Necro, Cond or Zerk?

Necro, Cond or Zerk?

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Posted by: Rennoko.5731

Rennoko.5731

Torment has its own ICD, apart from everything else, I tested it against like 4 different on effect sigils. If blood or earth procs, and you swap immediately to a on-swap sigil, it WILL NOT proc the swap effect. Torment on the other hand can proc beside earth, and will not interfere with on swap if you go say torment/battle – battle.

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Posted by: Karazul.2934

Karazul.2934

the 50% crit chance from DS XII , is it a flat 50% or is it 50% of your current crit chance?

Its +50% but ive said this countless times before. DS isnt good for dps even with capped 99% crit chance. If you want to min max necro dps you want to max dagger dps. So going 25 in curses is a must. Having said that, with the buff to strength of undeath coming next patch I may be altering the build to 20/25/0/0/25. There are a few variants I need to check before I update the build though.

Whats the buff to strength of undeath? I tryied the search and couldnt find.

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Posted by: Dietzen.6127

Dietzen.6127

it depends on how you prefer to play and game mode

for me,
Dungeons: 30/10/0/0/30 Full zerker

why not 30/25/0/0/15?

Since its zerker build why should i go through curses line?!

dagger dps>life blast dps (well… sort of)

curses for damage modification from condis on target (theres also banshees wail, reapers precision and enfeebling shroud) and base crit rate

deathly perception (considering with zerker you should be at ~50% crit rate) wastes group fury, banners and spotter

axe/dagger with sigil of earth and sigil of torment (shh its new don’t let on to it)
staff (also torment)

all sigil ICDs are shared… if your earth triggers then torment wont until sigil of earth is off CD

Torment is currently off of sigil ICD.

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Posted by: Rennoko.5731

Rennoko.5731

It does have an ICD with itself though, so you cannot use two for double the proc rate.

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Posted by: Dietzen.6127

Dietzen.6127

It does have an ICD with itself though, so you cannot use two for double the proc rate.

Would be awesome if you could double proc

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Posted by: Lily.1935

Lily.1935

A Zerker has a higher burst while the Condi has a higher sustain. Sustain and AOE are what I tend to value most considering how frequently I run fractals and dungeon.

Zerker necro doesnt have burst. It has sustained high single target dps and burst aoe. The burst aoe is less dps on a single target than the regular dagger rotation. Also a good player wont have any downtime on zerk necro dps in full melee.

Condi does have better sustained aoe and thats a reason to consider it for certain fractals. Everywhere else zerker is better.

They mentioned axe and staff in their talk about zerker builds so at best they might be using a 30/x/x/x/30 build and counting axe 2 and DS 4 as burst. I don’t recall them talking about dagger at all until the 30/25/0/0/15 build was mentioned by SolemnMalevolence, which apparently takes competitive fighting game type reflexes to play. If it was some kind of axe/staff build that was used it’s no wonder the DPS was low.

I’ve known people who like to play zerker with staff in WvW. I personally don’t like using staff as anything besides a defensive/control weapon. So that is why I mentioned it. My Zerker build is 30/10/0/0/30 and it is quite burst. The Dagger does match the damage of life blast if no wells are up. However, being up close in PvE isn’t ideal in most situations especially with 1.8k armor. So this is why I call it burst damage because their sustained damage is suicide. If they can do it, more power to them.

My weapon Choice for Zerker is Main weapons Axe+Focus secondary weapon Dagger+Warhorn.

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Posted by: Lily.1935

Lily.1935

sigil of earth has no in game listed cool down and I have had both go off on a target. This is the only reason I run both.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sigil_of_Superior_Earth
2s ICD (too lazy to personally test)

It does have a cool down. Unfortunate side effect of this is it negates Sigil of Energy. Which I haven’t gotten around to suggesting arena net to fix this.

I will rerun my tests tonight, yet I have not had earth sigil effect any other sigil I have uses in the past. I will run unspeced and test on mobs tonight.

It has effected me. Considering I use both the earth sigil on my dagger and sigil of energy on my staff. Test it if you like.

I did and it did not effect torment sigil. This may be an issue with torment sigil thou.

I can’t say. All I know is that I won’t get my energy back when I switch to my staff sometimes. Which has really been putting me in some undesirable tight spots as of late.

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Posted by: SolemnMalevolence.5248

SolemnMalevolence.5248

A Zerker has a higher burst while the Condi has a higher sustain. Sustain and AOE are what I tend to value most considering how frequently I run fractals and dungeon.

Zerker necro doesnt have burst. It has sustained high single target dps and burst aoe. The burst aoe is less dps on a single target than the regular dagger rotation. Also a good player wont have any downtime on zerk necro dps in full melee.

Condi does have better sustained aoe and thats a reason to consider it for certain fractals. Everywhere else zerker is better.

They mentioned axe and staff in their talk about zerker builds so at best they might be using a 30/x/x/x/30 build and counting axe 2 and DS 4 as burst. I don’t recall them talking about dagger at all until the 30/25/0/0/15 build was mentioned by SolemnMalevolence, which apparently takes competitive fighting game type reflexes to play. If it was some kind of axe/staff build that was used it’s no wonder the DPS was low.

I’ve known people who like to play zerker with staff in WvW. I personally don’t like using staff as anything besides a defensive/control weapon. So that is why I mentioned it. My Zerker build is 30/10/0/0/30 and it is quite burst. The Dagger does match the damage of life blast if no wells are up. However, being up close in PvE isn’t ideal in most situations especially with 1.8k armor. So this is why I call it burst damage because their sustained damage is suicide. If they can do it, more power to them.

My weapon Choice for Zerker is Main weapons Axe+Focus secondary weapon Dagger+Warhorn.

That might’ve been where your misunderstanding was coming from. o: The primary zerker build is 30/25/0/0/15. At least, as far as dealing the most damage goes. You mostly use dagger/warhorn for dealing all of your damage, and there’s no burst involved. You’ll be dealing consistent damage with the dagger auto-attack. When I played it, I occasionally switched to axe/focus strictly for applying vulnerability if whatever I was attacking didn’t have 25 stacks, and maybe using axe #2, and from my understanding, that’s how most people play it.

It actually does quite a bit of damage, especially in group settings. And unlike the death-shroud centric build you don’t have to worry about life force too much and your damage output isn’t controlled by how easy of a time you’ll have staying in death shroud and controlling your life force in any given fight. Using axe/focus, or death shroud itself as the primary method of dealing damage tends to give either lesser or downright lackluster results from when I tried a build like that.

I lose my hold. I will let go.

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Posted by: Lily.1935

Lily.1935

A Zerker has a higher burst while the Condi has a higher sustain. Sustain and AOE are what I tend to value most considering how frequently I run fractals and dungeon.

Zerker necro doesnt have burst. It has sustained high single target dps and burst aoe. The burst aoe is less dps on a single target than the regular dagger rotation. Also a good player wont have any downtime on zerk necro dps in full melee.

Condi does have better sustained aoe and thats a reason to consider it for certain fractals. Everywhere else zerker is better.

They mentioned axe and staff in their talk about zerker builds so at best they might be using a 30/x/x/x/30 build and counting axe 2 and DS 4 as burst. I don’t recall them talking about dagger at all until the 30/25/0/0/15 build was mentioned by SolemnMalevolence, which apparently takes competitive fighting game type reflexes to play. If it was some kind of axe/staff build that was used it’s no wonder the DPS was low.

I’ve known people who like to play zerker with staff in WvW. I personally don’t like using staff as anything besides a defensive/control weapon. So that is why I mentioned it. My Zerker build is 30/10/0/0/30 and it is quite burst. The Dagger does match the damage of life blast if no wells are up. However, being up close in PvE isn’t ideal in most situations especially with 1.8k armor. So this is why I call it burst damage because their sustained damage is suicide. If they can do it, more power to them.

My weapon Choice for Zerker is Main weapons Axe+Focus secondary weapon Dagger+Warhorn.

That might’ve been where your misunderstanding was coming from. o: The primary zerker build is 30/25/0/0/15. At least, as far as dealing the most damage goes. You mostly use dagger/warhorn for dealing all of your damage, and there’s no burst involved. You’ll be dealing consistent damage with the dagger auto-attack. When I played it, I occasionally switched to axe/focus strictly for applying vulnerability if whatever I was attacking didn’t have 25 stacks, and maybe using axe #2, and from my understanding, that’s how most people play it.

It actually does quite a bit of damage, especially in group settings. And unlike the death-shroud centric build you don’t have to worry about life force too much and your damage output isn’t controlled by how easy of a time you’ll have staying in death shroud and controlling your life force in any given fight. Using axe/focus, or death shroud itself as the primary method of dealing damage tends to give either lesser or downright lackluster results from when I tried a build like that.

Oh the damage for 30/10/0/0/30 is outstanding! Maintaining lifeforce isn’t a problem provided you have a good team. Not only that, if one of the buffs the necro is getting is true, maintaining life force will be even easier then before. Vital Persistence going from 25% to 50% is huge. I like this build because its one of the only ones that is actually good and cares about being in death shroud for longer then a few seconds.

I’m not unhappy with the build at all. I really like it. Its just regardless of what you do, if its 30/25/0/0/15 or 30/10/0/0/30 the weakness is going to be the same and yes, you will have very bursty damage if you can’t maintain melee range. Which is often the case I’ve noticed.

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Posted by: SolemnMalevolence.5248

SolemnMalevolence.5248

The one thing I liked about 30/10/0/0/30 is that it was so Death Shroud-centric. I really wanted to play something that utilizied our mechanic as much as possible, so that’s one thing the build had going for it. I’ve always thought Death Shroud, as a concept, was pretty cool. I’m not so sure about Vital Persistence though…life force may decay slower, but damage taken will drop it just as quickly, and that tended to be what pre-emptively ended my Death Shroud duration more than it just running out.

I lose my hold. I will let go.

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Posted by: Asche.5362

Asche.5362

And so OP trolled everyone into bickering.

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Posted by: spoj.9672

spoj.9672

When the patch goes live my updated build will be using DS a bit more to give maximum dps. You will still be flashing DS most of the time but it has a bit more emphasis on DS traits.

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Posted by: Rennoko.5731

Rennoko.5731

When the patch goes live my updated build will be using DS a bit more to give maximum dps. You will still be flashing DS most of the time but it has a bit more emphasis on DS traits.

Saddly I don’t think it will change anything for me. I tried for a few days to make a full on POWER build work and it just isn’t for me…. Or perhaps the very small group I run with makes it not-viable.

I will still be running 30/20/0/0/20 because the only reasonable trade-off I would make would make involves a significant improvement to siphons or deathmagic, both on the maybe list for next go around, sometime in Q1 of next year.

That being said, I have gone back to a proc based build with more rabid, and I find it more enjoyable than straight dire/scavenging.

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Posted by: Lily.1935

Lily.1935

The one thing I liked about 30/10/0/0/30 is that it was so Death Shroud-centric. I really wanted to play something that utilizied our mechanic as much as possible, so that’s one thing the build had going for it. I’ve always thought Death Shroud, as a concept, was pretty cool. I’m not so sure about Vital Persistence though…life force may decay slower, but damage taken will drop it just as quickly, and that tended to be what pre-emptively ended my Death Shroud duration more than it just running out.

I actually run out of life force just as much as it getting dropped. Its okay. At 25% it isn’t that great but I don’t have any other trait I really want in that place. Once it is buffed to 50% you should really start noticing the difference.