Guild Wars 2

Bhawb.7408:

Actually, with healing power you can have WoB heal other classes for nearly twice what their own heal will do

If they stand around in it long enough to matter. And last time i checked, the major defense in this game was not a passive one that allow you to stand your ground, but a active one that send you rolling across the floor every 5-10 seconds (depending on you having vigor up or not).

Major defense in this game is the proactive kind, yes. But he was saying healing power was useless on necros; it isn’t. It requires specific builds, but it has uses if you want to use it.

digiowl.9620:

weakness is cool, but not something necros can spread like candy.

So…how is it that with no condition duration bonus my target has weakness at least 75% of the time? As a side-effect to my main goal of bleed stacking? And this is on groups?

You name it with conditions aside from Burning or massive confusion stacking, we can do it as a necro. Yeah, we can even cause confusion via combo with ourself.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

digiowl.9620:

weakness is cool, but not something necros can spread like candy.

So…how is it that with no condition duration bonus my target has weakness at least 75% of the time? As a side-effect to my main goal of bleed stacking? And this is on groups?

because you are running off hand dagger, a weapon that favors bleed stacking necromancers, and has the one weapon skill we have that provide weakness.

Dagger off-hand isn’t exactly rare, every condition build, and even some non-condition ones have it.

Kristine Heath.1483:

they offer less damage, less utility, no group buffs, and their minions cause more harm than good… whats the point of playing a necro over these other light armor classes? no one would choose a necro for their dungeon over a mes or an ele.

Sounds like a ranger trolling. I would agree with DPS and no DIRECT group buffs, the rest bullkitten. First off – minions more harm than good: in what sense, flesh golem offers a KD attack with 40s CD, the wraith a blind attack with a *20*s CD and the flesh wurm provides teleportation and the best part – you can run with 0 minions esp in a power build. Same cant be said about ranger.

More importantly Necros have their niche in WvW in leading and breaking zergs with Plague, flushing out thieves and mesmers and Marking for Siege Defense and Offense. Only thing I complain about is the crappy DPS even after Bleed is Power is applied (aka 10 stacks of might).

My Necro provides a Water Field too in PVE with a Healing Pod.

digiowl.9620:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

digiowl.9620:

weakness is cool, but not something necros can spread like candy.

So…how is it that with no condition duration bonus my target has weakness at least 75% of the time? As a side-effect to my main goal of bleed stacking? And this is on groups?

because you are running off hand dagger, a weapon that favors bleed stacking necromancers, and has the one weapon skill we have that provide weakness.

Yet the uptime on said weakness is quite good. We can make sure anyone we want is weakened when we want them so without much effort. AoE perma-weakness is rather easy for us to do.

Sounds like we can hand it out like candy without any issue.

Not sure why there are so many haters from other professions here talking down about necro’s…. sounds like a case of envy tbh lol.

“whatever you can do I can do better!” sticks tongue out I like when the forums feels like elementary school at recess all over again.

This discussion very much reminds me of the old Warhammer Online Swordmaster forums. A class which was terribly balanced and flawed at its core, yet had a group of very vocal advocates.

I do not deny the fact that you probably can kill pretty much everything in PvE if you’re running with a decent group and you will not fail simply because you’re bringing a necro.

Playing one though requires you to jump through a million hoops, only to get the same outcome a different class can get with ease.

There literally is nothing a necromancer can bring to the group that’s unique to the class, or make it stand out among the rest.

The notion of “we can deal with conditions like no one else” makes me especially laugh. We have the extremely inflexible wells on (if not traited) long cooldowns. A warrior will simply bring “Shake it off” and is a hundred times more effective. And converting the boons on the mob into conditions is a nice gimmick, but nothing else.
If we had a realiable way to really stack vulnerability to high amounts, that might be desireable.

As it stands the class feels as cumbersome and rough around the edges as it did in beta.

But then again, class balance in PvE is just off right now. The Warrior/Mesmer/Guardian meta is just too strong and easy for almost every situation, at least in comparison to everything else.

Focus 4 + axe auto attacks = 20 stacks of vulnerability easily. I’ve accidently hit vulnerability stack caps when I use WoS, Focus 4, and axe at the same time.

And the fact you said that we feel cumbersome like in beta… lol? You do realize in beta that necromancer’s were unbalanced, right? Lich in a power build was instant win in any fight. 5v1? Pop lich, hit huge autos every second and watch everyone run in terror only to still die. Minion builds could 3v1 in beta with impunity, and DS was insane; there was a guy in the beta tournaments hosted by ANet that would consistently destroy people with DS tanking and lich form. It was so bad that a lot of people feel it is the reason ANet is so cautious about buffing us.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Putrid_Mark
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Plague_Signet
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deathly_Swarm
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Consume_Conditions

Very rarely do u or ur party have conditions and no enemies around. If I am not mistaken, plague signet SHOULD be fixed.

Wells and signets can be traited to 48s cd. They transfer/convert more than 2 conditions and do not require special runes.

What does necro bring in PVE? AOE damage at the very least, marks for CC. Can even be traited for shorter CD. And it is a very survivable class, which means less rezzing required.

TBH, I love my necro for RP reasons and prefer my mesmer over my other 5 professions but it isnt as annoying/broken as ranger (the only profession I will never play).

Bhawb.7408:

I can outbunker everything except grenade spam engi’s and trap rangers. CC isn’t a big deal when I can DS tank your hundred blades. Especially since while you sit there trying to smash my face in, my minions are definitely smashing yours in. Yes CC can be an issue, but I have never been CC’ed enough by a single person to make it a big issue.

also from what i’ve seen in spvp necros make better support than solo players – they don’t that burst – and their roles as support is also very strong in dealing with mobs / bosses that either give themselves boons or give conditions in pve

However, recently in hotjoin (and one reason I hate hotjoin), I have been the ball in an intricate game of pinball using god-knows-what CC chains. All I know is I walk into some crapstorm of CC and by the time its over I’m staring at the sky.

Oh sorry that may have been me and my warrior with hammer, mace shield :P

digiowl.9620:

Saintly.8062:

Red Falcon.8257:

Necro = Low DPS, shallow support

Multiple darkness fields (lifesteal/blindness), poison, weakness, condition control…

And the only really effective blindness in this game is the pulsating field kind. And necromancers have exactly one of those (on a minute long cooldown). the rest will counter exactly one attack and only stack in duration.

Poison is only meaningful in PVP, as mobs rarely if ever heal.

weakness is cool, but not something necros can spread like candy.

Poison is the hardest hitting condition next to burning per tick unless you max bleed stacks, it all adds up fast, so don’t discount poison in pve. Several necro builds can keep near-perma weakness on, so you’re wrong there. Throw in epidemic and now you have aoe weakness.

The problem is, a setup of power warriors and mesmers will absolutely outperform any condition build. It is fast, upfront and does not need any time at all to kick in.
And the less time you spent in the battle, the lesser the chances are of somebody dying or getting downed.

The lack of a viable power weapon and the lacking utilities are biggest gripe with the class right now.

Mind you, i’m talking about PvE. But i can’t think of a single situation there, where i would be happy to have a necro in my group instead of another class.

I can drop a guardian, ele, or Mesmer bunker faster than any other class in the game. I do hate Grenade spamming eng bunkers, and the condition trap rangers with their elite ready to go, but outside of that the rest drop fast.

I can hold my own for a few minutes using bunkers, with only the two mentioned classes above or that freaking treb giving me problems.

Why a necro? I have an elementalist and a mesmer, but people say they are overpowered so I prefer to melt faces with necro instead, just feels better somehow.

Necros have corrupt boon and spectral grasp, very cool abilities. I find I have more area control with necros, where the others have higher mobility. Many chills. Its a matter of playing the class for what it is and not trying to play it as something else.

Really, find friends to play with if somebody is silly/close-minded enough to reject you because you play Necromancer. In fact, the game was developed so no class is essential to play any content, but many have been brainwashed over the years to love their “roles” and favorite classes too much.

No offense, but elitism can be horrible-people should be free to play with whichever Profession they want. Eff “efficiency” and speed runs, really.

I agree with Star Ace, unless you are in some highly competitive environment (like if you are taking tPvP seriously), or abusing a specific glitch, there really is no point.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

digiowl.9620:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

digiowl.9620:

weakness is cool, but not something necros can spread like candy.

So…how is it that with no condition duration bonus my target has weakness at least 75% of the time? As a side-effect to my main goal of bleed stacking? And this is on groups?

because you are running off hand dagger, a weapon that favors bleed stacking necromancers, and has the one weapon skill we have that provide weakness.

Yet the uptime on said weakness is quite good. We can make sure anyone we want is weakened when we want them so without much effort. AoE perma-weakness is rather easy for us to do.

Sounds like we can hand it out like candy without any issue.

Don’t forget the EB-on-Death Shroud trait. I don’t even stay in Death Shroud extensively anymore. Most times I pop in for EB, cast Dark Path for the chill, and pop back out again. 15s CD (internal CD) on a 10s Weakness + the offhand Dagger Enfeebling? Sounds like a pretty good deal to me.

Kilger.5490:

Why a necro? I have an elementalist and a mesmer, but people say they are overpowered so I prefer to melt faces with necro instead, just feels better somehow.

Necros have corrupt boon and spectral grasp, very cool abilities. I find I have more area control with necros, where the others have higher mobility. Many chills. Its a matter of playing the class for what it is and not trying to play it as something else.

Mesmers and Elementalists are not Overpowered. Mesmers are actually very well balanced. They are completely annoying and aggravating to face in pvp, and they have a pretty average skill level requirement. Their elite skills are the main issue they are brought in.

As for elementalists, the uproar is over a single spec that is now the number 1 spec used in WvWvW and tPvP. It’s called the 30 Arcana Spec and is extremely annoying because it jumps their mobility and evasion to ridiculous levels, allows them to swap attunements in under 10 seconds, and they can stack any stat they wish to either go direct damage, condition damage, healing, or survival without giving up the high mobility/endless vigor. I actually fought a Necro specced this way for a good 5 minutes when I was a bunker MM. He never killed me, and I had an impossible time getting him below 50 percent.

I eventually caught him on a mistake, and once he swapped out of water. I Golemed him than dropped him fast and hard, used blind to interrupt his knockdown, and chilled him so he couldn’t swap back to water. It was the one of the more annoying fights I have made. Everytime I had him to 50 percent, he dodge rolled in water for a crazy heal, and then popped another heal. D/D Arcana Attunement spec is very powerful.

I have a Necro over others cuz they are cool. Honestly, I have no problems with utility (but that’s cuz 2 of my utility skills are utility based for PvP), have absolutely no problem with dmg (even though I’m running a tanky build). Maybe no group buffs but they have lots of DEbuffs (which are just as powerful). As a necro, I can throw pretty good heals as well, on top of the debuffs, I’d say it’s pretty darn good. And minions, my friend, don’t cause more harm than good. You should try them some time before making that statement. Most of the time I go as a minion master and I haven’t found them to be counter productive at all… (personally, they are only kinda ugly but that’s another issue haha). I find them to be pretty strong in dungeons as well. Very good as a distraction, and dmg is quite nice too

Nay of the Ether.8913:

Poison is the hardest hitting condition next to burning per tick unless you max bleed stacks, it all adds up fast, so don’t discount poison in pve.

Poison and hard hitting? Seriously, poison is not hard hitting at all. Stacking in duration pretty much kills it damage wise, it can still have some situational uses for it’s utility, but that’s about it already.

It is roughly equal to 2 stacks of bleed, but won’t benefit from your dedicated +x% bleed duration runes and traits, and it is at even more danger to be “stolen” by someone else (thief dagger auto, other necros, and rangers mostly), so it will effectively have problems outdamaging even one stack of bleed.

Back on topic,

I do not deny the fact that you probably can kill pretty much everything in PvE if you’re running with a decent group and you will not fail simply because you’re bringing a necro.

Playing one though requires you to jump through a million hoops, only to get the same outcome a different class can get with ease.

There literally is nothing a necromancer can bring to the group that’s unique to the class, or make it stand out among the rest.

This guy got it right. You can of course feel free to enjoy your necro if you like the style, and for solo pve really anything works, but there is a reason none of the speedrun / high level fractal groups are holding their breath for a necro to join. The class has numerous shortcomings that you have to play around in order to be at least semi-effective. You can make up for that, but even if you excel at necro, you will still not catch up to the usefulness of others.

Necromancer is a rare breed. already you see few in pvp. beacuse they are so underpower..
The only necromancer i seen are the minion master . that got pets all over the field that just run around like bunnys and the condition managers. but low low damage even on them*and you need time. In a few months hardly anywone will play on them .
I love necro in gw1 but here is just a piece of joke.. im not going to be support that dont even got good cc(there are a few that can be counter very very easy..)
For exemple necro vs other class =
- necro vs thief = thief kills you in 3 sec with basilisc venom.
- necro vs guardian = guardian heals the hell out of you..
-necro vs eng = eng boons boons boons and your dead
-necro vs mesmer = who is the real one.. beacuse i got few aoe.. that can be dodge easy.
-necro vs ele = lets hope he did not see me..
- necro vs necro = lets hope hes is a mm and i got the condition build on me.
-necro vs ranger = with my range i will never get the ranger..
-necro vs warrior = lets hope hes not using sword or axe.. beacuse im dead if i stay long in fight with him if hes got Flurry/Eviscerate..O wait there is no burst damage on necro…

Hell Hex.7039:

Necromancer is a rare breed. already you see few in pvp. beacuse they are so underpower..
The only necromancer i seen are the minion master . that got pets all over the field that just run around like bunnys and the condition managers. but low low damage even on them*and you need time. In a few months hardly anywone will play on them .
I love necro in gw1 but here is just a piece of joke.. im not going to be support that dont even got good cc(there are a few that can be counter very very easy..)
For exemple necro vs other class =
- necro vs thief = thief kills you in 3 sec with basilisc venom.
- necro vs guardian = guardian heals the hell out of you..
-necro vs eng = eng boons boons boons and your dead
-necro vs mesmer = who is the real one.. beacuse i got few aoe.. that can be dodge easy.
-necro vs ele = lets hope he did not see me..
- necro vs necro = lets hope hes is a mm and i got the condition build on me.
-necro vs ranger = with my range i will never get the ranger..
-necro vs warrior = lets hope hes not using sword or axe.. beacuse im dead if i stay a long in fight with him if hes got Flurry/Eviscerate..O wait there is no burst damage on necro…

haha, I really hope you are trolling, because those are all horrible examples.

If you are losing to a ranger, warrior, non-grenade engineer, ele, mesmers, or guardian as a necro you shouldn’t be playing a necro. I find Mesmers to be a 50/50 shot. I find theives to be so easy since if they use venom I use Death shroud and fear them, and they can’t get back until Its’ over.

You should have changed from Necro vs to you vs.

Good Necro vs. Good thief – Depends on thief spec and whether they get Skull fear

Good Necro vs Good Guardian – Guardian dies, whimpering in his sleep about how op we are.

Good Necro vs. Good Ele – Brutal fight, whoever makes a mistake first loses.

Good Necro vs. Good Ranger – Depends on ranger spec, and who starts the fight

Good Necro vs. Good Engineer – If it’s a non-grenade engineer than Necro wins most of the time.

Good Necro vs. Good mesmer – It all comes down to DS vs. Shatter. 50/50 dice roll though condimancers are probably higher.

Good necro vs. Good Warrior – Necro in a landslide after you pickup the skid marks you left behind. A good Necro always packs a stun break, and you can ds fear their 100b. No reason you should lose.

I fixed it for you :P.

man you use a lote Death shroud , but in highlvl pvp , you dont got time to get it up fast beause they stay in packs. and burst you down very fast whene they see you

Hell Hex.7039:

man you use a lote Death shroud , but in highlvl pvp , you dont got time to get it up fast beause they stay in packs. and burst you down very fast whene they see you

I think the issue is you don’t use DS enough. I don’t sit in death shroud. And if 5 guys hit any single class they are going to die. YOu were giving 1v1 examples, and in high level tournament play they don’t burst you out of DS that fast, unless you are dumb enough to let it sit in it for a long time.

There isn’t a single class that can sit through a pack and live. I live on tarnished coast which is rank 6 in wvwvw. I run into zergs, and I run into little packs of 5. If my group of 5 faces another and we get broken into 2v1 or 1v1. I am not dieing as fast as the others.

Hell Hex.7039:

Necromancer is a rare breed. already you see few in pvp. beacuse they are so underpower..
The only necromancer i seen are the minion master . that got pets all over the field that just run around like bunnys and the condition managers. but low low damage even on them*and you need time. In a few months hardly anywone will play on them .
I love necro in gw1 but here is just a piece of joke.. im not going to be support that dont even got good cc(there are a few that can be counter very very easy..)
For exemple necro vs other class =
- necro vs thief = thief kills you in 3 sec with basilisc venom.
- necro vs guardian = guardian heals the hell out of you..
-necro vs eng = eng boons boons boons and your dead
-necro vs mesmer = who is the real one.. beacuse i got few aoe.. that can be dodge easy.
-necro vs ele = lets hope he did not see me..
-necro vs ranger = with my range i will never get the ranger..
-necro vs warrior = lets hope hes not using sword or axe.. beacuse im dead if i stay long in fight with him if hes got Flurry/Eviscerate..O wait there is no burst damage on necro…

You should talk about Necros once you actaully play as one.
As a Necro:
-Necro Vs. Thief – I can’t remember the last time I lost vs. a thief. Actaully, 2 days ago I versed a glass cannon Basilisc venom thief, destroyed her. Why? Cuz once you learn how your enemy works, you can easily beat them, and believe me, a Necro has more than one way to defend himself against a thief. (Marks, Death shroud, spectral walk, and flesh worm are just a few, to give you an idea).
-Guardians are pain, but their health pool is generally not too high. This means that they are susceptable to condition damage. A necro is good with condition damage.
- Last time i checked, boons don’t kill people, and last time I checked, a necro can rip off boons quite well.
-Mesmers are not a huge problem as a Necro, at least not for me. I’ve got 4 ways to get rid of conditions, 2 of which transfer conditions to the enemy. If the Mesmer is a Confusion mesmer, this means transfering confusion back. Having the trait for large marks with the staff does wonders against a mesmer. Believe you me.
- Necro vs Ranger… what? I dont want to comment haha… I admit rangers can be a pain, but it all depends on the situation and the build and the skill of both players.
-Necro vs. warrior – Warriors are one of the easiest for me to vs. as a Necro, especially if they are glass cannons. All you need to do is keep them off, which is not hard.

But personally, I just think you don’t know what you are talking about because every single thing you wrote is inaccurate or simply wrong.

Especially since necros counter the vast majority of warriors HARD. I can’t remember the last time I’ve lost to a warrior that didn’t have at least two other people with him. I don’t even try very hard against warriors.

In PvE, necros have minimal if any practical use. I’d rather have any other class. In PvP, idk maybe well bomb is good enough but I don’t think so. It’s really underpowered IMO.

MethaneGas.8357:

Hell Hex.7039:

Necromancer is a rare breed. already you see few in pvp. beacuse they are so underpower..
The only necromancer i seen are the minion master . that got pets all over the field that just run around like bunnys and the condition managers. but low low damage even on them*and you need time. In a few months hardly anywone will play on them .
I love necro in gw1 but here is just a piece of joke.. im not going to be support that dont even got good cc(there are a few that can be counter very very easy..)
For exemple necro vs other class =
- necro vs thief = thief kills you in 3 sec with basilisc venom.
- necro vs guardian = guardian heals the hell out of you..
-necro vs eng = eng boons boons boons and your dead
-necro vs mesmer = who is the real one.. beacuse i got few aoe.. that can be dodge easy.
-necro vs ele = lets hope he did not see me..
-necro vs ranger = with my range i will never get the ranger..
-necro vs warrior = lets hope hes not using sword or axe.. beacuse im dead if i stay long in fight with him if hes got Flurry/Eviscerate..O wait there is no burst damage on necro…

- Last time i checked, boons don’t kill people

Retaliation can kill you.

Topic is useless. U dont like necro – delete it and dont play. U like necro – play the class u`re given. “I`d prefer any other class…” – go and do it. Necro-players wont even notice that u prefer others. The idea is simple – we all have free choice, and no matter how many “haters” are here – coz u dont even change anything in gameplay ^ ^

Necros bring a reliable source of chill/weakness/cripple/fear (all builds) vulnerability (power builds) and poison (condition builds). The only issue is that though we bring all of the soft control conditions, the big ones (fear and chill) don’t really do much in PvE.

chill has no effect on boss mobs unless they have long cast animations (most bosses have instant casts), cripple isn’t really useful outside of weaker mobs, fear has the potential to spread mobs out and is nerfed against defiant, and weakness suffers from being partially PvP oriented.

Terok.7315:

Retaliation can kill you.

If retal kills you, than you should probably not be playing pvp. I guess boon stripping, and deathshroud aren’t on your keys. The main classes that have large access to retal are the main classes we destroy quickly and easily.

Guardians, Warriors, any engineer not named grenadier.

Terok.7315:

Retaliation can kill you.

Oh boo hoo. Cuz you know, retaliation does 5k dmg per tick. Yes, deadly. If you read closely, he wasn’t referring to retaliation, he was referring to the massive amount of boons that an engineer has, which can’t kill you alone, which was also what I was referring to. Now…back to the topic…

And yes, I agree with the poster above me, especially the boon stripping part, which you (Terok) nicely left out.