Gutting the condimancers? (PvE)
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I’m so kittened off by this. I cannot fathom who thought these changes would be good – they could have shaved damage, application or duration, not gut the entire trait.
80 Necro (5), 80 Guard (4), 80 Mesmer (3)
80 Ranger (3), 80 Warrior (3), 80 Thief (3)
80 Ele (2), 80 Engi (3), 80 Rev (2)
80 Ranger (3), 80 Warrior (3), 80 Thief (3)
80 Ele (2), 80 Engi (3), 80 Rev (2)
That’s how Anet does things though, given their history. They always swing from one extreme to another. Yes, chill needed a nerf. I think most of us would’ve been fine with both chill damage & duration nerfs. But to gut the trait & design completely? That spells lazy balance, it spells ArenaNet balance.
To be fair, from a raiding perspective, the chill was terribly designed and I was proponent of chills adding another condition like poison instead of making chill do damage, because of chills inherent limitations…extremely often the chill trait was not actually dealing damage because of how it worked in raids. But all the other nerfs make me feel pretty bleh.
At least wells got a bump?
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At least wells got a bump?
Not sure whether to laugh or cry at that fact. A buff to our most useless proponent.
If you’ll remember, wellomancer used to be a popular and powerful build.
[EG] is recruiting!
To be fair, from a raiding perspective, the chill was terribly designed and I was proponent of chills adding another condition like poison instead of making chill do damage, because of chills inherent limitations…extremely often the chill trait was not actually dealing damage because of how it worked in raids.
Yes I also realize this problem, but you have to agree that the replacement we got now is pretty terrible..
Don’t worry! With this nerf, the next elite spec will be amazing in comparison! Until, it’s gutted and the process can repeat! All aboard the necro-coaster!
Yeah, I agree with that. What sucks about stacking necros in raids is without an engi or something providing something like burns, epidemics are pretty iffy because you’re only passing 25 bleed stacks and whatever poison and torment happen to be on the target. Still very strong, but don’t pack nearly the punch of passing 8k burns over. But I guess that’s one way of balancing an OP ability like Epidemic, by forcing a more well rounded comp.
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If you’ll remember, wellomancer used to be a popular and powerful build.
Sadly, yes – but Chill damage from deathly swarm + deathly chill was the most fun i’d had with my necromancer in years and once again Anet really drops the ball.
To be fair, from a raiding perspective, the chill was terribly designed and I was proponent of chills adding another condition like poison instead of making chill do damage, because of chills inherent limitations…extremely often the chill trait was not actually dealing damage because of how it worked in raids.
Yes I also realize this problem, but you have to agree that the replacement we got now is pretty terrible..
It didn’t have to be. They just did it poorly. 2 stacks of Torment for 8 seconds, 2 stacks of bleed for 6, or some amount of confusion (don’t feel like doing the numbers for it) would have been great for both PVE and PVP. Would have nerfed up-front dmg in PVP but rewarded proper bursting and landing skills, and in PVE it’d be an all around fix to the problem at hand. The biggest issue is that their replacement was just poorly tuned.
High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
It’s the dumbfire cycle all over again. We will again be on the spotlight on next expansion.
It was nice while it lasted. Now let us all go back to our crypts.
I don’t why people are so offended by this change. The damage from Chill was NOT that good to begin with. That’s not to say what they changed it to was better though …
The whole rotation feels so less natural now, unless you main Necromancer you would not understand this in a PvE setting. Deathly Chill was nice because you could swing it with Dagger 4 swarm for a beautiful combo and get some damage out of doing so. Now? it’s like you apply a blind and a short duration of chill only to lose time you could have been damaging, it’s like when Blizzard removed Rend from warriors in World of Warcraft – it breaks the flow.
I play a Necro very often in PVE but I don’t understand your reasoning. You are going to get damage from Dagger 4 and Deathly chill through a long duration bleed instead of directly from the short duration chill (resulting in more damage over time that stacks with other bleeds as opposed to over time like chills). To me, that ability to get upfront stacks of bleeds is significant for PVE play because the main weakness of condi builds is the buildup you need to get the good damage from them.
Furthermore, Deathly Swarm got a reduced CD this patch, so you can apply it more often. There is literally no effect on the flow … other than the ‘problem’ of spamming Deathly Swarm MORE often.
Now, you might think 1 bleed is a little weak for a GM … but no ICD … if you apply 3 chills in the same instant, you get three bleeds and they do damage over a longer period. With the right build, you spam chills a ridiculous amount. I’m going to give it a go but just testing now, I was getting my 3 bleeds very easy on trash mobs. Can’t wait to see what I can do when I’m actually trying to apply chills.
Finally, it’s worth noting that this shared the same problem as Guaridan burns before those were fixed … overwriting other people’s damage. Damage on chill was just a bad idea.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
Guys, relax.
This change really isn’t as much of a nerf as you make it out to be. In fact, if you actually put some effort into your skill rotation you will be able to surpass the damage of the old trait.
Also, nothing is easier to cleanse now. Chilled is still there, the damage part just moved to a different condition, one that is applied a lot more frequently now. So if anything, you get better coverage for your overall condition pressure.And let’s be honest, the strongest part about chilled wasn’t the damage anyway. It’s the movement impairment and the tripled cooldowns, which still works the same.
You have ZERO idea of the scope of this change. “Put some effort into your skill rotation” What? You want me to spam 1 more and apply more bleeding? Yeah, no thanks I dropped reaper and picked up Dhuumfire already and that last part you mentioned ONLY APPLIES IN PvP – I don’t know how many people Anet thinks ACTUALLY PvP, but for me? I could give a rats kitten .
This change is DETRIMENTAL to the way Condimancer played in the raid setting – need I emphasis the raid part?
You clearly need some chill.
Why? I’m annoyed and for what was otherwise a decent patch Engineers and Necromancer’s had to suck up the sap this patch for what reasons? PvP? That’s a lame reason, a super lame reason.
And any PvE condimancer worth their salt would be mad about this change, forget mad utterally decimated.
As long as they don’t split pvp/pve, this kind of balance will happen.
While I agree it is overnerfed and it feels like an adept trait, I’m not tilted. It is not the end of the world and I have more important things to worry about.
I asked why, just 1000 times why.
I asked why, just 1000 times why.
If a reply is given, post a link here. Reddit is beyond me
I’ve long ago learned that asking “why” to ANet won’t satisfy anything. Even if they answer, its not like the change will suddenly make sense to you, or be any less bad.
Here is one answer about it https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4fjrxt/we_are_the_gw2_dev_team_here_to_chat_with_you/d29gdzd
Yep. Its not surprising that it needs changing for that reason (lol Terror), just bad implementation.
I don’t why people are so offended by this change. The damage from Chill was NOT that good to begin with. That’s not to say what they changed it to was better though …
The whole rotation feels so less natural now, unless you main Necromancer you would not understand this in a PvE setting. Deathly Chill was nice because you could swing it with Dagger 4 swarm for a beautiful combo and get some damage out of doing so. Now? it’s like you apply a blind and a short duration of chill only to lose time you could have been damaging, it’s like when Blizzard removed Rend from warriors in World of Warcraft – it breaks the flow.
I play a Necro very often in PVE but I don’t understand your reasoning. You are going to get damage from Dagger 4 and Deathly chill through a long duration bleed instead of directly from the short duration chill (resulting in more damage over time that stacks with other bleeds as opposed to over time like chills). To me, that ability to get upfront stacks of bleeds is significant for PVE play because the main weakness of condi builds is the buildup you need to get the good damage from them.
Furthermore, Deathly Swarm got a reduced CD this patch, so you can apply it more often. There is literally no effect on the flow … other than the ‘problem’ of spamming Deathly Swarm MORE often.
Now, you might think 1 bleed is a little weak for a GM … but no ICD … if you apply 3 chills in the same instant, you get three bleeds and they do damage over a longer period. With the right build, you spam chills a ridiculous amount. I’m going to give it a go but just testing now, I was getting my 3 bleeds very easy on trash mobs. Can’t wait to see what I can do when I’m actually trying to apply chills.
first deathly swar did pre patch 2400 damage (unless you overstack chill which you shouldn’t) now it does 1800. So we lost 600 dps there. Also no cooldown reduction we instead got a cast time increase → lower dps. Finally in this patch getting 4 bleeds every 16 seconds is kinda because it is only optimal to do this when your cast time multiplied to the amount of chills you place is lower then the cast time for the scepter auto and no of yourcondi skills are off cooldown. So yeah this patch is pve disaster.
EverythingOP
Yep. Its not surprising that it needs changing for that reason (lol Terror), just bad implementation.
To be fair with terror, it was not a pve thing and it was quite hard to reach 100% fear uptime. But I aggree with the bad implementation.
EverythingOP
I don’t why people are so offended by this change. The damage from Chill was NOT that good to begin with. That’s not to say what they changed it to was better though …
The whole rotation feels so less natural now, unless you main Necromancer you would not understand this in a PvE setting. Deathly Chill was nice because you could swing it with Dagger 4 swarm for a beautiful combo and get some damage out of doing so. Now? it’s like you apply a blind and a short duration of chill only to lose time you could have been damaging, it’s like when Blizzard removed Rend from warriors in World of Warcraft – it breaks the flow.
I play a Necro very often in PVE but I don’t understand your reasoning. You are going to get damage from Dagger 4 and Deathly chill through a long duration bleed instead of directly from the short duration chill (resulting in more damage over time that stacks with other bleeds as opposed to over time like chills). To me, that ability to get upfront stacks of bleeds is significant for PVE play because the main weakness of condi builds is the buildup you need to get the good damage from them.
Furthermore, Deathly Swarm got a reduced CD this patch, so you can apply it more often. There is literally no effect on the flow … other than the ‘problem’ of spamming Deathly Swarm MORE often.
Now, you might think 1 bleed is a little weak for a GM … but no ICD … if you apply 3 chills in the same instant, you get three bleeds and they do damage over a longer period. With the right build, you spam chills a ridiculous amount. I’m going to give it a go but just testing now, I was getting my 3 bleeds very easy on trash mobs. Can’t wait to see what I can do when I’m actually trying to apply chills.
first deathly swar did pre patch 2400 damage (unless you overstack chill which you shouldn’t) now it does 1800. So we lost 600 dps there. Also no cooldown reduction we instead got a cast time increase -> lower dps. Finally in this patch getting 4 bleeds every 16 seconds is kinda because it is only optimal to do this when your cast time multiplied to the amount of chills you place is lower then the cast time for the scepter auto and no of yourcondi skills are off cooldown. So yeah this patch is pve disaster.
Deathly Swarm: The missile velocity of this skill has been increased by 100%. The casting time of the projectile has increased by 0.2 seconds.
There is no mention of damage change so where are you getting your facts about the drop in damage?
Furthermore, claiming an increase of 0.2 cast time has a significant enough impact on damage to claim PVE disaster is laughable. Yes, i was wrong about reduced CD … There are too many changes floating around in my head ATM.
The fact is that this was changed because of damage conflicts between other chill applications; Anet should have known better in the first place because they had the same problem with burning before it was changed to stack. This is not a PVE disaster if you want your damage to matter for all situations.
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