Guild Wars 2

I do not know if anyone has pointed this out, yet, but the proposed HoT trait lines have not only themes but choices for each level that roughly equate to power, condition, defense/sustain.

This, and separating stat’s from trait lines, should make previously unworkable builds more effective for a greater true variety of builds.

Suggestion regarding Beyond The Veil: Why not change it to “Nearby allies gain Protection when you leave Death Shroud. 360 radius, no AoE cap.”

This makes it comparable to the Guardian trait Communal Defenses. Your minions will usually be in this range anyway, but now it also allows the Necro to add defensive support to a team. Protection is arguably weaker than Aegis, and despite not including a cooldown, there is a higher cost associated with it for the Necro: namely they are without defense for the next 10/7 seconds.

Anchoku.8142:

I do not know if anyone has pointed this out, yet, but the proposed HoT trait lines have not only themes but choices for each level that roughly equate to power, condition, defense/sustain.

This, and separating stat’s from trait lines, should make previously unworkable builds more effective for a greater true variety of builds.

The problem is our lines are far too focused on certain builds, meaning only one type of build is really suitable for some lines. Looking at the grandmasters its like you have to run minions to use Death magic and you have to be condi to run Curses. This is really bad and is the biggest issue with the proposed changes. None of the other classes have this level of excessive focus on a role per traitline.

I’ve always had the idea that necro, with its severe lack of active defense, instead needs to punish and/or make people think about actually targeting us to begin with. Thematically, this would be best done through your classic thorns-style of defense.

Something along the lines of Spiteful Spirit, but greatly expanded on, even making it our primary defense together with Death Shroud. From simple things like damage return on getting hit to buffing allies/debuffing enemies around you when you take damage.

The primary idea is to make the enemies reconsider whether they should attack the necro or not in any given situation. I’d also like it to be tied to Death Shroud, so that it’s at the same time a semi-active choice by the necro itself aswell as not making him completely untouchable.

It fits us thematically aswell as mechanically. If we’re supposed to facetank without active defense, we need ways to make it less of an obvious choice for the enemy to simply gank us down and carry on, like our situation mostly is at the moment.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Suggestion regarding Beyond The Veil: Why not change it to “Nearby allies gain Protection when you leave Death Shroud. 360 radius, no AoE cap.”

This makes it comparable to the Guardian trait Communal Defenses. Your minions will usually be in this range anyway, but now it also allows the Necro to add defensive support to a team. Protection is arguably weaker than Aegis, and despite not including a cooldown, there is a higher cost associated with it for the Necro: namely they are without defense for the next 10/7 seconds.

I agree.

spoj.9672:

The problem is our lines are far too focused on certain builds meaning only one type of build is really suitable for some lines. Looking at the grandmasters its like you have to run minions to use Death magic and you have to be condi to run Curses. This is really bad and is the biggest issue with the proposed changes. None of the other classes have this level of excessive focus on a role per traitline.

I agree.

And since we’re talking about unfair bias against the necro, here’s something I wanted to add in regards to Terror taking up a gm slot:

Devs @ engi’s Grenadier trait (3rd granade becomes default):
“It makes no sense that there was a trait that gives a 50% damage boost on granades.
And it’s the one that everyone always took, so there was no reason to withhold that and we wanted to give you more meaningful choices.”

Oh I don’t think anyone mentioned this but if this isn’t just limited to traits, a lot of our cooldowns and after cast are really long and should be given a second look. I.e reapers touch cast time + after cast makes casting it useless because I could have used dagger auto attacks in the time I spent trying to get reapers touch off.

Also axe needs to have increased range, 900.

This has been talked about in the forums for some while. Idk if you want to throw that in your report but yeeeeeah.

Thanks for starting this, Gates! I put my opinions on the trait changes here and in the 3 posts immediately after that one, but I’ll put a tl;dr here for you:
1. Because conditionmancer’s build bleed stacks really slowly, and don’t inflict a lot of different conditions, they need the burst damage from Terror to down people. Otherwise a full cleanse means your opponent has managed to reset the fight. Condition duration doesn’t matter when cleansing is frequent.
2. New Terror tooltip damage seems 45% lower than now. If this is accurate then it won’t be able to provide that burst.
3. New Dhuumfire is excellent, because going into DS always meant lower DPS as a terrorrmancer. Now this allows you keep up that DPS. But Burning damage seems to be 50% of current levels (probably correct, since they’d have to lower damage if they’re gonna make it stack), this can’t replace Terror either.
4. The post-patch Terrormancer would need both Dhuumfire and Terror to maintain current levels of burst. This is possible, but it means you can’t take Foot in the Grave.
5. The conditionmancer lacks sustain, escapes, stability, and mobility. The new buffed Foot in the Grave made a huge difference when fighting against lots of CC, and it would be a shame to be locked out of access from it because we now need Dhuumfire to replace the nerfed Terror damage!
6. Like I said here Drarnor’s suggestion of merging Terror and Master of Terror into a SR GM, moving Dhuumfire to master tier,and creating a new power-focussed trait for Curses GM would solve this problem, as well as making Curses a good option for powermancers. Any other change that puts Dhuumfire and FitG on different tiers would work for me.
7. Every line should have options for all different kinds of necro builds. Curses has no GM worth taking for power builds, Death has no GM worth taking for non-MMs, Spite and Blood have no GMs worth taking for condi.
8. Spiteful Spirit is ok, but it would’ve been better if it either buffed boon removal (“remove or corrupt one additional boon” when using a skill that does that) or if it profited from it (“when you remove or corrupt boons, inflict damage for each boon remaining on your target”, low scaling so zerkers can’t one-shot people with it, and 5" ICD so it doesn’t proc multiple times on well of corruption).
9. Why remove Chilling Darkness now that we have an “on chill” trait to synergise with it?
10. The Weakening Shroud change is a huge nerf. Necros need more weakness, not less! We have no vigor, no blocks, little mobility, at least give us more means to debuff the enemy’s offensive strength. Not less weakness and less chill. Longer cooldown on the new trait means Weakness won’t stick with the amount of cleansing around these days. Frequent reapplication is more important than longer duration.
11. Similarly, Withering Precision should’ve been buffed and kept, not removed.
12. Death Shiver, Reaper’s Precision, Parasitic Contagion, Unholy Sanctuary, and Blood to Power are weak.
13. Deathly Invigoration is a terrible change! We need more healing in DS, not rubbing our faces into the fact that we can’t get any!
14. Beyond the Veil needs to affect all allies, not just minions
15. Necromantic Corruption is a good idea, but the transfer interval needs to be lower and not tied to attacks, because minions will just kill themselves between conditions applied to them and conditions they pull from you.
16. Since we can’t have Vigor (for religious reasons, apparently), what about Bhawb’s idea of a trait that lets you steal endurance when you attack someone? Could be something like 2% per boon on the target. Could become the new Withering Precision even.

Let me also echo the desire for a rework of DS. Every class is getting more and more team support abilities that necros can’t benefit from. Healing needs to at least partially go through it – self-traited healing like life siphons needs to be allowed to heal fully.
I know there would be a trade-off: maybe life force will run down a lot faster, so that the most DS you can get is 5-6". That’s fine, as long as they let us build life force up faster too.
Maybe it isn’t an extra health bar at all. Maybe you still take normal damage (maybe full damage, maybe reduced), and DS just equips the DS skills. If so, we’ll need more on-entry DS defensive traits (boons, debuffing surrounding enemies, etc). More stuff in the vein of Foot in the Grave.

Let me also echo this:

I’ll just leave this here: August 2011 Dark Path

@ manverupped: Chilling Darkness is still there. In fact, it’s effectiveness was doubled.

spoj.9672:

Anchoku.8142:

I do not know if anyone has pointed this out, yet, but the proposed HoT trait lines have not only themes but choices for each level that roughly equate to power, condition, defense/sustain.

This, and separating stat’s from trait lines, should make previously unworkable builds more effective for a greater true variety of builds.

The problem is our lines are far too focused on certain builds, meaning only one type of build is really suitable for some lines. Looking at the grandmasters its like you have to run minions to use Death magic and you have to be condi to run Curses. This is really bad and is the biggest issue with the proposed changes. None of the other classes have this level of excessive focus on a role per traitline.

I do agree that each of the three options within any one trait line are not weighted equally but what I see is a fair start. Balancing of traits within each line for all professions will take six months at a minimum.

For the most part, current traits were translated directly from the old system to the new one and more work is needed.

Within each thematic trait line should be three sub-lines: one for doing damage, one for defense or healing, and one for group utility.

The thematic lines are how the player specializes in the most general sense – spectral, DS, minions, wells, etc.

The sub-lines should trade dps for sustain for utility

I am really hoping our 10 skills get re-evaluated to support this.

As you say, there are no significant changes to Necromancer’s current state. I think the changes to trait lines will open up the rest of the profession for change but it will be a long process.

The current weapon skills, utilities, and trait are all knotted together. This is why new players keep asking for help with builds. The professions do not have similar enough trait systems to easily translate between them and the current system has many dependent variables.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

@ manverupped: Chilling Darkness is still there. In fact, it’s effectiveness was doubled.

That’s awesome! I didn’t notice it cause it was all the way at the bottom of Dulfy’s screenshots and I didn’t scroll down enough :p

Would have been nice if we’d gotten a blind on fear trait to go with it!

manveruppd.7601:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

@ manverupped: Chilling Darkness is still there. In fact, it’s effectiveness was doubled.

That’s awesome! I didn’t notice it cause it was all the way at the bottom of Dulfy’s screenshots and I didn’t scroll down enough :p

Would have been nice if we’d gotten a blind on fear trait to go with it!

That buff and the small buff to Armored Shroud seem to have gone unnoticed by everyone.

Ooh! It could be called Blind Panic!

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

manveruppd.7601:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

@ manverupped: Chilling Darkness is still there. In fact, it’s effectiveness was doubled.

That’s awesome! I didn’t notice it cause it was all the way at the bottom of Dulfy’s screenshots and I didn’t scroll down enough :p

Would have been nice if we’d gotten a blind on fear trait to go with it!

That buff and the small buff to Armored Shroud seem to have gone unnoticed by everyone.

Ooh! It could be called Blind Panic!

Fear of the Dark

Aesa.4819:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

manveruppd.7601:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

@ manverupped: Chilling Darkness is still there. In fact, it’s effectiveness was doubled.

That’s awesome! I didn’t notice it cause it was all the way at the bottom of Dulfy’s screenshots and I didn’t scroll down enough :p

Would have been nice if we’d gotten a blind on fear trait to go with it!

That buff and the small buff to Armored Shroud seem to have gone unnoticed by everyone.

Ooh! It could be called Blind Panic!

Fear of the Dark

While a good song, not the best name for the trait as it implies Blind causes Fear. Blind Panic is being so afraid, you don’t perceive things properly.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Aesa.4819:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

manveruppd.7601:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

@ manverupped: Chilling Darkness is still there. In fact, it’s effectiveness was doubled.

That’s awesome! I didn’t notice it cause it was all the way at the bottom of Dulfy’s screenshots and I didn’t scroll down enough :p

Would have been nice if we’d gotten a blind on fear trait to go with it!

That buff and the small buff to Armored Shroud seem to have gone unnoticed by everyone.

Ooh! It could be called Blind Panic!

Fear of the Dark

While a good song, not the best name for the trait as it implies Blind causes Fear. Blind Panic is being so afraid, you don’t perceive things properly.

You are correct. I realized now that I read it backwards

The only change I want is for Greater Marks to be in a trait line that fits it more(a line that non-minion builds want to use, maybe Soul Reaping), for it to be rolled into baseline, or for it to be rolled into Soul Marks.

Any news on where the GS trait will be?

Anchoku.8142:

Any news on where the GS trait will be?

The Elite specialization would make sense, as it’s required to equip if you want to use Greatsword at all.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Anchoku.8142:

Any news on where the GS trait will be?

The Elite specialization would make sense, as it’s required to equip if you want to use Greatsword at all.

Hopefully there wont be one at all. Would be sad if you have to use a tree to use a weapon AND use points just to make it worth it. :P Just seems to strange to me…

You don’t necessarily need to trait for a weapon to “make it worth it”. Take a look at our Dagger for a prime example (either hand).

#donttouchmyterror

Having traits that align itself to what makes it unique is perfectly fine and actually makes sense to me. Greatsword is only possible if you go with the first elite specialization so putting a GS trait elsewhere makes it useless without it. As a side note, ever since the article came out, I’ve been of the thought the new use for life force will be the trait to give us a break bar instead.

Having said that, the goal really needs to be that the updates make necromancer viable (I use the term necro here to mean the core, non-elite specialization profession). If kept as it was presented to us on Friday, I’ve looked through my builds and see that in each case it wouldn’t take much in the elite specialization to make me go into that instead of something else. That is not a good thing.

Gates! I never expected to see you in the necromancer forum!

Terror and Curses grandmasters:
Problem 1: Curses has no grandmaster that is even remotely useful for non-condition builds.
Problem 2: Terror vs the new Lingering Curses? Terror loses with its face in the dirt.

Terror, has always been a must-choose trait for condition builds not because it has been grandmaster worthy but because the added damage is crucial for condition builds. Beside some added damage however, this trait doesn’t bring any more functionality to the table and it just outright loses vs 100% condition duration “while holding a scepter” which equals double duration Signet of Spite and pretty much everything else in the utility slot.
50% duration increase on the scepter conditions is enough. Also, it shouldn’t affect conditions that the necromancer applies while in death shroud (I’m guessing that’s how it’s going to be though) and it will prevent any awkward balance situation that might arise with dhuumfire or doom.
As for terror, I don’t agree that Terror can be base-lined but it can very well replace Target the Week as a grandmaster minor trait. Too powerful? It’s just a damage trait, lower its number.
Now, the key point here is that this gives you the option of creating a major grandmaster trait by combining Target the Weak with the now-removed Withering Precision to create a trait that can be useful to all builds and synergizes well with itself:
2% critical chance for each unique condition on the enemy. Apply weakness on critical hits 5 seconds, 20 seconds cooldown.

Death Magic only offers one useless grandmaster for non-minion builds:
It takes 25 seconds for it to heal you for ~3k hp if you enter death shroud with full life force and go through all of it without taking any additional damage (who would ever waste their life force for that is another question). It’s understandable for this lonely non-minion grandmaster to be a defensive one in this trait line but at least, it has to be worth taking.

Deathly Invigoration:
This trait should heal when exiting death shroud not when entering. Add around 300 more health gain (a total of ~800 health) and we’re golden!
This adds many layers to this trait.
First, it also heals the necro.
Second, it can be a life saver.
Third, it is possible for the enemy to negate this trait by trying to apply a lethal damage to the necro when in death shroud so that it goes to downed state before this trait triggers.

Dhuumfire:
I’m not sure where people got the idea that Dhuumfire is gonna apply only 1 second of burning, but if that’s the case, it’s not worth a grandmaster slot. I hope they keep it the same as it is, although the move to soul reaping is great.

Wish I knew more about that, Drarnor. Good point, Ronpierce.

Thinking about weapons, I wonder if some of them need to have more progression within their host line. Dagger comes to mind. If the ICD reduction was rolled into a minor, especially for OH weapons, more interesting bonuses could be added at master and GM levels. For example, dagger MH could have a number of cleave bonus. It seems like a waste to favor a weapon in a trait line, then make players have to select the weapon to favor at a cost.

CD reduction really could be integrated into the weapon’s trait line.

Ideally, CD reduction would not be weapon-specific but I can understand forcing builds to have a look to them as a way for opponents to guess at the potential skills available.

^ the damage for dhuumfire was listed at 393 or something, which is about 1 second of burning. But burning is also getting reworked to stack in intensity, but either way it doesn’t seem very strong.

ronpierce.2760:

Hopefully there wont be one at all. Would be sad if you have to use a tree to use a weapon AND use points just to make it worth it. :P Just seems to strange to me…

You have to equip the specialization to use any of the new stuff it provides.

Roe.3679:

^ the damage for dhuumfire was listed at 393 or something, which is about 1 second of burning. But burning is also getting reworked to stack in intensity, but either way it doesn’t seem very strong.

I think that, because you will be able to fill 2 or 3 trait lines, placing Dhuumfire in Soul Reaping is for DS condition damage builds. You will be able to wear Carrion equipment and trait SR without ending up with mismatched stat’s.

I don’t believe I seen a trait that reduces CD on Ds AND DS related skills. I suggest you just merge the two together. Im not sure how they can implement that but it would be a nice add on instead of choosing either or in a traitline. That way I can go with speed of shadows.

-Sidenote – If Signet of the Locust is now a Gm trait (I still disagree with it stealing health) I suggest it should work like a Dolyak signet (Reduced damage above X%) Beacause once again this skill doesn’t scale well and the healing received is horrible.

Edit: If this is now a GM trait, what happens to the 25% additonal run speed?

Burjis.3087:

As for terror, I don’t agree that Terror can be base-lined but it can very well replace Target the Week as a grandmaster minor trait. Too powerful? It’s just a damage trait, lower its number.
Now, the key point here is that this gives you the option of creating a major grandmaster trait by combining Target the Weak with the now-removed Withering Precision to create a trait that can be useful to all builds and synergizes well with itself:
2% critical chance for each unique condition on the enemy. Apply weakness on critical hits 5 seconds, 20 seconds cooldown.

This solution would only help condi necros though. Power builds would be in the exact same situation with the difference of weakness proc. And btw, Withering Precision is currently the worst trait in the entire Curses line, so adding that doesn’t help at all.
Also, I think the new Target the Weak is a good way to compensate for the loss of the trait line stat bonus.
So if not baseline just merge Terror with the 2% crit chance for each condi and make a new proper power trait in grandmaster.

Burjis.3087:

Dhuumfire:
I’m not sure where people got the idea that Dhuumfire is gonna apply only 1 second of burning, but if that’s the case, it’s not worth a grandmaster slot. I hope they keep it the same as it is, although the move to soul reaping is great.

From what I saw it added 1 1\2 seconds of burning and it stacked up to three for the same duration, which I do agree it’s a bit powerful so do expect those numbers to change slightly.

CodeHavoc.7926:

If Signet of the Locust is now a Gm trait …
what happens to the 25% additonal run speed?

The trait is Signet Mastery (cd reduction and might on activation), it just procs the active effect of the signet.

flow.6043:

Burjis.3087:

As for terror, I don’t agree that Terror can be base-lined but it can very well replace Target the Week as a grandmaster minor trait. Too powerful? It’s just a damage trait, lower its number.
Now, the key point here is that this gives you the option of creating a major grandmaster trait by combining Target the Weak with the now-removed Withering Precision to create a trait that can be useful to all builds and synergizes well with itself:
2% critical chance for each unique condition on the enemy. Apply weakness on critical hits 5 seconds, 20 seconds cooldown.

This solution would only help condi necros though. Power builds would be in the exact same situation with the difference of weakness proc. And btw, Withering Precision is currently the worst trait in the entire Curses line, so adding that doesn’t help at all.
Also, I think the new Target the Weak is a good way to compensate for the loss of the trait line stat bonus.
So if not baseline just merge Terror with the 2% crit chance for each condi and make a new proper power trait in grandmaster.

You can’t expect Terror + Target the Weak to be merged into a minor trait slot. Putting Terror into a minor trait line is logical considering how many traits for other professions have become either baseline or minor because they were always used, and this is probably the only way to open up a grandmaster trait. Now, the best scenario would be a boosted Target the Weak to become a major grandmaster. If it’s purely power-based, then it makes it a no brainer for condimancers to not take it and it also feels a bit out of place, but if you make it something that increases critical chance and also add a debilitating condition (slow, weakness, etc), not only it benefits all types of builds, but it stays within the theme of the trait line as well.
This will give you a choice as a conditionmancer between 3 different approaches:
more damage and condition duration with scepter, more sustain, or more critical chance with debilitating conditions.
Of course, it doesn’t have to have that long an ICD but it’s just a matter of numerical balancing.

CodeHavoc.7926:

I don’t believe I seen a trait that reduces CD on Ds AND DS related skills. I suggest you just merge the two together. Im not sure how they can implement that but it would be a nice add on instead of choosing either or in a traitline. That way I can go with speed of shadows.

-Sidenote – If Signet of the Locust is now a Gm trait (I still disagree with it stealing health) I suggest it should work like a Dolyak signet (Reduced damage above X%) Beacause once again this skill doesn’t scale well and the healing received is horrible.

Edit: If this is now a GM trait, what happens to the 25% additonal run speed?

People really need to pay attention, and this is a prime example.

1. Vital Persistance and Path of Midnight were merged. This allows for drastically improved use of Death Shroud as a weapon.

2. Speed of Shadows and Near to Death were merged. Not entirely sure what the reasoning was for merging these two in particular, but it works.

3. Signet Mastery is getting moved tho Grandmaster tier and activates a copy of Signet of the Locust when you are hit below 50% health. You are still completely free to actually equip Signet of the Locust and activate it (or not) at your leisure.

I’d say Signet of the Locust is going to be untouched, but we already saw it’s cooldown getting dropped to 30 seconds base, 24 seconds traited in the stream.

And the healing of Signet of the Locust is very strong.

I just realized none of the new boons or conditions were shown. HoT release may be further out than I thought.

Anchoku.8142:

I just realized none of the new boons or conditions were shown. HoT release may be further out than I thought.

Taunt was shown on a Ranger Beastmastery trait (Pet F2 taunts foes).
Slow was shown on a Guardian trait replacing Glacial Heart.
Resistance was shown on a Thief trait being granted when they strike a foe that has full health.
Quickness (now a boon) was shown in quite a few places.

Burjis.3087:

You can’t expect Terror + Target the Weak to be merged into a minor trait slot.

Why? Barbed Precision was merged with Hemophilia, just one example of many merged minor traits.

Burjis.3087:

Putting Terror into a minor trait line is logical considering how many traits for other professions have become either baseline or minor because they were always used

If you look at the engi’s Explosives line alone:
Forceful Explosions (+10% damage) is going to be a minor trait.
Increased Bomb radius: baseline.
3rd granade: baseline.
Accelerant Packed Turrets: baseline.
Now, compared to that, can you really justify Terror not getting a similar treatment?

Burjis.3087:

If it’s purely power-based, then it makes it a no brainer for condimancers to not take it and it also feels a bit out of place

No, it wouldn’t be out of place, and condi builds already have 2 condi option besides Terror in the gm slot. An offensive and a defensive one. The third must be a power option because power builds will still take Curses over Death Magic and Blood Magic.

Burjis.3087:

This will give you a choice as a conditionmancer between 3 different approaches:
more damage and condition duration with scepter, more sustain, or more critical chance with debilitating conditions.

Like I said, the Target the Weakness change counteracts the loss of precision stat bonus from the traitline itself, just like Soul Reaping will get +15% life force as a minor in addition to the Strength of Undeath damage bonus. So there’s is no reason why Terror as a minor trait couldn’t be combined with a crit chance buff.

Burjis.3087:

Of course, it doesn’t have to have that long an ICD but it’s just a matter of numerical balancing.

The only way Withering Precision would even be considered over the other gm traits is if it had no icd at all. So that’s never going to happen.
Besides, if you want a lot of weakness you can take the new Toxic Landing (Master of Corruption) and CPC for more than 60% uptime of aoe weakness and poison on a capture point.

They also made a comment about changing necro signets. Which hopefully includes SoV. But a reworking of signets could be great news, and could make signet mastery a very interesting trait.

I’ll just plop this here as well I guess with a bit more explanation;
The idea behind these suggestions is to give the Necro more POW! in the Blood magic line and also to give them a possibly potent Vampirism build.

First in the Blood magic line, Vampiric should become the Adept. Full of life and Blood to Power should be removed.

Replace full of Life with;

Satiated Appetite; Gain vigor when health stolen from a target reaches this threshold; 1000 health. 10s of vigor. (10s CD)

And replace Blood to power with;
- Spoil Victor; Steal more health the lower your health is.
Below 90% steal 5% more health
Below 75% steal 10% more health
Below 50% steal 15% more health
Below 25% steal 20% more health

Next we gut Mark of Blood;
- Lifebane Strike ; Life Blast steals health equal to it’s damage. 10s cooldown

Then we gut Quickening thirst;
-Vampiric Swarm; Locust Swarm also steals health and has a larger radius. Radius increase to 180. Gain Locust Swarm at 25% health.

Then we change what Deathly Invigoration does;
- For the first 3 seconds of entering deathshroud, Steal health from those that attack you. Steal up to 25% of your maximum health. 30s cooldown

And I believe just like that we might have created a potent vampirism spec. Or maybe I’m dreaming… I dunno.

Also one argument for terror as minor is parasitic contagion. It has very nice sinergy with it atm and would be shame to remove that. Not only that you get little dmg you also get healed for % of it and not being able to have it is quite a loss of sustain. Specialy if you would have to trade also for condi duration, which you get automaticly atm if traiting for PC.

Or move PC to second tier where we would have to choose between it and path of corruption.

Could just replace Reaper’s Precision with a weaker version of Parasitic Contagion that works in DS,replace it with increased crit damage based on condition on foes 3% per condition creating a power GM, increased crit chance based on condition is good for rabid and barbed precision might be even easier to proc sigil of torment it should stay as GM minor. If Lingering Curse remains a 100% and conditions source are weak due to it, Terror damage should be increased and we’ll still profit from Parasitic Contagion but still having significant choice since you don’t have PoC or WH trait.

Emapudapus.1307:

Or move PC to second tier where …

Sagat.3285:

Could just replace Reaper’s Precision with a weaker version of Parasitic Contagion that works in DS…

Or we could stop bargaining for some lame compromise. Necros are weaker than other classes in so many ways, and whenever there are balance patches they are being discriminated against.
Terror should be base or a minor, any source of healing should go through DS 100%.

Dirame.8521:

Next we gut Mark of Blood;
- Lifebane Strike ; Life Blast steals health equal to of it’s damage. 10s cooldown

So whenever I deal a 10k lifeblast… :o

flow.6043:

Emapudapus.1307:

Or move PC to second tier where …

Sagat.3285:

Could just replace Reaper’s Precision with a weaker version of Parasitic Contagion that works in DS…

Or we could stop bargaining for some lame compromise. Necros are weaker than other classes in so many ways, and whenever there are balance patches they are being discriminated against.
Terror should be base or a minor, any source of healing should go through DS 100%.

It’s not lame I’m just trying created different type of sustain other than DS that can give them ground to work to remove it while improving those new sustains that would be in every line. Someone mentioned healing based on retaliation damage it’s good for Spite that has some healing with it,we have siphon for Blood Magic,somewhat tankiness with Death Magic. While weak those can be improved as DS weakens and is replaced.

Terror vs Lingering is a good match up as long as Lingering doesn’t make natural condition sources weak. I did recommended making it give AoE increase of condition damage you and allies ,the first off it’s kind don’t they dare give to revenant,reduce scepter CD and condition duration increase reduced to 33% for all. Terror damage buffed by at least 10%. Baseline terror doesn’t make sense since 1/5 off distinct builds really pay attention to it and it scales with condition damage, increased crit chance based on number of conditions fits the precision line,sink with the other minors and is not limited to 1/5 of distinct builds.

It is weak due to DS being good thing them but with these roots they can work away from it and eventually give us real defenses,damage won’t be limited and we still remain an attrition class.

Flow, I totally agree with you, but I find this solution highly unlikely, which is why we are trying so hard to work with them to explain how important some of these traits are, and how haphazardly they made decisions which will fundimimentally alter some builds, and pigeon hole others. There is no way they want us to compete with classes like the engie or rev. We are such a suboptimal class in all aspects of this game, and that has been clear to this community for awhile. In addition, while the other classes have continued to evolve, improve, and creep up in power, we have stayed the same. Yes, we have had some minor improvements, but nothing has improved our gameplay in general, and we have always remained at the back of the pack. Ok, yeah, we are needed in the gwen model of zergdom 101, whooopie deedooo.

I am baffled at the buffs the other classes received (especially Engie, Guardian, Mesmer, and even the ranger) as these class have strong roles in all game play, and are wanted on teams in pvp and pve (albeit maybe not so much on rangers). Engie’s received a massive buff on some of their damage output, while we got a net loss (imo) on our damage output, especially on condi builds. How can they justify reworking all these classes without even giving the neccomancer that leaves the community with a feeling that we are improving? I know some feel we got buffed, but I am having a hard time seeing the buffs through all the tradeoffs we are having to take, that in general it seems a net loss, or a 0 sum game. Now we have to choose between signature, needed traits, and lines that don’t fully benefit a build, because our lines are independently for one type of build. There is hardly any synergy with these traits.

Then there is the falacy that the devs keep touting regarding what defines the slight variation in a terrormancer/condi mancer. The difference is the presence of the Master of Terror trait, not Terror itself. I almost fell out of my chain when i heardthis. It was like they were saying, oh terror builds only build for terror, whereas condi builds don’t build for terror? In what world do they live in? Every condi build i have ever played depended on terror because our condi stacking is slow, dependent on slow casting (sometimes PRE AND POST) effects, telegraphed skills, and low stacks, which when coupled with the insane condi clears in this game (group and individual) that we cannot even maintain conditions on enemies and thus need all of our conditions to play. They simply do not see this, and worry we may be too powerful if we have long fears. I ask myself, so what? Fear can be stun broken, cleared, and blocked, thus should be powerful when its landed. Rarely do my fears go the duration, because they are to easily cleansed. People should think twice about how to engage a necro, but now, its just he dodged twice, burn him down.

I am thankful that The Gates Assassin is taking the time to communicate with the devs, but I am dissappointed that he thinks we don’t deserve terror in our condi builds at the same time as a duration trait (lingering curses), because he thinks it will be too powerful? WHAT ON THE NECRO is too powerful? Dhuumfire? no, it is 1 stack of burning that is 66% less damaging, and requires condi builds (the only build that will use this skill) to stay in DS 3 times as long just to get the damage to where it is at now with one life blast). Do you have any idea how hard it is to build LF on a condi necro? 3 life blasts in DS without getting ping ponged, and slammed around, or having your LB dodged, is terrible. How is that a grandmaster. Furthermore, Fear, while getting nerfed damage wise, has gone from an adept trait, to a master trait, and now sits at a grandmaster trait? How is this logical or even warranted?

The devs are so biased against the necro and i keep hearing BS like two health pools, blah blah blah, want to be hit, blah, blah blah, etc. I mean, on a necro, after your two dodges, you are just eating damage, and we will never improve unless this is addressed. I am so tired of being limited because the devs have this preconceived, and unworkable model that we are the attrition class that has no mobility, blocks, evades, access to boons, etc, and instead are a slow moving damage eating blob. We are clunky, our spells are slow to cast, and difficult to land, and in the end dont even freaking pay off that much as our damage is frankly not awesome relative to any other class. We provide no boons, no support buffs, no help to teammates, and are generally not needed. Team compositions that have consistently won any tournaments do not have a necro, and there might be a good reason for that.

When will the necros get their time in the sun? Why not alter their meta a bit and flush some of the fixed team composition that has been pretty consistent throughout GW2s evolution.

I think Lily’s comment about two dps traits in Curses GM is valid and Terror does not seem strong enough to hold a GM spot. Weakening Shroud is stronger.

Curses GM should have a utility trait potentially for group support like adding a group condition transfer or Defiance reducer.

Another thing about the curses grandmasters. Its a condi and crit line. But all 3 grandmasters are flat condi traits. They arent related to crit chance at all. We could simply have some kind of on crit trait which benefits both condi and power. For example might on crit (forceful greatsword style trait but not tied to a specific weapon).

spoj.9672:

Another thing about the curses grandmasters. Its a condi and crit line. But all 3 grandmasters are flat condi traits. They arent related to crit chance at all. We could simply have some kind of on crit trait which benefits both condi and powers. For example might on crit (forceful greatsword style trait but not tied to a specific weapon).

• coughwitheringprecisionreworkcough *

Sorry, got something in my throat.

Dirame.8521:

I’ll just plop this here as well I guess with a bit more explanation;
The idea behind these suggestions is to give the Necro more POW! in the Blood magic line and also to give them a possibly potent Vampirism build.

First in the Blood magic line, Vampiric should become the Adept. Full of life and Blood to Power should be removed.

Replace full of Life with;

Satiated Appetite; Gain vigor when health stolen from a target reaches this threshold; 1000 health. 10s of vigor. (10s CD)

And replace Blood to power with;
- Spoil Victor; Steal more health the lower your health is.
Below 90% steal 5% more health
Below 75% steal 10% more health
Below 50% steal 15% more health
Below 25% steal 20% more health

Next we gut Mark of Blood;
- Lifebane Strike ; Life Blast steals health equal to it’s damage. 10s cooldown

Then we gut Quickening thirst;
-Vampiric Swarm; Locust Swarm also steals health and has a larger radius. Radius increase to 180. Gain Locust Swarm at 25% health.

Then we change what Deathly Invigoration does;
- For the first 3 seconds of entering deathshroud, Steal health from those that attack you. Steal up to 25% of your maximum health. 30s cooldown

And I believe just like that we might have created a potent vampirism spec. Or maybe I’m dreaming… I dunno.

No, that was pretty spot on and interesting to those who want to make a siphoning healing build

Sagat.3285:

Terror vs Lingering is a good match up

No.

Sagat.3285:

1/5 of distinct builds

I don’t know what you mean by that.

Gryph.8237:

terrormancer/condi mancer. The difference is the presence of the Master of Terror trait, not Terror itself.

It really isn’t though.
Condi- and Terrormancer are synonymous terms. Condition builds always have Terror, and that makes them “Terrormancers”, that’s all there is to it. The amount of sources of fear or by how much you extend your fear duration is completely irrelevant.

spoj.9672:

Another thing about the curses grandmasters. Its a condi and crit line. But all 3 grandmasters are flat condi traits. They arent related to crit chance at all. We could simply have some kind of on crit trait which benefits both condi and powers. For example might on crit (forceful greatsword style trait but not tied to a specific weapon).

Please and thank you.

I am trying to think of Curses as more of a corruption line than straight condition damage like it is now. It is still hard for me to separate the current trait stat’s from the themes associated in the proposed version.

Assuming condition damage and precision are part of the Curses line keeps tripping me up.

I wouldn’t care as much about Curses having a power line, but the minor traits are good for power builds and Banshee’s Wail shouldn’t get left in a line where no one will take it because of the lack of a power GM trait. Banshee’s Wail is really good and it’s marooned in Curses as of now.