Guild Wars 2

Popular… yes, definitely.

Blaine, a nice read indeed.
Two flaws though:
1. Necrotic Grasp can hit up to 5 targets.
2. 30/30/10 means you need to add an extra 5% to carrion’s damage mitigation, 7,5% if you use undead runes.
And the 33% for rabid are only possible in PvE/WvW, in fact you’ll get 32% with full rabid gear (ascended trinkets) undead runes and 10 in Death Magic.
The 644 toughness from a PvP amulet and 10 in DM will give you 29%, if you add undead runes: 30%.
So the difference is really 23-24% in a 30/30/10 build rather than 33%.

On a side note, the actual selling point for carrion is power>precision for direct damage. If you go 30 in Spite for Dhuumfire then imo rabid’s reliable procs surpass the damage output of pure carrion (pre-nerf for sPvP that is..).

It is completely valid to say Rabid is popular. There is a lot of talk about Carrion being better, and I know that a lot of higher tier PvPers used Carrion, it isn’t remotely inaccurate to say that Rabid is still popular. Especially if you look at recent tournaments with people who just started playing Necro, a lot of them are using Rabid.

Bhawb.7408:

It is completely valid to say Rabid is popular. There is a lot of talk about Carrion being better, and I know that a lot of higher tier PvPers used Carrion, it isn’t remotely inaccurate to say that Rabid is still popular. Especially if you look at recent tournaments with people who just started playing Necro, a lot of them are using Rabid.

Yeah, it was unfortunate that a good discussion of Carrion vs. Rabid meant that I cannot say:

“Rabid is popular among PvP Necros.”

or

“Many PvP Necros use Rabid.”

or, similarly, (http://www.gingersoftware.com/grammarbook/adjectives/some-vs-many/)

“A large indefinite number of PvP Necros use Rabid.”

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Don’t be ridiculous. In that same thread, you’ll find others suggesting Carrion over Rabid, or other build other than Rabid.

Haley.2390:

How does their suggesting Carrion over Rabid imply Rabid is not popular? I prefer Carrion over Rabid, too, but I recognize that the general atmosphere of the Necro forum (which you referred me to) is that Rabid is popular.

No you’re wrong. It implies that Rabid Condition does not have the “large” number you’ve been insisting in comparison to the number of other non-Rabid-Condition builds.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/So-how-can-I-beat-CND-with-a-necro/page/2#post2529963

flow.6043:

Popular… yes, definitely.

Blaine, a nice read indeed.
Two flaws though:
1. Necrotic Grasp can hit up to 5 targets.

The wiki says 3, so I went with that. It may well by 5, though, in which case the wiki entry could use editing.

flow.6043:

2. 30/30/10 means you need to add an extra 5% to carrion’s damage mitigation, 7,5% if you use undead runes.

You mean because of the 10 points in Death? I took that into account. You’re right that Runes can affect this as well; I wanted to keep the analysis as simple as possible as I was already juggling a lot of numbers. My intent wasn’t to spell out exactly which builds someone might use but to give a few cardinal points of reference. I’m sure we could get into better granularity, but my ambitiousness ran out.

I usually use rabid, but have tried Shaman’s (Toughness primary, Healing and condi) with Runes of the undead (5% of toughness into condi) which boosts my condi to 600+ (30/30/0/0/10 build). The extra survivability is nice though the drop in DPS is noticeable vs rabid.

Hey, Bhawb. When you say that Rabid is “very common” for PvP Necros, do you mean “most” or “majority” of PvP Necros go Rabid?

My take from your use of “very common” is that you did not necessarily mean “most” or the “majority” of PvP Necros choose Rabid.

But this Thief in the Thief forum believes you do.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Even Bhawb.7408 made this statement;

Rabid has always been, and probably always will be a very common gear stat for Necromancers.

As oppose to “uncommon” or “rare”, what does “very common” mean if not “most?”

So please do tell, what do you mean again?

Haley.2390:

Hey, Bhawb. When you say that Rabid is “very common” for PvP Necros, do you mean “most” or “majority” of PvP Necros go Rabid?

My take from your use of “very common” is that you did not necessarily mean “most” or the “majority” of PvP Necros choose Rabid.

But this Thief in the Thief forum believes you do.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Even Bhawb.7408 made this statement;

Rabid has always been, and probably always will be a very common gear stat for Necromancers.

As oppose to “uncommon” or “rare”, what does “very common” mean if not “most?”

So please do tell, what do you mean again?

There is no point to ask people here in the Necromancer forum.
You can get your answer by yourself watching the PAX qualifiers and count how many Necromancers were running an amulet different from Rabid.
I counted none, but I may have missed one.

sorrow.2364:

Haley.2390:

Hey, Bhawb. When you say that Rabid is “very common” for PvP Necros, do you mean “most” or “majority” of PvP Necros go Rabid?

My take from your use of “very common” is that you did not necessarily mean “most” or the “majority” of PvP Necros choose Rabid.

But this Thief in the Thief forum believes you do.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Even Bhawb.7408 made this statement;

Rabid has always been, and probably always will be a very common gear stat for Necromancers.

As oppose to “uncommon” or “rare”, what does “very common” mean if not “most?”

So please do tell, what do you mean again?

There is no point to ask people here in the Necromancer forum.
You can get your answer by yourself watching the PAX qualifiers and count how many Necromancers were running an amulet different from Rabid.
I counted none, but I may have missed one.

I’m actually interested in all forms of PvP (WvW/sPvP/tPvP) among PvP Necros in general (not just the top tier tPvP Necros.)

Bhawb used “very common” here and this Thief claims that “very common” necessarily means “most”

Bhawb.7408:

Sorry if this discussion has been misleading. Rabid has always been, and probably always will be a very common gear stat for Necromancers.

For WvW I think Rabid is more common, and better than its s/tPvP brother, as there exists a much higher stat ceiling, and toughness/condition damage synergy gives much more meaning there (whereas in sPvP its like 1 damage per tick of bleeds).

I normally choose Toughness over Vitality: better to ignore the damage before it hits you, isn’t it?

I normally moves between MM and Powermancer. For both, I use full Soldier gear (Power main, Toughness, Vitality).

Currently I am looking for a way to raise my precision… of course, without losing anything else. :P

Haley.2390:

Hey, Bhawb. When you say that Rabid is “very common” for PvP Necros, do you mean “most” or “majority” of PvP Necros go Rabid?

My take from your use of “very common” is that you did not necessarily mean “most” or the “majority” of PvP Necros choose Rabid.

But this Thief in the Thief forum believes you do.

Yes, leaving aside any debate about what is best, Rabid is the most common gear stat for condition Necros.

Haley.2390:

I’m actually interested in all forms of PvP (WvW/sPvP/tPvP) among PvP Necros in general (not just the top tier tPvP Necros.)

Bhawb used “very common” here and this Thief claims that “very common” necessarily means “most”

High tier PvP is a mirror of the most common builds in sPvP. Pretty much any team plays meta builds (most popular) and rarely vary on these builds.

As Bhawb said, there is no doubt that Rabid is the most common set among conditionmancers.

Actually recently with the influx of FotM rerollers a lot of people have gone away what was most commonly used by top tier Necros (almost all Carrion) and more towards Rabid.

Morbridae.8607:

I normally choose Toughness over Vitality: better to ignore the damage before it hits you, isn’t it?

I normally moves between MM and Powermancer. For both, I use full Soldier gear (Power main, Toughness, Vitality).

Currently I am looking for a way to raise my precision… of course, without losing anything else. :P

I ran the numbers near the end of the first page. Basically, Toughness and Vitality are pretty much the same for the Necro, with some builds having a very small preference towards one or another.

For raising your Precision in PvE or WvW, there’s various foods, Maintenance Oil, Fury, and the Sigil of Perception (you can load a Superior Sigil on a rare weapon, kill 25 things with it equipped, then switch to whatever weapon you really want to use).

Blaine Tog.8304:

I ran the numbers near the end of the first page. Basically, Toughness and Vitality are pretty much the same for the Necro, with some builds having a very small preference towards one or another.

For raising your Precision in PvE or WvW, there’s various foods, Maintenance Oil, Fury, and the Sigil of Perception (you can load a Superior Sigil on a rare weapon, kill 25 things with it equipped, then switch to whatever weapon you really want to use).

Numbers should be updated. We have a confirmation from a Gameplay Programmer that Death Shroud is 60% of your maximum HP, going up to max 78% with 30 points into Soul Reaping.

Source: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/DeathShroud-is-now-base-100-HP/first#post2539415

This changes a lot.

I think we should open another topic to officially discuss about toughness vs vitality on Necromancers.

Bhawb.7408:

Carrion has been run by the highest tier Necromancers for a long time, although it is possible they switched to rabid solely for the precision for Dhuumfire. I’ll have to talk to them again to see if anyone has changed, but I don’t see why they would when vitality scaling just got a buff.

I’ll chime in for you Bhawb. Carrion is still completely viable in the current meta IF you hit a certain crit % via runes/sigil/jewel. Carrion will always scale better then rabid due to the way DS interacts with vitality. Rabid just makes sure that dhuumfire is always on ICD, but you can still do this with carrion. Only thing you sacrifice at that point is less condition damage if you do it right.

Bhawb.7408:

Anelyn.4593:

Regarding burning – while the damage is nice for sure, it only takes ~6 stacks of bleed to equal the damage from burning with same condi power. Am sure most of you can self sustain 10+ stacks easily in pvp. (and even aoe).

You will never, ever see 10 stacks of bleeds sustained on any decent player in PvP unless they are 100% out of condition cleanses; and it just will never happen in team play. That is why burning is so strong.

This Sir, is not true! And tbh i think that going for foot in the grave is a way better replacement option for dhuumfire with most teams running a spirit ranger these days.

sorrow.2364:

Blaine Tog.8304:

I ran the numbers near the end of the first page. Basically, Toughness and Vitality are pretty much the same for the Necro, with some builds having a very small preference towards one or another.

For raising your Precision in PvE or WvW, there’s various foods, Maintenance Oil, Fury, and the Sigil of Perception (you can load a Superior Sigil on a rare weapon, kill 25 things with it equipped, then switch to whatever weapon you really want to use).

Numbers should be updated. We have a confirmation from a Gameplay Programmer that Death Shroud is 60% of your maximum HP, going up to max 78% with 30 points into Soul Reaping.

Source: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/DeathShroud-is-now-base-100-HP/first#post2539415

This changes a lot.

I think we should open another topic to officially discuss about toughness vs vitality on Necromancers.

Ok, that’s just bizarre. Something weird is going on with DS, since many people have tested DS and found it to have way more than 60% of our base HP.

You’re right, this deserves its own thread. EDIT: And here it is.

djooceboxblast.9876:

This Sir, is not true! And tbh i think that going for foot in the grave is a way better replacement option for dhuumfire with most teams running a spirit ranger these days.

Yep, I’ll have to come back here and revise it. It is incredibly rare to consistently have 10 stacks of bleeds on your targets, unless you are running a condition comp (at least what I have seen). 10+ bleeds happen all the time due to spike, but I have never seen it maintained for anything more than a few seconds unless the person allowed it to happen (correct me if I am wrong).