I love my vampiric Minion build, I commend you for this post.
I’d also like to see some sort of change when we revive someone, our minions cut the rez strength in half if they are in combat. Also, I am forever slowed if one darts away and is hit by a glancing blow from some random enemy.
Minion <3 Anet
I think rezzing in combat in general needs a rework, takes way too long. Even the longest resurrect skill in GW1 (the pet rez skill, symbiosis, which took 6 seconds and was arguably the single worst skill in the game to this day) wasn’t as slow as our current in-combat rezzes. I know they still need to be slowed down during combat, but I think it went way overboard. And yeah things like you just mentioned with a single minion getting agro, or even some small splash damage hitting you screws the whole thing up.
Actually good teams will get rezzes off nearly instantly unless you get some poison and massive cleave on the downed body. They really can’t speed that time up or you would need to down at least 2-3 people before ever being able to get someone killed.
Thank you. I hope something comes around. Even fully bunker built we die if the minions die, they’re easily cleaved, we have to soak CCs and hope we don’t die, we don’t get much LF because of how many minions we have to pack, our “defense” death shroud eats Blood minion heals, and siphons, and to make matters worse our pets do too much damage so people just play it like a phantasm Mesmer and run around in circles like chickens with their heads chopped off.
We really need defenses, we really need our heals to be reliable and mesh with our “defenses”, we need more reliable/useful pets that have survivability, and we need our minions to be a little less of our dps (20% less damage? I’d be fine with that, but leave putrid explosions damage or it’ll be useless for non MM.) and let us handle that.
Until then we just can’t be what we need to.
High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
So yeah, minion are getting to a pretty good place, but they still rely on a lot of personal skill to pull it off compared to other “easier” builds like wells and such.
I didn’t mean that, all minions die on every boss always, and can never be used…
I still don’t see ‘small’ damage from your wormy and a brake stun being more useful to the group on average than 5sec converting condi to boons on ally + combo field + brake stun.
It’s not how ‘easy’ the spec is to use, it’s how helpful it is to the group.
We really hope to see what the developers think about this
I’m a royal MM since gw1 ( I belive that necro is the best class and MM is the best build ).
I agree with every thing you said.
All 80es > MM necro is my best ,cleric
guard ,nades eng ,Trap thief \ranger ,signet\shout warrior, zerk mes\ele & shiro rev.
You mention moa… yet don’t mention OUR own elite skills that destroy minions? What?
Completely forgot about water. No elite that’s usable in water if you run minions. What other class out there gets penalized for using the only elite they have.
What about the fact that most boss aoe tears up minions in 1-2 hits?
Your entire post is about cast times and traits and trying to change anet mentality of disposable utilities instead pushing for more sustained minions.
Death nova constitutes a MASSIVE damage boost. Also ontop of providing single source of aoe it also adds survivability. The amount of weakness that mm can put out is huge. What you propose destroys both. Without mitigation from weakness you will take even more damage ontop of not being able to remove conditions. Taking condition removal is like sentencing yourself to getting either wrecked yourself or your minions dropping dead 3 times faster then before.
Those are nice sentiments but they don’t look at major problems with minions. Anet has no idea… what they want with minions or even necros. They shown utter lack of interest in this class and minions got the biggest “we don’t care” stick.
And asking for nerfs… what… seriously? You run a spec that has not a single self damage increasing trait and you ask for your minion damage to be nerfed?…. ~_~
I’m not sure if I want to compliment you on trying or smack you as a trolling thief.
You mention moa… yet don’t mention OUR own elite skills that destroy minions? What?
Completely forgot about water. No elite that’s usable in water if you run minions. What other class out there gets penalized for using the only elite they have.
What about the fact that most boss aoe tears up minions in 1-2 hits?
Your entire post is about cast times and traits and trying to change anet mentality of disposable utilities instead pushing for more sustained minions.
Death nova constitutes a MASSIVE damage boost. Also ontop of providing single source of aoe it also adds survivability. The amount of weakness that mm can put out is huge. What you propose destroys both. Without mitigation from weakness you will take even more damage ontop of not being able to remove conditions. Taking condition removal is like sentencing yourself to getting either wrecked yourself or your minions dropping dead 3 times faster then before.
Those are nice sentiments but they don’t look at major problems with minions. Anet has no idea… what they want with minions or even necros. They shown utter lack of interest in this class and minions got the biggest “we don’t care” stick.
And asking for nerfs… what… seriously? You run a spec that has not a single self damage increasing trait and you ask for your minion damage to be nerfed?…. ~_~
I’m not sure if I want to compliment you on trying or smack you as a trolling thief.
Before you rant, how about you fight me, you’ll see why its a bit much… Minions have 1 good trait for damage if they die, ALL of the rest, require them to be alive. They do need to stay alive. And excuse me for not talking about water (I’m looking at pvp, don’t really care about floating around in the ocean so much) and almost every MM runs Flesh Golem, except in water. Sorry that from a sPvP standpoint, it wasn’t my highlights. That said, yes minion damage is VERY powerful when you can have 27.8k HP 3.2k Attack, 2.8k Armor and have 5-6 minions out that are traited to deal 30% more damage… Don’t come in here insulting me before you have an idea about what you’re talking about.
High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
I have to agree with ronpierce here. But to specify, I don’t think minion damage right now is too much of a problem because they are easy to kill. However, if his changes were to be implemented to make them much more difficult to kill, then damage needs to be toned down.
What I would love to see is a combination of what has been suggested in this thread about survivable minions, and what we have now. I think both should be viable playstyles, and I’d like to see them both implemented. Basically, I’d like to see minions that can be killed, but have more strength, and then minions that are very survivable, but don’t have that same strength.
The thing is, if you like them to die, its pretty easy, don’t take 50% increased HP. If they put more of the (asked for) toughness attached to this trait, you’d have 100% choice over tanky or not tanky minions. Problem solved for everyone, really.
High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
Not necessarily. There is a balance between wanting them to die, and maximizing their utility before they die. Every minion besides bone minions are absolutely useless unless they are up for a while. But removing their damage to make them live longer (which has to be done, to make them live longer), makes them useless to anyone not running the traits specifically designed around it. It is two completely different, and should be viable, ways to look at minions. But right now one (medium survivability, high damage, high utility) is vastly favored.
Well, I understand that, I was actually being a bit exaggerative, because they were making it sound like MM’s are just dying for their minions to die. But on a more realistic note; They have the ability to make them as sustainable as they need to be for those who chose that play style and make them more tanky for those who chose the other via a single trait. For instance if all minions had 20% more HP, and the 3 non sacrificed minions had a tad better toughness, then, the trait gave an additional 30% HP (yes, I know it’d be a slight increase from now) and maybe some condi removal over time so they don’t die to aoe condies so frequently, they could strike a balance so that IF you wanted sacrificable minions or to use minions without traits, you could, but if you were making a build that relied on up-time, at the expense of points, you also could.
High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
after trying lots of builds , i agree , MM builds need a buff , as far as pve view , maybe give all pet types the ever so common in mmo feature of “aoe avoidance” (and i mean this for ranger pets as well , and maybe engineer turrets?) since how many bosses have heavy aoe? it makes all of these not as desireable since they lose their function when the boss makes that attack. now when you look at how they performed in GW1 you could actually summon an army (like a certain part of some main story missions will claim “kill the necromancer before they summon their army”) , and now were down to an extreme limited amount……i personally weep for MM as it is now…..would like to see some buffs to it……
And also besides the aoe avoidance thing for pve (significant aoe dmg reduction) , id like to see the one Death Magic trait that summons the jagged horror revamped , let it summon the horror with no CD / Limit (example , you kill one target , you get first horror , kill another target almost immediately , you now have 2 jagged horrors , and i make this suggestion since they still have the same feature that GW1 minions have with health degen on them , so with how weak they are , i feel this would be justified since the current state of the rest of our minions).
And of course more touch up on pet / minion ai since its still feels a little whonky.
I have to agree with ronpierce here. But to specify, I don’t think minion damage right now is too much of a problem because they are easy to kill. However, if his changes were to be implemented to make them much more difficult to kill, then damage needs to be toned down.
What I would love to see is a combination of what has been suggested in this thread about survivable minions, and what we have now. I think both should be viable playstyles, and I’d like to see them both implemented. Basically, I’d like to see minions that can be killed, but have more strength, and then minions that are very survivable, but don’t have that same strength.
Hi bro , as for Tank / DPS minions , I would suggest that tank are melee and the others are ranged so they still alive as much as possible.
All 80es > MM necro is my best ,cleric
guard ,nades eng ,Trap thief \ranger ,signet\shout warrior, zerk mes\ele & shiro rev.
Honestly I’d like if they just fixed up the minions that we have now so they properly filled their roles as the way minions are set up right now, added HP bars so the skill cap is raised on minions like Bone Minions and Blood Fiend, and then added in one or two “sustain” minions that had very high survivability, but low damage, for people like Sikari who like to really play sustained minions (which should be viable imo, but our current minions don’t really fit it).
I’d agree except only if it it allows it to transition from land to water fluidly.
Agreed, now if there was a minor relatively fast animation where fleshie shifted his fleshy parts around (transformers style a bit I guess) fins all of a sudden becomes chicken legs and teeth moves to the claw/arms etc, that certainly wouldn’t hurt.
I do agree with your suggestion of making the Shadow fiend more tanky as well, so increase HP and toughness. I would personally want to see it a bit larger as well.
I’d also change the active, rather then a blind every 20 seconds I’d rather see it as a damage mitigator. So perhaps something like ‘Shrouded by shadows’ (I’m crap at making up names) absorbs all damage inflicted on master for X seconds. That would give it much more use and utility.
