Guild Wars 2

runeblade.7514:

Player minions.

good idea, you can transform dead players into minions for x sec and the player(ally) control the minions, he can’t wp and if he go to far he fall dead.

Knighthonor.4061:

Honestly I prefer something brand new in terms of minions from this elite.

Something with a unique auto attack that does something useful.

Prefer if it was a Minion that healed nearby allies as it attacks.

AOE healer minion
My idea exactly !

Well the more i think about it i come to the conclusion that there should be another effect to the shout or a very special minion that gets summoned. In the current way it works its rather hard to use it right.

With Death Nova the minions help us even if they get instagibbed in an AOE cleave, which will most likely be the case if we manage to get 5 enemys within 600 range. However without it, almost every minion will be rather useless in such a scenario, due to the amount of passive cleaves and AOE fields. You can buff the minions base damage and use, sure, but lets say you play against a mesmer with clones, or a ranger, or even a thief with a rock dog the minions would be very strong if they are balanced around surviving a fitting time in a 5 target scenario.

Even then you have to take into account the minion master traits. If the base minions are stronger, the traits improving minions will also make them much stronger as well.

Minions in their current way dont do much in terms of utility without the activation skill, a cripple and projectile finishers at most and thats it.

I’d either add a second effect to the shout itself that is not reliant on Minion traits or create a new kind of minion for this shout that gives some utility besides pure dps. This could either be a on minion creation effect , a on death effect, or a frequent effect with an ICD. The Devs could go crazy here, a minion that spawns a projectile reflecting shield upon its creation, a minion that heales all surrounding allies upon death, a special kind of bloodfiend that sucks up a single projectile at a time from mid air with an ICD, a fleshreaver that charges up its sword with every successfull strike, once it gets killed it drops its sword and the player or allies can pick it up and gain a benefit depending on how much it got charged up. If thats to crazy they could add a minion that redirects some damage the reaper takes to itself, or some other passive effect.

Last way could be to merge the shouth with another one.

Anyway id like to have my Fleshreaver or Aatxe pretty please.

Nibi.3572:

Why not have it raise skeletons?! or thralls

i don’t know I really don’t like any of the current minions

Because Necromancer in GW2 lore no longer deal with undead. Besides that wouldnt go down well with the Chinese version of the game which is already doing poorly.

Bhawb.7408:

I think Jagged Horrors are fine if they reduced the base CD of the shout a bit. The problem is all the minions that really work passively would be REALLY strong. Flesh Golem is too much, as is Blood Fiend, but Bone Minions are too weak, as are Flesh Wurms, because of no secondary actives. Bone Fiend and Shadow Fiends might work at the current CD, or Jagged Horror on say a 30s CD.

Agreed. Maybe Shadow Fiends can spawn use their attack and inflict blind and after that they just die? Would synergies well with Reaper trait line and Death Nova. Only problem I see with Shadow Fiends is they can’t stack blind only the duration which would be a waste if they all go to one enemy just to stack a super long blind that with 1 auto gets cleared lol.

Side note: i’d really like this minion skill to be used as cannon fodder more then anything else. Really want to make a bomber MM.

Side side note (lol): Something else I liked was in page 1 of this thread Rym suggested making Rise! summon 2 or 3 minion baseline instead of the by how many players are hit by the shout. I like this idea too. 3 summons with Rise! plus 2 bone minions all going booooooom! I like that idea a lot.

Actually thinking about it. I think it would be better to just put a new minion type on this skill. Minions that cleave on their attacks? Shambling horrors? Vampiric horrors?

Knighthonor.4061:

Nibi.3572:

Why not have it raise skeletons?! or thralls

i don’t know I really don’t like any of the current minions

Because Necromancer in GW2 lore no longer deal with undead. Besides that wouldnt go down well with the Chinese version of the game which is already doing poorly.

The chinese version is going bad because of the limitations imposed on them by the government and the ridiculous prices on their gemstore. A decent chunk of chinese players play in US/EU servers.

Necromancers generally never raise skeletons or intact corpses because they respect the dead. Its a lore reason. The only exception is the Sylvari necro in the book (Killeen). But her companions were quite horrified when she did that. And she only did it because she was a young Sylvari and didnt really understand the concept of death and respect for those that have died. Also it was kind of a dire situation they were in.

What if, what you summoned with “Rise!” depended on how many targets you hit?

Like, the first two targets summoned Jagged Horrors (which, if this idea is terrible, I’d rather have beefier versions of these over anything else) the third and fourth target hit does a Bone Fiend (second best, cripple would help a lot with the slow Reaper) and if you hit five, you get a Flesh Golem (weaker version no knockdown charge and less damage per attack, but still cripples with each swing and gives life force on death)

Jagged horrors that dont degen health, recasting rise would kill off all existing jagged horrors and resummon a new one for each tarfet hit (maybe then they should not trigger death nova when rise is recast for balance reasons)

Actually thinking it over, I think a new minion type would work best. The problem with using current minions is that you end up being forced to balance the shout around them, instead of balancing the minions to suit the shout. If you create a new minion type then the minions themselves can be balanced in order to make sure that they aren’t too strong. It also means you can do unique things like minions that siphon HP for themselves, or inflict a certain condition (probably every X AAs), have finishers, etc.

Something ranged with some kind of finisher or condition via autos.

The coolest solution would be that it chains a new minion depending on how many enemies it hits.

1 = Jagged
2 = Bone Minion
3 = Shadow Fiend
4 = Bone Fiend
5 = Blood Fiend

That way the more target u hit the more powerful it becomes.

Definitely a bone minion. Putrid Explosion on death.

Bone fiends would be just fine. There largely unaffected by the ai issues. And there damage is decent as well.

Galk the Bloody.4629:

Here was my idea, Undead Crows. It would match the look and feel of the Reaper.

I think we have a winner. This fits so perfectly with the feel of the reaper they showed off and gives it a bit of “Look! I’m a Reaper MinionMaster!” not “I’m a MinionMaster with a Reaper skill.” I absolutely think this is the winning idea and it needed more love.

(IMHO: This minion should still die fast but to offset this it should have a strong attack such as a blind or multiple stacks of bleed. I know that sounds very strong but this minion being so weak will probably sometimes not even get this attack off. This also forces a bit of counter-play as well.)

New minion that is meant to die quickly and gives life force when it dies.

Jelzouki.4128:

ABSOLUTELY NO MINIONS.

At least not until they fix the responsiveness of the poor AI.

Actually jagged horrors were the one minions that suffer the least from buggy AI, surprisingly enough, which is why I think they should just keep the jagged horrors with a tiny hp buff so they don’t get chewed up by aoe before they ever get a single hit off

one that works

I can’t begin to theorycraft the mechanics of what the Rise! minion should do, but cosmetically I like both the shadowy crows idea mentioned above (ok, it was undead crows, but I’m loving the shadow effects) and what I’ve seen in a more generally focused thread, mini Liadris (or other shadow figures).

What would they do once summoned? I’m no game designer, I leave that to others

I think Shades would be perfect. They are just big enough to become fodder, in pvp would make it tough to target you with 5-6 shades running around you. Plus if they can all blind.

Then the 12 year old living inside of me want flesh golems like what traherne can do. that would just be funny

No minion will be good damage and no matter what minion is will be, I don’t think it will make this shout worth using instead of something else. I’d rather have something altogether different, like “Play dead!” that is an AOE knockback, and perhaps throws torment on enemies as well.

5 Fleshreavers – Just cause.

Well, Bone Fiends for example have decent damage (just about 200 DPS each), plus they’d provide a ton of finishers which is really nice, and they apply cripple every 10s. This is overall nice and works for any build, since it amplifies what you are already doing via combo fields.

As an example, if you are condi and have some poison fields, 5x bone fiends is 10 stacks of poison every 3 seconds, and the poison will last for 2s base. If you have dark fields down they deal around 2k extra damage (and heal themselves) every 3s on top of their passive damage. Through an Ice field they’d apply chill, fire = burning, etc. This makes them useful no matter what build uses them, plus they are the most reliable minion to use.

Bhawb.7408:

Well, Bone Fiends for example have decent damage (just about 200 DPS each), plus they’d provide a ton of finishers which is really nice, and they apply cripple every 10s. This is overall nice and works for any build, since it amplifies what you are already doing via combo fields.

As an example, if you are condi and have some poison fields, 5x bone fiends is 10 stacks of poison every 3 seconds, and the poison will last for 2s base. If you have dark fields down they deal around 2k extra damage (and heal themselves) every 3s on top of their passive damage. Through an Ice field they’d apply chill, fire = burning, etc. This makes them useful no matter what build uses them, plus they are the most reliable minion to use.

This or new AOE healer minions ( can be replaced by changing the vampiric master trait description with " minions attacks heal themselves and their master ".

FLESH REAVER would be an interesting choice…. it would fit the reaper’s theme of having demon minions help him take a soul back to the underworld as reapers do.

Right. So I don’t think some people understand the balance factor of this whole thing XD

I hear some people say Bone Fiends and some people say Shadow Fiends. There is no way Anet will allow you to get up to five bone fiends or shadow fiends when we have an actual minion skill that provides us with just one…… you might as well be asking to get five flesh golems.

I think if not jagged horrors they should be a new minion.

My suggestion(s) would be

Bone Shakers: bone hands that burst out of the ground (almost like scepter 3) and grab hold of the enemies they spawned next to, immobilizing and deal damage every second. Since they are minions they could be destroyed and end immobilized effects much like binding roots.

Shadow Wargs: These would be along the nightmare type (shadow fiend) vein of minions. I thought about a “pack” type of minion and figured the wargs would do nicely and could just use a nightmarish / dark incorporeal makeover.

TheDevice.2751:

Right. So I don’t think some people understand the balance factor of this whole thing XD

I hear some people say Bone Fiends and some people say Shadow Fiends…. uhhh…. There is no way Anet will allow you to get up to five bone fiends or shadow fiends when we have an actual minion skill that provides us with just one…… you might as well be asking to get five flesh golems.

I think if not jagged horrors they should be a new minion.

My suggestion(s) would be

Bone Shakers: bone hands that burst out of the ground (almost like scepter 3) and grab hold of the enemies they spawned next to, immobilizing and deal damage every second. Since they are minions they could be destroyed and end immobilized effects much like binding roots.

Shadow Wargs: These would be along the nightmare type (shadow fiend) vein of minions. I thought about a “pack” type of minion and figured the wargs would do nicely and could just use a nightmarish / dark incorporeal makeover.

yeah i really like the idea of the arms coming up it fits more anyway and it would be a fun mechanic.. it could be that either you interact(F) with it or you kill it to get lose

What about 5 minions that are extremely weak and don’t deal much damage but when they die, they explode and do a lot of damage (either poison or direct).

You can’t actually manually detonate them so your opponent is placed in an awkward situation where they don’t want to accidentally explode a minion over their face if they Cleave or AoE it trying to attack you.

guardian.6489:

What about 5 minions that are extremely weak and don’t deal much damage but when they die, they explode and do a lot of damage (either poison or direct).

You can’t actually manually detonate them so your opponent is placed in an awkward situation where they don’t want to accidentally explode a minion over their face if they Cleave or AoE it trying to attack you.

It’s called jagged horror + Death Nova.

I’d really like Flesh Reavers… need to be very weak Fleshreavers though.

Bone fiend or Blood fiend

I’d love bone fiends for the dps.. but maybe spirit bone fiends like the arch divner in fractals.. or shadow fiends and let them blind so we can do more chill

Yeah for balance reasons it really does have to be jagged horrors or a new minion tbh. Id prefer some kind of cleaving minion because its a skill which gets it max use when you are dealing with 5 enemies. So ideally you want minions that can help with groups.

Okay, two options. First, have the shout create a new minion, like the conclusion others have come to.

Second option: the minions release scale with the number of enemies hit

Scenario 1, depending on the number of enemies hit you get…
1) Jagged Horror
2) Bone Minion
3) Blood or Shadow Fiend
4) Bone Fiend
5) Flesh Golem

So you only get a single Flesh Golem if you hit five enemies with the shout, along with a full set of the others.

Scenario 2:
1) Jagged Horror
2) Jagged Horror
3) Bone Minion
4) Bone Minion
5) Bone Fiend or Flesh Golem

Trying to not step on the toes of the other utilities as much, here’s a toned down version of the same idea.

The problem with that is that single shout is better than any regular minion summon skill when dealing with multiple opponents.

But the MM weakness currently is the cleave that comes from fighting multiple opponents. Absurdly so in fact.

Yeah thats why it needs to be different to other minion skills. It cant be too strong to always replace one of them. But it needs to have value of its own. So weaker minions which cleave/aoe to deal with groups. And can still be used as death nova fodder.

If they are set on only using already existing minions then it has to be all jagged horrors. Or all jagged horrors except for the 5th one being a bone minion. That way you never get equal or more of the same type of minion than from a regular minion skill.

Lily.1935:

I’d like to see Shambling horrors.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Animate_Shambling_Horror

I very much agree, Jagged Horrors are too weak for that cooldown, but a higher health version of the jagged horror that summons a jagged horror when it dies is a perfect solution.

Twice the Death Nova, twice the duration/survivability for the minions. Without it being a type of minions that normally has an active skill you would miss out on.

Jagged horrors are fine if they have a movement bonus like swiftness.

I dislike Jagged Horrors because they are worthless unless you have Death Nova, and that shouldn’t be a requirement to use the skill.

Bhawb.7408:

I dislike Jagged Horrors because they are worthless unless you have Death Nova, and that shouldn’t be a requirement to use the skill.

The bleeds can be useful, if they actually land. It is too easy to kite them.

A projectile minion could be good but bone fiend and wurm are kind of strong and the attacks are too slow, assuming their health decays within 5 to 10 seconds.

Minions are not a very good option with AI as it is but the numbers of horrors help if they are fast enough to close the gap.

Trap minions would work, too. If minions applied chill with condition damage instead of bleed…

Shiki.7148:

guardian.6489:

What about 5 minions that are extremely weak and don’t deal much damage but when they die, they explode and do a lot of damage (either poison or direct).

You can’t actually manually detonate them so your opponent is placed in an awkward situation where they don’t want to accidentally explode a minion over their face if they Cleave or AoE it trying to attack you.

It’s called jagged horror + Death Nova.

I’d really like Flesh Reavers… need to be very weak Fleshreavers though.

There’s no reason the effects couldn’t stack.

Anchoku.8142:

The bleeds can be useful, if they actually land. It is too easy to kite them.

The bleeds aren’t bad, but they aren’t enough to synergize well imo.

Anchoku.8142:

A projectile minion could be good but bone fiend and wurm are kind of strong and the attacks are too slow, assuming their health decays within 5 to 10 seconds.

I think the best option is a new type of minion that has some type of finisher, is either ranged or has a 300+ range leap like the hounds do, applies some condition on AA, has decaying HP, and gives LF on death.

If they don’t live too long, AI issues are limited, as they will be summoned in combat and immediately be aggro’d on the enemy, no pathing issues to worry about, plus a leap or ranged AA allows for less issues with pathing, and means you don’t need a build that is super reliant on controlling the enemy to allow minions uptime, like a more proper MM build is.

Finishers allow them better synergy with whatever you are doing, since whatever fields you are using they will combo with; this also adds a level of extra play, so that you can add synergy. So if you have poison fields they can add poison/weakness, ice field gives ice armor/chill, it is a great way for the minions to be useful no matter what build is using them.

A condition on AA, either every AA or every 2-3 AAs depending on the condition strength, allows them further help for some builds. I would stray away from bleeds, poison, fear, immobilize, blind, burning, and vuln, as they are either too strong, stack too much with what we already have and so don’t provide anything special, or shouldn’t be easily accessed like this. Torment/confusion would work well for a damaging condition, since they would help cover our bleeds, weakness is a good utility condition, cripple/chill are nice snares.

I would also say the minions should deal relatively low passive DPS, to make sure not much power is tied up by their damage, and they are more utility based. The decaying HP also helps limit power a little bit, and means that as they die in between fights they won’t have so many AI issues. Plus with LF on death, this becomes a decent way to get some LF between and during fights, if they die quickly at the very least you still get LF out of them, though it might be more prudent to have them give 5% LF on death, instead of the full 10%.

Overall, I do think the best option is to make new minions so that those minions can be specifically balanced for this skill alone, and custom made to suit it, and these minions should suit all builds, not just MM ones.

Achrisos.1360:

The coolest solution would be that it chains a new minion depending on how many enemies it hits.

1 = Jagged
2 = Bone Minion
3 = Shadow Fiend
4 = Bone Fiend
5 = Blood Fiend

That way the more target u hit the more powerful it becomes.

I like this idea.

Let’s start some nostalgia…

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Shambling_Horror

Triple the amount of jagged horrors and increase their health a bit and it will be fine

Would it be bad to say screw minion spawns and give Tainted Shackles on every target hit?

I also like the Shambling Horror idea. Spawn a minion, that spawns another when dying. Kinda like the Chronophantasma trait… but only kinda^^

Maybe something tasteful like this:

http://image.blingee.com/images18/content/output/000/000/000/72d/688542779_969488.gif?4

Or possibly the demon hipster chicks from Scott Pilgrim:

https://33.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lko88nzJoy1qj9usao1_500.gif

So they could do one of 4 different things.

• Increase the number of Jagged Horrors. This could work. 10 Jagged horrors suddenly sounds much better. But its not very interesting.

• Use an existing Minion Type. I really like this idea only if it counts as a minion of that type to combo with their respective active. This would be super fun to use. Having 7 Bone Minions would be absolutely epic and would make me build a minion build pretty quickly. But would it be way too much? It could very well be. And how strange would it be if it summoned up to 5 flesh wurms? And of course 5 flesh golems would be way too much.

• Randomize the minions it summons. This could be interesting but I’m not as big of a fan of this since necromancers aren’t random. And I think that should be an important fact about them.

• A new minion type completely. I think this is the best possible option for the necromancer. Summoning Shambling horrors seems like it would be the best option. Make it so they don’t degenerate, are a bit stronger then jagged horrors, spawn a Jagged horror on death and cap the number of them you can have between 5-8 as to prevent abuse. I’d like to have 8 so I can have a reason to use this on cool down if some are still alive, but if the new ones killed the old ones and spawned jagged horrors that could be good too.