Guild Wars 2

Aenesthesia.1697:

MethaneGas.8357:

MonkeyButtFace.4862:

Know what I think this game needs?

Something WoW and other games have done for a long time to help balance DoT classes.

A condition that, when cleansed, deals a spike of damage and is high on the cleanse priority. Hell, I’d make it a grandmaster trait for necros, just cause I think that it fits our ‘role’ as a condi class, in that we’re better at controlling them than we are at actually applying them.

Make it effect the cleanser, not necessarily the person the condi was on. Be able to apply it in an AoE. That way, big AoE-cleanse spammers might take massive damage spikes if they mindlessly press buttons. Meanwhile, classes that don’t use a whole lot of cleanse, and do so judiciously, take a much more comfortable amount and aren’t as put out by it.

Or maybe a new condition which deals damage whenever that target cleanses a condi however many condis cleansed —> that much damage.

That would be lethal…. For necros!

Really,i would mean they could apply a condition on you and, when you needed to heal, it would kill you! Or you would have to forget about consume conditions, one of our stronger skills.

Which is part of why I suggested it the way I suggested it.

It’d be fairly small for something like Consume Conditions, since it’s a personal cleanse. AoE cleanses would be where it would be dangerous.

Uriel.6310:

ima gonna be sad if we cant play a viable condi necro for pvp without being steamrolled.

Condi nec is still a viable spec unles the enemy team’s playing with at least 3 shoutbows. It’s not in a good place, but it’s not as bad as people portray it in this topic (unless you want to participate in weekly cups). It’s just not an easy build.

MonkeyButtFace.4862:

Aenesthesia.1697:

MethaneGas.8357:

MonkeyButtFace.4862:

Know what I think this game needs?

Something WoW and other games have done for a long time to help balance DoT classes.

A condition that, when cleansed, deals a spike of damage and is high on the cleanse priority. Hell, I’d make it a grandmaster trait for necros, just cause I think that it fits our ‘role’ as a condi class, in that we’re better at controlling them than we are at actually applying them.

Make it effect the cleanser, not necessarily the person the condi was on. Be able to apply it in an AoE. That way, big AoE-cleanse spammers might take massive damage spikes if they mindlessly press buttons. Meanwhile, classes that don’t use a whole lot of cleanse, and do so judiciously, take a much more comfortable amount and aren’t as put out by it.

Or maybe a new condition which deals damage whenever that target cleanses a condi however many condis cleansed —> that much damage.

That would be lethal…. For necros!

Really,i would mean they could apply a condition on you and, when you needed to heal, it would kill you! Or you would have to forget about consume conditions, one of our stronger skills.

Which is part of why I suggested it the way I suggested it.

It’d be fairly small for something like Consume Conditions, since it’s a personal cleanse. AoE cleanses would be where it would be dangerous.

still… another necro casts signet of spite on you, and you better have a way to transfer those conditions before you heal (and trasnfer shouldn’t count as cleanse) or you are dead.

witcher.3197:

Uriel.6310:

ima gonna be sad if we cant play a viable condi necro for pvp without being steamrolled.

Condi nec is still a viable spec unles the enemy team’s playing with at least 3 shoutbows. It’s not in a good place, but it’s not as bad as people portray it in this topic (unless you want to participate in weekly cups). It’s just not an easy build.

it’s not bad to tip the balance of a team fight in your favor, if you really stay behind and avoid being focused, but still…. there’s better ways to help your team than by being terror necro.

Aenesthesia.1697:

MonkeyButtFace.4862:

Aenesthesia.1697:

MethaneGas.8357:

MonkeyButtFace.4862:

Know what I think this game needs?

Something WoW and other games have done for a long time to help balance DoT classes.

A condition that, when cleansed, deals a spike of damage and is high on the cleanse priority. Hell, I’d make it a grandmaster trait for necros, just cause I think that it fits our ‘role’ as a condi class, in that we’re better at controlling them than we are at actually applying them.

Make it effect the cleanser, not necessarily the person the condi was on. Be able to apply it in an AoE. That way, big AoE-cleanse spammers might take massive damage spikes if they mindlessly press buttons. Meanwhile, classes that don’t use a whole lot of cleanse, and do so judiciously, take a much more comfortable amount and aren’t as put out by it.

Or maybe a new condition which deals damage whenever that target cleanses a condi however many condis cleansed —> that much damage.

That would be lethal…. For necros!

Really,i would mean they could apply a condition on you and, when you needed to heal, it would kill you! Or you would have to forget about consume conditions, one of our stronger skills.

Which is part of why I suggested it the way I suggested it.

It’d be fairly small for something like Consume Conditions, since it’s a personal cleanse. AoE cleanses would be where it would be dangerous.

still… another necro casts signet of spite on you, and you better have a way to transfer those conditions before you heal (and trasnfer shouldn’t count as cleanse) or you are dead.

Don’t confuse me with the other guy.

I was talking about a flat amount of damage for cleansing, not per-condi. So if you cleanse one person, yourself, you take say… 500-800 damage. Meh, nothing too serious really. Most classes can do more than that with an auto attack. This is whether you cleanse one condition or fifty, still the same amount.

But if you pop an AoE cleanse and hit three or four people, you suddenly take more like 2000-2500 damage. That’s a not-insignificant amount, but not so much that it can by itself turn a fight around. You do this three or four times without thinking, though, and you could get yourself in a bad way.

/xxx/ – xxx is optional

Couple things I’d do:

Furious Demise baseline.

Reaper’s Precision – When you critically strike a foe affected by Condition, gain 2% Life Force (1/2s ICD).

Target the weak dropped to Master Minor.

Parasitic Contagion /working in DS/, value to 10%, moved to Grandmaster minor Curses.

Lingering Curse duration dropped to 50%, /rest “baselined”/. Now all conditions you apply when wielding a Scepter apply in AoE around the Target. Scepter attacks 15% faster.

Putrid Curse applying one bonus bleed in addition to Poison.

Grasping Dead applying Torment instead of Bleeding

Feast of Corruption damage modifier removed. Now applies 1s of Weakness and restores 10 endurance for every condition on foe. Now 5% Life Force per condition.

Master of Corruption: Corruption skills now apply Confusion (3 stacks, 7 seconds) on cast to all affected targets and reduce cooldown of Tainted Shackles by their cooldown value.

New Curses GM:

Suffering
Your Life Blast now costs 2/3/% Life Force and applies Suffering effect for 15 seconds when target is affected by 2 or more conditions. Every following stack is reduced by 3 seconds in duration. Stacks in intensity up to 5 stacks.

Each stack of Suffering increases your Condition damage on target by 10% and increases the duration of applied Conditions by 10%. When your Condition is cleansed and at least one remains, remove one stack of Suffering and deal damage equal to (~0.8 x your Condition damage stat value) in radius from cleansed foe, restoring 2% Life Force for each enemy hit. /If target affected by Suffering has no conditions applied to him, effect ends/.

Dhuumfire – Internal cooldown per target, increased Burning duration. Removing or corrupting a Boon resets the cooldown. Life Blast is 10% faster.

Adding #6 Death and Reaper Shroud skill/F2:

Clamor of Souls

Upkeep Skill (like Revenant elites). 10 second cooldown.
Consume 10% Life Force, /heal for small amount for every condition on you/ and displace yourself from the mortal realm for 2 seconds (Distortion).
After 2 seconds, begin Conversion

Conversion
While Conversion is active, you can’t take more damage than (5-7% of default health value) from a single hit and suffer from Slow (1s) every second. Convert 7% of Life Force to health, healing yourself and your allies every second. Every second of Conversion being active adds 2 seconds to cooldown of Clamor of Souls skill.

I think those changes would fix at least some problems of Condition Necromancer and are quite interesting to play with.

Rym.

EDIT: Re-worded Suffering descreption.
EDIT 2: Applied some numbers. Corrected.

Disclaimer: Numbers need balancing
Disclaimer: Suffering cannot crit.

Rym.1469:

/xxx/ – xxx is optional

Couple things I’d do:

Furious Demise baseline.

Reaper’s Precision – When you critically strike a foe affected by Condition, gain 2% Life Force (1/2s ICD).

Target the weak dropped to Master Minor.

Parasitic Contagion /working in DS/, value to 10%, moved to Grandmaster minor Curses.

Lingering Curse duration dropped to 50%, /rest “baselined”/. Now all conditions you apply when wielding a Scepter apply in AoE around the Target. Scepter attacks 15% faster.

Putrid Curse applying one bonus bleed in addition to Poison.

Grasping Dead applying Torment instead of Bleeding

Feast of Corruption damage modifier removed. Now applies 1s of Weakness and restores 10 endurance for every condition on foe. Now 5% Life Force per condition.

Master of Corruption: Corruption skills now apply Confusion (3 stacks, 7 seconds) on cast to all affected targets and reduce cooldown of Tainted Shackles by their cooldown value.

New Curses GM:

Suffering
Your Life Blast now costs 2/3/% Life Force and applies Suffering effect for 15 seconds when target is affected by 2 or more of your conditions. Every following stack is reduced by 3 seconds in duration. Stacks in intensity up to 5 stacks.

Each stack of Suffering increases your Condition damage on target by 10% and increases the duration of applied Conditions by 10%. When your Condition is cleansed and at least one remains, remove one stack of Suffering and deal damage equal to (~0.8 x your Condition damage stat value) in radius from cleansed foe, restoring 2% Life Force for each enemy hit. /If target affected by Suffering has no conditions applied to him, effect ends/.

Dhuumfire – Internal cooldown per target, increased Burning duration. Removing or corrupting a Boon resets the cooldown. Life Blast is 10% faster.

Adding #6 Death and Reaper Shroud skill/F2:

Clamor of Souls

Upkeep Skill (like Revenant elites). 10 second cooldown.
Consume 10% Life Force, /heal for small amount for every condition on you/ and displace yourself from the mortal realm for 2 seconds (Distortion).
After 2 seconds, begin Conversion

Conversion
While Conversion is active, you can’t take more damage than (5-7% of default health value) from a single hit and suffer from Slow (1s) every second. Convert 7% of Life Force to health, healing yourself and your allies every second. Every second of Conversion being active adds 2 seconds to cooldown of Clamor of Souls skill.

I think those changes would fix at least some problems of Condition Necromancer and are quite interesting to play with.

Rym.

EDIT: Re-worded Suffering descreption.
EDIT 2: Applied some numbers. Corrected.

Disclaimer: Numbers need balancing
Disclaimer: Suffering cannot crit.

Problem is that necro needs every condition condi cleanse is so omnipresent. Necro needs reliable burn and confusion.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Problem is that necro needs every condition condi cleanse is so omnipresent. Necro needs reliable burn and confusion.

Condition necro needs to be somewhat more similar to power even tough I hate to say it, new dhuumfire fixes one thing,poison stacking with CPC fixes another by making it somewhat similar to WoS but CPC need to actually hit to proc siphon which are very minimal for condition necro, some weapon and trait improvements there and there and a condition that negates boon effects.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Rym.1469:

snip

Problem is that necro needs every condition condi cleanse is so omnipresent. Necro needs reliable burn and confusion.

Burning changes in next balance patch. It will now stack.

We don’t really need all conditions in game on Necromancer. Instead, I’d focus on fun, interesing gameplay with existing conditions in a way that properly played and built Conditionmancer could heavily punish AoE cleanses with good timing and management.

We already have too many conditions in game imho and we’re getting even more. Instead of applying 10 conditions with one skill like Engineer, let Necromancer be less about quantity, but more about quality. I already included Torment and Weakness in Scepter, as many suggested in the past. And endurance regen.

I’ll give you an example.

Teamfight. You land couple of your AoE Condition skills. Allies land some. You spread out Suffering on two or three targets total. Let’s say, 7-8 stacks of Suffering in total.

Shoutbow enters the fight. I’m not sure about number and coefficient, but let’s say each Suffering stack equals 1500 damage. He enters the fight, uses two AoE condition cleanses, 1 condition each, ele cleanses bonus 1 AoE.
A mistake. Instant 8×1500 damage to whole party and you gain tons of Life Force. Then proceed applying conditions and Suffering, maybe heal party up with Conversion. Now it might be unlikely that such burst will occur at once. But constant Suffering application and removing it while in teamfight isn’t a small pressure.

Suffering puts great pressure. If you cleanse, you get damage. If you let Necromancer stack Suffering, his conditions will suddenly do 30, 40% more damage. So you have to keep attention. Suffering strikes in AoE so every cleanse equals party-wide damage and high stacks penalize staying in teamfight.

What’s our biggest weakness in teamfight? Tons of party-wide cleansing. What does Suffering solve? Exactly this thing. Without overloading us with another Dhuumfire patch. And instead of being a proc, it adds element of skillshot.

In addition, since I’m fixated about Life Force management and decision making in it, I added Clamor of Souls. I think such bonus mechanic/skill to core profession would be pretty cool to play with. More damage negation or greatly reduced damage and huge AoE healing? Can I afford one bonus second, or will I need distortion sooner?

Necromancer should have more condition management group support. Condition damage is sub-par but the profession should at least be great at cursing and removing curses.

I think you could improve terrormancers if you decoupled fear and terror. Make fear a CC as it is now, but make terror a separate damaging condition with a longer duration. This would give us more cover, and more damage without making the CC OP.

Although I think the underlying problem is that condition cleanses currently just don’t cost enough. In other MMO’s cleansing a dot has a significant mana cost. If you try to go around and cleanse everyone of all their dots you will quickly find yourself out of mana and unable to cast at all. There is simply no cost to cleansing in this game, you can spam shouts and blast fields all day.

Fix the underlying problem: conditions and boons are too cheap.

What I do not understand is why builds of any profession can inflict conditions with little or no investment into condition stat’s.

Anchoku.8142:

Fix the underlying problem: conditions and boons are too cheap.

What I do not understand is why builds of any profession can inflict conditions with little or no investment into condition stat’s.

So the underlying problem are 2 basic mechanics of the game? And you dont understand why there are skills that have a secondary function next to direct damage? Seriously?>

@Rym
-Furious Demise baseline.
-Grasping Dead applying Torment instead of Bleeding
Very good suggestions
-Master of Corruption: Corruption skills now apply Confusion (3 stacks, 7 seconds) on cast to all affected targets and reduce cooldown of Tainted Shackles by their cooldown value.
While i would like confusion, this suggestion and some others are a little weird and way too complicated. I’d suggest that master of corruption gives additionally to 20% cd reduction removal of corruption effect or makes the skills more effective(12 stacks of might instead of 10, corrupt 7boons, cpc applies cripple/destroys projectiles, skills spread from epidemic last 2-3second more)
The rest of the suggestions again way too complicated. I liked Clamor of souls, sacrificing life force for distortion. Maybe we get this as next specialization, the theme of gaining-sacrificing life force.

MonkeyButtFace.4862:

Aenesthesia.1697:

MonkeyButtFace.4862:

Aenesthesia.1697:

MethaneGas.8357:

MonkeyButtFace.4862:

Know what I think this game needs?

Something WoW and other games have done for a long time to help balance DoT classes.

A condition that, when cleansed, deals a spike of damage and is high on the cleanse priority. Hell, I’d make it a grandmaster trait for necros, just cause I think that it fits our ‘role’ as a condi class, in that we’re better at controlling them than we are at actually applying them.

Make it effect the cleanser, not necessarily the person the condi was on. Be able to apply it in an AoE. That way, big AoE-cleanse spammers might take massive damage spikes if they mindlessly press buttons. Meanwhile, classes that don’t use a whole lot of cleanse, and do so judiciously, take a much more comfortable amount and aren’t as put out by it.

Or maybe a new condition which deals damage whenever that target cleanses a condi however many condis cleansed —> that much damage.

That would be lethal…. For necros!

Really,i would mean they could apply a condition on you and, when you needed to heal, it would kill you! Or you would have to forget about consume conditions, one of our stronger skills.

Which is part of why I suggested it the way I suggested it.

It’d be fairly small for something like Consume Conditions, since it’s a personal cleanse. AoE cleanses would be where it would be dangerous.

still… another necro casts signet of spite on you, and you better have a way to transfer those conditions before you heal (and trasnfer shouldn’t count as cleanse) or you are dead.

Don’t confuse me with the other guy.

I was talking about a flat amount of damage for cleansing, not per-condi. So if you cleanse one person, yourself, you take say… 500-800 damage. Meh, nothing too serious really. Most classes can do more than that with an auto attack. This is whether you cleanse one condition or fifty, still the same amount.

But if you pop an AoE cleanse and hit three or four people, you suddenly take more like 2000-2500 damage. That’s a not-insignificant amount, but not so much that it can by itself turn a fight around. You do this three or four times without thinking, though, and you could get yourself in a bad way.

Oh, so you mean you would punish cleansing many people instead of just yourself. Well, while it would actually help conditions regain he top spot in pvp, it also works heavily against the phylosophy of this game’s gameplay: act as a team. As a necro though, the one class completely oblivious to the game’s mechanics, i say ‘bring it on’!

I mean, if we cannot be team players, let’s punish those who are….

Honestly I feel that one thing that would be great would be to make it so that Weakness just causes enemies to deal 25% less damage period. Would also be nice if there was a condition that made it to where you couldn’t CC people while applied, one can only hope though. Yes I understand what I’m asking for is pretty much just a Condition version of Protection and Stability still. Plus with all the cleansing in the game it would just punish players and builds who rely on nothing but CCs to win the fight.

Would be happier with a way to build lifeforce faster as a condi build, and some of the nerfs post dhuumfire returned

i know that condi necro is in a bad spot atm as his conditions preety much slow proc versus other condi classes.
i know fear is good condi/cc but again hammer warriro can stun better or even engi which all left us out of the meta composition.

i try to come up with new role for the terrormancer which is weakness and poison. these 2 conditions can negate dmg and healing abilities
i tried it on tpvp with my guildies to perma weakness and poison my enemies while fear them in the right moment . the enemy drop like a flies while we could sustain longer
we observe that on warrior my weakness duration was about 3 sec betwean his cleanse which force him to cleasne and play defense.
thieves just didnt do dmg and force to SR and stealth
mesmer we ignore him with wekness on him
engi we burst with fear chain and poison around him so no res for him

i went 4,4,0,0,6 with stability (fotg) with 5 weakness abilities dagger 5, trait with go DS , curroption field, signet, and currpot boon (when they get might)

as stae above i wish i could have more abilities to build life force beside staff spamming

ZudetGambeous.9573:

I think you could improve terrormancers if you decoupled fear and terror. Make fear a CC as it is now, but make terror a separate damaging condition with a longer duration. This would give us more cover, and more damage without making the CC OP.

Interesting. Terror could be a conditional condition (like Confusion or Torment) where it inflicts heavy damage if the foe is looking at you but minor (or no) damage if they are facing away.

Aenesthesia.1697:

MonkeyButtFace.4862:

Aenesthesia.1697:

MonkeyButtFace.4862:

Aenesthesia.1697:

MethaneGas.8357:

MonkeyButtFace.4862:

Know what I think this game needs?

Something WoW and other games have done for a long time to help balance DoT classes.

A condition that, when cleansed, deals a spike of damage and is high on the cleanse priority. Hell, I’d make it a grandmaster trait for necros, just cause I think that it fits our ‘role’ as a condi class, in that we’re better at controlling them than we are at actually applying them.

Make it effect the cleanser, not necessarily the person the condi was on. Be able to apply it in an AoE. That way, big AoE-cleanse spammers might take massive damage spikes if they mindlessly press buttons. Meanwhile, classes that don’t use a whole lot of cleanse, and do so judiciously, take a much more comfortable amount and aren’t as put out by it.

Or maybe a new condition which deals damage whenever that target cleanses a condi however many condis cleansed —> that much damage.

That would be lethal…. For necros!

Really,i would mean they could apply a condition on you and, when you needed to heal, it would kill you! Or you would have to forget about consume conditions, one of our stronger skills.

Which is part of why I suggested it the way I suggested it.

It’d be fairly small for something like Consume Conditions, since it’s a personal cleanse. AoE cleanses would be where it would be dangerous.

still… another necro casts signet of spite on you, and you better have a way to transfer those conditions before you heal (and trasnfer shouldn’t count as cleanse) or you are dead.

Don’t confuse me with the other guy.

I was talking about a flat amount of damage for cleansing, not per-condi. So if you cleanse one person, yourself, you take say… 500-800 damage. Meh, nothing too serious really. Most classes can do more than that with an auto attack. This is whether you cleanse one condition or fifty, still the same amount.

But if you pop an AoE cleanse and hit three or four people, you suddenly take more like 2000-2500 damage. That’s a not-insignificant amount, but not so much that it can by itself turn a fight around. You do this three or four times without thinking, though, and you could get yourself in a bad way.

Oh, so you mean you would punish cleansing many people instead of just yourself. Well, while it would actually help conditions regain he top spot in pvp, it also works heavily against the phylosophy of this game’s gameplay: act as a team. As a necro though, the one class completely oblivious to the game’s mechanics, i say ‘bring it on’!

I mean, if we cannot be team players, let’s punish those who are….

Well, not really. You can still act as a team, you just have to be CAREFUL. I mean, why not? Add some counterplay to the tactic of ‘cleanse ALL the things!’. Counterplay is nice.