Like it or not, the necro will always be balanced by our aoe capabilities, and will shine best in situations that take advantage of those capabilities (namely group/zerg wvw and pve). As a necro who primarily runs in a group of 5-10 in wvw, and does the occasional dungeon in pve, I am very happy with my character.
I switch back and forth between power/wells and conditions/corruptions in wvw, but I usually run conditions in pve (well recharge rate is somewhat limiting there). I don’t understand the complaints about damage in pve. It’s fairly easy to set up a quick 20-25 aoe bleed stack, which melts mobs (for instance, mark of blood→mark of evasion→weakening shroud→geomancy sigil→scepter 2→epidemic).
I haven’t done a cof speed run or fractals past 30 (got bored), but I’ve done dungeon master and all the holiday/living story content and can’t imagine many situations where a good necro wouldn’t be effective.
Sabetha Sylvanshade, Sylvari Necromancer
Beatrice The Bloody, Norn Engineer
Gate of Madness
I’m inclined to agree with the OP about this class being fine but it may just be that it suits me really well and I have a build that lets me do what I want in this game. The fact that I have more fun at this class than others probably influences my opinion too.
I use condys on my engi, dont use condys on my necro because they are so subpar to my engi, had a duel with bunker ranger with my engineer, with water fields combo our duel lasted a good 30 mins before someone else came in and killed me (in wvw) so i thought i’d try against him on my necro, tried condys (pet takes all condys so was kitten power and even an odd type of bunker, i just didnt have the sustain no matter what build i used, i couldnt dodge as much as he could to avoid my key skills. I had NOTHING on him, yet my engineer could hold his own against most i go against.
im not saying that game should be balanced around 1v1’s in wvw or pvp, but its clear to so many that the necro is lacking alot more than any other class in mostly every area.
We can agree that engi is in a lot of ways more fun to play than necro. I might agree that 1v1 engi is better, except that things like MM and power spectral builds exist and are good, so maybe there’d be some dispute. I might also agree that condi damage is better on engi than necro, but I don’t play condi builds because I don’t think condi damage is terribly effective in wvw, and you can get all the non-damage condi effects without giving up direct damage.
I’d argue that it is indisputable that necro is far better at large scale wvw than engi for a variety of reasons, including death shroud, plague form, and condition clearing. The mix of durability, long range AOE damage, and zerg busting potential you get with necro is totally effective, and I don’t think that the engi can match it. I think that there is a reason why I see wvw guilds advertise for necros and not engis.
Finally, I’d argue that if and when extended staff AOE radius becomes baseline, necro wvw will become ridiculously good because substantial investment in soul reaping will be possible while going 30/20 in spite and curses. That’s a different topic tho…
A) you suck at jumping puzzles and harpy fractal DS/Swalk trick, your arguments are invalid (little starting joke/half truth)
B) Necros are the only ones that can legally (as in without exploits) go above 50 in factals because of how DS and conditions/agony/non direct damage ticks work (especially with 50% off DS and flesh wurm/sgrasp and they can also get multiple hammers on blue man group giant allowing for more glitchy fast finish of the final seal)
C) I still think shade should replace foot in the grave… (at least by effect) aslo maybe change out DS from black leather textures to Orr wraith/small lich for norn/Baelfire in green for charr.
A). I don’t just suck at jumping puzzles. I am completely inept at them where if they were to hold a contest to see if I can finish any of them without falling off I would never win :P. The Fractal thing was lag issues galore, my connection was so bad it was like seeing a 3d movie without glasses ;p.
B). I was under the impression that DS now forces you to drop the hammer? Is this not correct? I will take your word for it though since you are the dungeon king. Which btw, they really need to give a title to the three or four people like Andele who have not only done every dungeon, but spent an inordinate amount of time playing them that they can recite the actual statements of the boss mobs while going through it. I am totally pumped to watch Gibbly run with you in one of the Dungeon runs.
C). I would have to agree with you on this one. I just want the graphics to be visible enough that I don’t try and heal necros in DS.
I’d like to meet the people who said that Necro is an incredibly powerful and versatile class and listen to their reasoning.
Anyway, the math behind the dps calculation of the Necro/Warrior is just wrong.
Warriors can deal 5k damage only with a Greatsword swing while stacking vulnerability or 4k per axe hit, which is actually faster, but without vulnerability.
Assuming that you’re running Dagger MH, you are doing less damage without stacking vulnerability, about 1k for each of the first hits, 1.5k the 3rd and 3k on the 4th, which is 6.5k. So a full dagger chain is one hit and an half of an axe warrior.
If you are using Axe MH, your damage is even lower. You hardly hit 1.5k with a full autoattack and never deal more than 8k damage with Ghastly Claws.
Well of Suffering is just a little unreliable (because it is a PBAoE) damage boost on a 45s cooldown.
Do you really think they are on par damage-wise? Seriously, get real.
Where are you getting your numbers from? I hit almost 2k on a full berzerker axe auto, my axe 2 channel properly specced hits 9k easily on bosses, and I have seen numbers as high as 17k with proper setup.
Dagger Chain can hit upwards of 13k if you are properly specced and geared. Your numbers are all over the map you toss numbers about Warriors with gear numbers, and then throw out Necro numbers from ungeared?
Dagger chain plus wells will wipe out any single person who doesn’t get out if it. I have seen 20-27k get dropped off a player in the middle of a double well/dagger 1 chain. Can we do the 30k in one single skill no, but I wouldn’t want the amount of fragility and lack of control the warrior has during that chain either..
haha, 450 hours haha, glad that makes you an expert haha. I have 450 hours on my second 80. I have close to 1000 hours on my Necro. You sir are as far from correct as can possibly be.
The Necro is crazy strong when played right. It is easily played in every facet of pve, the only reason you wouldn’t bring one past rank 40 in Fractals is because reflects are so necessary.
In wvwvw, you are incredibly strong when playing with the right team.
In mid to low level tournament play, Necro’s will make or break a team. Where they fail, is in highly mobile fights that require escapes in order to survive. I.E. High end Tournament play. That’s the only place that their negatives outweigh their positives. While thieves who most claim own wvwvw are never seen in high end pve except as stealth bots to get you past mobs.
I am so glad your 450 hours made you an expert, because that means my close to 1000 hours makes me the king of all Necromancer knowledge.
Seriously guys, listen to the But of Corpse podcasts, there are players from every facet of the game playing the Necromancer at high levels. The only place they seem to struggle is highly mobile fights. Unfortunately that is tournament play and strike squads in wvwvw two of the most visible forms of play.
So you think someone who played 450 hours of a certain class cannot have any idea of how that class operates? Or that their opinion isn’t as valid as yours? You have a disgusting view of other’s opinions and that gives merit to my not watching your podcasts. Your advertising of that podcast has no place on the Necromancer forum and even more so when you discredit someone who has devoted 450 hours to a class. At least they aren’t ignorant.
Where are you getting your numbers from? I hit almost 2k on a full berzerker axe auto, my axe 2 channel properly specced hits 9k easily on bosses, and I have seen numbers as high as 17k with proper setup.
Dagger Chain can hit upwards of 13k if you are properly specced and geared. Your numbers are all over the map you toss numbers about Warriors with gear numbers, and then throw out Necro numbers from ungeared?
Dagger chain plus wells will wipe out any single person who doesn’t get out if it. I have seen 20-27k get dropped off a player in the middle of a double well/dagger 1 chain. Can we do the 30k in one single skill no, but I wouldn’t want the amount of fragility and lack of control the warrior has during that chain either..
1. I hit almost on 2k -> About 1.5k.
2. My Axe 2 hits 9k easily -> Quite a big difference from 8k. The only time I’ve seen more than 9k (17k) from Ghastly Claws is on a Nemesis video of a glass cannon build with 9 stacks of might, food and potion buffs and 15 stacks of vulnerability on the enemy and a full bloodlust. If you have any other video proof backing up what you’re saying I’d like to see it.
Look what a warrior is capable to do damage-wise: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAK-QYShjro
Keep in mind that Hundred Blades channeling is just half a second longer.
Why aren’t there all Necromancer in that speed-kill build? Do you think that if they brought Necromancers instead of warriors they would have made a better time?
3. Necro has way less damage boosting traits. Despite the fact that the base damage is similiar, they have less way to boost them via traits.
GW2 is still in its infancy, as far as the metagame goes.
It may not make it out of its infancy if they don’t get solid balance and more unique match dynamics. You can’t compare GW2 to LoL, the biggest eSport type game going. Compared to what Anet dreamed and hoped for this game, the sPVP is practically on life support. And of course the issues of class balance extend far beyond just that mode of the game.
The comment just made by the dev over in the sPVP forum, that Necro is not going to be touched for over a month because the next patch is a bug fix one, just isn’t nearly good enough. Not combined with their snail crawl pace attitude toward tweaking. The Necro was given a sledgehammer nerf in beta, so putting one piece of scotch tape on it every 2 months isn’t going to get the profession back up to snuff in any acceptable time. Not everyone wants to roll up a thief or mesmer, or whatever, to 80 till it gets fixed either. Though far too many have already done that.
It may not make it out of its infancy if they don’t get solid balance and more unique match dynamics. You can’t compare GW2 to LoL, the biggest eSport type game going. Compared to what Anet dreamed and hoped for this game, the sPVP is practically on life support.
If ANet wants GW2 to be as big an eSport as LoL, then we absolutely should be comparing the two.
I main Ele and Necro, though I have an alt of each profession at level 80. How to Condi Reaper on a budget
Everything I say is only in reference to PvE and WvW.
Keep in mind that Hundred Blades channeling is just half a second longer.
Why aren’t there all Necromancer in that speed-kill build? Do you think that if they brought Necromancers instead of warriors they would have made a better time?
3. Necro has way less damage boosting traits. Despite the fact that the base damage is similiar, they have less way to boost them via traits.
The time difference between a Necro run and a run with warriors is maybe a minute. That’s all. The biggest difference is that a warrior with 100b dies quickly if he screws up. The Necro doesn’t.
As for your last point you are correct. The traits we do have that boost damage are subpar boosts compared to other classes.
wtf lol bas your reasoning is dumb. Yes i troll alot btw, check my posts i do it alot.
Here’s the facts for ya, he said hes casual, he said the necro is fine, he said he’s read all posts on it.
How many people are saying the necro is bad atm?
If he actually did read the posts then would know dam well that the necro doesn’t even compete with most other classes, him saying otherwise being OBLIVIOUS to the situation isnt helping no one, kitten man grow some balls and talk about how bad the class is, maybe some criticism is what is needed around here for the devs to finally pull their fingers out.
I never said based on my 450 hours, I said that my necro has 450 hours, i regret every seconds wasted on it because my engineer which i’ve not played nearly as much is so much better. if you actually read my post ….
I would never disregard someones opinion based on game time played since most people’s playtimes are probably from them afking in LA.
edit: lol deleted posts? hide the shame
Klaus Night (Necro)/ Elvahaduken (Engi) [TaG] Gunnars Hold
Thank you for completely missing the point, and being so high up on your horse you missed the completely obvious. Thank you for proving my point.
I berated the man for stating that his 450 hours meant he was qualified to completely run roughshod over a casual players perception. Your inabiltiy to understand that and your history of historonics on anyone who ever disagrees with you is humorous and before you come down on me, you should take a look at every post you have made in every other forum you venture.
I have seen you in multiple forums with never once contributing anything substantial except a litany of complaints against whatever you feel is wrong at that time. You have yet to prove yourself in any form or manner outside of legitimately attacking anyone who feels the need to talk about how good GW2 is currently and where they feel it is going.
Thank you again for once again contributing to another contribution in your amazingly thoughtful and helpful ways.
haha, 450 hours haha, glad that makes you an expert haha. I have 450 hours on my second 80. I have close to 1000 hours on my Necro. You sir are as far from correct as can possibly be.
I am so glad your 450 hours made you an expert, because that means my close to 1000 hours makes me the king of all Necromancer knowledge.
Seriously guys, listen to the But of Corpse podcasts,
Were you drunk when you posted this? I’ve listened to some of the podcasts and they’re fine, but your post really makes you sound like a jerk.
The colors really show when the gloves come off. I’ve contributed more to the Necromancer than you have in your “podcasts”.
And who set the standard on how many hours makes one an expert on Necromancer? You?
Your ad hominims are going noticed. Even you, I see, edited (seen in bold) your original post because you feel shameful for linking such nasty comments with your precious podcast.
haha, 450 hours haha, glad that makes you an expert haha. I have 450 hours on my second 80. I have close to 1000 hours on my Necro. You sir are as far from correct as can possibly be.
The Necro is crazy strong when played right. It is easily played in every facet of pve, the only reason you wouldn’t bring one past rank 40 in Fractals is because reflects are so necessary.
In wvwvw, you are incredibly strong when playing with the right team.
In mid to low level tournament play, Necro’s will make or break a team. Where they fail, is in highly mobile fights that require escapes in order to survive. I.E. High end Tournament play. That’s the only place that their negatives outweigh their positives. While thieves who most claim own wvwvw are never seen in high end pve except as stealth bots to get you past mobs.
I am so glad your 450 hours made you an expert, because that means my close to 1000 hours makes me the king of all Necromancer knowledge.
Seriously guys, listen to the But of Corpse podcasts, there are players from every facet of the game playing the Necromancer at high levels. The only place they seem to struggle is highly mobile fights. Unfortunately that is tournament play and strike squads in wvwvw two of the most visible forms of play.
You realize of course that this post does yourself, not to mention the BoC podcast, a rather large disservice, yes? Honestly, resorting to Bas-eless (pun intended, this is truly uncharacteristic for you) ad hominem attacks to force your point across is uncalled for.
wtf lol bas your reasoning is dumb. Yes i troll alot btw, check my posts i do it alot.
Here’s the facts for ya, he said hes casual, he said the necro is fine, he said he’s read all posts on it.
How many people are saying the necro is bad atm?
If he actually did read the posts then would know dam well that the necro doesn’t even compete with most other classes, him saying otherwise being OBLIVIOUS to the situation isnt helping no one, kitten man grow some balls and talk about how bad the class is, maybe some criticism is what is needed around here for the devs to finally pull their fingers out.
I never said based on my 450 hours, I said that my necro has 450 hours, i regret every seconds wasted on it because my engineer which i’ve not played nearly as much is so much better. if you actually read my post ….
I would never disregard someones opinion based on game time played since most people’s playtimes are probably from them afking in LA.
edit: lol deleted posts? hide the shame
I deleted a certain part of my post. I believe yoru bobjoe guy probably reported the other post and it was removed. I have no reason to hide my opinion of your buddy bobbyjo. His historincs are well known.
I simply pointed out that if his opinion was not as valid as yours than mine most be worth at least three times what yours is.
BTW, the posts are being removed by moderators. I didn’t delete the entire post, I was simply asked to remove a certain part of the comment by someone whose opinion I respect so I did.
I do not know Bobjoe, his opinion you created yourself mate.
pls re read my post, do i say anywhere that I, based on my 450 hours exp think that his opinion is worthless, re read my last post past all the trolling, seriously its all just the truth about necros atm
Klaus Night (Necro)/ Elvahaduken (Engi) [TaG] Gunnars Hold
I do not know Bobjoe, his opinion you created yourself mate.
pls re read my post, do i say anywhere that I, based on my 450 hours exp think that his opinion is worthless, re read my last post past all the trolling, seriously its all just the truth about necros atm
The Engineer might be your cup of tea than, but I know engineers who feel they have wasted their entire time on a class they feel is broken as well.
The Necromancer in pve and wvwvw is fine except in strike force situations or in it’s ability to escape. It has major issues in certain maps and team comps in tournament play, but it is not broken or underpowered in any manner.
The reason engineers are favored over Necromancers in touranment play is they have a larger volume of condition damage skills meaning it’s tougher to clear the painful ones, and they can apply the damage ones faster. Plus they can disengage.
The ability to disengage and reapply condition damage abilities faster makes the engineer better for torunament play comps. Most teams don’t want to babysit a class which is why you will never see a warrior, and will rarely see a Necro.
However to say they are worse is incorrect. The class does an amazing amount of pressure, and Terror gives the necro some serious burst. They just can’t disengage by themselves which is what’s important.
You’ve said it yourself, an engi can play a condy build better than a necro, a thief would be better than a power necro, a guardian would be better than a bunker necro, why should someone take a necro over another class from a min max perspective. If esports is the way anet wants this game to go then they NEED to achieve decent balance, and if certain classes are so subpar that no team is willing to run them without needing to babysit then what’s the point, just take another class and be rid of that worry.
Klaus Night (Necro)/ Elvahaduken (Engi) [TaG] Gunnars Hold
You’ve said it yourself, an engi can play a condy build better than a necro, a thief would be better than a power necro, a guardian would be better than a bunker necro, why should someone take a necro over another class from a min max perspective. If esports is the way anet wants this game to go then they NEED to achieve decent balance, and if certain classes are so subpar that no team is willing to run them without needing to babysit then what’s the point, just take another class and be rid of that worry.
Guardian, Rangers, and Mesmer’s are all better Bunker’s than the Necro. I wouldn’t say a Thief is better than a power necro as both are really easy to counter. A shatter Mesmer is better than a power Necro. A condi engineer is better than a condi necro in specific maps and team comps. A necro can apply the pressure if you have the right team comp.
I whole heartedly agree that there are certain classes that need to be looked at for highest levels of play. However the class is not broken it just needs some tweaking. The car didnt’ break down it just needs it’s tires rotated and the engine tuned up so to speak.
All classes have counters – engineers can be taken out completely by a good ele or mesmer Check out the EU MotM. As soon as Teldo ran into a good ele he was useless. A good Necro can take down a good ele especially in a team fight.
I think his point was, if 450 hours makes you an authority on a profession, then 1000 hours makes you more of an authority.
I main Ele and Necro, though I have an alt of each profession at level 80. How to Condi Reaper on a budget
Everything I say is only in reference to PvE and WvW.
I think his point was, if 450 hours makes you an authority on a profession, then 1000 hours makes you more of an authority.
That was my point, I didn’t mean it as he had no opinion of the matter, but I think we have both come to the conclusion that neither of us stated our point correctly, and wanted to try talking about the Necro’s place in torunaments, but thank you!
Lux was never shunned for low burst nor dps (since she had both), she is/was/will be despite short popularity spike because all her skills are skillshots what wasnt good in the mobility era but is nice now in the age of assassins and was ok in bruiser beatown times. Just as amumu/morg/kennen in aoe spam fests, etc
Also ap tryn/ap yi, ad malza, jungle karth/cass, etc are/were never really op, it are just pubstomp/one trick pony builds,
AP Tryndamere only got nerfed when he started wreaking havoc in LCS. Voyboy was one of the first professional AP Trynds but then other professionals started kicking kitten with him as well.
AP Tryndamere’s major problem was that he had absolutely no counterplay, in addition to being absurdly good at splitpushing. The former’s not a major game-wide problem until the meta shifted to pushing, which it did. Then he got some of his counterplay returned.
1. GG himself said thakittens just ability basis (as in brand and Lux are 3 times lower because their passive effects do not count in on the burst) and that no CDR is included in the calculation *aka luxes main stat for spam lazors* and the unreliable part (as in all skillshots) directly means she deals no damage since she can miss it all vs a high mobility team.
2. Ap tyrn was a problem because semi burst comps weren’t viable at the time, thus wrecking everything, also kite power still owns tyn as a whole (take graggy/cho/elise/graves/taric/ryze vs AP tryn and you will dominate because of hard counter, but you will have a really hard time later on since your team will be a wild mix), its the same as saying AD nidalee was a problem (and then boom, ranged adc tops owning nidlz and the true bruisers for 3 months).
When life gives you lemon, ask if its from a anime or manga.
1. GG himself said thakittens just ability basis (as in brand and Lux are 3 times lower because their passive effects do not count in on the burst) and that no CDR is included in the calculation aka luxes main stat for spam lazors and the unreliable part (as in all skillshots) directly means she deals no damage since she can miss it all vs a high mobility team.
2. Ap tyrn was a problem because semi burst comps weren’t viable at the time, thus wrecking everything, also kite power still owns tyn as a whole (take graggy/cho/elise/graves/taric/ryze vs AP tryn and you will dominate because of hard counter, but you will have a really hard time later on since your team will be a wild mix), its the same as saying AD nidalee was a problem (and then boom, ranged adc tops owning nidlz and the true bruisers for 3 months).
All of which proves my point about meta shifts.
I main Ele and Necro, though I have an alt of each profession at level 80. How to Condi Reaper on a budget
Everything I say is only in reference to PvE and WvW.
@Bas.7406
can you please link / whisper me a link to a PvE(dungeons/random walking in Orr) / WvW build focused on dagger/axe? I`m currently working(mostly reading forums and watching youtube theory-crafting and experiments) on building my non-condition necro(I need to find a play style/setup that suits me).
Thank you.
Why do you all compare the necromancer to other classes, saying its bad but stick to it. Just play another character. One of those warriors if you like them so much.
I will stick to the necromancer because they’re real fun. Still they could have more funny and nice looking things like lich stomp or maybe in the future burry them(started something on the “greataxe for necro” post and can’t get over it xD) but i enjoy playing a necromancer.. and thats what count for me because effectiveness is something i expect from my teammates on work.. not from my team in a computer game or at least not at the same importance (sure i want them to play as good as they can to achive lot of wins and so on.. but a funny loss where my team of 5 necromancers stomped everyone in lichform is way more entertaining than a win that was no fun because i have to fit a role in my team i don’t like, like pd guard)
and hell yeah Guild Wars 2 is to entertain people.
Last point is that i played gw1 pvp a lot and there you didn’t have those escape skills either. Just see the necromancer in spvp like the backline in gw1 gvg and learn to position him right and you will see that a necromancer is still a beast in groupfights. Whoever wants to solo roam and play 1vsX should play another class…
