Metabattle: celestial signet is meta?

Metabattle: celestial signet is meta?

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Posted by: Javonovich.5280

Javonovich.5280

I saw on metabattle.com that the celestial signet build is considered a meta build for ranked. I know the build is good and handles those pesky celes pretty well, but I wasn’t overly impressed with the other matchups I had with it.

What are your thoughts on this? Is this build really “meta”? What am I missing here?

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Posted by: Rising Dusk.2408

Rising Dusk.2408

It’s not meta at all, it was just used by the Abjured during their win in Cologne. Metabattle users decided that one team using it to win the WTS means it’s a frequently used build lots of players should use, and thus named it meta.

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Posted by: Jackalrat.5493

Jackalrat.5493

Yeah. It’s Meta. I (and likely many others) predicted this about a week and a half ago (as well as the warrior losing its meta status). Can’t say I’m the least bit surprised.

As someone who exclusively runs powermancer and typically fairs quite well, I gave this build a go. You sacrifice only a small amount of damage for a damage soak that rivals guardians and meta eles. Moreover, it directly counters the d/d ele meta build. In fact, most of the meta builds won’t be able to 1v1 you and will have to retreat or get reinforcements.

I know it’s hard for necros to accept we finally have a meta build, but there it is.

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Posted by: Amityel.5324

Amityel.5324

good build for sure I just dont like signet of vampirism…….reaper will bring whole new gameplay tho.

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Posted by: Ara.4569

Ara.4569

Abjured won WTS, and Nos (cele signet necro) was part of the team. Thus, this is meta for metabattle. Now I encourage you to watch those WTF finals and decide by yourself (past broadcast of guildwars2’s twitch).

#nostate meta: get ready for a plague nerf.

On a side note, metabattle forgot to add MM necro to the meta. I mean, the best team from a country of 1.5 billion people had a MM necro.

Balance team is a bunch of clowns, hurting the game to the full extent of their abilities.

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Posted by: Bull Zooker.1672

Bull Zooker.1672

I put together a reaper cele signet build that played a lot like the core cele signet build, it just benefitted from reaper shroud (I was also testing out chill duration runes and the 2 chill shouts – D/F and staff).

SR, Reaper and Spite, faired pretty well and really love the new reaper shroud and necro ‘mobility’ it provides.

note, I didn’t play at any high level pvp but can see a necro pro doing very well with something similar to what I was running.

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Posted by: nearlight.3064

nearlight.3064

I’d say its meta on NA but not EU. I see a fair amount of cele signet necros on various teams in the NA ESLs, and even more in lower tier tourneys like AG. on EU, it hasn’t really caught on, but thats because there aren’t really any top tier necro pvpers that advocate for it.

Anyway, I’d say that cele signet necro is meta simply because it holds its own against every other meta build listed on that website. The build has extremely favorable 1v1 matchups due to mightstacking, great life force generation high sustained damage, and excellent debuff pressure with boon corruption and near perma weakness, and it also occupies the niche of making burn spam builds kill their own team. Honestly the build is so much better than the squishy well DPS or condi DPS builds because it handles focus fire much better in general, while having high sustained, rather than burst damage.

Basically in conquest the meta has mainly been bruisers and highly mobile zerkers (thief/mes). Cele signet necro feels more like a bruiser build than any other necro build we’ve ever really had, and thats a huge part to why its meta. Compared to other bruisers, necro can’t disengage reliably, although a similarly built soldier’s reaper would probably handle that better, but with less debuff pressure.

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Posted by: runeblade.7514

runeblade.7514

Abjured won WTS, and Nos (cele signet necro) was part of the team. Thus, this is meta for metabattle. Now I encourage you to watch those WTF finals and decide by yourself (past broadcast of guildwars2’s twitch).

#nostate meta: get ready for a plague nerf.

On a side note, metabattle forgot to add MM necro to the meta. I mean, the best team from a country of 1.5 billion people had a MM necro.

The best team from a country of 1.5 billion people was utterly destroyed.

No need to.

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Posted by: Bhawb.7408

Bhawb.7408

It’s not meta at all, it was just used by the Abjured during their win in Cologne. Metabattle users decided that one team using it to win the WTS means it’s a frequently used build lots of players should use, and thus named it meta.

Its worth noting that Metabattle is a community project. The builds and ratings are only as good as we allow them to be. But I got auto banned by a bot on metabattle so RIP 8(

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Posted by: Flumek.9043

Flumek.9043

U mean meta as best possible necro build or meta in being top 5 pick for a team?

It is without doubt our best build you can run in a tourney or soloq.
Note its also considered a somewhat healthy build, like compared to condispam or onetrick proc power necro.
Still cele, but not ele level of kiten

Is it a must to bring necro in team?

Definetly nope. I think most accurate representation is necro/ warri/ engie are in same tier of competing for 5th slot.

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Posted by: nearlight.3064

nearlight.3064

U mean meta as best possible necro build or meta in being top 5 pick for a team?

It is without doubt our best build you can run in a tourney or soloq.
Note its also considered a somewhat healthy build, like compared to condispam or onetrick proc power necro.
Still cele, but not ele level of kiten

Is it a must to bring necro in team?

Definetly nope. I think most accurate representation is necro/ warri/ engie are in same tier of competing for 5th slot.

Yeah I feel like that is true. Its basically a toss up between CC/decaps for engi, condi countering and 1v1 potential with necro, and teamfights/rampage with warrior, so each fills different roles, but aren’t necessarily better than one another.

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Posted by: Javonovich.5280

Javonovich.5280

Thanks for your thoughts, all. I’ve played around a bit with it and my initial impression hasn’t changed. It handles 1v1s pretty well for classes that rely on boons, and its performance in team fights isn’t horrible. Still, when I compare my nec to my guard, ele, or thief, nec doesn’t feel like it brings anything essential to the team. It offers some nice utility with condi control and boon stripping, but limited mobility is a death sentence in spvp.

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Posted by: Cecilia.5179

Cecilia.5179

It’s not meta at all, it was just used by the Abjured during their win in Cologne. Metabattle users decided that one team using it to win the WTS means it’s a frequently used build lots of players should use, and thus named it meta.

Its worth noting that Metabattle is a community project. The builds and ratings are only as good as we allow them to be. But I got auto banned by a bot on metabattle so RIP 8(

How do you get autobanned?

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Posted by: Bhawb.7408

Bhawb.7408

They have a bot that is supposed to make sure people don’t troll by going in and say deleting the entire D/D ele guide and writing “smash face on keyboard → win” or crap like that. I was fixing up the MM build (I had been taking care of it after the specialization change), and I was deleting a lot of extraneous explanations I had added in a previous change. It probably flagged me as deleting too much, or I had done something else on accident, and auto banned me.

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Posted by: Cecilia.5179

Cecilia.5179

Sounds like they have an angry email due their way.

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Posted by: Bhawb.7408

Bhawb.7408

Nah its not like it was their fault.

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Posted by: getzzzonked.7609

getzzzonked.7609

A quick message to all: I saw this post yesterday and laughed my kitten off briefly, before signing up to Metabattle to rate the celestial signet build. Took me 2 minutes. I gave it a ‘Bad’ for obvious reasons. You can do the same.
The build has been voted on 13 times. 13. 13 people decided this was ‘meta’? Until more people start using that website it is going to be the joke of the sPvP community. Do your profession a solid, sign up and rate that kittene.

EDIT: Apologies, I was under the impression that 13 votes was a small number of people to deem a build meta. This is not the case at all on the site. I still stand by my previous opinions in that the build is far from what I would deem great.

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(edited by getzzzonked.7609)

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Posted by: Cannabrah.7842

Cannabrah.7842

A quick message to all: I saw this post yesterday and laughed my kitten off briefly, before signing up to Metabattle to rate the celestial signet build. Took me 2 minutes. I gave it a ‘Bad’ for obvious reasons. You can do the same.
The build has been voted on 13 times. 13. 13 people decided this was ‘meta’? Until more people start using that website it is going to be the joke of the sPvP community. Do your profession a solid, sign up and rate that kittene.

If you go by definition how many votes something gets then Cele signet should be the go to since it has 13 votes which most of all Meta/Great builds. Next on the line is GS/Hammer War with 5. So by that definition 1 or 2 ppl have decided all but 2 of the Meta/Great builds.

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Posted by: getzzzonked.7609

getzzzonked.7609

If you go by definition how many votes something gets then Cele signet should be the go to since it has 13 votes which most of all Meta/Great builds. Next on the line is GS/Hammer War with 5. So by that definition 1 or 2 ppl have decided all but 2 of the Meta/Great builds.

I didn’t realise all the numbers were so low. Like I said, I signed up yesterday to rate Cele Signet. It’s quite amazing to be honest. I use meta battle when I want to see what build it is (most likely) that just beat me, or if I want to try something completely new. I know a lot of people use it, I mean, a hell of a lot, yet so people are involved in rating the builds… Guess the point stands that more folks should get involved in the rating.

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Posted by: Piotr.3261

Piotr.3261

Yes it is. I’m running cele signet and it’s great, counters very well cele ele, condi engi and burn guardian (if You do it properly, watch out for aegis), has a lot more survivability and can hold points much better than powernecro. I see a lot of ppl on EU running cele signet.

btw if it’s working on tournaments it will work even better in solo q.

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Posted by: getzzzonked.7609

getzzzonked.7609

Yes it is. I’m running cele signet and it’s great, counters very well cele ele, condi engi and burn guardian (if You do it properly, watch out for aegis), has a lot more survivability and can hold points much better than powernecro. I see a lot of ppl on EU running cele signet.

btw if it’s working on tournaments it will work even better in solo q.

Necro builds can counter Condi Engi and Condi guard, hell, condi anything.

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Posted by: Cannabrah.7842

Cannabrah.7842

Cele signet is the most viable build for Necro in current sPvP. The only thing that hinders the cele signet (and for most builds in general) is that you need atleast capable team to go with it. If your team is just a bunch of loot bags there is nothing you or any other build can do about it. But I think it makes more sense to bring a cele signet to sPvP than traditional powermancer.

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Posted by: Kicker.8203

Kicker.8203

good build for sure I just dont like signet of vampirism…….reaper will bring whole new gameplay tho.

Not at all, after playing around with different builds i settled with playing signet cele reaper, same weapons and same utilities as current meta, with these traits http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgQB1AWsBuQ~

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Posted by: PlatinumMember.5274

PlatinumMember.5274

A quick message to all: I saw this post yesterday and laughed my kitten off briefly, before signing up to Metabattle to rate the celestial signet build. Took me 2 minutes. I gave it a ‘Bad’ for obvious reasons. You can do the same.
The build has been voted on 13 times. 13. 13 people decided this was ‘meta’? Until more people start using that website it is going to be the joke of the sPvP community. Do your profession a solid, sign up and rate that kittene.

Apparently being brutally honest in this forum is bad. So let me trying being nice, you don’t know what you are talking about. Celes is a good NECROMancer build whether you agree or not.

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Posted by: nearlight.3064

nearlight.3064

good build for sure I just dont like signet of vampirism…….reaper will bring whole new gameplay tho.

Not at all, after playing around with different builds i settled with playing signet cele reaper, same weapons and same utilities as current meta, with these traits http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgQB1AWsBuQ~

I tried this reaper build, and honestly without curses for perma-weakness and the extra condi transfer, I found that I had to switch to soliders to survive. And overall it had better survivability than normal cele necro due to more tankiness and the bruiser traits in reaper, but I just felt like the debuff pressure and boon corruption, just wasn’t there.

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Posted by: getzzzonked.7609

getzzzonked.7609

Apparently being brutally honest in this forum is bad. So let me trying being nice, you don’t know what you are talking about. Celes is a good NECROMancer build whether you agree or not.

The build on the meta battle website is not a good build. Celestial anything should utilise as many of the stats on the amulet as possible, but this build does not.
The toughness and vitality mean it can take a hit and some focus. The power, precision and Ferocity all obviously beneficial but still aren’t as high as they would be from a proper power build. The condition damage is wasted with such weak condition application. Cele Dhuumfire build for example can be useful, as can Cele Condi with a Scepter in the weapons. The healing power is wasted with only one skill passively benefitting from it, Signet of Vamp (which isn’t a well balanced skill), and 2 CD’s Dagger 2 and Signet of Locust. If a build is going to take Cele stats and try and be an all rounder it should invest in trait lines that benefit from the stats, such as Blood Magic maybe? Instead this build tries to do too many things at once and only succeeds at one, Boon Corruption. Yes, has excellent boon corruption: So do all Signet builds. Yes, it has good self might stacking: So do all power builds. Yes it can take a hit, so can a Rabid or Valk or Marauders. It isn’t a build that is properly utilising itself. So in my opinion, it isn’t a good build.
I won’t deny it worked for Abjured, but that was quite situational. Not many Necro’s can say they are going to have to hold their own against the best players in the world.
What are your reasons otherwise?

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Posted by: WhiteDeath.8067

WhiteDeath.8067

Do you even pvp tho?

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Posted by: nearlight.3064

nearlight.3064

Apparently being brutally honest in this forum is bad. So let me trying being nice, you don’t know what you are talking about. Celes is a good NECROMancer build whether you agree or not.

The build on the meta battle website is not a good build. Celestial anything should utilise as many of the stats on the amulet as possible, but this build does not.
The toughness and vitality mean it can take a hit and some focus. The power, precision and Ferocity all obviously beneficial but still aren’t as high as they would be from a proper power build. The condition damage is wasted with such weak condition application. Cele Dhuumfire build for example can be useful, as can Cele Condi with a Scepter in the weapons. The healing power is wasted with only one skill passively benefitting from it, Signet of Vamp (which isn’t a well balanced skill), and 2 CD’s Dagger 2 and Signet of Locust. If a build is going to take Cele stats and try and be an all rounder it should invest in trait lines that benefit from the stats, such as Blood Magic maybe? Instead this build tries to do too many things at once and only succeeds at one, Boon Corruption. Yes, has excellent boon corruption: So do all Signet builds. Yes, it has good self might stacking: So do all power builds. Yes it can take a hit, so can a Rabid or Valk or Marauders. It isn’t a build that is properly utilising itself. So in my opinion, it isn’t a good build.
I won’t deny it worked for Abjured, but that was quite situational. Not many Necro’s can say they are going to have to hold their own against the best players in the world.
What are your reasons otherwise?

Your argument is wrong. The condi damage stat powers up the damage from transffered conditions, tainted shackles, dark path, corrupted boons, and the bleeding/poison from marks. Thats not wasted, in fact thats more condi pressure than celestial engi or war in their current state. Also, dhuumfire is plain bad on base necro, while good with reaper, this much is established fact.

Furthermore regarding healing power, you conveniently forget to mention that mark of blood gives 6 seconds of regen, a 1200 heal over time in AoE on a very low cooldown. And this is in addition to the heals from vamp signet, locus signet, and dagger 2. Blood magic doesn’t work very well with celestial. The siphons don’t scale well enough to be worth taking over the perma-weakness and PoC and plague sending in Curses. Transfusion is a good trait, but you honestly need to build much tankier if you want to take on the role of a primary rezzer.

And finally, I find it almost laughable that you think marauder and rabid can take a hit. If you go against a burst oriented comp with those amulets (or carrion/valk too), you’re literally going to be thief and mesmer food so bad that you’ll be a straight up liability to your team. While well pressure is extremely high, you honestly can’t survive focus fire at all compared to tankier setups. And condi necro.. lets not get started on how many problems it has.

Right now the meta in conquest is tanky bruisers (cele, soldiers, or more support oriented clerics) and highly mobile zerkers (thief/mes and warrior to some extent). Necromancer can fulfill the tranky bruiser role well and has a better chance of beating other tanky bruisers 1v1 than any other build out there right now. Power necro isn’t a good idea because necro simply lacks the mobility and mechanics to evade focus fire compared to thief and mesmer. Also warriors and guardians, while having flaws for that role, generally do better as zerkers than necromancer due to better cleave overall. And finally comparing rampage to lich is a joke. Using lich is basically putitng a big “please kill me” sign on your head, while rampage does even more damage to more people at once while having tremendous mobility and damage reduction and the ability to stomp/rez.

So in conclusion, cele signet necro is good. Power necro is not very good. I honestly hope your vote on metabattle gets overturned.

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Posted by: Tim.6450

Tim.6450

Your argument is wrong. The condi damage stat powers up the damage from transffered conditions,

This one is wrong.

EverythingOP

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Posted by: Brando.1374

Brando.1374

Your argument is wrong. The condi damage stat powers up the damage from transffered conditions,

This one is wrong.

How so?
From what I know whatever condition a necro transfers to another player uses that necromancer condition damage.

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Posted by: Salamander.2504

Salamander.2504

Blood magic doesn’t work very well with celestial. The siphons don’t scale well enough to be worth taking over the perma-weakness and PoC and plague sending in Curses. Transfusion is a good trait, but you honestly need to build much tankier if you want to take on the role of a primary rezzer.

Life from Death has a healing coefficient of 1.5, and works great with celestial.
Without celestial=747 aoe heal at full health, 972 below 75%, or 1197 below 50%
With Celestial=1587 aoe heal at full health, 1812 below 75%, or 2037 below 50%

This skill rocks. Blood magic with celestial rocks. I love rocks.

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Posted by: Infect.2738

Infect.2738

Your argument is wrong. The condi damage stat powers up the damage from transffered conditions,

This one is wrong.

How so?
From what I know whatever condition a necro transfers to another player uses that necromancer condition damage.

Funny enough, transfers use the original owner’s stats. That’s why its possible to kill things like engi’s with their own condition damage even though you could be running soldier. Its quite backwards.

And while cele necro isn’t bad, i don’t think its the strongest build still.

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Posted by: nearlight.3064

nearlight.3064

Blood magic doesn’t work very well with celestial. The siphons don’t scale well enough to be worth taking over the perma-weakness and PoC and plague sending in Curses. Transfusion is a good trait, but you honestly need to build much tankier if you want to take on the role of a primary rezzer.

Life from Death has a healing coefficient of 1.5, and works great with celestial.
Without celestial=747 aoe heal at full health, 972 below 75%, or 1197 below 50%
With Celestial=1587 aoe heal at full health, 1812 below 75%, or 2037 below 50%

This skill rocks. Blood magic with celestial rocks. I love rocks.

Regardless the role of the cele signet necromancer is to do 1v1s and +1 smaller fights. While blood gives you better support in teamfights, it fails to be as useful as curses in smaller fights, nor does it give any meaningful additional personal sustain in teamfights. If anything curses is better for teamfights simply for more condi bombs and weakening shroud to negate melee bursts.

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Posted by: Brando.1374

Brando.1374

Your argument is wrong. The condi damage stat powers up the damage from transffered conditions,

This one is wrong.

How so?
From what I know whatever condition a necro transfers to another player uses that necromancer condition damage.

Funny enough, transfers use the original owner’s stats. That’s why its possible to kill things like engi’s with their own condition damage even though you could be running soldier. Its quite backwards.

And while cele necro isn’t bad, i don’t think its the strongest build still.

Wow I really thought transferring conditions used the Necro’s condi damage and not the other players.

but then what would be the point of sending back conditions from power builds as they dont use the necro’s condi damage?

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Posted by: nearlight.3064

nearlight.3064

Well then I guess regarding transfers, I can admite being wrong since I’ve heard so many different things about it. Still I think it should use the necro’s condi damage (and also not allow rallies from transferring condis to someone else and stomping them first in a double down….).

As far as cele necro goes, its worked the best for me. I’ve tried to do well with condi builds so many times, but whenever I use them, I get destroyed. Condi reaper felt a lot better though due to stability, but I just don’t see myself as using condi specs on necro until robert gee fixes the scepter like he has alluded to.

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Posted by: getzzzonked.7609

getzzzonked.7609

Blood magic doesn’t work very well with celestial. The siphons don’t scale well enough to be worth taking over the perma-weakness and PoC and plague sending in Curses. Transfusion is a good trait, but you honestly need to build much tankier if you want to take on the role of a primary rezzer.

Life from Death has a healing coefficient of 1.5, and works great with celestial.
Without celestial=747 aoe heal at full health, 972 below 75%, or 1197 below 50%
With Celestial=1587 aoe heal at full health, 1812 below 75%, or 2037 below 50%

This skill rocks. Blood magic with celestial rocks. I love rocks.

Regardless the role of the cele signet necromancer is to do 1v1s and +1 smaller fights. While blood gives you better support in teamfights, it fails to be as useful as curses in smaller fights, nor does it give any meaningful additional personal sustain in teamfights. If anything curses is better for teamfights simply for more condi bombs and weakening shroud to negate melee bursts.

But I can 1v1 better on a rabid Condi build, with all the benefits on signets and might stacking. I can also provide more pressure, albeit off point.
I’m not arguing Curses vs Blood for Celestial. Not at all. I’m saying celestial stats aren’t utilised properly by the build that is up on meta battle, because, as you can see above, they aren’t. Okay, yeah I left out regen from staff 2, and we do have access to some conditions obviously. But yeah, my reasons for saying celestial is not a great build seem to be standing still. Everything people are saying they use their Cele Signetmancer for can be done with other Necromancer builds but better and faster (Yes, possibly including dying faster for power necros :P)

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Posted by: nearlight.3064

nearlight.3064

Blood magic doesn’t work very well with celestial. The siphons don’t scale well enough to be worth taking over the perma-weakness and PoC and plague sending in Curses. Transfusion is a good trait, but you honestly need to build much tankier if you want to take on the role of a primary rezzer.

Life from Death has a healing coefficient of 1.5, and works great with celestial.
Without celestial=747 aoe heal at full health, 972 below 75%, or 1197 below 50%
With Celestial=1587 aoe heal at full health, 1812 below 75%, or 2037 below 50%

This skill rocks. Blood magic with celestial rocks. I love rocks.

Regardless the role of the cele signet necromancer is to do 1v1s and +1 smaller fights. While blood gives you better support in teamfights, it fails to be as useful as curses in smaller fights, nor does it give any meaningful additional personal sustain in teamfights. If anything curses is better for teamfights simply for more condi bombs and weakening shroud to negate melee bursts.

But I can 1v1 better on a rabid Condi build, with all the benefits on signets and might stacking. I can also provide more pressure, albeit off point.
I’m not arguing Curses vs Blood for Celestial. Not at all. I’m saying celestial stats aren’t utilised properly by the build that is up on meta battle, because, as you can see above, they aren’t. Okay, yeah I left out regen from staff 2, and we do have access to some conditions obviously. But yeah, my reasons for saying celestial is not a great build seem to be standing still. Everything people are saying they use their Cele Signetmancer for can be done with other Necromancer builds but better and faster (Yes, possibly including dying faster for power necros :P)

Well I disagree that condi necro in its current state is better than cele, because condi is so weak to being focused and has very poor life force generation compared to celestial. It may be partially because I’ve grown used to playing tankier bruiser hybrids on other classes, so it makes more sense to me on necromancer.

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Posted by: Lightsbane.9012

Lightsbane.9012

I saw on metabattle.com that the celestial signet build is considered a meta build for ranked. I know the build is good and handles those pesky celes pretty well, but I wasn’t overly impressed with the other matchups I had with it.

What are your thoughts on this? Is this build really “meta”? What am I missing here?

you could just…not run it?

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Posted by: Tim.6450

Tim.6450

Your argument is wrong. The condi damage stat powers up the damage from transffered conditions,

This one is wrong.

How so?
From what I know whatever condition a necro transfers to another player uses that necromancer condition damage.

Funny enough, transfers use the original owner’s stats. That’s why its possible to kill things like engi’s with their own condition damage even though you could be running soldier. Its quite backwards.

And while cele necro isn’t bad, i don’t think its the strongest build still.

but then what would be the point of sending back conditions from power builds as they dont use the necro’s condi damage?

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Posted by: Lightsbane.9012

Lightsbane.9012

Your argument is wrong. The condi damage stat powers up the damage from transffered conditions,

This one is wrong.

How so?
From what I know whatever condition a necro transfers to another player uses that necromancer condition damage.

Funny enough, transfers use the original owner’s stats. That’s why its possible to kill things like engi’s with their own condition damage even though you could be running soldier. Its quite backwards.

And while cele necro isn’t bad, i don’t think its the strongest build still.

Wow I really thought transferring conditions used the Necro’s condi damage and not the other players.

but then what would be the point of sending back conditions from power builds as they dont use the necro’s condi damage?

……
…..
to cleanse them?

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As true as Odin’s spear flies,
There is nowhere to hide.

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Posted by: Salamander.2504

Salamander.2504

Blood magic doesn’t work very well with celestial. The siphons don’t scale well enough to be worth taking over the perma-weakness and PoC and plague sending in Curses. Transfusion is a good trait, but you honestly need to build much tankier if you want to take on the role of a primary rezzer.

Life from Death has a healing coefficient of 1.5, and works great with celestial.
Without celestial=747 aoe heal at full health, 972 below 75%, or 1197 below 50%
With Celestial=1587 aoe heal at full health, 1812 below 75%, or 2037 below 50%

This skill rocks. Blood magic with celestial rocks. I love rocks.

Regardless the role of the cele signet necromancer is to do 1v1s and +1 smaller fights. While blood gives you better support in teamfights, it fails to be as useful as curses in smaller fights, nor does it give any meaningful additional personal sustain in teamfights. If anything curses is better for teamfights simply for more condi bombs and weakening shroud to negate melee bursts.

That’s fine and all but I’m not advocating replacing Curses with Blood magic, just saying that Blood Magic is totally viable (and rewarding) with a Cele amulet. You can rack up ~6-8k heal every 30 seconds flashing Life from Death with Cele…which would be kind of like having a guardian meditation heal on a 7 second cooldown when flashing. To get even more offtopic but for the sake of build-theory and discussion, I’ll point out that the most viable replacement for Curses would be Death Magic (not Blood Magic) so that you can still clear condis (shrouded removal replaces plague sending) and receive damage mitigation (Beyond the Veil replaces Weakening Shroud).

In any case, the Meta Cele build isn’t the only viable option with Cele: the limitation on the role of the Meta Cele build you’ve outlined (1v1’s and +1’ing a fight) only applies to the Meta Build. Add in Blood Magic and you’ve got a different build with a different role. No less viable, and no less fun. Cheers.

(edited by Salamander.2504)

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Posted by: Brando.1374

Brando.1374

Your argument is wrong. The condi damage stat powers up the damage from transffered conditions,

This one is wrong.

How so?
From what I know whatever condition a necro transfers to another player uses that necromancer condition damage.

Funny enough, transfers use the original owner’s stats. That’s why its possible to kill things like engi’s with their own condition damage even though you could be running soldier. Its quite backwards.

And while cele necro isn’t bad, i don’t think its the strongest build still.

Wow I really thought transferring conditions used the Necro’s condi damage and not the other players.

but then what would be the point of sending back conditions from power builds as they dont use the necro’s condi damage?

……
…..
to cleanse them?

lol aside from that, I was always under the impression that if lets say a P/D thief loaded me with bleeds I can xfer them to him with my condi damage as most of the time I was running over 2k condi dmg (WvW).

I guess I was wrong, well at least I learned something new today.

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Posted by: Atherakhia.4086

Atherakhia.4086

While it’s true the Necro is part of the meta, it’s important to understand why they’re part of the meta.

Is the class strong enough to earn its place by being able to adapt to multiple scenarios? Or is it part of the meta because of some small, unique niche that if it were removed, the class would be irrelevant.

Unfortunately in both WvW and PvP, it’s the second one.

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Posted by: Shaogin.2679

Shaogin.2679

It’s not meta at all, it was just used by the Abjured during their win in Cologne. Metabattle users decided that one team using it to win the WTS means it’s a frequently used build lots of players should use, and thus named it meta.

Whoah there….

Why hasn’t this been updated to be in the Meta category rather the Great category? Noscoc clearly used this build in the ESL Go4 Guild Wars 2 Cup: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMcouNb1oiY —Velimere (talk • contribs)
1 guy running this build is not “meta”, meta here means common builds at high tier. On EU there’re barely any necs, on NA there’s a bit more though. Let’s wait until this week’s cup before making any changes. —Necromancer Icon Color.pngHanz(talk) 06:41, 23 July 2015 (UTC)

This was taken directly from the build’s discussion page. All of these things go through a voting process and are constantly monitored and updated. If anyone feels anything is inaccurate the proper thing to do would be to join discussions and contribute to the site to make it a better resource for everyone instead of putting out such a discrediting statement.

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Posted by: Bhawb.7408

Bhawb.7408

Funny enough, transfers use the original owner’s stats. That’s why its possible to kill things like engi’s with their own condition damage even though you could be running soldier. Its quite backwards.

And while cele necro isn’t bad, i don’t think its the strongest build still.

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Posted by: Rising Dusk.2408

Rising Dusk.2408

This was taken directly from the build’s discussion page. All of these things go through a voting process and are constantly monitored and updated. If anyone feels anything is inaccurate the proper thing to do would be to join discussions and contribute to the site to make it a better resource for everyone instead of putting out such a discrediting statement.

I agreed with MetaBattle’s “meta” ranking back when it was simply representative of the most common great builds you’re liable to see when playing PvP and encountering that specific class. For a good long while now it has simply represented what gets used in tournament level play and is not indicative of the actual arena metas. It was argued against a long time ago and the MetaBattle community felt the current approach was better, so here we are.

I only use that website for a build reference, so at this point it doesn’t matter enough for me to start and try to fuel discussions about what is or isn’t meta. All I did in my previous post is call it like it is; meta on MetaBattle is what is used in tournaments, not what is actually the best or what is actually used most frequently in arenas.

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Posted by: Lynnie.7213

Lynnie.7213

I think its a strong build. One of the strongest in spvp atm, but i don’t call it meta. In fact, i don’t call any build meta. One build can work for me but doesn’t mean it will work for everyone else. Play what you like, what fit in your playstyle!

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Posted by: Aenesthesia.1697

Aenesthesia.1697

i tried it after the patch and didnt like it. Still, i keep playing it to see if i get the hang of it.

1on1: ok, burn guards suicide against me, and i can finally outlast those pesky celes IF they don’t get help, which they will because i do less damage than with power necro. Thieves are now unkillable (decent ones, of course) as i lack the burst and they disengage. Same with mesmers, since my aoe is much worse than with power necro.

Team fights: i can call the shots by debuffing people and once i get the 25 stacks of might going i feel like i do some damage. i can take some damage, too, and i can stomp non mobile professions thanks to plague (for when i really need to stomp)

Holding a point: i used to run if i saw 2 guys coming at me. No i can call for help and hold my own for a bit while also dealing some damage (with the condi build i could also take some damage, but my pressure was too low). That’s an improvement.

So we have become a jack of many trades. We have good condition management, good attrition capabilities, and we hard counter some awful builds. I wouldn’t say we hardcounter celes because they still take too long to kill.

All in all, we are in a position where we don’t get clearly outclassed in everything we do, so we could have a place in the meta.

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Posted by: Lightsbane.9012

Lightsbane.9012

Your argument is wrong. The condi damage stat powers up the damage from transffered conditions,

This one is wrong.

How so?
From what I know whatever condition a necro transfers to another player uses that necromancer condition damage.

Funny enough, transfers use the original owner’s stats. That’s why its possible to kill things like engi’s with their own condition damage even though you could be running soldier. Its quite backwards.

And while cele necro isn’t bad, i don’t think its the strongest build still.

Wow I really thought transferring conditions used the Necro’s condi damage and not the other players.

but then what would be the point of sending back conditions from power builds as they dont use the necro’s condi damage?

……
…..
to cleanse them?

lol aside from that, I was always under the impression that if lets say a P/D thief loaded me with bleeds I can xfer them to him with my condi damage as most of the time I was running over 2k condi dmg (WvW).

I guess I was wrong, well at least I learned something new today.

most condi (insert class) don’t tend to be able to deal well with condi transfers to be honest. So i think the plague signet is a must( and soon ’suffer) in wvw.

As quick as the Valkyries ride,
As true as Odin’s spear flies,
There is nowhere to hide.

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Posted by: Nyth.3492

Nyth.3492

The definition of “meta” isn’t really set in stone (let alone the fact it’s the wrong term to use IMO, but that aside).

For me “meta” means that it’s a really popular build that you’ll see in nearly all matches.
Shatter mesmer, D/D ele, P/D thief, etc. You’ll see one of those in nearly every match.

To me Cele necro is a great build, but not really meta.
To be frank, In the tournaments it often felt like a relative weak link in the team composition. And I think the main motive to take a cele necro is twofold:
1) To have a bunker that can play a bit more offensive (than say a bunker guardian) if needed. Granted, other classes can do this too.
2a) Have a counter vs condition builds in general.
2b) Have a counter vs a lot of upcoming and standing meta builds (e.g. condi engi / burn guardian / etc)