Guild Wars 2

Hello necros. I’ve never played a necro, but I’m very tempted to create a necro alt right now. I play a bunker engineer, I am able to hold off multiple opponents, even 3 simultaneously, wether they are condition damage oriented or not, all of this while holding a point, of course.

But when one of you guys come contesting my points I just melt. Pretty literally. Even if it’s just me vs one of you. You are able to kill me within 3 seconds from 18k hp to 0. I’ve got no stability, so your fears+terror surely hit like a truck, and I’ve got no condition removal aside from 2 condis removed every 20 seconds (roughly) and some light field projectile combos but this has never been a problem against any other condition oriented class I’ve ever fought against (and I’ve fought many) since I have the almighty Automated Response at my disposal and tons of way to heal myself back.

Question is: how do you melt me? Surely not corrupted boons, I’ve always have very very few boons (swiftness up 100%, vigor up 66%, regen up 50%, retaliation up 33%, stop) on me. And you are not even glass cannons, because my bunker build, like every bunker build, can kill glass cannons. This really bothers me, because to effectively play a bunker engineer you have to be really skilled (yes, I’m not modest, and yes, I do think some classes require skills in order to be effectively played) and all you have to do is just press like 2-3 buttons? That’s all the time you need to melt me.

I need your help, or I’ll just create a necro by myself to check if what I’ve said is true or not.

If you have no access to stability what about stun breaks?
Fear also counts as one, so stun breaking will break the combo and Necros usually chain cast all their fears as fast as possible. Breaking a long fear chain will save you from a good 5k damage.

Having no active condition cleanses is what will really be your biggest issue, since most Necros will front-load their high cd skills to kill you. Necros have the worst sustain in the game – apart from MM builds with siphon- so the only choice is to kill you before you can wear us down and makes us play an all-in for every fight.

If you can get some sort of full cleanse for the first brunt of attacks you can usually increase the fight’s duration by a lot.

The best way to kill a Necro is to not avoid him, just throw everything you can, fight aggression with aggression. Remember that Necros have 0 access to stability in condition and MM builds and barely any stun breaks.

First of all, necromancer is apparently intended to be the best condition class in the game. The standard 30/20/0/0/20 condition necromancer has two condition transfers (Deathly Swarm and Putrid Mark) and Consume Conditions heal which removes all conditions. In any condition spec on engi, necros will generally have a natural advantage.

Second of all, many necros are still using signet of spite which applies almost every condition in the game for anywhere from 7-14 seconds. Except for burning/confusion I believe.

Here are the things you can do against a condi necro which will improve your chances of winning by a lot:

1. Dodge Deathly Swarm, which is the dagger offhand condition transfer. It’s slow and has a unique animation.

2. Note whether or not the necro is running Signet of Spite, and make sure to dodge this because if you get spited as an engineer, you will lose.

3. Predict when the necromancer is going to use Putrid Mark transfer. Generally if a necro is loaded up with condis and is wielding staff, the first thing he’s going to try and do is use Putrid Mark on you.

4. Interrupt his heal. I can’t stress this enough. Most necros run around feeling invincible to conditions because of their heal and their transfers. Its totally possible to completely wreck a necro if you interrupt Consume Conditions. Consume Conditions is another very slow (1 1/4 secs) cast time.

If you are a bunker build and die in 3 seconds, your build sucks. It is that simple.

Arachnid.4062:

signet of spite which applies almost every condition in the game.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Spite
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Condition

Six out of twelve… close enough :P

Signet of Spite hardly does any damage by itself, it’s great for cover against classes with bad cleansing though…

@Frenk: I believe you’ll get better help if you post this in the engi subforum. Or ask a necro in game to practice 1v1 with you.

But by the way you descibe your usual encounters and fighting necros, it sounds like your build is being countered…

I can tell you that the only time I have struggled when facing an engi was my friend who was baiting putrid mark casts against me. You have to wait until after the necro has blown putrid mark [ideally dodge it] before going mad with the bomb kit. Spamming bombs = insta-gib on most classes, but for necro just means bounce everything back onto engi and gg.

So yeah, bait putrid mark and absolutely must dodge dagger 4 transfer. The necro will have more deadly condition burst, but I find engi to be better in more drawn out fights, especially using pistol with confusion etc. Just slow it down and focus on avoiding condition transfers, don’t try to condi-bomb the necro, gl

First off, lets be honest, you are exageratting about the three second timer, because that is literally the amount of time it takes to dodge twice. Meaning, no one should ever die in sub 3 seconds; including naked level 1s.

However, the question has basically been answered in your own post. You have no stability, you have no active condition cleanses, and you’re facing the single strongest condition class in the game. And since you are a bunker without the main defensive mechanics that will help against Necros, you don’t even have the Warrior-effect going on where you just murder us in a few seconds of effective invulnerability.

If you really are able to hold point very well against any combination of classes that don’t involve Necros, then your build is probably just fine, and you’ve just found your one natural counter (every build is going to have a counter). I’d suggest you team up with anti-Necro classes (thief/warrior, mainly warrior), and avoid the Necro by either camping your home node (Necros are easily punished for overextending that far) or using your mobility to avoid them (always be at the fight they aren’t).

Short answer is: your build is getting countered.

Adding to what Bhawb said, also try to CC the crap out of the Necro. Condition Necros (at least the cheesiest builds) are basically guaranteed to have two stunbreaks at most, and both are on long cooldowns, so if you have the Necro blow them quickly, he or she can be pin-ponged around without trouble.

Bhawb.7408:

First off, lets be honest, you are exageratting about the three second timer, because that is literally the amount of time it takes to dodge twice. Meaning, no one should ever die in sub 3 seconds; including naked level 1s.

Backstab thief with basilisk venom can kill you in two.
As to reply: basically what was said before, either you are not very good, or your build is being countered. Kind of blunt, but it’s just the truth.

its very funny though. in wvw even dueling, MM necro is just a joke lol

but then the down scale of dmg in spvp just make them looking like a god haha.

Thanks to you all guys, you have been very helpful. I have one stunbreak every 37 seconds, which also triggers my regen. I am almost certainly sure I’m not bad (huh huh) and I’m also almost quite as sure that my build is incredibily effective (it caused lots of ragequits and drama both in game and on the forums).

Problem is, without access to stability the necro just has to wait for the wall which causes fear to be ready, then spam it on me one time and then he can fear-lock me. Even if I use a stunbreak, he can fear me again, and I also have to stay like 1 meter away from that wall (which lasts like 3 seconds, I think?) if I want to keep the point contested. I have plenty of blocks, but those don’t work against the wall and are not useful at all, once “feared”. Funny thing is that while under CC I have 20% damage reduction, and that helps me a lot for surviving against CC builds (3300 amor + 20% damage reduction + protection if the enemy hits me critically = hammer warrior neutralized). But if you have both CC and conditions, like I said, I simply melt. While CC’ed, I cannot rely on my multiple methods of healing me back (four differents blasts, 2 waterfields, healing bombs, regen, elixir gun light field, regenerating health while holding a kit, elite).

However you all agree that in order to melt me so fastly (yes, I was hyperbolizing, but you still are able to kill me within 3-10 seconds) you must “throw at me everything”. SO I’m wondering, what’s the usual skill order when you throw everything at me? What should I doge? What should I block? What animations are the most predictable? Should I play very aggressively and CC-lock him (Pull, Launch x2)?

Thanks again.

1. How do you counter a necro? Answer: CC, especially immobilize because they necromancer condition removals are at long cooldown and serve as other functions.

I always get owned by the engineer elite crate drop.

2. How do Necromancers Melt me? Answer: you mentioned corrupt boon. Even though it is not fearing you, it is putting cripple, confusion, poison and bleed on you. The confusion stacks especially melt engineers.

Also, as an engineer, be aware that necromancer can throw 3 of your condition stacks back at you with dagger 5 and staff 4. This is also helping melt you really fast.

To counter Necromancer’s in the future:

1. Go 2v1. The necromancer can’t win if either of you has CC and can’t escape. He can hold out for some time but can’t really recover.

2. Also he doesn’t go out of combat until all of his minions and conditions are out of combat, so you can exit the fight, reset, and come back while he is on long cool downs

3. Lead off the fight with immobilize. That way the necromancer is either a sitting duck or has to blow one of his condition transfer nukes or his heal. Any of these is a win for you. I find myself ignoring the engineer and focusing down his net turret, because that is how threatening the thing is to me.

4. The necromancer has up to 4 long cooldown condition bombs. Corrupt boon, signet of spite, staff 4 and dagger 4. Staff 4 and dagger 4 only get used when he is full of conditions, corrupt boon only hits when you are full of boons, and signet of spite has a lot of scary looking conditions, but not a lot of damaging conditions (just poison and 2 bleeds). You can predict when the necromancer may use these skills, so look for animations and dodge. Dagger 4 is real easy to dodge, staff 4 isn’t. And don’t panic when you get hit by signet of spite.

5. Use your grenades To AoE down minions before he gets to close.

6. If you are up against a power necromancer, he needs to cripple you and then drop a well on you. Reset the fight if you have to, he has no no stain or escapes but he does have long oil down high damage nukes.

7. Figure out how to get a stun break in your build for fear.

Frenk.5917:

Thanks to you all guys, you have been very helpful. I have one stunbreak every 37 seconds, which also triggers my regen. I am almost certainly sure I’m not bad (huh huh) and I’m also almost quite as sure that my build is incredibily effective (it caused lots of ragequits and drama both in game and on the forums).

Problem is, without access to stability the necro just has to wait for the wall which causes fear to be ready, then spam it on me one time and then he can fear-lock me. Even if I use a stunbreak, he can fear me again, and I also have to stay like 1 meter away from that wall (which lasts like 3 seconds, I think?) if I want to keep the point contested. I have plenty of blocks, but those don’t work against the wall and are not useful at all, once “feared”. Funny thing is that while under CC I have 20% damage reduction, and that helps me a lot for surviving against CC builds (3300 amor + 20% damage reduction + protection if the enemy hits me critically = hammer warrior neutralized). But if you have both CC and conditions, like I said, I simply melt. While CC’ed, I cannot rely on my multiple methods of healing me back (four differents blasts, 2 waterfields, healing bombs, regen, elixir gun light field, regenerating health while holding a kit, elite).

However you all agree that in order to melt me so fastly (yes, I was hyperbolizing, but you still are able to kill me within 3-10 seconds) you must “throw at me everything”. SO I’m wondering, what’s the usual skill order when you throw everything at me? What should I doge? What should I block? What animations are the most predictable? Should I play very aggressively and CC-lock him (Pull, Launch x2)?

Thanks again.

The thing is, Stability may be not always a best idea vs. Necromancers. When you won’t spot it in usual cookie-cutter, cheesy Conditionmancer builds ( because they tend to run Signet of Spite, which is a terrifying OP combination IMO), more experienced Necros may run Corrupt Boon. As you’ve described, you usually have 4 boons up, with Stability it’s 5, ideal amount for quick Corrupt Boon. Turning your Stability into another Fear is kind of strong counter. I’d just suggest taking more stunbreaks if you feel that 1 is not enough for Necromancer. I think 1 is perfectly enough to avoid usual condibomb into terror play.
My advice would be to use #5 on your Elixir Gun as often as possible, try to avoid as much conditions as you can with dodging. Don’t be afraid of using Line of Sight! Remember, if Necro, after stacking some amount on conditions (especially at the start of every fight! You have 99% chances for this scenario) quickly hops into Death Shroud, use your Shield #5, Toolkit #4 or dodge twice. He simply tries to burst you down with everything he has. Some of those fotm necro players don’t even know what to do if their burst gets soaked or countered. As said, remove conditions, watch out for Signet of Spite+condibomb combo and use CC