Guild Wars 2

Taken From Angry Joes interview. Colin said the following:

“We’re also going back and looking at each profession and making adjustments to them, changing skills, rebalancing them.”

5 bucks say they kitten it up. Again.

Do you agree/disagree? What changes would you like to see to Necromancer (Skills/Traits, Cattimes/Aftercast-delay/Bugfixes/Cooldowns…) ?

The perfect opportunity to give us the blast finishers weve been asking for. But they probably wont do that.

Balance won’t do anything to us so who cares. No amount of balancing old skills will add utility to our profession, or make up for our lack of weapons, or make our current weapons have better skill sets.

They need to go back and do at least a small rework of the base profession for it to mean anything, and so far they haven’t said they will do that. I’m not asking for them to change LF or DS or anything crazy, but base Necromancer just has so many issues that no amount of specialization band-aiding will cover it up.

Edit: I mean yeah balance is nice. But honestly they can’t screw us up much more, we’re only meaningfully top tier in WvW zergs at the moment, so chances are pretty good that even if they do screw up they’ll accidentally buff us.

Bhawb.7408:

Balance won’t do anything to us so who cares. No amount of balancing old skills will add utility to our profession, or make up for our lack of weapons, or make our current weapons have better skill sets.

They need to go back and do at least a small rework of the base profession for it to mean anything, and so far they haven’t said they will do that. I’m not asking for them to change LF or DS or anything crazy, but base Necromancer just has so many issues that no amount of specialization band-aiding will cover it up.

Actually, giving us a trait to turn well of blood and well of power into slightly weaker versions but with an extremely increased AE range and staying around longer would already be a good start. Or change one of the useless Grandmaster traits to turn Signet of Spite’s passive into a NONSTACKING aura for a 180 (or maybe 150 for balancing) power boost to all allies in a radius of X. But yeah, i agree… Although it depends what they mean with “changing skills”. “Changing skills” could also lead to an overhaul that is more than just adjusting numbers, but as i wrote in the first post, 5 bucks say they are going to kitten it up.

That means they will change some skill facts haha.

I can see it now:

Flesh of the master – changed tooltip to reflect that all minions die when you go into downed state.

Bhawb.7408:

Balance won’t do anything to us so who cares. No amount of balancing old skills will add utility to our profession, or make up for our lack of weapons, or make our current weapons have better skill sets.

They need to go back and do at least a small rework of the base profession for it to mean anything, and so far they haven’t said they will do that. I’m not asking for them to change LF or DS or anything crazy, but base Necromancer just has so many issues that no amount of specialization band-aiding will cover it up.

Edit: I mean yeah balance is nice. But honestly they can’t screw us up much more, we’re only meaningfully top tier in WvW zergs at the moment, so chances are pretty good that even if they do screw up they’ll accidentally buff us.

Even if they buff us they will decide that having a necro in dungeon teams or in the best pvp comps = overpowered. Despite the fact that it is ok for engineers, warriors, thieves, guardians and elementalists to be in the best pvp team comps for years on end.

Basically necro is judged by low standards. If it is “decent” it is nerfed. Other classes can be “good” and get buffed not nerfed because the historical expectation is for them to be “great”.

Also a lot of necros are self hating. We QQ when we have strong stuff and say “this is too good”. Because when we get good stuff it is unusual to us. Dhuumfire was an example in pvp. It wasn’t too good. So it made 1 necromancer in the best set ups (but you didn’t need one) and all necros (inc me) cried it was Op and asked for nerfs.

Ele, engi, warrior and thief players do not do this. When they get broken stuff/when they keep their broken stuff they dont think anything of it. There is a thief in the best team set up for pvp for 3 years in a row. Same for much of the time with ele (sometimes even 2 is best) and engineer and warrior for the last 18 months.

We deserve a run as the best class in the game for about 2 years right now.

Yknow what I’m currently really laughing at? Colin’s comment about “really great skills tied to the necro greatsword”. Yeah, sure, and Necros are great for PvE-Speedruns atm.

For anyone wondering, its in AJ’s video at around 15:25. “Incredible skills”, yeah sure. For all specs but Necros if the current trend continues… Ok I’m a bit unfair, we have SOME skills that are pretty awesome. But then again, they usually have a 35+ second CD.

Shiki.7148:

Yknow what I’m currently really laughing at? Colin’s comment about “really great skills tied to the necro greatsword”. Yeah, sure, and Necros are great for PvE-Speedruns atm.

To be fair, the skills could be really strong. We don’t have a clue what they are yet, so we really can’t comment on them.

The question is if those skills, which could be fantastic, do anything that the profession doesn’t already have some ability to do.

For example, say this was the Greatsword 5 skill:

Clausterphobia
Call forth a ring of spectral energy around you that contracts. Foes that touch the ring are teleported to your location.
Initial radius: 480
Minimum radius: 120
Duration: 5 seconds
Combo field: ethereal

Such a skill is possible with the new tech they’re implementing, and it could work to hold enemies that normally try to scatter in place for AoE.

On the other hand, we could get something like:
Reap Boons
Damage and steal one boon from each enemy hit

Which is a decent skill, but it doesn’t accomplish anything that Necros don’t already do.

In fairness. If the specialisation turns out to be good. We will probably still lack finishers. Because all our current weapons currently lack finishers. So its a necessary addition that I hope they will address. But i dont have much expectations for it.

Shiki.7148:

Actually, giving us a trait to turn well of blood and well of power into slightly weaker versions but with an extremely increased AE range and staying around longer would already be a good start.

Nice changes, but meaningless to PvE and builds that don’t already take (or are close to taking) those abilities. It doesn’t change that those are best suited to tanky/support builds, but we don’t have good tanky/support weapons (greatsword has the possibility to change this). As long as we don’t have builds to use some of our really nice skills/traits, they will look like bad options.

Shiki.7148:

Or change one of the useless Grandmaster traits to turn Signet of Spite’s passive into a NONSTACKING aura for a 180 (or maybe 150 for balancing) power boost to all allies in a radius of X.

Another nice change, but even if it was 150 power AoE as a Master trait (regardless of SoS, Spotter doesn’t force you to have a skill equipped) it still wouldn’t be a big deal. Which is the problem, its not like Necromancer is just one or two small changes off from being good, we’re 1 or 2 brand new mechanics from being good. They do have the chance to change that, but I agree with you that they will probably screw it up.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Basically necro is judged by low standards. If it is “decent” it is nerfed. Other classes can be “good” and get buffed not nerfed because the historical expectation is for them to be “great”.

Dhuumfire was massively OP. If anyone else was at that level they would have been nerfed too.

But more to the point: my issue isn’t that they might screw up new things, its that regardless of what they add we’ll still have issues. They can add all the fancy weapons they want, but Death Shroud will still cancel out a ton of our defensive mechanics. They need to start addressing those core issues that plague us, instead of saying “hey we know your base profession is still ridiculously broken, but here is a shiny new toy!”

Bhawb.7408:

Shiki.7148:

Actually, giving us a trait to turn well of blood and well of power into slightly weaker versions but with an extremely increased AE range and staying around longer would already be a good start.

Nice changes, but meaningless to PvE and builds that don’t already take (or are close to taking) those abilities. It doesn’t change that those are best suited to tanky/support builds, but we don’t have good tanky/support weapons (greatsword has the possibility to change this). As long as we don’t have builds to use some of our really nice skills/traits, they will look like bad options.

Shiki.7148:

Or change one of the useless Grandmaster traits to turn Signet of Spite’s passive into a NONSTACKING aura for a 180 (or maybe 150 for balancing) power boost to all allies in a radius of X.

Another nice change, but even if it was 150 power AoE as a Master trait (regardless of SoS, Spotter doesn’t force you to have a skill equipped) it still wouldn’t be a big deal. Which is the problem, its not like Necromancer is just one or two small changes off from being good, we’re 1 or 2 brand new mechanics from being good. They do have the chance to change that, but I agree with you that they will probably screw it up.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Basically necro is judged by low standards. If it is “decent” it is nerfed. Other classes can be “good” and get buffed not nerfed because the historical expectation is for them to be “great”.

Dhuumfire was massively OP. If anyone else was at that level they would have been nerfed too.

But more to the point: my issue isn’t that they might screw up new things, its that regardless of what they add we’ll still have issues. They can add all the fancy weapons they want, but Death Shroud will still cancel out a ton of our defensive mechanics. They need to start addressing those core issues that plague us, instead of saying “hey we know your base profession is still ridiculously broken, but here is a shiny new toy!”

At least Necros had 0 problems vs the current “only 2 legendary and three traitlines” revenant in PvP. 2 Revs vs. 1 Necro, guess who won? I know all the little quirks of the Revenant weren’t and aren’T known to the players at the demo preview, but getting 1 v 2’d by a relatively bad Necro should say something. Sadly they will propably get that “i stealth, teleport and attack multiple times ahahaha” skill from the trailer on another legend.. t.t

And as for your response to my ideas, i know we would need a lot more than that, but frankly, it would be a start. Those were just examples of how they COULD buff Necro-skills, giving it utility, anyway. I mean damage isn’t bad, powernecros run signet of spite anyway, and zerker warris would love some more power.

Sadly,we will propably just get some number-changes though, leaving us with the same bad traits as before, only they now give 1 second more of their badness. Or something of the sort. I really want hexes… reducing the primary stat/all stats to 0? Fabulous

Bhawb I completely agree with all that you said above. We need more def mechs as our damage is ok. The only problem is that our defense is so bad that we cannot sustain damage.

At this moment all i want is a dev in charge of the necro tell me how he see the necro, if a dev tell me ‘’The necro is perfectly fine like it is at the moment.’’ it mean i don’t know how to play it as intended. If so…. i would like to see a dev play in dungeons, pve ingeneral, pvp and wvw, i’ll probably learn something. Because i consider myself good and sometime ’’good’’ is’nt enough.

Won’t happen. This class has been forgotten or at best, stuck in a box and stored far from anet’a hqs

Necromancer is fine~

https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/158908/ColinAlchemy.jpg

“Practitioners of the dark arts, necromancers summon the dead, wield the power of lost souls, and literally suck the life force from the enemy. Necromancers feed on life force, which they can use to bring allies back from the brink or cheat death itself. "
Yea, cheat death itself.. bring allies back… yea..
(source: wiki/official site )

Honestly, my fear is that the devs HAVE looked at the problematic foundations of the necro and have decided to “fix” those issues with making the new and improved class Revenant, what the necro should have been. Sadly, like many others I have no high expectations for this class anymore. I think the dev’s have made it quite clear that they find the class a lost cause.

I really hate to say it but if I play this game anywhere as much as I did before it will be playing as the Revenant lol. The class just looks cooler, has much cooler looking skills and animations. It just feels more my style i guess.

The necromancer has really kinda become this urber boring, stale, stand in one place, old grandfather snooze fest that REALLLY has taken the epicness of the games combat system and did nothing with it. Like, the devs just said as follows:

“Okay, so there are going to be some players who want to still tab select and left click all day have absolutely no hand/eye coordination… Lets just make the necro for them. Big fat tanks so they dont have to worry about moving too much and passive dps. Sounds good? Yeah since none of us like the necromancer anyway.”

Thats always been how I pictured the dev’s creating the necromancer. It really shows as well. Just so immobile, so linear, so underwhelming compared to the other classes that use the full capability of the combat system.

The STAFF…… ALLLL 4 skills are marks……. -_-; That was an actual design made by somebody who makes crap tons of money. “Lets just make the staff do the same thing… yeah?” Really guys? Really?

And thats why I’m looking forward to the new expansion. Not because of the GS necro (as if 1 new weapon is going to change everything about the class. Plus, if it does make that huge a difference; weapon diversity just went out the window) but because of the Revenant.

If the revenant is what I think it is, I might just move with the times and give up on this whole necro thing lol. I mean, just thinking of SoV makes me throw up.

Do they devs even care what we write? I have seen absolutely zero comms with devs about our class for a long time. By care I mean not take our analysis and turn it into the revenant which should have been the kitten necro spec

Hopefully this means a fix for blood magic and the signet of vampirism, a not the current tactics line for warrior, and a look at the ranger beast mastery line.

Gryph.8237:

Do they devs even care what we write? I have seen absolutely zero comms with devs about our class for a long time. By care I mean not take our analysis and turn it into the revenant which should have been the kitten necro spec

There is no evidence at all that the devs care about what we think about the class we have put many hours into. There is zero collaboration, not even a post to say that they do see our feedback. I cant remember seeing any dev post on the necro forums (beyond locking threads etc) for probably 2 years.

I agree with the others though. Unless there is some overhaul of the class to give it at least the OPTION to spec for sustain in pvp then I will role with a revenant. I think most necros will make the switch on release of the expansion as the new class seems to fit our play style and will hopefully have more variety to it.

Main problem with necro is too many of its skills (both weapon and utility) and traits are just flawed. As in it is worse than being “bad”, it is flawed. It cannot ever be good or fun because its flawed. Blood magic line is the obvious example with its interaction with deathshroud and its embarrasing small numbers. The whole thing is flawed so there is no rebalancing that can matter. The class needs reworking not rebalancing. Particularly the blood magic line.

Siphon health when you hit a foe healing for 40 or something is hilarious. You get backstabbed for 9k out of stealth on condi necro. You get steal/backstab/fire/air procced for about 15k out of nowhere with no counter play.

15,000 is alot more than 40. You need alot of 40s to have an effect. It is so terrible, all siphoning is just horrendously bad. Also it sucks because the best necro weapons have a slow rate of fire.

As for necro staff, I laugh when people call it overpowered. It is really a terrible terrible weapon. I would ditch it at soon as I could if another condi/hybrid weapon came out. It wouldnt even be a consideration.

Condi necro has been carried by scepter #1 for the whole existance of this game.

We should have the option to spec for sustain. Currently even a cleric necro is squishy beyond belief because we have no evades, blocks, dodges, healing. We really do need some sort of option to spec for massive sustain at the expense of damage. Warriors can spec for sustain on shoutbow and still hit me for 5k on celestial with arching arrow and final thrust. We need something along those lines. Or at least something which is just tanky. We need a blood magic overhaul. We need a 5 point trait giving perma vigor like other classes too.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Gryph.8237:

Do they devs even care what we write? I have seen absolutely zero comms with devs about our class for a long time. By care I mean not take our analysis and turn it into the revenant which should have been the kitten necro spec

There is no evidence at all that the devs care about what we think about the class we have put many hours into. There is zero collaboration, not even a post to say that they do see our feedback. I cant remember seeing any dev post on the necro forums (beyond locking threads etc) for probably 2 years.

I agree with the others though. Unless there is some overhaul of the class to give it at least the OPTION to spec for sustain in pvp then I will role with a revenant. I think most necros will make the switch on release of the expansion as the new class seems to fit our play style and will hopefully have more variety to it.

Main problem with necro is too many of its skills (both weapon and utility) and traits are just flawed. As in it is worse than being “bad”, it is flawed. It cannot ever be good or fun because its flawed. Blood magic line is the obvious example with its interaction with deathshroud and its embarrasing small numbers. The whole thing is flawed so there is no rebalancing that can matter. The class needs reworking not rebalancing. Particularly the blood magic line.

Siphon health when you hit a foe healing for 40 or something is hilarious. You get backstabbed for 9k out of stealth on condi necro. You get steal/backstab/fire/air procced for about 15k out of nowhere with no counter play.

15,000 is alot more than 40. You need alot of 40s to have an effect. It is so terrible, all siphoning is just horrendously bad. Also it sucks because the best necro weapons have a slow rate of fire.

As for necro staff, I laugh when people call it overpowered. It is really a terrible terrible weapon. I would ditch it at soon as I could if another condi/hybrid weapon came out. It wouldnt even be a consideration.

Condi necro has been carried by scepter #1 for the whole existance of this game.

We should have the option to spec for sustain. Currently even a cleric necro is squishy beyond belief because we have no evades, blocks, dodges, healing. We really do need some sort of option to spec for massive sustain at the expense of damage. Warriors can spec for sustain on shoutbow and still hit me for 5k on celestial with arching arrow and final thrust. We need something along those lines. Or at least something which is just tanky. We need a blood magic overhaul. We need a 5 point trait giving perma vigor like other classes too.

Agree man, agree. Can’t dispute anything you have said. I too was hoping GS was not just another power weapon, but a weapon that brings utility for both condi and power users so i can ditch the staff. Staff is not terrible in pvp but it is unreliable and too slow to depend on. Scepter has been the only weapon a condi user can use. Dagger is a great power weapon, scepter is slow, and cubersome to use, and the off hand cast times for dagger and focus blow. Really hoping the GS will be more control and useful to condi users as well as power builds, or all we will see is GS necro specs. though, seeing the track record, i have a feeling we are in for just that. overload of necro specs, on the minority who still play the class.

If we have to give up any trait line, might as well be blood, because, jesus, a condi user does not use it, a power build does not use it, only a minion build uses it, though i know some minion users would hate to lose the minion mancer builds. I’m speaking personally of course. I don’t know what they will make us give up. Seems almost a joke we have to give up broken mechanics? ok, yet please, to have something that functions.

I was wondering who’s in charge of the necromancer? Because obviously either he don’t go in forum anymore meaning he don’t care or he read some comments and are too ’’busy’’ to answer. So i will be very surprised if we get any answer one day. Maybe when they’ll talk about specialization of necro. Right now he’s not doing his job at all.

AngryJoe gave a really good interview, and I think Colin Brohansen I think responded well. I think it shows that they are excited for everything (and yes that includes Necromancer), and most importantly it shows they’ve been listening to the community, which is a good thing for Necromancers. Not saying it will be perfect, but just listening is an easy way to get Necromancer to where we want it to be.

Shiki.7148:

Taken From Angry Joes interview. Colin said the following:

“We’re also going back and looking at each profession and making adjustments to them, changing skills, rebalancing them.”

5 bucks say they kitten it up. Again.

Do you agree/disagree? What changes would you like to see to Necromancer (Skills/Traits, Cattimes/Aftercast-delay/Bugfixes/Cooldowns…) ?

“Looking into” is synonymous with “nerf” when it comes to ANET.

Making life siphon a bit better and changing some grandmaster traits into actually useful traits would be very nice for me.

Yeah, not keeping my hopes up but I am hoping.
If that makes any sense.

HeadCrowned.6834:

Making life siphon a bit better and changing some grandmaster traits into actually useful traits would be very nice for me.

Still waiting for self traited healing to work in DS.

Done. They looked at it. It was ugly, by the way.

Just point out that we do have the option to spec for sustain. It just involves using skills and traits that people keep touting as “bad” simply because you can’t slap them in a meta build and have sustain.

Life Siphon now is like having a second heal skill. Signet of the Locust can produce massive heals now (with very good scaling). Reaper’s Precision extends death shroud extremely significantly. Unholy Sanctuary can easily offer a 2k heal each time you go into death shroud.

For example, this build : http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRAQNBIhZakjmKbrpxnG2bTgLITm8K0LC0KyPnA-TFDCABofIAm4IAgz+DXp0zLlBjpEEgTAAp6AKV9nC1EUiWAIeAABAQAuZs5ND4m38o38o3sUAPNGA-w

Puts out pretty significant damage. With the birthday cake from the blaster, Life Siphon heals for 4,509 total (including Vampiric) every 15 seconds (including cast). Signet of the Locust heal for 1795 per target struck (max of 8,975). And it has utility beyond that in boon corruption and condition conversion while still maintaining decent damage.

Then there are spectral builds, which have pretty good sustain as well. A lot of variations on those, though.

What we don’t have the option to do is make a bunker spec.

About a year ago when they stated their design philosophy, the main idea behind Necro is to be the light armored attrition class that controls an area of control through mainly Death Shroud, followed by crowd control, life steals, condition manipulation and boon manipulation. The drawback was that once a player either exits or out maneuvers our zone of control, we would be at a disadvantage.

In actual implementation, our advantage doesn’t exist in practice while our disadvantage does. In all game modes Death Shroud has issues fullfilling its attrition mechanic when heavy spiking is involved and Life force becomes increasingly finite as a fight progresses. Unholy Sanctuary fixes a lot that’s wrong with DS usage and LF gain, but it’s a GM trait that only works with defensive and support builds. It doesn’t help or add anything to a majority of builds and doesn’t address the lack of self/group support we lack because of DS access.

Also in all game modes, the lack of mobility (to create our limited area/zone of control) severely limits play in many cases. Against players with heavy mobility, they can exit and re-enter combat at will with necros, bypassing our attrition by waiting us out or waiting until we make a mistake. For some reason we don’t have more hard CC when we have the least amount of mobility. In PvE, the lack of mobility for Necro hurts getting from point a to b and means we don’t have access to finishers that are usually tied to such skills.

Many classes also do a better job at controlling a fight in the 0-600 range we’re supposed to command and control. Although condis and boon hate comes in handy in PvP/WvW, we usually aren’t in “control” of anything when stun locked and bashed around like a pinata. When you say PvE, condi/boon manipulation and trash/boss mobs in the same sentence what do you think of? I think of the fact that 95% of mobs don’t even use boons/condis. Instead they have artificially high health bars and periodical, but avoidable spike damage that’s best countered with pure DPS and evades rather than any manipulation and DS.

If we’re not going to get a healthy access to self/team buffs in the way of boons or gain access to mobility like other classes, than we need more acess to unqiue self/team support in non-boon form and get a lot more access to soft/hard CC so we can control our active area of control with more stopping power. Off the top of my head and in my ideal world:

DS Change: While in Death Shroud, you can only lose up to 20% of your total Life Force bar per second except to falling damage. This would prevent the problems that DS has with overwhelming spike damage that makes it useless for spike attrition compared to evades, blocks etc. in similar curcumstances (thus elminiating our attrition role). Guaranteeing 4-5 seconds of DS with a 100% bar would solve a lot of problems, while not letting an army of Necros artificially survive 10+ seconds to opposing zerg DPS in say WvW. Or allow of healing or self healing to effect health pool at a reduced rate. In that case maybe even be able to use our healing skill in DS.

PvE Rebalance: Get rid of artificially high health pools and periodic spikes from mobs for more boon, condi and interesting pressure design. Make it so manipulation of enemies isn’t just helpful, but is something that in many cases changes the direction of PvE encounters in the player’s favour.

Revert nerfs to condi stacking in PvP due to Dhuumfire: This should have been done the instant Dhuumfire was moved to LB only. The fact that so many builds were nerfed for a trait they didn’t access was bad enough. Keeping the nerfs which didn’t fix the problem, even after eventually solving the problem another way, was even worse.

Staff (Make it a true control/support weapon): Turn Mark of Blood’s area regeneration application into a non-boon effect with a bit less healing. That way it can stack on existing Regeneraton applicaton of other classes (extra team support). Give Putrid Mark the ability to transfer condis (or 1 condition at least) from allies to enemies again. OR give Putrid Mark area Taunt as an anti-escape making enemies hit run towards us, thus solving some of our control issues.

Axe: 900 range, spash damage on AA.

SoV: Active should apply life steal in a similar fashion as Orders skills in GW1. 5 stacks of siphon for self and up to 4/5 allies with a 5-10 second duration. New utilities that add group extra “damage buffs” like GW1 order skills would be a nice niche as well.

WoB: Fix Healing Power scaling to pre nerf levels and/or make it a water field.

More access to Vigor, Stability and stun breakers: If we’re an attrition class we need to be able to stand our ground. To stand our ground we need to be able to hold off stun locks. The only way to do that is with these two boons and stun breakers.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Just point out that we do have the option to spec for sustain. It just involves using skills and traits that people keep touting as “bad” simply because you can’t slap them in a meta build and have sustain.

Life Siphon now is like having a second heal skill. Signet of the Locust can produce massive heals now (with very good scaling). Reaper’s Precision extends death shroud extremely significantly. Unholy Sanctuary can easily offer a 2k heal each time you go into death shroud.

For example, this build : http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRAQNBIhZakjmKbrpxnG2bTgLITm8K0LC0KyPnA-TFDCABofIAm4IAgz+DXp0zLlBjpEEgTAAp6AKV9nC1EUiWAIeAABAQAuZs5ND4m38o38o3sUAPNGA-w

Puts out pretty significant damage. With the birthday cake from the blaster, Life Siphon heals for 4,509 total (including Vampiric) every 15 seconds (including cast). Signet of the Locust heal for 1795 per target struck (max of 8,975). And it has utility beyond that in boon corruption and condition conversion while still maintaining decent damage.

Then there are spectral builds, which have pretty good sustain as well. A lot of variations on those, though.

What we don’t have the option to do is make a bunker spec.

We can make bunker specs with Unholy Sanctuary now, but the lack of stun breakers, stability and vigor makes it sub-optimal. When playing around with Unholy, SoV and SoL lately with support gear, there’s been many instances when I have 3 players on me in PvP and they can’t take the point because of the revolving DS/HP pool door. All it takes though is someone with good command of their pressure and hard/soft cc to come along and ruin your day. Like a very good engie, mes or warrior (usually a skilled engie or mes +1 add for me).

Sorry for the double post, couldn’t fit this into last post because it was at max characters. I actually wanted to list more stuff that should change for necros like making DS more condi friendly too in application, but ran out of room.

Edit: Just something I noticed watching the Angryjoe interview again. When he asks about whether or not specializations block off features of the existing classes (around 5:40 mark), Colin says no then goes on to say at anytime out of combat you will be able to switch back and forth between ranger and druid for example. Prior to this he talks about specializations completely changing your skills and traits.

Unless he explained it wrong, that means specializations will block off the vanilla class until you change back out of combat. Any balance done through the specialization won’t affect vanilla except that our Necros toons will have access to a spinoff class however good/bad it turns out. So rebalancing of vanilla Necro seems very important if it’s to be more viable in its pure form.

I’d say the reason Necro bunkers don’t really exist is because they lose the point to the first knockback. Too vulnerable to hard CC to bunker that well.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

I’d say the reason Necro bunkers don’t really exist is because they lose the point to the first knockback. Too vulnerable to hard CC to bunker that well.

Yeah exactly. If we don’t take precautions (like properly identifying/dodging knockbacks and blowbacks), the best case scenario is using our one stun break (if we have one on) to get back on point before the last tick for losing control. Then followed up with some lucky fears to get 1-2 ticks back only to be followed by more hard cc knocking us off the point 20-30 seconds later. Eventually though we’re going to either lose the point or keep it only neutral.

It really shouldn’t be that hard for the professions intended to be " the light armored attrition class" without mobility.

I will continue to play it regardless. Just like I did with Ranger.

I would be happy with some decreased cast times and cooldowns, and a rework of A1-A3 to include a cleave.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

I’d say the reason Necro bunkers don’t really exist is because they lose the point to the first knockback. Too vulnerable to hard CC to bunker that well.

This, I tried bunker cleric necro and yes I managed to support and sustain,but if the aggro I receive includes CC I am easily beaten down, I couldn’t pick up Foot in the Grave as it would mess up my spec,not even enough AoE blind. Self-traited healing still need to work in DS,all of my healing was out of DS which I was getting in and out of it.

It is difficult to spec for sustain.

A major problem is that you need a ton of condition removal in this game and so that is why we have to run with consume conditions despites its weak heal, long cd and long cast time.

A better option would be a well of blood spec. But then we have no condi removal. Necro could do with more traits which enable condition removal. You cant rely on condi transfers to save your life really. We need something like “everytime you use a spectral skill lose 3 conditions” and stuff like that. Would open up a ton of build options which currently are not viable because you have to run consume conditions which is not a good heal for sustain.

Lordrosicky.5813:

It is difficult to spec for sustain.

A major problem is that you need a ton of condition removal in this game and so that is why we have to run with consume conditions despites its weak heal, long cd and long cast time.

A better option would be a well of blood spec. But then we have no condi removal. Necro could do with more traits which enable condition removal. You cant rely on condi transfers to save your life really. We need something like “everytime you use a spectral skill lose 3 conditions” and stuff like that. Would open up a ton of build options which currently are not viable because you have to run consume conditions which is not a good heal for sustain.

I agree, maybe it’s gonna be our futur elite or heal spectral skills, we lack spectral in both elite and heal.

Lordrosicky.5813:

It is difficult to spec for sustain.

A major problem is that you need a ton of condition removal in this game and so that is why we have to run with consume conditions despites its weak heal, long cd and long cast time.

A better option would be a well of blood spec. But then we have no condi removal. Necro could do with more traits which enable condition removal. You cant rely on condi transfers to save your life really. We need something like “everytime you use a spectral skill lose 3 conditions” and stuff like that. Would open up a ton of build options which currently are not viable because you have to run consume conditions which is not a good heal for sustain.

I tried this http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRAQRBHbhG2IHNN3WZjtN83mIXQmuZxkQGIBlZ/C-TJxHwACeCAILD4Z/BAnEAA

CC was a bigger problem for me then conditions, I doubt it could be much of an issue unless you are focused. If siphon worked it DS I would have different traits.

Honestly the problem with necromancer lies in the death shroud mechanic & the fact they bring very little in the form of group support.

All other classes have damage mitigating tools that scale off of a specific percentage base.
This ensures they are of the same use no matter how many enemies your fighting.

Death shroud however simply acts like a second health bar (one that you must fill up).
This means that at the start of a fight your at a disadvantage if you do not already have life force & life force becomes weaker for each subsequent enemy in the fight.

If they would simply

1: Make the necro spawn with a % of his/her life force already filled (say somewhere between 30-50%)

2: Change death shroud to reduce all damage taken by a set % while active instead of absorb damage.

3: Get rid of degradation of life force via damage while death shroud is active (make it time based.)

4: Allow some forms of healing to go through death shroud. (siphons, steals etc..)

5: Change up a few weapon & utility skills to provide things like protection, retaliation & regeneration for allies.

After these changes necro could be perfectly fine. Short of them though your just throwing bandaids on a infected wound.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

I’d say the reason Necro bunkers don’t really exist is because they lose the point to the first knockback. Too vulnerable to hard CC to bunker that well.

That isn’t the problem, we can make builds that can stay on point just fine.

The problem is if you make a build that is beefy enough to not die to focus fire you don’t enough else compared to other builds. I’ll break it into the two bunker builds, side and teamfight:

Side bunkers bring moderate to high tankiness (we can do this), moderate to high sustain (we can do this), moderate damage (we can do this), and some mix of good mobility, objective control, and ability to aid teamfights.
Let’s take the best bunker we have right now: MM. Ignoring AI issues, MM fills the tankiness, sustain, and damage parts just fine. It lacks in good enough mobility, has very low objective control, and is awful in teamfights. Other bunkers tend to be very good in teamfights (warrior, ranger, ele), and/or have very high damage that allow them to realistically pressure both side points (engi, mesmer).
The other builds we have also lack teamfight support. They also tend to lack even more damage or sustain. This is often highly linked to deficits in weapon skills, utility skills, traits, and especially a lack of combos.

Teamfight Bunkers
Same as side point, but with a much lower focus on damage/mobility, and a much higher focus on support and not dying.
We have no build that can really be said to exist here, we have no meaningful support, our weapons are awful at this, our traits are mediocre.

Really we aren’t far off from being a decent side point bunker. MM with some fixes would fill this fine, Greatsword + trait changes could definitely make this possible as well. But CC isn’t the problem, the problem is other things.

I see some adjustments with some traits and skills that see little to no use. Unholy Martyr seems like a prime candidate for changes in the expansion. Along with skills like Corrosive Poison cloud. The entire blood magic line needs some major work in it.

Lily.1935:

I see some adjustments with some traits and skills that see little to no use. Unholy Martyr seems like a prime candidate for changes in the expansion. Along with skills like Corrosive Poison cloud. The entire blood magic line needs some major work in it.

This ^ more or less.

I can see a ton of traits that need looked at as well as a few utility skills & possibly a couple weapon skills.

Many of the blood magic traits being among them. It’s supposed to be the supportive trait line but all it’s skill are so underwhelming it never sees use.

Sagat.3285:

I tried this http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRAQRBHbhG2IHNN3WZjtN83mIXQmuZxkQGIBlZ/C-TJxHwACeCAILD4Z/BAnEAA

CC was a bigger problem for me then conditions, I doubt it could be much of an issue unless you are focused. If siphon worked it DS I would have different traits.

If this is the build you talked about one post earlier I really want to ask why you can’t under no circumstance afford to go for Foot in the Grave?

For example, leaving other trait choices aside, you could easily go:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRAQRBHbhG2IHNN3WZjtN83mIXQmMZRIDkg6sf7C-TJxHwACeCAILD4Z/BAnEAA

You would trade Mark of Evasion on dodge for a potential 40% Stability uptime. Granted, you will lose some group support (and to a certain extent self-sustainability). You might want to keep in mind though that Regeneration is one of the most accessible boons anyway. Your team mates might benefit more from having your Life Transfer channel being secured through Stability. Or in other words: Why pick Transfusion in the first place if you feel you’re having a hard time against CC which will wreck that 3s channel anyway.

I do agree that Necromancers need some help in certain areas. But I keep seeing people stating not being able to pick something which would actually help with their problems because they deem something maybe less important to be necessary. Try new things. Think outside of established boxes. Get your priorities straight. And maybe accept that you might not be able to get all you want at once (for example: damage from Deathly Precision vs. sustainability from Foot in the Grave etc.)

Depends on team,the reason are siphon don’t work in DS,they are small but they help,if they worked I wouldn’t mind staying in it longer but they don’t,that extra LF is not of much help and I lose my weapons skills which are more useful then the ones in DS,Transfusion is high CD as well. I tried well focused healing but it’s too stationary and gimmicky.

Edit: If a trait that could transfer your siphon to allies it would help as well,instead of whatever the new trait was for Blood Magic. Swap spectral armor for well of power more sustain.

Sagat.3285:

Depends on team,the reason are siphon don’t work in DS,they are small but they help,if they worked I wouldn’t mind staying in it longer but they don’t,that extra LF is not of much help and I lose my weapons skills which are more useful then the ones in DS,Transfusion is high CD as well. I tried well focused healing but it’s too stationary and gimmicky.

Edit: If a trait that could transfer your siphon to allies it would help as well,instead of whatever the new trait was for Blood Magic. Swap spectral armor for well of power more sustain.

I have actually suggested for a while now that the trait vampiric rituals should instead cause all of your attacks to steal health from enemies & share it with nearby allies including yourself.

This would make it rather useful for sustain & group support.

Having it be group siphoning heavily hurts its use in 1v1s. Make the minor GM (5 point) trait: Vampiric/Vampiric Precision/Vampiric Master/Vampiric Rituals all heal allies within X radius. Move vampiric ritual to master, rework siphons a bit to make them actually useful, and Blood Magic might actually be a decent trait line if it gets a good GM support trait.

Bhawb.7408:

Having it be group siphoning heavily hurts its use in 1v1s. Make the minor GM (5 point) trait: Vampiric/Vampiric Precision/Vampiric Master/Vampiric Rituals all heal allies within X radius. Move vampiric ritual to master, rework siphons a bit to make them actually useful, and Blood Magic might actually be a decent trait line if it gets a good GM support trait.

They seem scared and indecisive with necro GM traits,all but Spite’s are sustain oriented but are weak. I made a bit of use with US in fractals but that was it,tried the others I just couldn’t find suitable set ups. I tried healing my minions in DS,maxing conditions dps but just weak.

It’s annoying that Renewing Blast isn’t a bit easier to heal allies with, as that is really the trait’s only problem. The amount it heals sure isn’t. It’s placement is all right as well, really (a bit odd, but being in the same line as Vital Persistence and Unyielding Blast provides a nice 3-major trait synergy).

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

It’s annoying that Renewing Blast isn’t a bit easier to heal allies with, as that is really the trait’s only problem. The amount it heals sure isn’t. It’s placement is all right as well, really (a bit odd, but being in the same line as Vital Persistence and Unyielding Blast provides a nice 3-major trait synergy).

I have also suggested for a while that they change renewing blast so that it puts a debuff on the enemy which heals everyone who attacks it for X seconds.

That or make it AOE heal enemies around the foe you blast.

Either one would be a great improvement over trying to aim an attack so that it “might” pass through allies.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

It’s annoying that Renewing Blast isn’t a bit easier to heal allies with, as that is really the trait’s only problem. The amount it heals sure isn’t. It’s placement is all right as well, really (a bit odd, but being in the same line as Vital Persistence and Unyielding Blast provides a nice 3-major trait synergy).

I actually tried running a Cleric Necro in the Silverwastes for funsies lately, identifying Renewing Blast as a major source for outgoing healing. It’s remarkably difficult to hit allies, or at least confirm that you’re hitting allies, in open dynamic battles. If your heal target is wiggling at all, you’ll never land it consistently. Height differences between you and your target only make it worse. (Targets whose auto-aim is very tall, or who are flying by default) If they’re tall enough, you won’t even hit allies in melee range directly between you and your target.

I really think the area / way that the healing is applied should to be looked at. That or the tolerance for missing could be drastically increased, even if it comes at the cost of slightly reduced healing.