Guild Wars 2

I love my Necromancer, and I play it a lot. Perhaps the biggest lure of the class for dungeons was being able to use multiple interrupts on certain bosses to bypass their Defiant stacks and support the team with great damage mitigation. With that gone, perhaps the only justification I ever had for bringing my Necromancer to a dungeon is gone.

Note: The Necromancer is not an awful class, don’t get me wrong. It is still ‘strong enough’, but it is hugely inferior to every other spellcaster and vastly inferior to every soldier class in the end-game PvE scene. Yes, many dungeons are ‘easy enough’ that it doesn’t matter what professions you bring, but many dungeons are hard enough that having intelligent group composition helps substantially reduce the perceived difficulty. Keep this in mind.

Previously:
- Many (re: Half or so) of all Champion+ in the game were immune to Fear already
- Those not immune to Fear could be interrupted by applying Fear under certain circumstances
- The timing of these Fears was crucial and required solid skilled play
- The Necromancer was valuable to the team because it had DS 3 and Staff 5 as fears

Now:
- Many (re: Half or so) of all Champion+ in the game are still immune to Fear
- Those not immune to fear now use up single Defiant stacks instead of being interrupted, rendering Fear largely ineffective against bosses

I have played my Necromancer in quite a few dungeons today, and found him very lacking. Reaper’s Mark is now totally useless against bosses unless you’re lucky and they have no Defiant stacks, which is unreliable. DS 3 is also pathetically useless against champions and legendaries.

The Necromancer now desperately needs something else to provide meaningful contribution to a dungeon team against these bosses. This nerf is significant enough, even if it isn’t directed primarily at Necromancers, that we have had our effectiveness brutally reduced with no compensation at all. I know ANet won’t undo this change, so we need something to help; more CC options / fears, longer fears, more blast finishers, increasing bleed stack limit, any number of these would contribute to making this class worth it in a dungeon again. Hopefully this sees the eyes of those developers that still read here and pushes them in the right direction.

Thanks for reading.

Unbelievable.

Not to sound like an alarmist, but I think this is the final straw for me, seriously. This was the only thing that kept me feeling useful in PvE, being able to fear/lock for a short time or interupt certain bosses.

Hell there was already quite a few bosses that were completely immune to it anyway, was easy to balance. But no. This extends to champion mobs as well.

IMO this makes us the most worthless (in terms of usefulness) PvE class in the game. And I’m officially done.

Oh, and of this makes fear fail to land at all then we’re also losing even MORE dmg if you run a fear/condition build, making the terror buff completely useless. +1 Anet GG.

after some thinking, i too was frustrated with the change to defiant. I actually ditched warhorn in dungeons for the daze interrupt and used fear to interrupt as well.

(there was a daze hole they patched as well)

now i use focus and feel like the class lost a big part of solid skill-reward play.

Yeah nobody benefits from bringing a Necro without the interrupts. And to top that off the majority of content is broken OP already so without these interrupts…

Why does it seem like someone else designed this game then handed it over to a bunch of interns skilled at making coffee and not much else.

Sheobix.8796:

after some thinking, i too was frustrated with the change to defiant. I actually ditched warhorn in dungeons for the daze interrupt and used fear to interrupt as well.

(there was a daze hole they patched as well)

now i use focus and feel like the class lost a big part of solid skill-reward play.

Yeah, as much as I hate going back to sounding like a huge cynic, this is just a huge “slap in the face” to me. It was the sole thing we had in pve that was awesome, that was unique to us, and as you said “skillful”.

Now it’s just, poor condition dmg, decent power dmg, and the situational boon strip that mesmers do more consistently anyway.

I like to think that I have a pretty optimistic view on the necro. Yet, in this case, all I can think is: this just blows… and hard at that.

Arvid.3829:

I like to think that I have a pretty optimistic view on the necro. Yet, in this case, all I can think is: this just blows… and hard at that.

Extremely hard.

Was the only thing I could pride myself on in pve and feel useful.

“See how I interupted those big hits? Yeah, I’m awesome.”

Now I just auto attack with my minions out, wee.

Knote.2904:

Sheobix.8796:

after some thinking, i too was frustrated with the change to defiant. I actually ditched warhorn in dungeons for the daze interrupt and used fear to interrupt as well.

(there was a daze hole they patched as well)

now i use focus and feel like the class lost a big part of solid skill-reward play.

Yeah, as much as I hate going back to sounding like a huge cynic, this is just a huge “slap in the face” to me. It was the sole thing we had in pve that was awesome, that was unique to us, and as you said “skillful”.

Now it’s just, poor condition dmg, decent power dmg, and the situational boon strip that mesmers do more consistently anyway.

i have to say, the patch notes may not make us look that nerfed, but come around to re-assesing the fact that we now only have two viable offhands (dagger which is bugged still w/ dag4… making focus the only good one)

congrats anet, we are now the class that is shoehorned to use focus in one of our sets. (every conditionmancer knows weakening shroud trait> dag5 all the time) so we now have TWO totally effed offhands.

and wait.. oh.. what, we can’t interrupt any bosses anymore? the fack? okay, i will be playing new games now or try to roll a mesmer.

yeah.

and i agree. our condition damage could be upcurved a bit. (trying to calculate a balance between power and cond this week, bleed numbers are REALLY bottom line w/ good gear)

as of power building, when we stack ptv gear, we behave much like a selfish warrior w/o buffs. I just find that we aren’t getting the competitive output unless we really trim the numbers and gear specifically to rock it.

Sheobix.8796:

Knote.2904:

Sheobix.8796:

after some thinking, i too was frustrated with the change to defiant. I actually ditched warhorn in dungeons for the daze interrupt and used fear to interrupt as well.

(there was a daze hole they patched as well)

now i use focus and feel like the class lost a big part of solid skill-reward play.

Yeah, as much as I hate going back to sounding like a huge cynic, this is just a huge “slap in the face” to me. It was the sole thing we had in pve that was awesome, that was unique to us, and as you said “skillful”.

Now it’s just, poor condition dmg, decent power dmg, and the situational boon strip that mesmers do more consistently anyway.

i have to say, the patch notes may not make us look that nerfed, but come around to re-assesing the fact that we now only have two viable offhands (dagger which is bugged still w/ dag4… making focus the only good one)

congrats anet, we are now the class that is shoehorned to use focus in one of our sets. (every conditionmancer knows weakening shroud trait> dag5 all the time) so we now have TWO totally effed offhands.

and wait.. oh.. what, we can’t interrupt any bosses anymore? the fack? okay, i will be playing new games now or try to roll a mesmer.

You KNOW it’s bad when the biggest Necromancer white knighter (no offense) has been turned into just another jaded necro.

Thankfully it’s christmas, and steam will be having a massive sale again, I need a break from this game anyway. =p

Yes thats why I PvE for my fear interrupt.. that is only reason to play necro in PvE… right

less drama please

Things get nerfed, things get buffed – its an MMO

Haven’t even noticed a drop in my pve experience, then again I spend less time complaining and more time playing – who knows I would probably believe all the hate our class gets if I read these forums often enough

On a side note

Necros staff is not a mainhand weapon, its not the only weapon in your arsenal

Savan.8495:

Yes thats why I PvE for my fear interrupt.. that is only reason to play necro in PvE… right

less drama please

Things get nerfed, things get buffed – its an MMO

Haven’t even noticed a drop in my pve experience, then again I spend less time complaining and more time playing – who knows I would probably believe all the hate our class gets if I read these forums often enough

On a side note

Necros staff is not a mainhand weapon, its not the only weapon in your arsenal

ds3 and staff5 was our unique way of helping teams position bosses or herd cows.

example: mining suit boss in FotM to position him under burning oil.

now we have nothing to do that. nothing at all.

your fearing the mining suit to get him into the ‘correct’ position?

… you’re doing it wrong

yes nothing to do nothing at all

Knote.2904:

Sheobix.8796:

Knote.2904:

Sheobix.8796:

after some thinking, i too was frustrated with the change to defiant. I actually ditched warhorn in dungeons for the daze interrupt and used fear to interrupt as well.

(there was a daze hole they patched as well)

now i use focus and feel like the class lost a big part of solid skill-reward play.

Yeah, as much as I hate going back to sounding like a huge cynic, this is just a huge “slap in the face” to me. It was the sole thing we had in pve that was awesome, that was unique to us, and as you said “skillful”.

Now it’s just, poor condition dmg, decent power dmg, and the situational boon strip that mesmers do more consistently anyway.

i have to say, the patch notes may not make us look that nerfed, but come around to re-assesing the fact that we now only have two viable offhands (dagger which is bugged still w/ dag4… making focus the only good one)

congrats anet, we are now the class that is shoehorned to use focus in one of our sets. (every conditionmancer knows weakening shroud trait> dag5 all the time) so we now have TWO totally effed offhands.

and wait.. oh.. what, we can’t interrupt any bosses anymore? the fack? okay, i will be playing new games now or try to roll a mesmer.

You KNOW it’s bad when the biggest Necromancer white knighter (no offense) has been turned into just another jaded necro.

Thankfully it’s christmas, and steam will be having a massive sale again, I need a break from this game anyway. =p

absolutely no offense taken, but it’s sadly true. I was content before the patch, after the defiant change though, (im a heavy dungeon player and champ soloist) this just kitten me off to hell.

STOP MAKING OUR CONDITION CONTROLS USELESS YOU DUMB COMPANY

Savan.8495:

your fearing the mining suit to get him into the ‘correct’ position?

… you’re doing it wrong

yes nothing to do nothing at all

sure. go aggro and limp with cripple to the next oil. fear was our way of quickly getting him into place. staff5>ds3>dag3 done. ds4 life transfer bubble up> repeat.

Savan.8495:

Yes thats why I PvE for my fear interrupt.. that is only reason to play necro in PvE… right

less drama please

Things get nerfed, things get buffed – its an MMO

Haven’t even noticed a drop in my pve experience, then again I spend less time complaining and more time playing – who knows I would probably believe all the hate our class gets if I read these forums often enough

On a side note

Necros staff is not a mainhand weapon, its not the only weapon in your arsenal

We’re talking about dungeons.

We don’t bring anything extremely useful besides being able to actually fearlock and interupt most bosses on demand. No other class could do that, not nearly as well as us.

We bring lower DPS, boon strip that is inferior to mesmer’s and not even necessary or useful most of the time, then some mild condition removal support in the form of Signet of Plague, (again outshined).

Being able to fear bosses was the only unique and exciting thing we had.

And no, staff isn’t our only weapon, but it’s our best and mandatory one. This is what we do on a fight.

Put marks on cooldown, swap, put #2/3 on cooldown, auto, death shroud, more auto, swap, marks on cooldown, auto, swap, #2/3 on cooldown, auto, death shroud, auto.

So exciting.

Savan.8495:

your fearing the mining suit to get him into the ‘correct’ position?

… you’re doing it wrong

yes nothing to do nothing at all

That’s just one example, and not every run is perfect. I’ve used fear to fix his position before as well.

Some more example.

AC Kohler, perfectly timed (too early and it fails)Dooms can interupt every spin and save your caught teammates and make him an easier fight.

AC Last bosses, insanely powerful howls or breeders that spawn adds, interupting the right one can prevent deaths, and make the fight end faster.

Snowblind Fractal last boss, interupt every Freezing Breath.

Swamp Fractal mossman, interupt his stealth alpha strikes to save a teammate, or fear lock him into a wall/corner and prevent some stealths so the fight doesn’t take forever.

Dredge Fractal, fear mining suit/frost elemental channels that either self heal or do aoe dmg.

Underwater Fractal, fear bomb jellyfish boss into electrified cages, epidemic/fear adds.

Ascalon Fractal, cc lock bosses, and interupt big hit on last boss.

Also a very important one is, golem charge into a double fear to save a downed teammate, or even double fear—> epidemic to fear a group of mobs to save a downed teammate. This is extremely important when you start dealing with agony. Which btw, we’re still bugged I’m guessing so it does double dmg to our Death Shroud.

No more of any of that, in fact, no need to even think anymore. Back to just facerolling with our boring rotation to bring subpar DPS, and utility.

Sorry I don’t see where your coming from, as someone who solely runs PVE I don’t see how a small defiance change unravels the whole experience

You can solo champs because you created a power necro with vast amounts of vitality, an equivalant cond necro or power necro or most classes (when played correctly can do the same things)

Also side note side note, I wouldn’t advise on the power vit toughness build you use

Edit: by PVE is mean dungeons, yes that’s all I do, I don’t sPVP, I find WvW too zergy, I spend most of this time in this game running dungeons I know what works I know what doesn’t work

If you feel so passionately about how sucky we are, please reroll – tired of these repetitive posts

People do kittene dps because they either gear incorrectly or play incorrectly this isn’t a warrior, so many people expect to button mash and suddenly appear on top

The whole concept of fearing is simply masking bad positioning/dodging on account of you or your fellow teammates, why should necro be the only profession that brings this ‘vital’ skill to dungeons

Oh wait its not vital, this whole argument is kitten /p>

Savan.8495:

People do kittene dps because they either gear incorrectly or play incorrectly this isn’t a warrior, so many people expect to button mash and suddenly appear on top

The whole concept of fearing is simply masking bad positioning/dodging on account of you or your fellow teammates, why should necro be the only profession that brings this ‘vital’ skill to dungeons

Oh wait its not vital, this whole argument is kittened

It’s not vital, but it’s the same as any other unique utility classes bring. Reflect walls aren’t vital, neither are guardian/ele/engy heals, or boon strips, or mesmer time warp, or stealth.

And yeah, masking bad positioning/dodging, go play with Agony a bit will ya, the unavoidable mechanic.

The bad DPS is a fact with our class, not about bad builds/gear. I don’t even care that we’re not top DPS, I’m not asking for that, we should bring SOMETHING to the table though.

Btw, you’re forced to bring minions if you actually want to bring decent dmg. I use minions almost exclusively in dungeons, most useful thing we can possibly bring now, extra bodies to absorb hits, and more dps that we lack.

Savan, most of the necros that are still on this forum like Sheobix.8796 and ascii have tried multiple builds with multiple armor stats and trait setups over and over. They crunch numbers, try out instance/wvwvw/pvp and just about everything. Sheobix has defend the necro so many times and he has a very good build on the forums that i encouraged others to use because it is a good solid build that works for the necromancer. If you do not see how the defiant change affects necros with daze and the fears you do not know what you are talking about for pve purpose. We could use the interrupted boss mob during its attacks, heals, and even help move to a location because of how fear worked. Same with the daze, it was something we had on basically demand, sure our fears didnt last long but we have access to more of them and could help out groups with them when we needed to.

Every agony attack in this game is avoidable, with the exception of Jade Maw

and even then on the boss where the attack is unavoidable with 20 resist at level 30 you can survive by healing once and popping DS where as every other teammate with 20 resist will drop like a stone

I have played with ‘agony’ and I found the results just delightful, alot can be learned from ‘mastering DS’ – sorry had to put that in :P

yeah bud, I play just about every single game mode in Gw2 just to see how all the builds people post or discuss about (including testing builds for specific mechanics.. like the new popularized “terrormancers” which i just tested yesterday..)
And we’re not idiots. a lot of us are skilled players who like to inspect every skill, utility, strategy, and playstyle. I for one only play serious dungeon runs with guildmates through ventrilo, and we get through out of communication, timing our CC abilities or stacking buffs (Lich+guardian and warrior might+Mesmer Time warp= win) but because of the patching of the interrupt hole in Defiant, we now have to spam staff1, dag1, spectral utils, or autoattack and kite in DS to take damage if we’re dealing with bosses or champion mobs. Being rendered with no counter-attack strategy against fighting bosses is awful. It’s also really boring, because every time i get aggro now, i’m just going to hit DS and use a jackalope transform potion to drop my aggro instead of fearing/chilling and positioning.

The issues gamefreak with, are as follows

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Juggermancer-PTV-Build-Pending-Update-v3-2/first

Assuming everyone has the best gear, directing new players to a horrendous farm for a poor stat setup
The theory crafting on that page, simply involved going to http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Item_nomenclature and adding up the numbers, you didn’t even consider split sets
2 defensive stats is redundant – anyone in high level fractals is aware of that
Precision is more superior than power for doing dps – theorycraft your heart out
You advertise this as a tank build but you neglect DS – our key tanking ability
“Minimizes the inherent weakness in the class” – Sorry I am not clear what that is? Is it our tanking ability? No wait we have the highest hp in game with the exception of warriors, so what is our inherent weakness?

I think a lot of people tend to over think this game when they get into a static group with ventrilo

Try pugging sometimes, our class isn’t as broken as it appears from reading these forums

Savan.8495:

The issues gamefreak with, are as follows

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Juggermancer-PTV-Build-Pending-Update-v3-2/first

Assuming everyone has the best gear, directing new players to a horrendous farm for a poor stat setup
The theory crafting on that page, simply involved going to http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Item_nomenclature and adding up the numbers, you didn’t even consider split sets
2 defensive stats is redundant – anyone in high level fractals is aware of that
Precision is more superior than power for doing dps – theorycraft your heart out
You advertise this as a tank build but you neglect DS – our key tanking ability
“Minimizes the inherent weakness in the class” – Sorry I am not clear what that is? Is it our tanking ability? No wait we have the highest hp in game with the exception of warriors, so what is our inherent weakness?

i only use that wiki page to reference which bonuses are major and which are minor, and the hotlist breakdowns for M/m/m numbers for each set of either gear, accessories, and upgrade slots.

And I did consider split sets, genius. If you actually read the thread it involves many players asking questions, discussions on different tweaked versions of the builds, and their alternative strengths and weaknesses. Nobody has to do the ascended gear grind, and the build and playstyle works very very well will a set of cheap knight’s accessories and Dungeon farmed PTV gear.

I’m not even going to assess the dumb point you tried to make saying that “2 defensive stats is redundant” when our class has unique mechanics that benefit greatly from stacking vitality and toughness. If you have a real beef with the build, go discuss it properly with valid supported points in the actual thread instead of trying to knock it off in another thread like an idiot.

As for precision>power, I would like to know how you can find better numbers with fully stacked precision and still retain your defensive stats. Because if you have even the slightest idea of how to combine multliple stat combinations and offensive attributes vs. defensive attributes, you’d understand it doesn’t take long to push precision or condition damage with power before you lose out on vitality or toughness, or even both.

Savan.8495:

I think a lot of people tend to over think this game when they get into a static group with ventrilo

Try pugging sometimes, our class isn’t as broken as it appears from reading these forums

I run more pugs than static parties. gw2lfg.com is my second home.

you’re a really ballsy troll trying to dance around on other players who put a lot of time into breaking apart the class to offer insight/pros+cons on everything and anything this class can do.

there is a reason why Rabid and Soldier prefixed items are THE HARDEST to obtain. They aren’t bad stat combinations. They are the two strongest bases to build from, from either a condition standpoint or a power standpoint.

edit: you do know who you’re talking to, right? I’m probably the one guy that has defended this class the most by far and I don’t complain about specific things with the class lightly without weighing the alternatives or positives/ “bright sides” of things.

Well, we’re talking with some… um… people who supposedly run dungeons but somehow thinks the daze change and fear change aren’t significant…. which means they’ve been running dungeons without expending any effort to keep bosses off of people. Also, they understand necro so little that they doesn’t understand that we see better benefits from BOTH vit and tough than other classes do.

I don’t see why we’re even trying to convince such people. Especially when they tell us that we want to just mash buttons then immediately admit they aren’t even attempting CC.

The main place the Defiant nerf hurts us in against bosses with powerful self heals, especially like the Dredge fractal mining suit boss. Without a necro or a very CC heavy team, that fight could take an extremely long time due to its powerful heal.

Now that necros have been taken out of the picture, you need a CC heavy team to defeat him quickly.

So, just so I get this straight:

…as someone who solely runs PVE…
Edit: by PVE is mean dungeons, yes that’s all I do, I don’t sPVP, I find WvW too zergy, I spend most of this time in this game running dungeons I know what works I know what doesn’t work

You solely run PVE, also you know what works and know what doesn’t.

Savan.8495:

I don’t see how a small defiance change unravels the whole experience

You didn’t use fear to interrupt Unshakable mobs. (Although it did work…)

Savan.8495:

The whole concept of fearing is simply masking bad positioning/dodging on account of you or your fellow teammates

Sheobix, Knote (and possibly their whole teams) need to l2p?

Savan.8495:

Oh wait its not vital, this whole argument is kittened

No, it’s not vital; 90% of the game is not vital. Yet, having something in your arsenal that can forgive some of the mistakes made by you or you team is very useful. So the argument is actually about the fact that this gave our class a unique role (and one that wasn’t even directly tied in to the Trinity). If you’ve accidentally seen the latest GuildCast-episodes, you’ll know that that’s actually a pretty huge deal and it just being taken away from you like this is a pretty huge reason to complain.

And as an added bonus;

If you feel so passionately about how sucky we are, please reroll – tired of these repetitive posts

These guys have pretty much always been the exact opposite of that so far, so gg on raging on the right people.

PS. I know this is pretty much what Manticore Five said, I was just to slow

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

The main place the Defiant nerf hurts us in against bosses with powerful self heals, especially like the Dredge fractal mining suit boss. Without a necro or a very CC heavy team, that fight could take an extremely long time due to its powerful heal.

Now that necros have been taken out of the picture, you need a CC heavy team to defeat him quickly.

That fight is in fact made quicker by higher dps, and people dodging agony barrage (not bombs)

If the boss is healing you are not moving it quickly enough between lava points, it could be the case that your “cc heavy team” is actually applying cripple between lava points, in general staff 2,3 is sufficient for lava points – it could also be the case your team is using pets/clones

The whole post is not a L2P post (dont worry i’ll post one in a few days)

Its simply trying to say

This is an MMO, things get nerfed, things get buffed, things change – deal with it or play another class

The change is not significant to undermine the whole purpose/playstyle of our class – its just a lot of unnecessary drama – much like a certain reanimator post

Arvid.3829:

So, just so I get this straight:

…as someone who solely runs PVE…
Edit: by PVE is mean dungeons, yes that’s all I do, I don’t sPVP, I find WvW too zergy, I spend most of this time in this game running dungeons I know what works I know what doesn’t work

You solely run PVE, also you know what works and know what doesn’t.

Many of the posts here bring PvP discussions into PvE posts or vice versa, that just confuses everyone – some builds that excel in WvW do not work as well in PvE – that’s where I test builds

Savan.8495:

I don’t see how a small defiance change unravels the whole experience

You didn’t use fear to interrupt Unshakable mobs. (Although it did work…)

I did, I was pointing out that this small change is not significant to undermine my enjoyment of this game or the class

Savan.8495:

The whole concept of fearing is simply masking bad positioning/dodging on account of you or your fellow teammates

Sheobix, Knote (and possibly their whole teams) need to l2p?

I would say that is a L2P issue

Savan.8495:

Oh wait its not vital, this whole argument is kittened

No, it’s not vital; 90% of the game is not vital. Yet, having something in your arsenal that can forgive some of the mistakes made by you or you team is very useful. So the argument is actually about the fact that this gave our class a unique role (and one that wasn’t even directly tied in to the Trinity). If you’ve accidentally seen the latest GuildCast-episodes, you’ll know that that’s actually a pretty huge deal and it just being taken away from you like this is a pretty huge reason to complain.

Can’t say i’ve ever watched GuildCast, as someone who frequents this forum (and while it is very pessimistic view) you should know that we garner very little attention by the developers – we only got posts after two members sent 2 cakes

I blame the multiple whine thread that mask the genuine complaints – but who knows

And as an added bonus;

If you feel so passionately about how sucky we are, please reroll – tired of these repetitive posts

These guys have pretty much always been the exact opposite of that so far, so gg on raging on the right people.

PS. I know this is pretty much what Manticore Five said, I was just to slow

Wasn’t raging just trying to discourage the whine

Wow >.> Savan is the first to go on my ignore list… i really thought i would never have to use that thing.

sucks, those were some pretty ignorant posts.

Awesome’sauce, I welcome my addition to your ignore list

Another 15 characters

Edit: Hmmm in retrospec I was probably a little harsh in my posts

This is simplest way to communicate what I am trying to say in as few words

1) This change was intentional i.e. it was not a byproduct of another fix
2) I expect Arenanet were trying to ‘balance’ PvE by ensuring one class was not ‘prefferd’ to another for an ability – you know the old saying bring the player not the class
3) The fact is the community are unhappy with this current series of update, and instead of discussing the major issues (pet pathfinding) everyone decides to jump on the “they nerfed this bandwagon” – these posts contribute very little I find

Note I said current update, once again its an MMO kitten gets nerfed kitten gets buffed – kitten eventually get balanced-ish some of the time

I apoligize if not watching guild wars 2 players stream on the internet makes me ignorant (I occasionally watch Tales of Tyria, they do planetside coverage to rofl)

Thanks Sheobix, didn’t know we had that capability.

So, i think i understand savan, more dps is the answer to everything. We have have weak/broken/pointless traits we just ignore them. We have a broken minion AI not attacking mobs for 20+ seconds sometimes, just ignore those as well. We have discussed our flaws with things over and over and over in these treads already, this though really distress’s alot of necro player base because its something i dont think anyone ever complained about.

So finally comments DS, dodging and dps is the key to necro. Everyone else needs to l2p who disagrees with you. Thank you sir, i am enlightened now.

gamefreak.5673:

So, i think i understand savan, more dps is the answer to everything. We have have weak/broken/pointless traits we just ignore them. We have a broken minion AI not attacking mobs for 20+ seconds sometimes, just ignore those as well. DS is the key to everything also. Everyone else needs to l2p who disagrees with you. Thank you sir, i am enlightened now.

Sorry which thread were you reading?

See previous posts

OHMYGOD no! why doesn’t the ignore function work! why cant Arenanet get ANYTHING right!

sigh.

on a side note, mesmers got their clone reaction times super-shaved to .25 seconds, and people are reporting that they are now attacking before a player can render/see them on screen.

So wait.. A company decides to “buff” an already OP class, creates a bug, and says “yeah, it’s something i need to work on”? seriously?

if they cant fix things correctly, they should just hire some other contracted developers to do it for them.

also, proof that they WANT mesmers to be OP is on the home page of gw2 where the mesmer description is.

“…Mesmers are magical duelists who wield deception as a weapon. Using powerful illusions, clones, and phantasmal magic to confuse and distract their foes, mesmers make sure every fight is balanced in their favor and their opponents can’t believe their eyes.”

i hope you caught the part that says mesmers make sure every fight is balanced in their favor and pray to god this isn’t some heinous nightmare.

That quote is proof? Lol

Quick add me to that ignore list, save us both from the ignorance

Discovered this today as well.
…
Unkittenbelievable.

Why:
We’re the only class without block. Fear kinda was our block. Tricky to use, but hey.
Now we can’t block (all other classes can) and can’t save ourselves with fear either.

Going to leave this post now, let it degenerate into the whine thread it was always going to become

()Sheds a tear()

Better luck next time necro community

Who are you anyway and why we should care?

It’s not an issue of balance or power level. The issue is that necro became less interesting and unique. Before, I had a really compelling reason to take my necro with a group, similarly to how mesmers have a handful of unique mechanics that make them desired in groups.

Necro doesn’t do anything special now. It just kinda sits there and spams damage and minor healing (regen off staff and/or well of blood) but nothing special that makes you want to play your necro over other professions.

Khristophoros.7194:

It’s not an issue of balance or power level. The issue is that necro became less interesting and unique. Before, I had a really compelling reason to take my necro with a group, similarly to how mesmers have a handful of unique mechanics that make them desired in groups.

Necro doesn’t do anything special now. It just kinda sits there and spams damage and minor healing (regen off staff and/or well of blood) but nothing special that makes you want to play your necro over other professions.

This ^^^^

Hmmmm…auditor’s nose twitching now…..baited a hostile response from staunch necro supporters (in the past anyway)…..derailed what was a good thread about our abilities……leaves in a huff with the what seems like some sort of “official” sign off (“better luck next time necro community”) as though……no surely not….couldn’t be……who is he?

Oldbugga.7029:

Hmmmm…auditor’s nose twitching now…..baited a hostile response from staunch necro supporters (in the past anyway)…..derailed what was a good thread about our abilities……leaves in a huff with the what seems like some sort of “official” sign off (“better luck next time necro community”) as though……no surely not….couldn’t be……who is he?

Back again

I kind of like the image of me as a staunch supporter of the Necromancer strutting around handing out my necromancer propaganda, telling everyone everything is fine

Note the following is my personal opinion, I expect this will degenerate rather quickly into a flame war (again) – would of been smarter to let this thread die, ah well lets debate

For anyone that has ever played an MMO for any length of time, crap gets buffed, crap gets nerfed, crap gets balanced-ish some of the time – sometimes your awesome, sometimes your character sucks – its up to you to look for the positive aspects when your the latter

A lot of our problems with our class are long-term issues that have been plaguing us since beta, pets; DS UI, no chase abilities etc

Many necromancers feel our profession needs major attention. Some maintain the view that our class offers nothing unique. Some believe that other classes can do what we do better, they believe our defining ability is underwhelming – while I agree with a lot of these, some of them I don’t agree with

Now onto the real crux

When you create one of these threads, this is what happens:

1) OP is frustrated, he starts by creating a thread along the lines of Necros suck etc – i.e. framing his opinion (which may be a genuine gripe) as a negative
2) Person A reads it, believes we our the kitten child of Anet, walks into the next post sand starts spouting off the OP opinion as fact, telling every other necro that we are broken
3) New player reads this crap and re-rolls a warrior, mesmer (whatever you feel is the most OP class at present)
4) Current players look at these forums and believe some of the crap like “Necros bring nothing to dungeons, they are useless”
5) Players stop bringing Necros to dungeons
6) Mass Exodus from the Necromancer class

(Note just today I found that someone had posted – “Necromancers bring nothing to dungeons, they are useless” – it was citing this post – can’t find it at present)

All of these issues could have easily been resolved if the OP had just taken the time to construct his OP in a constructive manner; make suggestions about how they can make DS for fulfilling, investigate the pet pathing issue, suggest alternatives – new utilities

I get it your frustrated, but no need to vent in multiple threads – we have soo many of these

If you worked at Anet, which would you prefer to;
A) Read threads about how ‘broken’ a class is, posts about your love for warriors and mesmers and general whine based on out of date information
B) Read threads offering up suggestions, alternatives, ways to improve the game and the profession

Personally I would prefer the latter

Side note

Grubs do not spawn off of re-animator/pets at Lupicius (this issue was hotfixed) stop posting about it I get it, you read some out of date information

If Anet do read this (which I doubt), the solution is simple:

Communicate with your player base

I disagree with the defiant change as well, but more for purist/systematic reasons.
Imo conditions and cc effects must be seperated at all times. No surprise then that I hate that fear counts as both a condition and a cc effect (so this defiant change really is a “is now working as intended”). Fear should be a condition only imo. Stability is currently “protects against cc effects oh and also fear because kitten fear”. The end result is that fear is the worst ‘cc’ because it’s removable by both stunbreaking and condition removal.
So apparently that’s how Anet rolls. Yet Immobilize is in fact purely a condition, not removable by stunbreak, even though every part of that condition screams CC.

Savan, since I apparently can’t ignore you I might as well reply to you.

No, you weren’t being referred to as a staunch Necro supporter… Sheobix was, as anyone who has read previous threads in this forum or can correctly parse the plain english Oldbugga was typing already knows.

And no, not everyone avoids necros because they read something in the official forums. How much of the playerbase do you think is in this thread, anyway? And even if we adopted some kind of Omerta about the failures in class design, how do you propose to cleanse the dozens of non-official GW2 forums of double-plus badthink?

Sometimes you can’t mask the smell of a decomposing body with a air freshener. It just stinks too much.

I am aware Sheobix is/was a keen supporter of the necromancer class, I was merely suggesting that anyone that actually disagrees with the constant whine posts is viewed as going against the majority

Maybe you should take a look at

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/On-necros-being-broken

Funnily enough it was written by one of the contributors of this thread, I think you will find most of the content hasn’t actually changed

Necromancer is not dead or dying…. less drama please

In terms of forums, I think you will find most of these whine posts only appear on the official class forums (the same has been true since WoW). Its as if people just expect to complain and whine and suddenly get their way, try being a little proactive

Here’s a tip: “Anet broke my class” is not being proactive

If you insist on complaining for the sake of complaining, reroll, it is that simple

I hate to say it, Savan, but it appears the only drama originating in this thread is from you. This is a serious nerf to necromancer viability in dungeons; they have no unique niche that is actually valuable. They just dps, slight heal, and that’s it. They are a lot less valuable against every boss in the game. This is a fact, and I’m not whining about it; I’m stating it.

Never did I say “ANet broke my class”. Never once have I complained for the sake of complaining. This thread is intended to bring light to how major a nerf this was to the Necromancer versus bosses (Note the specificity of this one aspect of their gameplay), and that they really need compensation in some other form in order to be brought up to at least a worthwhile level. Please, stop trying to grind a thread that says something on the order of “we were nerfed, we could be better, and we should be” to “OMG WE SUCK”. It’s not helpful.

I always thought fear working on bosses was intentional. The duration is crazy short and both skills that have it are on long cooldowns. We don’t really have that many CC skills to effectively deal with stacks of defiance. When mobs use it on us it’s usually like 5 seconds long, but ours are all 1s base.

But most important things were immune to it anyway so I guess I won’t worry too much over it. It was only a part of what I did.

So to clarify?

Necromancers aren’t viable in dungeons anymore because they removed the ability to fear mobs….. ok that’s cool

If you insist as much, better reroll warrior

I’ll go back to running dungeons, seems no issue there

“Anet broke my class” was my attempt at paraphrasing the consensus attitude in this thread

The reason this apparently broke your ‘boss’ viability is because you are either
a) running a cond spec – guess what you are designed for aoe situations
b) running a ‘juggermancer’ spec – double dipping in defensive skills is overkill
c) running a poorly optimised power build

None of the above, then please enlighten me what you curretly run and why this is such a massie ‘nerf’. If all you bring to boss situations is fear/daze then guess what,

Your doing it wrong