in shroud is almost negligible though. Still unsure if the life for regen is worth than loss in 15% attack speed and extra cooldowns for shroud.

It’s o-kay. That’s about I could say about it.

Bhawb.7408:

And no, you shouldn’t need 2-3 trait lines just for a bunker to function. No one else has to use up every single tree and GM just to not die in teamfights.

Well, that’s not strictly true. No Elementalist without both Water and Arcane is going to survive very long against competent opponents. It’s actually a serious problem for their build diversity.

So it seems that the problem was that Blighters Boon was too strong in team fights, but fairly balanced / possibly too weak in solo play, so they removed the team fight aspect and buffed solo play, which is how necro always gets treated. Instead, they should have buffed the numbers for heals received from self-boons, and nerfed the numbers for heals received from other player boons without fully removing them. It’s not as if the game can’t differentiate the two (they basically did this already, boons received from other sources just result in 0 healing instead of x>0 healing).

Blighter’s Boon isnt the “team-friendly” GM trait it was and u cant rely on it as Solo Trait: it needs help from other traits quite bad nowdays from both Spite & Reaper.

Is it GM-Trait worthy (yes i know u specc full line now)? NO it isnt

I think I might be the only one who agreed with the change to BB. I’m surprised they let it through in the first place.

Imagine if some other class, like Guardian, had a trait where they gained 100 health any time a condition was applied to an enemy in some radius around them, like 600. You put them with any class that spams conditions hard, like a Condi Necro, and suddenly they are gaining insane life.

Is that the Condi Necro’s fault? Should we nerf the Condi Necro in that instance, because Guardian gets some silly amount of synergy?

No.

Then again, I personally think both condi and boon application is too far down the rabbit hole right now, but modifying both is an enormous balance undertaking that I don’t foresee happening ever. Alas.

You can rely on it just fine as a solo trait if you trait for it, in my opinion. Chilling Victory synergizes really well with it, and in a PvP scenario where you might not be able to keep/reliably stack Vuln as well, foregoing Decimate Defenses doesn’t feel as “painful” (in my opinion).

I think the change it recieved is because of raids and how much it would do for a Necro in one, above all. Both scaling up the LF gen and the sustain (both through LF and hp gain) in a significant manner, potentially creating imbalances… just guessing though

Regardless while it’s cool with synergy i think there is just a too crazy amount of boon applications to tie it to that without an ICD nightmare. I’d love if they kept it something as is but maybe adjusted it if it needs to. Not convinced yet since Necro has so many sources to trait for regen, and they can add up if you actually do it.

Ramoth.9064:

Hey Bhawb, are you making another But of Corpse anytime soon?

I’m planning on it, I was just swamped with midterms for a while, and now that I have a break I have to get plat in League before the season ends. I want to give myself a solid week of really playing HoT a decent amount before I make a BoC since atm all the playtime I’ve put in was just screwing around in Mad King. Stuff like being able to test out Blighter’s Boon a lot to see how I really feel about it, and if Chilling Victory might be able to “make up” some of the difference.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Too busy with HoT, I’m sure :p

I wish.

I use blighter’s boon over reaper’s onslaught in the jungle because I’m a scrub and I need every bit of extra sustain I can get.

So…yeah.

How was Blighter’s Boon changed? I think I missed something.

Its bad because it pigeonholes us into running Spite on builds that don’t necessarily want to run spite.

I’d revisit my opinion if death magic had more boons than 3s protection leaving death shroud, or if curses had more than 5s fury when entering deathshroud, or if blood magic and soul reaping had any boons to begin with besides mark of evasion and last gasp procs but yeah, I’d rather have them just give us some brand new GM trait altogether if they refuse to balance it appropriately.

I mean a 1 second ICD on the original effect probably would have been fine.

Mallis.4295:

How was Blighter’s Boon changed? I think I missed something.

Your allies can no longer proc it at all, only the Necromancer’s own boons can grant LF/heal. In return for losing a massive amount of its teamfighting strength, we got an extremely mediocre buff to the heal.

nearlight.3064:

I mean a 1 second ICD on the original effect probably would have been fine.

If they changed the values quite a bit. If not, it would have been a worse Unholy Sanctuary and would remove any sort of synergy with our/their multi-boon causing abilities.

The post nerf Blighters Boon makes no sense and is contradictory to the necromancer playstyle. We even have utilities that apply conditions to ourselves, not boons.

Maybe the balance team had eles or guardians or engies or revenants in mind?!?!

It’s a selfish trait based on our own actions. That seems just like the necromancer design and playstyle, outside of Blood Magic.

Vapour.7348:

The post nerf Blighters Boon makes no sense and is contradictory to the necromancer playstyle. We even have utilities that apply conditions to ourselves, not boons.

Maybe the balance team had eles or guardians or engies or revenants in mind?!?!

We have a bunch of traits that give us free might.

Bhawb.7408:

Mallis.4295:

How was Blighter’s Boon changed? I think I missed something.

Your allies can no longer proc it at all, only the Necromancer’s own boons can grant LF/heal. In return for losing a massive amount of its teamfighting strength, we got an extremely mediocre buff to the heal.

The scaling is pretty bad, too. With full Crusader’s weapons/armor/trinkets (503 Healing Power) it only increases the healing by 9.32043204320950252% (The decimal values are hyperbole, but you get the kitten point.) This isn’t worth the decrease in availability for this trait to work. It needs either a larger buff to base healing and/or scaling, or access to more ways to proc it.

Xecil.2798:

The scaling is pretty bad, too. With full Crusader’s weapons/armor/trinkets (503 Healing Power) it only increases the healing by 9.32043204320950252% (The decimal values are hyperbole, but you get the kitten point.)

Are you taking this number from a tooltip, or from the actual healing value you’re receiving in game? I’ve noticed the tooltip was incorrect (previous to the last patch).

Tooltip. /15char

The tooltip is wrong in every situation I’ve seen it so far!

Not that your point is incorrect, but the tooltip is definitely not a reliable indicator for the actual value of BB.

I’ll check again here in a few. I’ll read the combat log.

Hmm, there appears to be something up with this, actually. I’ll post some screenshots, but it looks like when I have 0 healing power, BB is giving more healing than the tooltip. When I have 1500, the tooltip is actually right on the money.

Also, you are correct – it doesn’t scale very well at all. It goes from 192 – 215 (0 – 1525 healing power, respectively).

I too am surprised that it went unchanged for this long. Expected something like this every BWE so far.
Old BB had several problems. You weren’t able to allow Reapers to take proper advantage of it by themselves as it, together with allied boon output, would result in Reapers with far too much sustain. And yes, it worked. I tried it. An allied guardian was enough to make you immortal even in outnumbered fights while using a build that was far from optimised. This took agency away from the Reaper, which is bad while also making them far too powerful in certain situations.
And no, you can’t nerf everyone else to compensate. Because at that point you have to look at how to nerf them for necromancers only or how the nerfs affect builds and matchups for at least 3 classes. Not to mention the effect it has on potential future elite specs.
It’s only logical to remove the source of both problems and allow Reapers to control their own trait. And that’s really the only thing that’s missing here. Some more scaling boon generation is needed so that Reapers can trigger their own trait reliably without being forced into other traitlines or Chilling Victory.
Now ANet has the chance to properly balance it. Given that Chilling Nova and Soul Eater are currently somewhat lackluster, those are good places to start. Maybe even give some to Shivers of Dread to have some baseline effectiveness. Personally, I’d like to see some fury and retaliation somewhere in the Reaper set.

Dead.5829:

Hmm, there appears to be something up with this, actually. I’ll post some screenshots, but it looks like when I have 0 healing power, BB is giving more healing than the tooltip. When I have 1500, the tooltip is actually right on the money.

Also, you are correct – it doesn’t scale very well at all. It goes from 192 – 215 (0 – 1525 healing power, respectively).

This makes Quaggan sad.

Blighter’s Boon is bad now, doesn’t give enough sustain in any team fight scenarios. Tried using it in WvW ZvZ & GvG, just not worth it. Pre-nerf it was a no brainer to use BB in team fights, it gave necros something they lacked. Loving the Reaper but I don’t think I can forgive Anet for this nerf.

Pre-nerf BB, Reapers felt good in team fights. Post-nerf BB, some guilds are no longer wanting to run Reapers because there are other better sustain elite specs available.

CCLegion.5936:

It’s only logical to remove the source of both problems and allow Reapers to control their own trait. And that’s really the only thing that’s missing here. Some more scaling boon generation is needed so that Reapers can trigger their own trait reliably without being forced into other traitlines or Chilling Victory.
Now ANet has the chance to properly balance it. Given that Chilling Nova and Soul Eater are currently somewhat lackluster, those are good places to start. Maybe even give some to Shivers of Dread to have some baseline effectiveness. Personally, I’d like to see some fury and retaliation somewhere in the Reaper set.

Yeah, if Blighter’s Boon is going to go in this direction (which in concept is okay, yes its annoying allies don’t help us a ton but w/e we’re Necros get used to it) we need to have some reworks on our boon-giving things. Great news for ANet though, most of our boon-granting mechanics (or weak trait lines) are prime for changes. Spectrals as a whole are in need of work, Death Magic is a great line to set up better defensive boons (like protection), and as long as we have a decent amount of self-booning that scales according to enemies hit we’re not only fixing core issues with the profession scaling but also helping Blighter’s Boon.

I just made a dope Viper’s PvP build using BB and Strength runes that’s working pretty well. Trying to figure out how to squeeze some more self buffing but the sustain combined with the power/condi damage is quite potent. I’m dropping people a lot faster than I expect.

It needs some tweaking but I think there’s a ton of potential with Viper’s in PvP. IDK how I pulled some of those 1v1’s out of my kitten , I think I was just as surprised as my enemies were.

The real problem for me with this trait is the Might cap. The only viable boon to use with this trait is Might, but I often get 25 stacks and there are Might from allies as well which will make my own Might to not trigger.

We should get the LF/heal from Might even if we have 25 stacks.

I believe overriding stacks while capped counts towards BB, though I haven’t tested personally.

Mikau.6920:

The real problem for me with this trait is the Might cap. The only viable boon to use with this trait is Might, but I often get 25 stacks and there are Might from allies as well which will make my own Might to not trigger.

We should get the LF/heal from Might even if we have 25 stacks.

You still get LF, it only counts whether a boon is applied, and just like conditions new might overrides the old might. Also, technically any boon can work just fine. Stability for example has up to 10 stacks on CttB, 8 on Infusing Terror. Retal from UF/SS also works nicely, with up to 5 stacks each. What works is basically anything that applies multiple stacks per spell cast, which turns BB into a small heal/LF gain across many skills. It just needs to have a number of our boon-applying (and things that could be turned into such reasonably) things looked at to properly scale into multi-enemy fights, since 1v1 BB is fine.