Guild Wars 2

having watched the PvP tourney, and how abjured lost, does this show that right now in organized 5v5s, necros have no place in PvP?
seeing how the enemy focus and tear down the necro in the finals so easily.

Well necro is better in real fights.

Junkpile.7439:

Well necro is better in real fights.

Elaborate. Do you mean zergefests as real fights?

EremiteAngel.9765:

having watched the PvP tourney, and how abjured lost, does this show that right now in organized 5v5s, necros have no place in PvP?
seeing how the enemy focus and tear down the necro in the finals so easily.

Necros have a place in PvP for sure. Only Necros and Mesmers can feasibly handle the boon spam most professions put out, and Mesmers are kinda hard-countered by thieves.

However, The Abjured did have a flaw in the strategy that was exploited, and that is that the Engie/Necro combo, while providing incredible pressure, doesn’t have much peel for the Necro.

This isn’t to bash The Abjured in any way, as every strategy should have a flaw in a balanced game. This was just the first time in a tourney someone figured out the weak link was Nos not having peel.

Even if Abjured won, ANet should be concerned that there was only one Necro and one Ranger in what, the top 8 teams?

Another issue people often bring up is if it’s just the meta holding back the class. Is the reason the Necro is so poorly represented because another class is so common? But even in this area, considering 2 of the more common classes are Eles and Engineers, 2 classes Necros should do well against, are the 2 most common classes in the meta should be alarming as well.

The last argument I see floating around about why Necros are so rare is they have a disproportionate number of bad players. This is also difficult to believe because each class is going to have a similar mix of good and bad players. Instead it’s far more likely that the class simply wasn’t given the tools it needs to succeed and the skill required to get over the brick wall is simply too high.

So that all said, I do feel the Necro, Ranger, and Mesmer each have rather large issues right now and I’m very concerned these issues will be ignored and forgotten once the expansion comes out.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

EremiteAngel.9765:

having watched the PvP tourney, and how abjured lost, does this show that right now in organized 5v5s, necros have no place in PvP?
seeing how the enemy focus and tear down the necro in the finals so easily.

Necros have a place in PvP for sure. Only Necros and Mesmers can feasibly handle the boon spam most professions put out, and Mesmers are kinda hard-countered by thieves.

However, The Abjured did have a flaw in the strategy that was exploited, and that is that the Engie/Necro combo, while providing incredible pressure, doesn’t have much peel for the Necro.

This isn’t to bash The Abjured in any way, as every strategy should have a flaw in a balanced game. This was just the first time in a tourney someone figured out the weak link was Nos not having peel.

I don’t think it was ever a secret, but this was the first time they were matched talent-wise with nos in the lineup, and they couldn’t protect him. It speaks volumes to me that they won with 2 engineers and lost when they added a necro. Not that they would have won in any regard, but it’s just an obvious observation.

I didn’t see the tourney but I play a lot of Pvp.

Necromancers are too slow to do anything other than sit on a point.

A thief Mesmer or elementalist can get from mid point to stillness in 3 seconds by warping to the upstairs bridge. The necromancer in comparison takes about 12 seconds because it has to run the long way across. Ditto for the upstairs points on Kyhlo or the exits of mid point on Foefire. Swiftness doesn’t make up for this disadvantage, and taking swiftness has its own issues.

The necromancer has to talk the long walk around which is a killer defect for a class that already doesn’t kill very quickly and has a skillet suited for a roamer.

The dominance of blinks which looks exploity to a speciator looks like it might be getting fixed, which will help necromancers. The changes to stability could be a buff too, since necromancer transforms may get “pulsing” stability.

Anet may be about to help us.

nekretaal.6485:

I didn’t see the tourney but I play a lot of Pvp.

Necromancers are too slow to do anything other than sit on a point.

A thief Mesmer or elementalist can get from mid point to stillness in 3 seconds by warping to the upstairs bridge. The necromancer in comparison takes about 12 seconds because it has to run the long way across. Ditto for the upstairs points on Kyhlo or the exits of mid point on Foefire. Swiftness doesn’t make up for this disadvantage, and taking swiftness has its own issues.

The necromancer has to talk the long walk around which is a killer defect for a class that already doesn’t kill very quickly and has a skillet suited for a roamer.

The dominance of blinks which looks exploity to a speciator looks like it might be getting fixed, which will help necromancers. The changes to stability could be a buff too, since necromancer transforms may get “pulsing” stability.

Anet may be about to help us.

I wouldn’t hold your breath, but I came back on this hope.

This is why we have been asking for more ways to deal with focus fire and cc because it is just to easy to focus fire a necro and take them out of the picture. To compensate you have to almost build your team around protecting the necro to be effective and I think it ultimately gimps you no matter how good your team is or how good the necro is. We have asked for this to be addressed so many times and the biggest change we received was doomfire who was not asked for and ultimately decreased to its current state. Meanwhile we have little access to stability and no access to blocks etc, and we are stun/cc magnets that almost renders us ineffective. We have decent damage and crap utility. Why can’t the devs see this and help this class out. Or forget it they still want and esport of 4 classes +1 when the rev comes out. Boring

Pulsing Stability on our transforms will do little to help us

Nos is the best Neco in sPvP and yes if u see to the whole Tourney scene he is also kinda the only 1 in the Top teams. Tha fact that he got trashed vs orange and the fact that he is a very lonely Necro on the scene is concerning. make off it what u will but Necro shine in WvW, suck in PvE and sPvP hmm

Necromancers are weak because they’re the same zerk as anyone else without the mobility/blocks/blinds (general defenses) to support it. Even their comfortable burst requires life force, which often times you’ll start with 0 and if your early LF builders miss you can end up squished for nothing. Until they’re able to snowball a bit of Lifeforce they can be risky to have roaming around.

Until they gain some mobility and aren’t quite as team dependent they’ll probably never be super-meta heavy because anyone can zerk, but if you’re only ‘really good’ some of the time and you can’t move around very fast, you’re better replaced with a thief, mesmer, hell, even zerk ranger or some misc meta cele build.

Offensively, they’re okay, but they rely too much one everyone else to be effective, which in my opinion is a bit counter productive for a zerker who you’d often want to roam when there isn’t a major team fight happening. Just my feels on the situation.

It seems to me that there has always been a common consensus in the necro community. We have ok to good damage but that damage drops off so quickly due to cc, lack of blocks and limited mobility, and we can be a detriment to our team unless you are uber like nos. even the best necros get shutdown when faced with the meta and our lack of compensatory mechanisms. It’s not like we have not been asking for this to be addressed since beta yet nothing has changed for necros despite shifts in the meta and the waxing and waning of the utility of other classes. We have gotten even less useful.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

This was just the first time in a tourney someone figured out the weak link was Nos not having peel.

Really? The first time someone tried to focus the necro before other classes?

Ravezaar.4951:

Nos is the best Neco in sPvP and yes if u see to the whole Tourney scene he is also kinda the only 1 in the Top teams.

The only one in a top team? No.
The best necro? Absolutely not.

Roe.3679:

It speaks volumes to me that they won with 2 engineers and lost when they added a necro. Not that they would have won in any regard, but it’s just an obvious observation.

Orange Logo was hands down the better team in the final.
I wouldn’t say The Abjured lost because they had a necro though. But generally yes, a necro is a bigger liability than an engi. They simply are the easiest target in team fights. And as long as we don’t get a significant sustain boost for those specific situations like being able to receive healing in DS, we’ll stay as unwanted as we are now.

Atherakhia.4086:

Even if Abjured won, ANet should be concerned that there was only one Necro and one Ranger in what, the top 8 teams?

Agreed. Rangers and Necros should find a way to find a solution to their own problem(s) Anet prove themselves incompetant to help us so rangers and necros must outplay for the flaw(s) of theirs professions.

Anet cares not because … revenant.

Well now that Noscoc is no longer singlehandedly making necros look viable, maybe we’ll finally get some buffs.

Rejoice! We’re officially no longer OP! :p

As stated on what someone said above….
Yes there is a big wall that 90% of players in PvP cannot overcome. There is WAY to many horrible necros out there, some of which actually think they are good (not sure why). I personally do not want the class to be easier to L2P. Necro’s are nasty. They are underrated due to the fact that most don’t know how to play correctly, power or condi. If the class gets easier to play and learn, PvP will be flooded with them. IMO a necro on a team needs an engi and a warrior so it can effectively peel. The 2 ele comp, while it provides great support in heals and condi clears for the necro, if kitten hits the fan, he is done. Nos has never really been focused that hard before and his teammates had no idea how to help him; because in reality, they couldn’t much. Necro is one of the most underestimated classes, but with the correct team comp and players knowing what they need to do for the necro, it can be devastating for the enemy.

Necro has the worst mobility and practically no escapes (unless worm). This requires the teamates to pay close attention and listen to the necro when they need help. You could be the best necro in the world by a long shot, but if your team can’t help you much due to comp or experience, you are completely screwed.

Had a Mesmer tell me I was horrible last night because we went 3v3 at mid and all 3 (ranger, theif, warrior) jumped on me and I died. He said I should have ran away after all 3 attacked me….. Ya and without worm how the hell am I suppose to do that. Not once did he use the curtain or knockback or anything to help me peel. I was just a sitting punching bag as I attempted to crawl off point while being stunned, imobed, crippled etc non stop. Without help from the ‘team’ (yes it’s a team effort), there isn’t always a way out when you only got 1 stun break.

Nos got rekt because he played like kitten, anyone who has seen him play before knows mobility and getting focused isn’t usually a problem for him, he wasn’t expertly porting with Wurm and walk like he normally does so he was never able to build enough life force to matter. Honestly I didn’t see orng focus him particularly hard. He wasn’t the only one who had some bad games either…. phanta and Chaith both also had some bad cames…. pretty sure denshee rekt phanta a few times 1v1 as well as get dropped in the start a little too quickly. I don’t think necros are in a horrible place he just played badly That day.

NeXeD.3042:

Nos got rekt because he played like kitten, anyone who has seen him play before knows mobility and getting focused isn’t usually a problem for him, he wasn’t expertly porting with Wurm and walk like he normally does so he was never able to build enough life force to matter. Honestly I didn’t see orng focus him particularly hard. He wasn’t the only one who had some bad games either…. phanta and Chaith both also had some bad cames…. pretty sure denshee rekt phanta a few times 1v1 as well as get dropped in the start a little too quickly. I don’t think necros are in a horrible place he just played badly That day.

The guys who have hardly lost a game in months all of a sudden played as badly as you describe on the biggest stage? Or did they get outplayed and it made them look like they played badly?

Roe.3679:

NeXeD.3042:

Nos got rekt because he played like kitten, anyone who has seen him play before knows mobility and getting focused isn’t usually a problem for him, he wasn’t expertly porting with Wurm and walk like he normally does so he was never able to build enough life force to matter. Honestly I didn’t see orng focus him particularly hard. He wasn’t the only one who had some bad games either…. phanta and Chaith both also had some bad cames…. pretty sure denshee rekt phanta a few times 1v1 as well as get dropped in the start a little too quickly. I don’t think necros are in a horrible place he just played badly That day.

The guys who have hardly lost a game in months all of a sudden played as badly as you describe on the biggest stage? Or did they get outplayed and it made them look like they played badly?

I dunno I would say a little bit of both….. but I mean if you watched Nos really didn’t play well, and while the cameraman kind of sucked….. so we didn’t get to see some of the 1v1 fights and whatnot… like we had no idea what the kitten happened when abjureds whole team wiped because he was looking at some random point…..

But come the kitten on if you’ve watched Nos a decent amount you have to admit it was more than just getting outplayed, some of them just played like kitten…. it seemed like a few games they had the rotatons perfectly thought they were gonna win relaxed a little then got kittening rekt hard.

Tbh while watching the wts I started rooting for players over teams. Eura’s play was kittening awesome, wish he didn’t go condi ranger. Tage was a kittening animal, rom was just absolutely ridiculous. Denshee was winning every 1v1 that came his way… those are the things I noticed most Aside from Nos just not playing well. Chaith and phanta didn’t have strong games either.

There was a time necros did sorta well, as did rangers, and then people whined and whined and whined about spirits and Dhuumfire and pet/minion damage that the necro just got owned into a punching bag again. The problem was always the long terror chains not dhuumfire but they nerfed the living crap out of Dhuumfire in all their fine foresight, just as they nerfed weakness duration upon entering death shroud so now people can just train the necro to death.

If you want to know why any class is currently not doing too well on any aspect of the game, look no further than spvp whine, it’s the source of all class destroying nerfs.

The problem with necros is that they sacrifice almost every non-baseline defensive mechanic in the game for boon corruption, condition transfer, DS, and the ability to blow up teams in +1 fights. The sacrifice for this is way way way to large to be worth it on pretty much any team. The class has some good offensive things going for it, aoe and high sustained damage in particular, but defensively necros are so weak it is absurd and until that changes the class will continue to be very rarely taken at high level pvp.

EdIt:

There was a time necros did sorta well, as did rangers, and then people whined and whined and whined about spirits and Dhuumfire and pet/minion damage that the necro just got owned into a punching bag again. The problem was always the long terror chains not dhuumfire but they nerfed the living crap out of Dhuumfire in all their fine foresight, just as they nerfed weakness duration upon entering death shroud so now people can just train the necro to death.

If you want to know why any class is currently not doing too well on any aspect of the game, look no further than spvp whine, it’s the source of all class destroying nerfs.

The only reason necros were taken with dhummfire was because it provided necros with burst levels of damage in fear chains. That was why they were taken for the 2 months or so when that was strong. Otherwise, necros have never been strong in this game. I do agree that there are a ton of forum warriors, especially for warrior, thief, and ele which are 3 of the classes that have been meta for most of the game. Necros damage has pretty much always been pretty decent in pvp, the real problem is defense where necros are blatantly worse than every other class.

“The only one in a top team? No.
The best necro? Absolutely not.”

Its the only one Iv seen at any top team atleast and I watch for quite some time
Well I think Nos is best, certainly better then the forum warriors in here

Ravezaar.4951:

“The only one in a top team? No.
The best necro? Absolutely not.”

Its the only one Iv seen at any top team atleast and I watch for quite some time
Well I think Nos is best, certainly better then the forum warriors in here

I didn’t mean to say that Nos is bad, but there are a lot of necros that simply aren’t as popular as him. This is mostly due to the fact that Nos plays with Abjured, but honestly, there must be hundreds of necros who could easily take his place.
Also, there simply is no best player at any class in gw2 because the game isn’t that hard or complicated and the player base huge.

That being said, I’ve watched Nos’ stream, I’ve met him on his EU account a couple of times… and in my oppinion there are several necros I’d rather play with instead of him. And those are just the ones I know of, I’m sure there are many players all over the world who are completely unknown but can easily keep up with a well known necro like Nos.

flow.6043:

Ravezaar.4951:

“The only one in a top team? No.
The best necro? Absolutely not.”

Its the only one Iv seen at any top team atleast and I watch for quite some time
Well I think Nos is best, certainly better then the forum warriors in here

I didn’t mean to say that Nos is bad, but there are a lot of necros that simply aren’t as popular as him. This is mostly due to the fact that Nos plays with Abjured, but honestly, there must be hundreds of necros who could easily take his place.
Also, there simply is no best player at any class in gw2 because the game isn’t that hard or complicated and the player base huge.

That being said, I’ve watched Nos’ stream, I’ve met him on his EU account a couple of times… and in my oppinion there are several necros I’d rather play with instead of him. And those are just the ones I know of, I’m sure there are many players all over the world who are completely unknown but can easily keep up with a well known necro like Nos.

hundreds of better necros huh? sure you are definitely one of them am i right!? what team you play on?

ANYWAY

Necro has kitten defense that doesn’t scale with garbage mobility – we can all agree

So why are we not doing ridiculous burst damage? The condi build needs to be UNNERFED – a class with garbage defense should have ridiculous offense which it doesn’t

Scepter 2/Staff 2/Terror/Staff 4/Dhuumfire

Give it back Anet

It’s true that the Abj all fell apart a bit in that last game, but before that I really don’t think Nos or any of them was playing much worse than usual. But he definitely did get focussed very aggressively, and the reason his teammates weren’t able to help him much is because orng were forcing team fights (3v3s and 4v4s). There’s only so much you can do for your teammate when there’s 3 people focussing him, and with his stunbreaks at 60" cooldowns there’s only so much he can do to keep himself alive as well. ORNG knew that since they had more burst they could quickly turn a 4v4 into a 3v4, and Abjured also didn’t have very much to help with stomps and revives.

The reason Nos was getting targeted first wasn’t because conditionmancers are so much deadlier than anything else on Abjured’s team. It was because they’re easy to take out with their long-cooldown, unreliable escapes (I’m sure I saw Wurm glitch for him at least once in that second Foefire match), so orng knew they could take him out quickly. Especially with Tage on zerker guardian, which is a very hard matchup for necro.

As far as buffs go, nobody thinks necro should be made easier. The skill floor is already pretty low for the class. But they could definitely increase the skill CEILING, make it easier for good players like Nos to get more out of the profession. It takes a lot of tactical awareness to play necro (knowing where to stand so you don’t get instagibbed mainly), but not much mechanical skill. There’s stuff they could do to make our skills more responsive, allowing skilled players to pull off clutch moves. Stuff like decreasing Wurm’s casting time so you can actually place it during a fight, making the golem’s charge instant cast, giving us better death shroud on entry/on exit traits (remember when damage didn’t overflow, so entering death shroud with very little life force was like getting Aegis?), making Dark Path a targeted teleport or at least increasing its projectile speed, all sorts of little things that don’t actually buff the skills in themselves, but allow you to use them under pressure better and therefore increase their utility.

Maybe its time necros got some mobility enhancements… hint hint (Greatsword)

flow.6043:

Ravezaar.4951:

“The only one in a top team? No.
The best necro? Absolutely not.”

Its the only one Iv seen at any top team atleast and I watch for quite some time
Well I think Nos is best, certainly better then the forum warriors in here

I didn’t mean to say that Nos is bad, but there are a lot of necros that simply aren’t as popular as him. This is mostly due to the fact that Nos plays with Abjured, but honestly, there must be hundreds of necros who could easily take his place.
Also, there simply is no best player at any class in gw2 because the game isn’t that hard or complicated and the player base huge.

That being said, I’ve watched Nos’ stream, I’ve met him on his EU account a couple of times… and in my oppinion there are several necros I’d rather play with instead of him. And those are just the ones I know of, I’m sure there are many players all over the world who are completely unknown but can easily keep up with a well known necro like Nos.

Honestly on almost every class i find the best players to be randoms nobody has ever heard of. I think there is massive over rating of the tiny esports scene. Those guys are there by choice as much as being the best who rise to the top. They choose to put the effort into playing this game mode in teams with proper comps and tactics. The best players i know of personnally has no interest in this esports stuff. Some of the esports crowd are amongst the best too. But there is no great gap i agree 100% with u

In games like this I tend to agree, people who are at the “top” are there because they are the ones putting in the effort to make/be on teams. This isn’t like League where there is a huge professional scene and where the highest rated players are not only highly visible but their games are seen a lot.

That isn’t to say Nos is bad, he’s a great player better than 99% of Necromancers. But that top 1% still has a lot of players who aren’t lured in by the prospects of being semi-e-famous, and so they just chill around and play PvP a ton without joining a team and putting up with the legendary amount of BS lots of people do.

I can’t speak for EU, but nos is in a league of his own in NA. I only know of 3 other necros that come close, and that’s it. I’m not sure who all these incredible necro pvpers are that could be winning thousands of dollars at pvp but just don’t because they are too chill for it.

Roe.3679:

I can’t speak for EU, but nos is in a league of his own in NA. I only know of 3 other necros that come close, and that’s it. I’m not sure who all these incredible necro pvpers are that could be winning thousands of dollars at pvp but just don’t because they are too chill for it.

^ I agree about the “too chill for it” lol.

hateuy, firebird whose the other one? RIP? rawface?

Hatuey is the only one that comes close as a condi necro. But u haven’t seen him in a whileeeeeee

NeXeD.3042:

Roe.3679:

I can’t speak for EU, but nos is in a league of his own in NA. I only know of 3 other necros that come close, and that’s it. I’m not sure who all these incredible necro pvpers are that could be winning thousands of dollars at pvp but just don’t because they are too chill for it.

^ I agree about the “too chill for it” lol.
…

Playing in teams and attending events like the recent WTS is a big commitment. It’s not just something you casually squeeze into your schedule. So to me it is perfectly understandable that some players have no interest in competing at such events, even if the prize pool is attractive.
Also, winning pvp matches is primarily a team effort. Having skilled individual players is definitely an advantage, but ultimately there are more important things at a high level pvp tournament, like map rotation and utility/skill coordination.

In regards to the NA pvp scene, I highly doubt that even the smaller player base you have over there could only produce a total of 4 people who can play a decent necro.
Like I said, apparently those are just the ones you’ve heard of. But I’m sure there are many completely unknown necros on NA servers who play at the very same high level as Nos and whoever else you can think of.
And this is not just a matter of statistical probability, but also due to the fact that gw2’s pvp is considerably easier to master than games you have to train 10 hours per day, 24/7, just to stay competitive. So someone who plays gw2 only a couple of hours can easily be as skilled as someone who invests double or tripple the amount of time. And naturally, that means less exposure in terms of popularity.

Regardless, the Necro profession is underrepresented in a meta that should be it’s wet dream: tons of boons ripe for corruption with conditions just begging to be transferred back.

The place for Necros is there, so why aren’t the Necros filling it? That was a rhetorical question by the way, since the answer is “lack of defense.”

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Regardless, the Necro profession is underrepresented in a meta that should be it’s wet dream: tons of boons ripe for corruption with conditions just begging to be transferred back.

The place for Necros is there, so why aren’t the Necros filling it?

Because most Necros are bads…

Why are most Necros bads?

Because Necros aren’t given the tools to succeed which makes the skill floor too high for entry.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Regardless, the Necro profession is underrepresented in a meta that should be it’s wet dream: tons of boons ripe for corruption with conditions just begging to be transferred back.

The place for Necros is there, so why aren’t the Necros filling it? That was a rhetorical question by the way, since the answer is “lack of defense.”

Vs engis and eles necro is really good. problem they can just counter spec you with dps guard (espcially greatsword one) and shout warrior. In a 2v2 vs a shout warrior and dps guard nothing the necro does will “stick”. That is the problem.

Vs the right comp necro is very strong, but it is too easily countered if people are good enough to play multiple professions and specs.

Hammer dps guard isnt so bad, but greatsword one is. We can do ok vs hammer dps guard. Shout warrior just nullifies necro in a lot of fights so the fight doesnt end soon enough by which time the necro degens out and dies over time. Same with res skills. If you dont have a great thief who can interrupt all spirit res/banners then it is back breaking. If you waste all ur cds getting a down it needs to get killed (again why necro dependent on ur team because they need to cleave the corpse well). Any resses = means necro just degens out because the sustain is so bad. Necro needs to end fights fast because it has the worst sustain in the game along with mesmer.

flow.6043:

NeXeD.3042:

Roe.3679:

I can’t speak for EU, but nos is in a league of his own in NA. I only know of 3 other necros that come close, and that’s it. I’m not sure who all these incredible necro pvpers are that could be winning thousands of dollars at pvp but just don’t because they are too chill for it.

^ I agree about the “too chill for it” lol.
…

Playing in teams and attending events like the recent WTS is a big commitment. It’s not just something you casually squeeze into your schedule. So to me it is perfectly understandable that some players have no interest in competing at such events, even if the prize pool is attractive.
Also, winning pvp matches is primarily a team effort. Having skilled individual players is definitely an advantage, but ultimately there are more important things at a high level pvp tournament, like map rotation and utility/skill coordination.

In regards to the NA pvp scene, I highly doubt that even the smaller player base you have over there could only produce a total of 4 people who can play a decent necro.
Like I said, apparently those are just the ones you’ve heard of. But I’m sure there are many completely unknown necros on NA servers who play at the very same high level as Nos and whoever else you can think of.
And this is not just a matter of statistical probability, but also due to the fact that gw2’s pvp is considerably easier to master than games you have to train 10 hours per day, 24/7, just to stay competitive. So someone who plays gw2 only a couple of hours can easily be as skilled as someone who invests double or tripple the amount of time. And naturally, that means less exposure in terms of popularity.

WTS isn’t the only competitive tournament. Where are all the necros elsewhere? Nos is the one winning weekly tourneys, 2v2s, along with qualifiers and going to WTS finals. He is clearly an outlier to your statistical probability. There aren’t dozens of players that could step in and take his place.

Actually, I’d say that statistically, most of the elite pvpers are playing classes that are, you know, good.

Necro suffers same issue as rangers (why rangers are also lacking an thieves preferred over them).

Their stunbreaks suck bigtime. Not only hideously long cooldowns, but garbage effects to boot.

Look at spectral walk, it’s virtually a worse version of Shadow Step, where you first have to travel a distance before porting to safety, whereas the thief gets the immediate movement and then the retreat on demand.

And more outrageously, thief not only gets a double stun break via Shadowstep, but it clears conditions upon use as well.

Then there’s the fact necromancers heal plain suck. They’re like old warrior before healing signet — garbage healing values and even worse for the necromancer is all his heals have these long as hell cast times and long recharge cd’s.

JUST CURIOUS

if necros are so bad, why arn’t the developers doing anything to balance things out and make us more viable?

I can only think of two answers

1) the developers dont want a balanced game

2) necros dont suck. you guys just dont know how to use them well enough.

EremiteAngel.9765:

JUST CURIOUS

if necros are so bad, why arn’t the developers doing anything to balance things out and make us more viable?

I can only think of two answers

1) the developers dont want a balanced game

2) necros dont suck. you guys just dont know how to use them well enough.

I love how you completely missed the third, and most likely option: The developers don’t know how.

This is not a competence complaint, far from it. The Necromancer, as it is designed, is the most difficult profession to balance because to make it hold up well in teamfights, it becomes bonkers OP in 1v1’s. Make it balanced for 1v1 and it’s pathetic in teamfights.

This is what happens when the only defense a class is given is pure health. The fact it does see competitive play is frankly a heck of a feat in and of itself for the balance team.

EremiteAngel.9765:

JUST CURIOUS

if necros are so bad, why arn’t the developers doing anything to balance things out and make us more viable?

I can only think of two answers

1) the developers dont want a balanced game

2) necros dont suck. you guys just dont know how to use them well enough.

LOL! The game has been out for nearly 3 years. Do you have blinders on? These are the only 2 options you can come up with?

I can think of several more, but I’m going for my first full week without an infraction.

Necros excell when we’re able to snowball and join already favorable/balanced fights. We’re killers there, regardless Power or Condition. We’re kind of like a turning point, crushing “centre of weight”, freaking nail in the coffin.

Once snowballing ends, we’re kittened. Regardless Power or Condi.

So it comes down to our teammates, to set up that balanced, cozy situation we can run into and end the fight in seconds. We’re pretty decent in 1v1s though.

Rym.1469:

Necros excell when we’re able to snowball and join already favorable/balanced fights. We’re killers there, regardless Power or Condition. We’re kind of like a turning point, crushing “centre of weight”, freaking nail in the coffin.

Once snowballing ends, we’re kittened. Regardless Power or Condi.

So it comes down to our teammates, to set up that balanced, cozy situation we can run into and end the fight in seconds. We’re pretty decent in 1v1s though.

Does the game need snowballers though? And is Necro really that great at doing it?

Rangers, Berserker Warriors, and even Medi Guards all snowball quite well imo. Just don’t need them in the sustained/condi meta we have.

Snowballing is bad, makes the game predictable and boring to watch.

Yet, we’re stuck with snowball profession mechanic gifted to us by ANet. So we snowball.

for the most part i dont see whats wrong, lol if a player form any profession gets focused and jumped by 3-4-5 players and killed its ok but if it happens to a necro clearly the necro is underpowered?

Rezzet.3614:

for the most part i dont see whats wrong, lol if a player form any profession gets focused and jumped by 3-4-5 players and killed its ok but if it happens to a necro clearly the necro is underpowered?

It’s fine to die in those situations. What’s not fine is that Necros fail in 3v3’s, for example. There ends up being a break point where Necros stop failing in mass combat to being incredibly strong, but that break point is higher than 5v5.

What’s not fine is the fact Necros have no tools to deal with those situations. They can’t escape and they can’t survive.

There is a reason why the strategy is “focus the Necro” and not “Focus the Ele.” Even if the Ele is capable of dealing a lot more damage, they have the tools to get out of harms way or survive.

For example, Staff ele will out-damage any Necro build not currently using Lich Form. But when facing a Necro and an Ele, the Necro is the one that gets focused. Why? Because he can’t protect himself. Staff ele is very good at protecting itself between chills, stuns, knockbacks, knockdowns, and even an evade+retreat skill in the highest damage attunement.

Rezzet.3614:

for the most part i dont see whats wrong, lol if a player form any profession gets focused and jumped by 3-4-5 players and killed its ok but if it happens to a necro clearly the necro is underpowered?

True, but a necro has no way to escape that situation. All of our pseudo escapes require pre-emptive actions, like spectral walk that was outlined above (I wish SW chilled and tormented when we ported, for example). We also don’t have any invulns or blocks or stability to combat being focused over and over. Plus, a Necro will be focused early and often due to not having life force to start a match. I mean there’s not even vigor to dodge big attacks; eventually, something will land. Then there’s group utility which isn’t existant, but we aren’t as alone there as some of the rest.

Other classes can and should die when being focused too. But other classes can get away, or stall for some time, or have stability and be fighting back while it happens. If you look at necro skills, most of them benefit greatly from being in someone’s face. But if necros get on point against good teams, it’s a death sentence. The class design just doesn’t work in competitive play, we can be strong if supported, but there are too many weaknesses (no mobility, little sustain, little stability) to exploit, which oRNG did well against Nos.

- bring back SHADE
- perhaps give us aegis or a similar block upon entry to ds
- give us an invulnerability like mist form that allows us to escape damage for a time being (maybe we pop into the ground like some mobs do)
- or perhaps give us something that all builds can use which would up our defense without having to sacrifice all our attack. Sorta like every other class has.

These are just some options. Tired of being a damage sponge. Only the soak is not all that beneficial or prolonging.

Is it really that bad?

I wanted to play a Terrormancer, but from what I’m reading, it would suck. A lot.
It’s weird how Necros are supposed to give up their Defensive Utility to perform their role well (using Signets, for example).
I favour Necromancer over Elem, for example, because of CC/debuffing. I like that concept, but unfortunatly we need to give up on Utility as well for it. We can’t help teammates, we can’t move around capturing places.

And then I ask again: Is it really that bad?

as far as mobility/ sustain goes i think it would be cool to have:
ground targeted dark path similar to merciful intervention. z axis disabled, if blind tele works but no effects.
swalk 40sec cd swift 20sec, superspeed for first couple of seconds.
sarmor maybe invuln for 2-3 seconds then prot.
dark pact maybe a port.
wurm instacast.
well of power cd reduced to 35, or pulses stab for mates.
able to use heal and utility skills in ds.
start a match and all subsequent respawns with at least 20% lf.

bssbruno.1487:

Is it really that bad?

I wanted to play a Terrormancer, but from what I’m reading, it would suck. A lot.
It’s weird how Necros are supposed to give up their Defensive Utility to perform their role well (using Signets, for example).
I favour Necromancer over Elem, for example, because of CC/debuffing. I like that concept, but unfortunatly we need to give up on Utility as well for it. We can’t help teammates, we can’t move around capturing places.

And then I ask again: Is it really that bad?

If you play casually, no, it’s not that bad. You’ll still be focused but most of the time you should be able to kite and use your ports effectively… but you do need to mind your positioning. If you run into a coordinated team or want to be seriously competitive at all, then it’s not good.