Guild Wars 2

with condi duration runes and food you can get the burning from dhuumfire to stack up to 5 times on a rotation. it is very easy to stack chill, poison, bleeding, vuln and fear, pop shroud, and stack torment while stacking burning, and more fear all without breaking any other skill animation.

shroud skill 1 goes faster underwater, so any champs there just melt. (ya ya, who plays underwater)

condi necro’s strength has never been the number of stacks, but the duration of the stacks, and their variety. you can do every condition, and even confusion if you are an asura.

roachsrealm.9284:

with condi duration runes and food you can get the burning from dhuumfire to stack up to 5 times on a rotation. it is very easy to stack chill, poison, bleeding, vuln and fear, pop shroud, and stack torment while stacking burning, and more fear all without breaking any other skill animation.

shroud skill 1 goes faster underwater, so any champs there just melt. (ya ya, who plays underwater)

condi necro’s strength has never been the number of stacks, but the duration of the stacks, and their variety. you can do every condition, and even confusion if you are an asura.

Yeah but even with long duration it still means you kill 4 times slower than a class that uses burning (IF both apply the same amount of stacks, of course).

Meanwhile in ele land they’re stacking burning with lovely ticks. I was kind of expecting condi necros to be better after the patch

So epidemic being capped to 25 stacks is in the patch notes. Im not sure people are aware but all transfers are also capped at 25. Was trying to transfer 500 stacks of burn back to the SE p1 golem. Unfortunately it didnt work and we could only get above 25 by having multiple necros/mesmers. :<

And yes necros are even worse at condis now than they were before the patch. relatively speaking obviously. You can thank burning for that. Which was the main reason they were weak before the patch as well. Now that burning is even better the gap has increased by dramatic proportions. This really shouldnt be surprising to anyone. Reaper may catch up a bit if dhuumfire stacks enough burn with reaper shroud.

I can see why epidemic was capped at 25 stacks tho, it will be too op lol just imagine 5 necros in dungeons @ 25 stacks of condis, easily 1500 stacks of conditions w/o cap

Well in group content I think condi necro is buffed due to 25vuln, 25might, 25burning, 25 poison from other classes.

For solo, I think for ascended user, it’s a buff. For exotic sinister, probably slight buff or neutral due to the benefit from better blood line. For exotic rabid/carrion/rampager, probably slight nerf.

I have to say the original bleed formula got me excited. I was wrong thinking Anet would give such love to necro.

Kevin.5980:

I can see why epidemic was capped at 25 stacks tho, it will be too op lol just imagine 5 necros in dungeons @ 25 stacks of condis, easily 1500 stacks of conditions w/o cap

it wont help necros in pve imo. bosses are usually alone, and if they spawn mobs, those die in a instant, giving no time to cast epidemic on them. andi f you think about it, there is nothing op in pve. mobs dont complain.

anet shouldnt nerf burning, that will just pull back condis to where they were.
they cant buff bleeding cuz all the pvp community will cry.
maybe increasing the stacks and attack speed of scepter help ?, 1 stack, 2 stacks ,2 stacks + poison on auto attack and 3 or 4 extra stacks on all the other skills ? (talking about necro here, all those proffesion with burning dont get anything, cuz burning)

All what we need right now is ability that doubles conditions on target.

I think scepters when traited doubles the amount of bleeding stacks might do the trick

But again everything works in pve, as comparing to previous patch, i dont really think it hurts necro that much as the topic suggest. The main difference is that people comparing necro with other profession, which seemingly made necros look weak, but if we were to compare to previous patch, i think we gotten more viable in dungeons tho.

Condition Necromancer feels weak and useless, now. Running zerker is the only option.

The problem was not Necro condi damage but every other profession once players realized the missing cap could massively boost damage essentially for free.

Well, I kinda agree sadly that necro condi is worse than before.. except that the full 3 trait-lines is a buff in terms of more survivability, or options to play around with.

Worse as in — on the new formula of bleeding (nerf), and duration it gave (longggg~). What kitten on it more is that — staff got nerfed (mark of blood), possibly (imo) due to the grandmaster trait — lingering curse. Where they think that 2x the duration is OP, hence changed the formula for bleeding, and reduce 1 stack from staff bleeding.

It is bad, from a necro who main a staff >.>.. it’s forcing me to go scepter and lingering curse to make it worthwhile. since firstly, staff bleeding nerf. Secondly, bleeding formula nerf, which makes dmg even lower than before (despite the cap increased to 1.5k), I’m doing lower dmg and taking longer to kill enemies like people in this thread has mentioned…

In overall, what do we gain when compared to others? (buff) Additionally, it’s bad to further include in nerfs. GG condition necro. I know the damage etc isn’t bad. But it just sadden me when it’s actually worse than before, and especially when it’s one of the lowest condition dmg when compared to other classes.

Necromancer players really liked squeezing out every bit of condition damage possible, even after all the condition nerfs, so the job’s condition damage potential was well balanced pre-patch; not so with other professions.

trait for fear damage and duration. the damage is excellent still. applying chill on blind helps from kittening everyone else off by doing this.

when reaper hits add the chill damage and we’ll be back above where we were before.

I have been doing ok with Condition damage with my necromancer. I hit a 8k bleed tick a couple of times. But normally cap out around 7k with 25 stacks of might.

http://imgur.com/Lpt7UYx

It’s no where near those crazy 20k burn pictures but its decent.

Azsune.7946:

I have been doing ok with Condition damage with my necromancer. I hit a 8k bleed tick a couple of times. But normally cap out around 7k with 25 stacks of might.

http://imgur.com/Lpt7UYx

It’s no where near those crazy 20k burn pictures but its decent.

The problem is, when you look at the ramp up time for this vs the ramp up of condi builds on other professions those numbers look extremely bad… :/

Yeah 20 seconds to start doing decent damage is a pretty long time to start to do decent numbers. Takes about the second blood is power to get close to 6k ticks at 25 might stacks and 25 vuln.

One thing this build has that power doesn’t… Epidemic. Did a fractal with full conditions and just hitting it on trash felt so good.

Its like no one on these forums has even tried buffed Dhuumfire. I’m getting 2k burning damage while in Shroud, plus the torment, plus condies I’ve already dumped on them. With epidemic in WvW and signet of spite it massacres 5 targets at once.

Azsune.7946:

Yeah 20 seconds to start doing decent damage is a pretty long time to start to do decent numbers. Takes about the second blood is power to get close to 6k ticks at 25 might stacks and 25 vuln.

One thing this build has that power doesn’t… Epidemic. Did a fractal with full conditions and just hitting it on trash felt so good.

Yeah but propably cause there were other classes stacking condis on your target :< I really hope Anet adresses this, they seem to have done a good job with finding the actual problems so far. I’m literally impressed. Instead of going “World bosses melt? Let’s nerf condi into the farthest corner unviability again!” They went “huhm…we gave the players a kittenton of more damage without adjustung boss hp and condi resistance… let’s crank that up!”. Sure, they overshot it on some bosses (Tequatl is BS currently) but I’m relatively sure they’ll adress it pretty soon. And who knows, if Teq could actually be crit anywhere properly like the patchnotes say, it might actually not be needed to reduce its hp.

Cecilia.5179:

condition necromancer is unviable in all game modes now. Kind of like Power Ranger pre rapid fire patch.

there is absolutely no truth whatsoever in this comment

Ravezaar.4951:

Cecilia.5179:

condition necromancer is unviable in all game modes now. Kind of like Power Ranger pre rapid fire patch.

there is absolutely no truth whatsoever in this comment

If you don’t count “Reflect Necro” as a condition user this is fairly accurate if you directly compare it to condition builds from the other professions. For instance Engineer : 1/5th the ramp up, up to 6 times the damage. Yep, it is totally fair.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Nemesis.8593:

You guys mind if i join the conversation ?

Epidemic is now the highest hitting skill in the game, period…

lol…

Epidemic is now the highest hitting skill in the game, with these following qualifications:

1. Only in zergs of greater than 10 people
2. Only against targets that last longer than 45 seconds
3. Only against adds, does 0 damage to main targets

I suppose it is marginally useful for lane fights like VW, but it does 0 damage at most boss fights…. hardly the “hardest hitting skill in the game, full stop”

Zerkermeta theorycrafters have done void calculations since the beginning, and most people agree to that… why can’t we do the same about epidemic, especially since it’s not in a void anymore.

It’s more likely to a best scenario epidemic on a fractal boss to kill it’s adds then it is to have full permabuffs/debuffs and 100% DPS uptime…

So yes… it is the hardest hitting skill in the game.

Shiki.7148:

Nemesis.8593:

You guys mind if i join the conversation ?

I’ve seen a lot of hard cold facts and accurate calculations around this thread, yet all of them are relative to/compared to the current berserker meta which is possible only in the context of corner stacking & bad AI/gameplay design.

In other words… did you guys honestly expected condition damage to be transformed into something that would match corner stacking bursting ?… This is not CS to one shot each other all over the place…

It would be wise to take into consideration how these changes will interact with proper PvE content, which we may get in HoT.

Conditionmancer was always about AoE, epidemic was always the highest hitting skill in the game in theory and with the removal condition stacks, it just became practice…

Epidemic is now the highest hitting skill in the game, period…

power builds – single target/AoE burst
condition builds – single target sustain/massive AoE sustain
… and thus, we all have our place in the game #balance

Actually I have to disagree this time. Necro PvE condibuilds are bad. Engi and Guardian PvE condi-builds are pretty decent to frigging strong. For one because burning is ridiculously OP right now, and additionally Necros just apply bleed and poison way to slowly compared to other classes getting 6 or more stacks of bleed with a single skill. And then bleeding was hit with the nerfbat too while poison damage was made way too low… If the balance on applied stacks per profession and bleed vs poison vs burndamage was actually good, Condis would be viable in PvE.

Like i said… “in THIS PvE…” which we can all agree is pretty not good… it would be absurd to even consider they would make the biggest balance change since the beginning aimed at THIS crap PvE.

I believe it is the first stage of what is to come…

Azsune.7946:

I have been doing ok with Condition damage with my necromancer. I hit a 8k bleed tick a couple of times. But normally cap out around 7k with 25 stacks of might.

http://imgur.com/Lpt7UYx

It’s no where near those crazy 20k burn pictures but its decent.

Those 20K burns are more single target then AoE… your job there is not to match that, is to spread that…
Balance = all classes are equivalent, not the same.

PS: epidemic spreads conditions from target and use your condition damage and duration, regardless of who applied it… you can even spread power build bleeds and still melt everything in AoE.

Shiki.7148:

Ravezaar.4951:

Cecilia.5179:

condition necromancer is unviable in all game modes now. Kind of like Power Ranger pre rapid fire patch.

there is absolutely no truth whatsoever in this comment

If you don’t count “Reflect Necro” as a condition user this is fairly accurate if you directly compare it to condition builds from the other professions. For instance Engineer : 1/5th the ramp up, up to 6 times the damage. Yep, it is totally fair.

I dont care that other profession can dish out Condis faster and say more burns then a Necro, master of Conditions dosent meen fastest way to 25+ Bleeds aso… it meens Mastering/Controlling Conditions back and forth…. “reflect” is a bad choice since we are actually the only class ingame that lacks just that type of skill.

However Corrupting and Controlling, sending conditions back that were originally put on you by the enemy that is Master of Conditions and necro still dominate that part of the game. Yesterday a Ranger useing Gladomers build got killed by me useing only Signet of Plague and the trait Plague Sending, now tell me then how it mattered if he sent more Condis to me faster ? In PvE it may still be bad but imho its not worse then before.

Ravezaar.4951:

Shiki.7148:

Ravezaar.4951:

Cecilia.5179:

condition necromancer is unviable in all game modes now. Kind of like Power Ranger pre rapid fire patch.

there is absolutely no truth whatsoever in this comment

If you don’t count “Reflect Necro” as a condition user this is fairly accurate if you directly compare it to condition builds from the other professions. For instance Engineer : 1/5th the ramp up, up to 6 times the damage. Yep, it is totally fair.

I dont care that other profession can dish out Condis faster and say more burns then a Necro, master of Conditions dosent meen fastest way to 25+ Bleeds aso… it meens Mastering/Controlling Conditions back and forth…. “reflect” is a bad choice since we are actually the only class ingame that lacks just that type of skill.

However Corrupting and Controlling, sending conditions back that were originally put on you by the enemy that is Master of Conditions and necro still dominate that part of the game. Yesterday a Ranger useing Gladomers build got killed by me useing only Signet of Plague and the trait Plague Sending, now tell me then how it mattered if he sent more Condis to me faster ? In PvE it may still be bad but imho its not worse then before.

Yeah I agree that the transfers and corruptions are amazing, and if you counted that as a condition build (that funnily enough doesn’t need a single point in condition damage), then yes, our PvP condi is pretty good. I just wish they would change transfers to be like this : “Scales either with the appliers or your condition damage, whichever one is higher”. It wouldn’t change anything when going against eg. Condi Engis but would help against Warriors that just apply bleeding cause their skills say so, and have no condi damage at all. Currently it is literally only a counter build, which is perfectly fine, but the second you have only power-types on the enemy team you are completely and utterly boned. With it then scaling off your condi damage you would at least have decent options. Still worse because they won’t apply nearly as many conditions, but they’d at least still hit for a good amount.

Ravezaar.4951:

Shiki.7148:

Ravezaar.4951:

Cecilia.5179:

condition necromancer is unviable in all game modes now. Kind of like Power Ranger pre rapid fire patch.

there is absolutely no truth whatsoever in this comment

If you don’t count “Reflect Necro” as a condition user this is fairly accurate if you directly compare it to condition builds from the other professions. For instance Engineer : 1/5th the ramp up, up to 6 times the damage. Yep, it is totally fair.

I dont care that other profession can dish out Condis faster and say more burns then a Necro, master of Conditions dosent meen fastest way to 25+ Bleeds aso… it meens Mastering/Controlling Conditions back and forth…. “reflect” is a bad choice since we are actually the only class ingame that lacks just that type of skill.

However Corrupting and Controlling, sending conditions back that were originally put on you by the enemy that is Master of Conditions and necro still dominate that part of the game. Yesterday a Ranger useing Gladomers build got killed by me useing only Signet of Plague and the trait Plague Sending, now tell me then how it mattered if he sent more Condis to me faster ? In PvE it may still be bad but imho its not worse then before.

Borrowing someone else’s conditions does not mean you have a viable condition build. You can run the counter condi build in full zerker and still counter other condi builds. Running a counter build in wvw is a joke because it leaves you unprepared for any situation that you do not counter an opponent. In PvP, beating a condi build that is weak to condis is still done better by another condi build that also pressures non condi builds, even if it is more difficult. In PvE, there’s literally no point in transfers when having your own dps is so much better.
By itself, a condition necromancer throws out a mediocre amount of bleeds and poison. By itself, a condi ranger/engi throws out a very large amount of bleeds/burns/poison. Part of viability is opportunity cost, and when other classes do your job better, there is no reason for anybody to take you.
So I could just say, “there is absolutely no truth whatsoever in this comment,” but it is your opinion. If you deny that necromancer is weak as a condi class, we will not get help, and we may even get nerfed when the other powerful condi builds get nerfed, taking our only niche and making us worse at what we’re already bad at.

Yeah, this whole thing is ludicrous seeing as Woodwnpotatoes Incineration Elementalist can burn for 18k per tick and be immune to condis

Shiki.7148:

Azsune.7946:

Yeah 20 seconds to start doing decent damage is a pretty long time to start to do decent numbers. Takes about the second blood is power to get close to 6k ticks at 25 might stacks and 25 vuln.

One thing this build has that power doesn’t… Epidemic. Did a fractal with full conditions and just hitting it on trash felt so good.

Yeah but propably cause there were other classes stacking condis on your target :< I really hope Anet adresses this, they seem to have done a good job with finding the actual problems so far. I’m literally impressed. Instead of going “World bosses melt? Let’s nerf condi into the farthest corner unviability again!” They went “huhm…we gave the players a kittenton of more damage without adjustung boss hp and condi resistance… let’s crank that up!”. Sure, they overshot it on some bosses (Tequatl is BS currently) but I’m relatively sure they’ll adress it pretty soon. And who knows, if Teq could actually be crit anywhere properly like the patchnotes say, it might actually not be needed to reduce its hp.

What do you mean cause there were others stacking on the target?? When fighting a boss you can’t epidemic to spread the bleeds to other targets normally. On a single target fight by the time you get to the 2nd blood is power on your own accord you should have 6k ticks.

InsidiousWaffle.7086:

Yeah, this whole thing is ludicrous seeing as Woodwnpotatoes Incineration Elementalist can burn for 18k per tick and be immune to condis

Is there a video of this? I can’t get any condi’s to stack anywhere near that