Guild Wars 2

Well of blood = should heal through deathshroud, should be a water field (makes no sense I know) and should cleanse a condition each pulse.

Consume conditions = Tough one due to master of corruption. But I would like to see this changed so that its base cd in 25 second again. Also the cast time needs to be 3/4 seconds.

The minion thing = Ok fine. It does its job. I would make him look cooler though.

The shout = I think the healing is slightly too low. I would like to see it give 10% life force not 5%

Lordrosicky.5813:

The minion thing = Ok fine. It does its job. I would make him look cooler though.

Doesn’t heal through Shroud.

Also, you forgot Vamp Signet, and its leeching charges don’t heal through Shroud either.

flow.6043:

Lordrosicky.5813:

The minion thing = Ok fine. It does its job. I would make him look cooler though.

Doesn’t heal through Shroud.

Also, you forgot Vamp Signet, and its leeching charges don’t heal through Shroud either.

There you go. Two more changes needed

flow.6043:

Also, you forgot Vamp Signet, and its leeching charges don’t heal through Shroud either.

Actually the healing charges work though shroud when it comes from the healing skill but not when they came from the bloodmagic trait blood bond. Atleast that was the case when i tested it some long time ago. I even remember making a bug topic about this in the bug section (which obviously it has to be when one works while the other doesnt).

Infact it is even stated in a offical patch note (see https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Vampirism) that the healing charges work though shroud.

To me, the vamp signet just doesnt drain enough, the well really needs a buff, minion I dont use at all, shout is just too meh and needs to do more on both ends.

Well of blood = should heal through deathshroud, should be a water field (makes no sense I know) and should cleanse a condition each pulse.

Wont get condi removal since it would somewhat over lap with well of power. Also unlikely to become a water field. More likely either its duration is returned or the healing contribution of the pulses increase. A radius increase would be useful since the skill limits you but its unlikely.

Consume conditions = Tough one due to master of corruption. But I would like to see this changed so that its base cd in 25 second again. Also the cast time needs to be 3/4 seconds.

Skill is strong. Wont receive a cooldown reduction because of the 33% trait. Cast time wont be reduced that much either, again, due to the skills strength. Likely changes is it has its cast time reduced to 1s.

The shout = I think the healing is slightly too low. I would like to see it give 10% life force not 5%

The shout heals in the same range as every other heal in its cooldown bracket. Lifeforce gained wont be increased without lowering amount on it( to 2% to keep net the same). Unlikely to happen as they want it to feel rewarding when used on more enemies instead of 50% of its effect as a base. Plus since it is an attack it can interact with traits/sigils ( also its skill category lets it benefit from runes ), namely BB and CV. Skill already provides 5~33% LF. tl;dr its fine.

Likely changes to the signet ( one or more of the following)

• Passive effect is considered life steal
• Cooldown is per attacker
• Passive cooldown reduced to 0.5~0.75s / Active cooldown and number of charges reduced
• Passive healing increased to a minimum of matching healing signet
• Active cooldown interval reduced to 0.5~0.75s

I’d like to see Parasitic Contagion moved to a spot where you can actually consider taking it. Or just merged into Vampric Presence—although that’d prolly end up being OP and getting things over-nerfed and leaving us in a worse state.

I love YSIM – short cast, low cooldown, solid heal, great LF gen, does AoE damage at range. CC is weak imho just because it keeps you in combat with the vuln. It really doesn’t need it anymore considering how accessible conditions are now.

Vampirism should be self-only and lose the ICD on stack consumption and just have fewer stacks. This keeps the damage reasonable but makes it a potent offensive/sustained raw heal, with amazing synergy with axe, GS, and dagger with their multi-hit skills.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Well of blood = should heal through deathshroud, should be a water field (makes no sense I know) and should cleanse a condition each pulse.

Nah it makes sense. Blood is mostly water.

narcx.3570:

I’d like to see Parasitic Contagion moved to a spot where you can actually consider taking it. Or just merged into Vampric Presence—although that’d prolly end up being OP and getting things over-nerfed and leaving us in a worse state.

Parasitic Contagion is fine where it is, it just needs to have an actually decent amount of healing, and if possible some form of Healing Power scaling.

What would be really nice is if all our own healing effects healed through shroud. But it should be strictly Necro heals, so no runes or sigils. This could help make Well of Blood better since you could use it and then go into shroud and still be healed. And, if they finally make it a dark field like the other wells (light field makes sense for Mesmer, but not for Necro because cleansing bolts over leeching bolts does not fit the Necro theme), you could whirl in it to for a bit more healing. I don’t see this being OP honestly. Perhaps if the healing is too strong, it could be reduced by 33% as if you are always poisoned. Think about it. You lose health every second and healing effects are reduced by 33%. It’s exactly like being poisoned. Simple adjustments can be made and it would be a nice buff to our survivability.

All other healing sources would not work through shroud. Then an Ele could keep you alive eternally.

Sarrs.4831:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Well of blood = should heal through deathshroud, should be a water field (makes no sense I know) and should cleanse a condition each pulse.

Nah it makes sense. Blood is mostly water.

narcx.3570:

I’d like to see Parasitic Contagion moved to a spot where you can actually consider taking it. Or just merged into Vampric Presence—although that’d prolly end up being OP and getting things over-nerfed and leaving us in a worse state.

Parasitic Contagion is fine where it is, it just needs to have an actually decent amount of healing, and if possible some form of Healing Power scaling.

It should heal through shroud. That would make it viable and would not be OP

Lordrosicky.5813:

It should heal through shroud. That would make it viable and would not be OP

It doesn’t atm? Thought it did
Absolutely needs to yeah

Reduced cast time of Consume conditions is not unreasonable. Making it less telegraphed neither.

Sarrs.4831:

Lordrosicky.5813:

It should heal through shroud. That would make it viable and would not be OP

It doesn’t atm? Thought it did
Absolutely needs to yeah

No it doesnt.

Anet also needs to do something about the regeneration boon. We can keep it up permantly easily (depending on the build ofc) but yet it doesnt do anything while in shroud. If the healing in shroud is to strong (which i seriously doubt) it should do something else while in shroud (like 1% lf per sec).

Muchacho.2390:

Sarrs.4831:

Lordrosicky.5813:

It should heal through shroud. That would make it viable and would not be OP

It doesn’t atm? Thought it did
Absolutely needs to yeah

No it doesnt.

Anet also needs to do something about the regeneration boon. We can keep it up permantly easily (depending on the build ofc) but yet it doesnt do anything while in shroud. If the healing in shroud is to strong (which i seriously doubt) it should do something else while in shroud (like 1% lf per sec).

Yeh thats what regen should do. If in shroud it should give regen to your life force. In addition, traits like unholy santuary need more healing. It should have its healing increased by around 100% at least.

I just want Well of Blood to be usable, personally. It’s just one of those skills I don’t even have a second thought about taking. It’s just a “nope” every time, no matter the situation.

I think good changes for Well Of Blood would be:

• Reduce cooldown from 35s to 25s.
• Change field from Light to Ice.
• Slightly increase healing per second.
• Change functionality: Heals Shroud equivalent to health if in Shroud while standing in the Well.

I do think a Water field would be nice, but considering our only leap and whirl finishers are in Shroud, I don’t feel we would get much benefit from it. An Ice field however could synergize nicely with things like Cold Shoulder and Bitter Chill, as well as further reducing damage while in Shroud if leaping through it.

The cooldown can’t be too low and the duration can’t be too long if it’s changed to heal Shroud while in Shroud or it would make us monsters (not that I’d disagree with that, but for the sake of balance). But I think having something that could extend our lives weather it’s our health or our pseudo-health would be a good enough change to warrant using this skill from time to time.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Yeh thats what regen should do. If in shroud it should give regen to your life force. In addition, traits like unholy santuary need more healing. It should have its healing increased by around 100% at least.

I don’t think Regen should increase your LF. Regen should just heal through shroud.

Maybe Blood Magic should Unholy Martyr replaced with “Regeneration on you grants 1% life force when it ticks” or something.

Unholy Sanctuary should not be buffed. It is not a bad trait and if the rest of the tree were viable it would be worth thinking about simply for the sake of auto-shrouding.

While I’m all for Well of Blood being a water field, I want to point out that if you make self created combo finishers heal the necro (eg whirling or leaping in a water field), this doesn’t help core necro like at all and this should be taken into account.

To keep it with its blood theme, why not make it bleed enemies and grant regen per enemy (aka super mark of blood). Grants lifeforce for allies bleeding in the area (you siphon their blood and generate lifeforce from it?)

Or maybe signet of vampirism (cause it’s VAMPIRISM) could do something based on bleed instead. “Apply 3 bleeds to your target, then detonate all bleed stacks on the target, siphoning health to the bleed source.” The 3 bleeds is just to have a minimum siphon amount, but allies can still benefit since their bleeds will trigger siphons as well.

Just some ideas.

I remember necro in gw1 , man " playing a toucher" was nice and u could see damage and nice healing.
The healing and siphon in gw2 from necro is too low, its just doesnt matter almost, because of the insane damage going around.
So yes i agree , necros should get better healing and better sustain, so they dont need a babysiter 24/7.

Prince Vingador.8067:

I remember necro in gw1 , man " playing a toucher" was nice and u could see damage and nice healing.
The healing and siphon in gw2 from necro is too low, its just doesnt matter almost, because of the insane damage going around.
So yes i agree , necros should get better healing and better sustain, so they dont need a babysiter 24/7.

All I remember was touch Ranger, using vamp touch/bite and offering of blood + their block skills.

But in regard to Well of Blood, I’d say change its field type, give it a minor damage co-efficiant (so it then triggers vampiric and vampiric aura) and then give it a pulsing boon to those inside, regen maybe?

Sarrs.4831:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Yeh thats what regen should do. If in shroud it should give regen to your life force. In addition, traits like unholy santuary need more healing. It should have its healing increased by around 100% at least.

I don’t think Regen should increase your LF. Regen should just heal through shroud.

Maybe Blood Magic should Unholy Martyr replaced with “Regeneration on you grants 1% life force when it ticks” or something.

Unholy Sanctuary should not be buffed. It is not a bad trait and if the rest of the tree were viable it would be worth thinking about simply for the sake of auto-shrouding.

No he is right. The healing from US needs to be buffed though doubling the output is probably too much. I think the base healing should be around 200. And i think you overestemate the usefulness of auto-shrouding. Not that is bad but with proper shroud use it is only in a few cases good.

Life siphon should be better too I agree with people. But I think consume needs a lower cast time and honestly the shout heal needs more healing or something.

Compare the shout heal to thieves new heal.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQJAWRnMbCt0g10AebC0biFvBb6iFASAxJwHYGkqDECmAA-TBBXgAAK/6V/JUXwjSQA-e

I’ve been rolling that, I don’t even use my healing skill, Nightfall + reaper 4 or well+ reaper 4, or just wells in general tend to heal me entirely. If Rise catches 5 targets then it recharges about 1 second after the minions finally kick it, so I have the leech from them. As far as using the healing skill goes, I can get it down to 15s if I hit five targets. But again, I rarely need to use it, I just rotate my leeching around.

I even use it for a condition heavy build, though it has a bit of a lesser degree of usefulness, as it has poor condition sync.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Life siphon should be better too I agree with people. But I think consume needs a lower cast time and honestly the shout heal needs more healing or something.

Compare the shout heal to thieves new heal.

Disclaimer: Everything below is without healing power, min HP vaule used is 19,212 and max is 24,812

They wont reduce CC below 1s because it is a very strong heal.
There are 14 unique conditions in the game and 12 can be made use of with this heal ( Taunt and fear are control effects ).
This gives CC a min of 5240 but a max of 13928. Working out at around 21.8%~72.5% HP. Even on average of 4~6 conditions ( very easy to get on you ) you are looking at 8136~9584 on a 20~30s cooldown, 32.8%~49.8% HP. Not to mention the skill removes ALL current condition damage pressure from you. Lastly the skill removes conditions before it heals therefore it will never be subject to -33% healing from poison like some other heals.

Also the shout heal, again, is fine. It doesnt need to heal more since it heals pretty much the same as everything else in its bracket of 20s cooldowns, if not more.

• Mending heals for 6520 and cleans 3 conditions
• Healing turret combo heals for 6342 and cleans 2 conditions + 650 from 5s of regen.
• Bandage Self heals for 4920
• Withdraw heals for 4766, removed movement impairing conditions and is a 3/4s evade
• Ether Renewal heals for a total of 5k and cleans 8 conditions over its long channel
• Ether Feast Heals for a maximum of 7480
• The thing you want it compared to Channeled Vigor heals for 5520 to 7320 depending on endurance.
• Etc etc

But when you look at YSIM it heals for kitten AND a max of 22% LF. This is a minimum of 662 ( no vit and no targets ) to a maximum of 4331 ( SR and at least 560 vit if we are talking usable pvp amulets ).
Its base healing and damage can be increased by traits and since its an attack it benefits from sigils ( air for damage, blood for more healing, strength etc etc ).
For the same reason its life fore “heal” can be increased by CV and BB. A max of 12%+2.2% from siphoned power ( 265 min to a max of 2795).

So to compare to theives top end if 5520~7320 , “some endurance” ,10 endurance (trait) on a 20~18s cooldown
or
4555+0~625(shout trait) , 5%~36.2%(662~7131)LF, 0~7 stacks of might on a 20~13s cooldown

TL;DR
CC wont go below 1s cast time because its very strong. Shout heal is fine.

Sigmoid.7082:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Life siphon should be better too I agree with people. But I think consume needs a lower cast time and honestly the shout heal needs more healing or something.

Compare the shout heal to thieves new heal.

Disclaimer: Everything below is without healing power, min HP vaule used is 19,212 and max is 24,812

They wont reduce CC below 1s because it is a very strong heal.
There are 14 unique conditions in the game and 12 can be made use of with this heal ( Taunt and fear are control effects ).
This gives CC a min of 5240 but a max of 13928. Working out at around 21.8%~72.5% HP. Even on average of 4~6 conditions ( very easy to get on you ) you are looking at 8136~9584 on a 20~30s cooldown, 32.8%~49.8% HP. Not to mention the skill removes ALL current condition damage pressure from you. Lastly the skill removes conditions before it heals therefore it will never be subject to -33% healing from poison like some other heals.

Also the shout heal, again, is fine. It doesnt need to heal more since it heals pretty much the same as everything else in its bracket of 20s cooldowns, if not more.

• Mending heals for 6520 and cleans 3 conditions
• Healing turret combo heals for 6342 and cleans 2 conditions + 650 from 5s of regen.
• Bandage Self heals for 4920
• Withdraw heals for 4766, removed movement impairing conditions and is a 3/4s evade
• Ether Renewal heals for a total of 5k and cleans 8 conditions over its long channel
• Ether Feast Heals for a maximum of 7480
• The thing you want it compared to Channeled Vigor heals for 5520 to 7320 depending on endurance.
• Etc etc

But when you look at YSIM it heals for kitten AND a max of 22% LF. This is a minimum of 662 ( no vit and no targets ) to a maximum of 4331 ( SR and at least 560 vit if we are talking usable pvp amulets ).
Its base healing and damage can be increased by traits and since its an attack it benefits from sigils ( air for damage, blood for more healing, strength etc etc ).
For the same reason its life fore “heal” can be increased by CV and BB. A max of 12%+2.2% from siphoned power ( 265 min to a max of 2795).

So to compare to theives top end if 5520~7320 , “some endurance” ,10 endurance (trait) on a 20~18s cooldown
or
4555+0~625(shout trait) , 5%~36.2%(662~7131)LF, 0~7 stacks of might on a 20~13s cooldown

TL;DR
CC wont go below 1s cast time because its very strong. Shout heal is fine.

Doesnt matter how strong it is, if u dont get to use it.
Same way focus doesnt see any gameplay
Same way gs doesnt see any gameplay either
Everything is very spammy,so having so long cast times is a big problem, specially vs mesmer and thievs

Sigmoid.7082:

Also the shout heal, again, is fine. It doesnt need to heal more since it heals pretty much the same as everything else in its bracket of 20s cooldowns, if not more.

That’s a pointless comparison.
Other classes have additional defensive mechanisms, necros only have their hp, so it only makes sense that our healing values should be a lot higher.

Prince Vingador.8067:

Doesnt matter how strong it is, if u dont get to use it.
Same way focus doesnt see any gameplay
Same way gs doesnt see any gameplay either
Everything is very spammy,so having so long cast times is a big problem, specially vs mesmer and thievs

The point that is it wont have its cast-time reduced to below 1s because of how strong it is…and you do get to use it. Look at pretty much all the meta builds gone by a large % of them all use CC because its that strong. Its currently 3/5 for builds for pvp and 5/6 for WvW that use CC as the heal.

The only way CC will every has a cast time below 1s is if they lowered the number of conditions removed and reduced how much it heals.

Focus and GS also do see play in certain buids. I personally play with focus myself, i even use the trait as spinal shivers and CoD benefit from it, and i know others have had success using GS in certain builds up in high divisions ( high plat )

flow.6043:

Sigmoid.7082:

Also the shout heal, again, is fine. It doesnt need to heal more since it heals pretty much the same as everything else in its bracket of 20s cooldowns, if not more.

That’s a pointless comparison.
Other classes have additional defensive mechanisms, necros only have their hp, so it only makes sense that our healing values should be a lot higher.

Not really since it gives LF and potentially a lot of it. You cant just count the raw heal and say “others are higher” or what you have said without actually considering the LF , our main defensive mechanic , gained. When thats considered it “heals” pretty much for more than everything in its bracket.

I ment u dont get to use it cause it gets interrompted

Sigmoid.7082:

flow.6043:

Sigmoid.7082:

Also the shout heal, again, is fine. It doesnt need to heal more since it heals pretty much the same as everything else in its bracket of 20s cooldowns, if not more.

That’s a pointless comparison.
Other classes have additional defensive mechanisms, necros only have their hp, so it only makes sense that our healing values should be a lot higher.

Not really since it gives LF and potentially a lot of it. You cant just count the raw heal and say “others are higher” or what you have said without actually considering the LF , our main defensive mechanic , gained. When thats considered it “heals” pretty much for more than everything in its bracket.

Again with the “bracket”… like I said, stop comparing to other heals.
And I really shouldn’t have to tell a fellow necro, but: life force is generated a lot more easily than actual hp. So whatever amout you get with the shout is meaningless if the base heal is so poor.
Plus, you pretend like the scaling of it makes it any better, but similar to all other skills we have, it doesn’t scale well enough when it really matters. Meaning, when you’re getting focused in team fights a few extra % of life force won’t save you. Actually, in that case you’re almost always better off with a full cleanse.

Muchacho.2390:

No he is right. The healing from US needs to be buffed though doubling the output is probably too much. I think the base healing should be around 200. And i think you overestemate the usefulness of auto-shrouding. Not that is bad but with proper shroud use it is only in a few cases good.

I really don’t agree on overestimating the usefulness of auto-shrouding. It does a lot of work especially with tools like BB/Spiteful Spirit which gives you at most an instant 850 hp with no healing power as soon as it fires. You can do weird stuff like back-to-back deathshrouding, you can bait bursts by manual DS dropping and allowing the burst in groupfights, it will protect you from Moa, you can do a lot of work with it.

Just with BB/US healing, granting you many heals per second while you’re spamming AA with Spite and Strength sigil, I have a hard time really saying that it should be buffed.

flow.6043:

Again with the “bracket”… like I said, stop comparing to other heals.

Compare the shout heal to thieves new heal.

I dont usually compare between classes since each functions differently but………this is the post i originally quoted. Hence the comparison. Its all in context. That and as a general rule all classes have at least 1 heal that is low cool down and low health gained. We so happen to have two.

Besides imho if it healed more then it would either have to not strike targets or generate no or lower LF. But the point of the heal IS that it generates LF.

And I really shouldn’t have to tell a fellow necro, but: life force is generated a lot more easily than actual hp. So whatever amount you get with the shout is meaningless if the base heal is so poor.

I know this…I just dont think this is true that the LF gained is meaningless. Guess we view the skill and LF differently.

Plus, you pretend like the scaling of it makes it any better, but similar to all other skills we have, it doesn’t scale well enough when it really matters. Meaning, when you’re getting focused in team fights a few extra % of life force won’t save you.

Again i disagree for a bunch of reasons but I’ll agree to disagree.

Sarrs.4831:

Muchacho.2390:

No he is right. The healing from US needs to be buffed though doubling the output is probably too much. I think the base healing should be around 200. And i think you overestemate the usefulness of auto-shrouding. Not that is bad but with proper shroud use it is only in a few cases good.

I really don’t agree on overestimating the usefulness of auto-shrouding. It does a lot of work especially with tools like BB/Spiteful Spirit which gives you at most an instant 850 hp with no healing power as soon as it fires. You can do weird stuff like back-to-back deathshrouding, you can bait bursts by manual DS dropping and allowing the burst in groupfights, it will protect you from Moa, you can do a lot of work with it.

Just with BB/US healing, granting you many heals per second while you’re spamming AA with Spite and Strength sigil, I have a hard time really saying that it should be buffed.

I know that but i am not convinced. Not that it even matter as long as deathmagic is in a bad state.

Muchacho.2390:

I know that but i am not convinced. Not that it even matter as long as deathmagic is in a bad state.

#replacesoulcomprehension2017

Sarrs.4831:

Muchacho.2390:

I know that but i am not convinced. Not that it even matter as long as deathmagic is in a bad state.

#replacesoulcomprehension2017

That i fully agree with.

Sigmoid.7082:

Prince Vingador.8067:

Doesnt matter how strong it is, if u dont get to use it.
Same way focus doesnt see any gameplay
Same way gs doesnt see any gameplay either
Everything is very spammy,so having so long cast times is a big problem, specially vs mesmer and thievs

The point that is it wont have its cast-time reduced to below 1s because of how strong it is…and you do get to use it. Look at pretty much all the meta builds gone by a large % of them all use CC because its that strong. Its currently 3/5 for builds for pvp and 5/6 for WvW that use CC as the heal.

The only way CC will every has a cast time below 1s is if they lowered the number of conditions removed and reduced how much it heals.

Focus and GS also do see play in certain buids. I personally play with focus myself, i even use the trait as spinal shivers and CoD benefit from it, and i know others have had success using GS in certain builds up in high divisions ( high plat )

flow.6043:

Sigmoid.7082:

Also the shout heal, again, is fine. It doesnt need to heal more since it heals pretty much the same as everything else in its bracket of 20s cooldowns, if not more.

That’s a pointless comparison.
Other classes have additional defensive mechanisms, necros only have their hp, so it only makes sense that our healing values should be a lot higher.

Not really since it gives LF and potentially a lot of it. You cant just count the raw heal and say “others are higher” or what you have said without actually considering the LF , our main defensive mechanic , gained. When thats considered it “heals” pretty much for more than everything in its bracket.

You know how you beat necros? Sustain the fight because their sustain is so bad. As in, necro healing is so bad.

CC is a bad heal. It gives vuln kitten . It used to be ok before the huge nerf of 5s more cd and 5 stacks of vuln.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Sigmoid.7082:

Prince Vingador.8067:

Doesnt matter how strong it is, if u dont get to use it.
Same way focus doesnt see any gameplay
Same way gs doesnt see any gameplay either
Everything is very spammy,so having so long cast times is a big problem, specially vs mesmer and thievs

The point that is it wont have its cast-time reduced to below 1s because of how strong it is…and you do get to use it. Look at pretty much all the meta builds gone by a large % of them all use CC because its that strong. Its currently 3/5 for builds for pvp and 5/6 for WvW that use CC as the heal.

The only way CC will every has a cast time below 1s is if they lowered the number of conditions removed and reduced how much it heals.

Focus and GS also do see play in certain buids. I personally play with focus myself, i even use the trait as spinal shivers and CoD benefit from it, and i know others have had success using GS in certain builds up in high divisions ( high plat )

flow.6043:

Sigmoid.7082:

Also the shout heal, again, is fine. It doesnt need to heal more since it heals pretty much the same as everything else in its bracket of 20s cooldowns, if not more.

That’s a pointless comparison.
Other classes have additional defensive mechanisms, necros only have their hp, so it only makes sense that our healing values should be a lot higher.

Not really since it gives LF and potentially a lot of it. You cant just count the raw heal and say “others are higher” or what you have said without actually considering the LF , our main defensive mechanic , gained. When thats considered it “heals” pretty much for more than everything in its bracket.

You know how you beat necros? Sustain the fight because their sustain is so bad. As in, necro healing is so bad.

CC is a bad heal. It gives vuln kitten . It used to be ok before the huge nerf of 5s more cd and 5 stacks of vuln.

I never though a Necro’s lack of sustain in PvP was because of their primary heal skill.

I thought it was because they have little-to-no way of blocking/evading/reflecting/protecting/stabing/etc’ing through their opponent’s biggest shots and CCs. You have two dodges, your Shroud HP, RS 3 for stab, Rise for as long as the minions last, maaaybe a Flesh Wurm summoned in a corner somewhere as an escape and RS 2’s missile blocker if you time it perfectly, and that’s pretty much it. Compared to a class that has good pvp sustain, like a warrior or guardian, who often have, among other things, multiple blocks, secondary heals, abilities that let them completely ignore damage and/or conditions for several seconds, stability up the wazzoo, and often a source of protection or two with much better uptime than Spectral armor.

The heals look bad, because the heals are all Necros have to keep them going, and they alone are almost never enough when facing another player. Maybe someday Anet will realize this and add some more damage negators (rather than mitigators) in the Necromancer’s kitten nal (like when they made Corrosive Poison Cloud block missiles) You know with HoT*, Necromancer is the only class without an honest-to-god block? Not even a one-and-done like Mesmer scepter and OH sword. Shroud is suppose to be the Necro’s way to sustain between heals, and every time I hear a dev say that I almost question if they ever tried playing PvP as a Necro.

Still, I would love to see a buff to Well of Blood, and I wouldn’t argue against making CC easier to use (blind as the base condi instead of vuln?) and Vamp Signet’s passive more useful. I live by Blood Fiend (literally in some cases) in PvE ever since they finally made them ignored by nearly all mobs and invul to most of their AoEs however.

*technically, this has been true since day one, since Thief’s uw spear has a block, but Daredevil was when they got one they could use on land.

This one is probably rather personal but I wish they could do something a little more for the Blood Fiend. I like that using thing but I wish I could use it outside of minionmancer builds more often though. It can be killed way too easily in PvP. I was kinda thinking if The Blood Fiend dies it drops blobs of blood onto the ground or something that can be picked up by allies and heals them for a small amount. At least that way you don’t get outright rewarded health for the Blood Fiend dying, but it’ll leave something behind that could help out so it wont be a total waste.

Foefaller.1082:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Sigmoid.7082:

Prince Vingador.8067:

Doesnt matter how strong it is, if u dont get to use it.
Same way focus doesnt see any gameplay
Same way gs doesnt see any gameplay either
Everything is very spammy,so having so long cast times is a big problem, specially vs mesmer and thievs

The point that is it wont have its cast-time reduced to below 1s because of how strong it is…and you do get to use it. Look at pretty much all the meta builds gone by a large % of them all use CC because its that strong. Its currently 3/5 for builds for pvp and 5/6 for WvW that use CC as the heal.

The only way CC will every has a cast time below 1s is if they lowered the number of conditions removed and reduced how much it heals.

Focus and GS also do see play in certain buids. I personally play with focus myself, i even use the trait as spinal shivers and CoD benefit from it, and i know others have had success using GS in certain builds up in high divisions ( high plat )

flow.6043:

Sigmoid.7082:

Also the shout heal, again, is fine. It doesnt need to heal more since it heals pretty much the same as everything else in its bracket of 20s cooldowns, if not more.

That’s a pointless comparison.
Other classes have additional defensive mechanisms, necros only have their hp, so it only makes sense that our healing values should be a lot higher.

Not really since it gives LF and potentially a lot of it. You cant just count the raw heal and say “others are higher” or what you have said without actually considering the LF , our main defensive mechanic , gained. When thats considered it “heals” pretty much for more than everything in its bracket.

You know how you beat necros? Sustain the fight because their sustain is so bad. As in, necro healing is so bad.

CC is a bad heal. It gives vuln kitten . It used to be ok before the huge nerf of 5s more cd and 5 stacks of vuln.

I never though a Necro’s lack of sustain in PvP was because of their primary heal skill.

I thought it was because they have little-to-no way of blocking/evading/reflecting/protecting/stabing/etc’ing through their opponent’s biggest shots and CCs. You have two dodges, your Shroud HP, RS 3 for stab, Rise for as long as the minions last, maaaybe a Flesh Wurm summoned in a corner somewhere as an escape and RS 2’s missile blocker if you time it perfectly, and that’s pretty much it. Compared to a class that has good pvp sustain, like a warrior or guardian, who often have, among other things, multiple blocks, secondary heals, abilities that let them completely ignore damage and/or conditions for several seconds, stability up the wazzoo, and often a source of protection or two with much better uptime than Spectral armor.

The heals look bad, because the heals are all Necros have to keep them going, and they alone are almost never enough when facing another player. Maybe someday Anet will realize this and add some more damage negators (rather than mitigators) in the Necromancer’s kitten nal (like when they made Corrosive Poison Cloud block missiles) You know with HoT*, Necromancer is the only class without an honest-to-god block? Not even a one-and-done like Mesmer scepter and OH sword. Shroud is suppose to be the Necro’s way to sustain between heals, and every time I hear a dev say that I almost question if they ever tried playing PvP as a Necro.

Still, I would love to see a buff to Well of Blood, and I wouldn’t argue against making CC easier to use (blind as the base condi instead of vuln?) and Vamp Signet’s passive more useful. I live by Blood Fiend (literally in some cases) in PvE ever since they finally made them ignored by nearly all mobs and invul to most of their AoEs however.

*technically, this has been true since day one, since Thief’s uw spear has a block, but Daredevil was when they got one they could use on land.

I don’t understand why CC needs a condition applied to the user – it’s so kittening stupid… such a bad change. Bad game design. It was bad when it was changed and it’s still bad now.

They should have left it as an unaligned heal, like Guardian’s shelter.

i would love necro to be a better healer i would do it more along the lines of 10% of condition damage dealt heals allies near the bleed target so that it is more of a front line healer while being thematically fitting for necro healing allies with the blood of their enemies. this would also help heals synergize better would also give necro an excuse to use shaman armor. you could balance it with small caps like bleeds only heal one ally and poisons only heal 3

changes in the first post + removal of ICD and small nerf to leech dmg on signet of vampirism would be great. cd reduction on CC could be OP though, and not having it apply condis on you would mean it isnt really a corruption type skill anymore.

Rangerdeity.5847:

i would love necro to be a better healer i would do it more along the lines of 10% of condition damage dealt heals allies near the bleed target so that it is more of a front line healer while being thematically fitting for necro healing allies with the blood of their enemies. this would also help heals synergize better would also give necro an excuse to use shaman armor. you could balance it with small caps like bleeds only heal one ally and poisons only heal 3

So, Parasitic Contagion, but less selfish?

Foefaller.1082:

Rangerdeity.5847:

i would love necro to be a better healer i would do it more along the lines of 10% of condition damage dealt heals allies near the bleed target so that it is more of a front line healer while being thematically fitting for necro healing allies with the blood of their enemies. this would also help heals synergize better would also give necro an excuse to use shaman armor. you could balance it with small caps like bleeds only heal one ally and poisons only heal 3

So, Parasitic Contagion, but less selfish?

bingo baby. sounds sexy doesnt it large quantities of micro heals that are upped based on number of enemies you can hit with your aoes so its balanced for pvp while still being effective for pvp.

Too bad CC doesn’t apply the conditions before it removes them. To me the ideal way to go for it is for it to apply its’ condis to you before it removes them and the trait would allow CC to put resistance for the cast time and pull all allied conditions onto yourself before it removes all the condis. The pulling of all those condis would give the heal more kick and the resistance boon would allow you to pull taunt and fear without automatically ccing yourself. I’d keep the casting time and cd the same. The condis would be pulled on you at the beginning of the cast making CC high risk and high reward.

CC was not even OP at 25 seconds with no vuln before. Now everything in the game has got much much better. So CC now sucks.