See, that is almost exactly what the passive would have been. They just included some parameters to fit the skill to this game, namely making it mark a target (as that introduces better gameplay for this game, imo), and then having a max-stack limit so that it couldn’t be too abused (I don’t recall GW1 having the same kind of attack timing differences like here).
That is half the reason why I was so in love with the original skill, was because its active was essentially Order of the Vampire, but fit to GW2.
except the life stealing scaling in GW2 is so much lower then it was in gw1 that you know for a fact that the most someone would get out of this if they “abused” this would be half, at best what the thieve’s venom gives.
Passive
Vampiric trait x5 (replace ICD with hp limit on skill, max 1000hp from 1 skill)
Active (recharge time: 20 / activation time: 1)
Initial Heal: 50% Life Force (reset DS recharge time)
Heal: 2000 (Absorbs target’s HP)
Wait a minute… You’re a kittening genius. What if there wasn’t a Vampiric cap, on any of them, but yes the passive was on hit but had a cap (would have to be lower than 1000 I’d say, maybe 500?) BUTTTTTTTT. The CAP scaled with healing power with the actual healing so that it wouldn’t screw over healing power. That’s a genius way to deal with it. Or, simply give the vampirism a “cap” on how many targets it can leech from at a time, say 5. Either way this would eliminate quite a few issues.
The active on this even sounds good. Lose a lot of your stealing power to steal a tiny burst but give life force in exchange. I could be down with this. Maybe something more like 4000 hp, 2000 damage (keep the damage the same) and 25-30% LF though would probably be a little more reasonable, but that’s just my opinion.
High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
guys come down, look at what they did: they saw we disliked it and made it even worse, they don’t give a kitten aboud our opinion, it will make its way into the game the way they whant it to be, and if we dislike it that’s our prb… sad but true, anet fears life leesh.
The problem with the way the heal is designed and some other decisions made is that they are done in this magical world where people stand around and let you hit them. In this magical world there is no blocks, no stuns, no knockdowns, no roots and no evades of any sort.
All it takes is for the signet to be activated and then watch as the lack of stability means a well timed stun or knockdown and you wont get to use up any of the stacks. A couple of well timed evades and more than likely blocking/immunity skills and you wont get any benefit from the stacks.
It is a really bad skill and if they had taken the time to gauge what the community wanted or what they thought they would have known that. Why have a community discussion regarding Dec 10th changes and not at least have it in there as part of the discussion. Instead they use the cloak and dagger approach thinking that they know best and by past history that has not always been the case.
Alot of these issue’s could have been avoided if they had been a little bit more open with the community. And that is my biggest gripe with them is that I know alot of stuff cannot be divulged but there is things like this that I feel could have been asked in advance. A simple we are looking to add a new heal skill this is what we have planned discuss. Then expand on it from there as they have shown that they can have this type of discussion but they need to be done alot more often than they are.
The signet should have been,
Passive: Gain health when struck in DS
Soooo even worse than already since signets dont work in ds and even if they did no health gain is applied while you are in DS…
Well of course all of that would need to be fixed, I just thought people would be smart enough to figure out that such aspects would need fixing, felt no need to really explain all that.
[Apex] – Zero Entity 80 Necromancer
Blackgate Apexprime.enjin.com
The signet should have been,
Passive: Gain health when struck in DS
Soooo even worse than already since signets dont work in ds and even if they did no health gain is applied while you are in DS…
Well of course all of that would need to be fixed, I just thought people would be smart enough to figure out that such aspects would need fixing, felt no need to really explain all that.
…
You know that they said its a feature not a bug, right?
When life gives you lemon, ask if its from a anime or manga.
Nope,I do remember them saying in one of the 1st state of the games that healing in DS is something they wanted to look into but that never really happened. O well still think the signet should be heal when struck in DS.
[Apex] – Zero Entity 80 Necromancer
Blackgate Apexprime.enjin.com
I imagine the main feature of this can just be dodged/aegis/blocked/interrupted? I would not recommend anyone getting rid of condition removal for this…
I imagine the main feature of this can just be dodged/aegis/blocked/interrupted? I would not recommend anyone getting rid of condition removal for this…
Yup. And even if they don’t do that for the activation of the skill, they can do so for any follow up and negate the mark. This wouldn’t be a problem if the active had some teeth (it would be high-risk, high-reward), but it doesn’t (making it high risk, tiny reward).
I imagine the main feature of this can just be dodged/aegis/blocked/interrupted? I would not recommend anyone getting rid of condition removal for this…
Yup. And even if they don’t do that for the activation of the skill, they can do so for any follow up and negate the mark. This wouldn’t be a problem if the active had some teeth (it would be high-risk, high-reward), but it doesn’t [(making it high risk, tiny no reward).
I fixed that for you. This skill heals at best 5.2k. That’s not a reward even in a perfect scenario.
High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
What bugs me is the stream of hype that comes from the dev team on these skills and then they’re not even worth considering. I just…don’t understand. When I heard the initial description I got excited and rightfully so. But now it’s a joke. I’m beginning to wonder if the skill/balance dev team even plays the game. They certainly don’t seem to understand how the synergies and builds work with regard to high level play. I just…don’t understand.
This is a very PvE oriented heal skill it seems. The short duration, the small passive heal and the 1sec ICD on the active is kinda underwhelming and it will have 0 effect against anything that can dodge or block!
The signet appearing so vividly above the target just yells: “hey, dude, I’m trying to hit you to survive… please don’t dodge or block for 5 seconds, thank you!” (it’s at least 5 seconds right?)
The active needs to have a shorter cooldown(like 20 seconds), and the ICD needs to be removed. The damage portion of the active siphon needs to be buffed, and the passive “siphon” needs to have damage added back.
Then it will possibly be useful in a team setting.
The ICD ruined the only niche this heal had. It was going to be a great “Don’t focus the necromancer first” skill because of the back-lash and because it’d heal proportionately to how many people were swinging at the necromancer (granted it would have to not proc from clones) or have an ICD per person, but not a blanket one. The use would have to be better and not have an ICD so it had better play to it, like comboing it with Life Siphon, but yeah. After they tried to “polish” it, they completely ruined any amount of use this skill had, and the fun purpose it had. Now it’s just a garbage healing signet that requires being hit to heal for less than the warrior healing signet, and we get a long cooldown “use” that can be evaded to death from start to end.
Not to mention Leeching isn’t a support mechanic, it’s supposed to be a selfish drain-tank mechanic. We have wells to support a team fight, and Well of Blood is a better team heal than this, easily.
High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
What bugs me is the stream of hype that comes from the dev team on these skills and then they’re not even worth considering. I just…don’t understand. When I heard the initial description I got excited and rightfully so. But now it’s a joke. I’m beginning to wonder if the skill/balance dev team even plays the game. They certainly don’t seem to understand how the synergies and builds work with regard to high level play. I just…don’t understand.
Half the time they don’t even know where basic things are. That’s what makes it so hard to believe that they play at all… Like once it took him like 10 seconds to find where the healing stat was in the UI. x.X I can just visualize where it is, let alone just looking for the big +. It kinda blew my mind, either he was having an off day or he just seems very unfamiliar with basic parts of the game sometimes.
High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
The ICD ruined the only niche this heal had. It was going to be a great “Don’t focus the necromancer first” skill because of the back-lash and because it’d heal proportionately to how many people were swinging at the necromancer (granted it would have to not proc from clones) or have an ICD per person, but not a blanket one. The use would have to be better and not have an ICD so it had better play to it, like comboing it with Life Siphon, but yeah. After they tried to “polish” it, they completely ruined any amount of use this skill had, and the fun purpose it had. Now it’s just a garbage healing signet that requires being hit to heal for less than the warrior healing signet, and we get a long cooldown “use” that can be evaded to death from start to end.
Not to mention Leeching isn’t a support mechanic, it’s supposed to be a selfish drain-tank mechanic. We have wells to support a team fight, and Well of Blood is a better team heal than this, easily.
Exactly the signet should have been a more selfish skill. Even if they buff it, in its current from its more of an offensive support heal, and to be honest for support, if choosing between the signet and wob, i would always take the one which heals more (and is relative to that reliable).
I don’t spend a lot of time looking at the stats UI, so I always look for individual items as well on there. I wouldn’t go attacking the devs over that.
I don’t spend a lot of time looking at the stats UI, so I always look for individual items as well on there. I wouldn’t go attacking the devs over that.
Agreed, but it was obvious that they dont play necros often…
I don’t spend a lot of time looking at the stats UI, so I always look for individual items as well on there. I wouldn’t go attacking the devs over that.
That was just a single scenario of them doing something questionable. It has happened quite a bit. These are people who supposedly work on this stuff and tamper with these things, they should know where things are. There’s a difference in a player who makes a build and plays a lot and doesn’t look at stats and someone who should be looking at this stuff a lot, while developing abilities, especially healing ones…. If anyone should be deeply knowledgeable about stats its people creating new abilities. Just saying.
High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
Just some perspective, there are 11 different threads in the Necro forums right now in response to this heal, with 19 pages of content.
Since the preview, a total of 2 people have expressed a positive opinion of the healing skill, and both of those 2 are PvE players, where the skill will arguably be passable in a few niche builds.
You can’t be serious. In PvE, in high level fractals and some dungeons like a Arah, you can get 1-2 shot.
This signet will be the least viable in PvE where something like the Ascalonian mages in fractals can autoattack you for 8-9k damage each.
The concept of a heal that requires getting hit is just dumb. If anything, it should have been necromancers who got that warrior heal as “vampirism”.
The original version was very promising. It had a high risk vs. reward aspect to it.. with setup/strategy required to make the most of it, and easy counters built into it.
If it were something like.. 150 health stolen from enemies that hit you(with no internal cool down) passive, and an active that lasted 5 seconds with no ICD that leeched about 500 HP per hit, on a 20 sec cd… I could see that being not only useful in group PvE, but also a very balanced heal in PvP that forces both the Necro and his opponent to use skillful play to use/counter it.
This heal had potential and I was really looking forward to using it in a Blood siphoning build.
Sadly, its current state is so terrible that I doubt anyone will even try it. Max 5200 HP on 35 sec cd lol… with a passive that heals less per second than Healing signet and also requires the necro to constantly be under attack. What a joke.
The original version was very promising. It had a high risk vs. reward aspect to it.. with setup/strategy required to make the most of it, and easy counters built into it.
If it were something like.. 150 health stolen from enemies that hit you(with no internal cool down) passive, and an active that lasted 5 seconds with no ICD that leeched about 500 HP per hit, on a 20 sec cd… I could see that being not only useful in group PvE, but also a very balanced heal in PvP that forces both the Necro and his opponent to use skillful play to use/counter it.
This heal had potential and I was really looking forward to using it in a Blood siphoning build.
Sadly, its current state is so terrible that I doubt anyone will even try it. Max 5200 HP on 35 sec cd lol… with a passive that heals less per second than Healing signet and also requires the necro to constantly be under attack. What a joke.
Nobody will run anything other than consume conditions because necro condi removal is heavily pigeonholed. You got putrid mark, and you got dagger offhand. That’s about it. Both weapons usually for condi sets.
Without consume conditions you’ll die miserably to burning and poison spam.
The original version was very promising. It had a high risk vs. reward aspect to it.. with setup/strategy required to make the most of it, and easy counters built into it.
If it were something like.. 150 health stolen from enemies that hit you(with no internal cool down) passive, and an active that lasted 5 seconds with no ICD that leeched about 500 HP per hit, on a 20 sec cd… I could see that being not only useful in group PvE, but also a very balanced heal in PvP that forces both the Necro and his opponent to use skillful play to use/counter it.
This heal had potential and I was really looking forward to using it in a Blood siphoning build.
Sadly, its current state is so terrible that I doubt anyone will even try it. Max 5200 HP on 35 sec cd lol… with a passive that heals less per second than Healing signet and also requires the necro to constantly be under attack. What a joke.
Nobody will run anything other than consume conditions because necro condi removal is heavily pigeonholed. You got putrid mark, and you got dagger offhand. That’s about it. Both weapons usually for condi sets.
Without consume conditions you’ll die miserably to burning and poison spam.
Yeh. They should buff the “Lose a condi when you go into death shroud” to “You lose 2 condis when you go into death shroud” as a first step. This is the biggest problem. The players know where the huge flaws in the classes are. But the developers dont really. SO we just get boring traits like on the necro. I really dont get how they havent fixed death magic minor traits yet to make that trait like viable outside of minion builds. And I dont understand why they havent buffed traits like the remove a condi when you go into death shroud or heal when you go into death shroud…they want to buff support. Well of blood is an awesome support skill but then you just die to ranger auto attack without consume conditions.
I also dont understand why things like spiteful marks aren’t integrated into reduced cooldown on marks. And then we can get more coherent traits. Then the minion traits are all over the place (3 lines). And the well traits are all over the place. The spectral traits are in different lines. The corruption trait should be an adept trait. Rather than nerfing weakening shroud they should of moved it to master and put the corruption one at adept.
It is really hard to make build when they put all the traits all over the place. It was like they randomly assigned the traits to different lines. They really need to communicate with necromancers who have the knowledge that they lack on the traits. We have spent hours and hours trying to create new builds only to be frustrated by things like death magic 15 minor trait and the staff traits being in 3 different lines (mark on dodge, spiteful marks, staff mastery and greater marks). I mean none of those traits are good. You would think those 4 traits should instead be 2 traits. But for them to all suck, then to constantly nerf staff marks (staff 4 is now bad, staff 2 is going to be bad) on a weapon set which is only taken for utility (a condi necro will never spend much time in staff if they can help it) doesnt help build diversity.
Character: Henry rank million/Duke Henry
Necromancer/Casual Warrior
[Team] Best WvW guild of all time. EASILY.
The original version was very promising. It had a high risk vs. reward aspect to it.. with setup/strategy required to make the most of it, and easy counters built into it.
If it were something like.. 150 health stolen from enemies that hit you(with no internal cool down) passive, and an active that lasted 5 seconds with no ICD that leeched about 500 HP per hit, on a 20 sec cd… I could see that being not only useful in group PvE, but also a very balanced heal in PvP that forces both the Necro and his opponent to use skillful play to use/counter it.
This heal had potential and I was really looking forward to using it in a Blood siphoning build.
Sadly, its current state is so terrible that I doubt anyone will even try it. Max 5200 HP on 35 sec cd lol… with a passive that heals less per second than Healing signet and also requires the necro to constantly be under attack. What a joke.
Nobody will run anything other than consume conditions because necro condi removal is heavily pigeonholed. You got putrid mark, and you got dagger offhand. That’s about it. Both weapons usually for condi sets.
Without consume conditions you’ll die miserably to burning and poison spam.
Yeh. They should buff the “Lose a condi when you go into death shroud” to “You lose 2 condis when you go into death shroud” as a first step. This is the biggest problem. The players know where the huge flaws in the classes are. But the developers dont really. SO we just get boring traits like on the necro. I really dont get how they havent fixed death magic minor traits yet to make that trait like viable outside of minion builds. And I dont understand why they havent buffed traits like the remove a condi when you go into death shroud or heal when you go into death shroud…they want to buff support. Well of blood is an awesome support skill but then you just die to ranger auto attack without consume conditions.
I also dont understand why things like spiteful marks aren’t integrated into reduced cooldown on marks. And then we can get more coherent traits. Then the minion traits are all over the place (3 lines). And the well traits are all over the place. The spectral traits are in different lines. The corruption trait should be an adept trait. Rather than nerfing weakening shroud they should of moved it to master and put the corruption one at adept.
It is really hard to make build when they put all the traits all over the place. It was like they randomly assigned the traits to different lines. They really need to communicate with necromancers who have the knowledge that they lack on the traits. We have spent hours and hours trying to create new builds only to be frustrated by things like death magic 15 minor trait and the staff traits being in 3 different lines (mark on dodge, spiteful marks, staff mastery and greater marks). I mean none of those traits are good. You would think those 4 traits should instead be 2 traits. But for them to all suck, then to constantly nerf staff marks (staff 4 is now bad, staff 2 is going to be bad) on a weapon set which is only taken for utility (a condi necro will never spend much time in staff if they can help it) doesnt help build diversity.
Boom. Couldn’t have said it better.
Been running my Warrior and Mesmer recently and it’s night and day difference with the trait design.
It’s a shame that Arena net isn’t concerned with this class. That new healing signet sounds horrible… i keep thinking about the devs running through that heal skill and the Guardian heal skill… what a difference.
And they showed off all of the healing skills, gave their numbers, animations etc. I’m basing my opinion off of that, having seen all of them. Granted, I am somewhat biased since it fits a certain build me and my friend have been running perfectly, but if I can think of uses for it I’m sure you can too.
You guys are ignoring the fact that it is a healing skill which provides damage.
So does blood fiend. How many necros actually use that. :P Just remember the old saying; “A dead dps is no dps.” That can hold true with a bad heal, if you can’t sustain yourself, you’re going to die and if you die you’re lowing the whole teams DPS.
High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
Blood fiend doesn’t deal as much, and doesn’t deal spike damage. And people still use it. This skill can provide over 5k armor ignoring damage in a short period of time.
This just makes me sad. Why don’t the devs care about the necromancer? All of our skills and traits are horribly underwhelming and all over the place… and then they make this signet completely useless. Then don’t give us a new skill at all. Just don’t bother. It could have been so good.
Blood fiend doesn’t deal as much, and doesn’t deal spike damage. And people still use it. This skill can provide over 5k armor ignoring damage in a short period of time.
Over 28 seconds blood fiend can provide 1800 damage, or 2300 over 35 seconds (in case of the signet not being traited). Plus the amount of personal dps lost just to use the 1.25 second cast, you’re looking at pretty substantial dps drop in full berserkers and a decent damage build, and using your heal just to dps, meaning you’re losing any spot healing you might need.
High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
One of the saddest things is that there was so much potential for actually making a really fun and useful skill. I know I am not a dev but just a couple conceptual ideas off the top of my head:
Signet of Sacrifice:
Passive: Regenerate life force
Active: Convert your life force to HP
or
Grenth’s Embrace:
Cast time 3 seconds. Pulses 3 times. Each pulse heals x HP.
Pulse 1: Apply blind in an AOE radius
Pulse 2: Apply blind and cripple in an AOE radius
Pulse 3: Apply blind, cripple and chill in an AOE radius
or
Bloodseeker:
Mark your target with 5 bloodseeker debuffs lasting 5 seconds each. Every time you hit the target, remove one bloodseeker debuff and heal 2k HP. No base heal.
These are all stupid little ideas I thought about in the past 5 minutes but IMO all seem to have some use and are much more exciting than the crap that we are getting
