Guild Wars 2

Kilger.5490:

glorius.1235:

Kilger.5490:

I dont want to sound like Im trolling but I thought we were fine before the patch and now I think we’re OP. But the complaints really confuse me, so maybe theres something I’m not understanding. What ev.

How much do you play WvW?

Thats all I play. I run power spec, which works really well. I’ve played half the classes and none can pressure an enemy zerg like the necro can. Perhaps it just works better for my playstyle than for other people.

you are one of the very few vs the bigger crowd of necros that it works for then XD the majority of other necros (as far as the vocal ones anyway) are finding the class getting destroyed while other classes that need to be toned down , stay as OP as ever….

Sorry if I sounded totally down on the necro yesterday.

They are fun to play.
Lots of bugs have been fixed recently. More in the works.

There was a big feel of non-necro love for the start of this game. Only thing being fixed was tooltips. Inexcusable things like 1/3rd downed life, not being fixed for month after month after month.

There’s also the slight issue of, it not particularly feeling like a necro. With the main build playing more like a squishy affliction warloc type.

But, things are getting better and better! Lots of the ‘frustrating as hell’ bugs are gone.
Last patch had a big DeathShroud rework, that made it make more sense. It’s now 100% your life, and doesn’t take extra damage from direct damage. So working how it works actually makes sense. Filling it up, mitigates more damage with more lifeforce, rather than before where it’s best use was to ‘flick’ it on to suck up a single attack and give you some buffs.

Vampirism/life stealing & minions are there. They are kinda really bad at the moment, but if they get the love, sometime soon the necro will have a choice of necro feeling spec’s.

The community has ‘some’ fanboys that’ll say were uba awesome and people need to learn to play around the bugs or quit. A few PvP’ers that only care about melting face quickly at any cost.
But by the large, most of us here have a deep love for the class. For the dark arts. Ya know, have a sense of style and flair. Also seem more mature & helpful with advice. Rather than being a ‘brat’.

So yeh, if you want a faceroller alt, Thief/War/Guard have simple spec’s that work well.
If your after a more deep & dark class to sink ya teeth in zombie voice joiiinnn usss.

Navzar.2938:

Enundr.9305:

say that vs a group of condition cleansers MightyAltroll…..lol have i ever seen a condition necro ever feel so useless…..and like i said , a perma stealth thief does insane burst dmg , and can go stealth and come out full health……yea …….sry but conditions are nothing if they cant actually kill , and these thieves prove it every day , and dont even get viewed as remotely OP

What, a group of people specialized in condition cleansing can own your condition only builds? So unfair!

I’m sorry, but your quote showcases a fundamental ignorance about game design. You ultimately want all confrontations to come to a conclusion, and if build A completely negates build B, that’s poor design. Why? It means a conflict between these two builds never concludes. Now, as to bunker builds, yes they should be able to withstand a lot of punishment for a long time, but attrition must set in at some point or else there’s literally no point. Think about how entertaining basketball would be if a basket were never scored. Football if a touchdown never happened. Hockey without goals. Do you get the point? Good game design has defense as delaying strategy, until your offense can wear down the opponent. If you simply have 2 sides that cancel each other out, well, you might as well just go outside and bash two rocks together. You’ll experience the same enjoyment.

This is the fundamental problem with thieves being able to permanently reset fights and condi cleansing builds completely negating condition builds.

It doesn’t completely negate it, but it does significantly reduce how strong it is, which makes sense since meta game runs counter builds. Honestly that’s rather expected when you put every resource into doing one thing, no matter what the game is. If a build like that were to have it’s full potential no matter how the enemy fights against it, then the build is too powerful because it lacks a viable way to counter it. Moderate counter play is good.

As for the specific situation being discussed, having your whole team zerg in one place is usually bad anyway (I’m assuming you mean normal pvp, not wvw)…

I run full rabid condi necro (without dhuumfire even) and I do perfectly fine in WvW, I can pressure zergs very hard am really hard to kill and can take down most things 1v1 without too many problems.

The only real issue I have is lack of stability, and it’s relatively easy to escape me if you’re not already a walking dead man due to condi stacks.

I have a level 80 Necro, Warrior, Mesmer, Engineer, and Thief. My favorite class is still the Necro, and I will tell you why.

Pve
For dungeons, Necromancers are good. Necromancer actually does more raw damage than some of my other classes, and the “infamous warrior leet dps” is not actually higher by default; warrior’s awesomeness comes from stacking buffs with other warriors that push the party over the edge. If you want to min/max, you might as well take X number of Warriors for their buffs/banners, then 1 Mesmer for the reflect and timewarp. If you want to argue from that perspective, you shouldn’t and don’t need to play any other classes. However, the most organized group is maybe 10 minutes faster than a group filled with people who know what they are doing but are playing their favorite classes. So really, it does not matter.

Pvp
We are actually one of the strongest class in the game right now. I’m sure you have already heard about this enough. They had just recently nerfed us slightly because of this.

Wvw
Really, in WvW, roaming does not matter. Yeah it is fun and people like to post stupid “LOL 30K THIEF CRITS” videos on youtube, but it does not matter. WvW is won over large organized Zergs and large scale engagements. Necromancer has been one of the strongest group fight/zerg class in the game, and they just recently got buffed.

Oh, and I frequent other boards. Most boards are actually filled with negative posts; ranger’s one especially so (but that one is actually justified). We all like to see our favorite class get buffed, so we tend to be vocal and exaggerate things.

“Kill the necro” every fight this is said if the enemy has a necro. Why? Easy to train down and even easier to stomp. I love my necro, he does a F ton of damage. He however does 0.00% damage laying face first in the mud.

Kilger.5490:

glorius.1235:

Kilger.5490:

I dont want to sound like Im trolling but I thought we were fine before the patch and now I think we’re OP. But the complaints really confuse me, so maybe theres something I’m not understanding. What ev.

How much do you play WvW?

Thats all I play. I run power spec, which works really well. I’ve played half the classes and none can pressure an enemy zerg like the necro can. Perhaps it just works better for my playstyle than for other people.

When we talk about large scale WvW (~30vs30), nothing can be compared to Shroud + Walk pre-patch as in terms of survivability during an engagement.
As you mentioned, WvW necros are mostly Powermancers.

With this patch, necros lost the only appealing aspect they had: being extremely tanky in large fights
Sure, when we talk about 1-2 hits, this Armor change is a huge buff but not when it comes to AoE-rich environment and being focused fired by multiple opponents.

If we compare necros to other light classes:
- Eles are far more mobile and outdps necros on any given day. They do well at group cleansing and healing too with the water fields, that they provide on command
- Mesmers just bring way more useful utilities than a Necro will ever: portals, veils, Timewarp, Null Field

Most of these complainers are people who still run condition damage builds in PvE and WvW. Conditions are bad in WvW once you start facing organized groups (if you are small group roaming then they are still good) because of all the AoE condi cleanse flying about. As a necro you should be going power wells with staff, axe/X for WvW for excellent control and extreme aoe damage.

For PvE you should be going power wells, but using dagger/horn, axe/focus, and spec into death shroud a little as well. Condition damage is bad in PvE for multiple reasons. The main ones being: 1. If anyone else in your group is running condi, one of you might as well not even be there. 2. You are slowing your group’s DPS down significantly by speccing for long term damage instead of raw, bursty, power based damage.

The only thing conditions are good for is SPvP (and small scale WvW roaming). This is not just true for Necros but for every class in the game. Necromancers shine in Spvp and anyone who tells you otherwise clearly hasn’t figured out the class yet. Most top level tournament teams run a Necromancer since the recent buffs they received.

Argis.7049:

Most of these complainers are people who still run condition damage builds in PvE and WvW. Conditions are bad in WvW once you start facing organized groups (if you are small group roaming then they are still good) because of all the AoE condi cleanse flying about. As a necro you should be going power wells with staff, axe/X for WvW for excellent control and extreme aoe damage.

For PvE you should be going power wells, but using dagger/horn, axe/focus, and spec into death shroud a little as well. Condition damage is bad in PvE for multiple reasons. The main ones being: 1. If anyone else in your group is running condi, one of you might as well not even be there. 2. You are slowing your group’s DPS down significantly by speccing for long term damage instead of raw, bursty, power based damage.

The only thing conditions are good for is SPvP (and small scale WvW roaming). This is not just true for Necros but for every class in the game. Necromancers shine in Spvp and anyone who tells you otherwise clearly hasn’t figured out the class yet. Most top level tournament teams run a Necromancer since the recent buffs they received.

I think you reversed a few things:
Necros are still on just ok (unlike lets say a ele) in pvp, you cannot fit them in every team (also 3 professions have a utility that allow them to ignore the necro without decap), they do roflstomp a group of hotjoin tears.
Condi necros got hit the least with DS nerf, Dagger got hit the most (the true power weapon of the necro)
Necro without staff in pve – please tell me you are in a set group where they can ignore the fact that you are crippling your worth for a bit more damage (even if chewing on a enemy with Dagger 1 is still more than Axe 2 can do) pre range.
4 out of the last 5 bosses got cleared down faster in pug terms with 1 condi on team than in full power (and even most organized groups had a fail run/run with wipe if they were trying to do the full zerker/zerker-knight combo).
Wells are good for base defense, not so much for the offensive (they are domes so placing them on walls is kinda pointles, mabye to deny the tar/fire) Epidemic on the other hand.

My problem with necro is that there are great builds and garbage builds. I haven’t found anything in between. Unfortunately, the build I would like to play is a garbage one.

Softspoken.2410:

Enundr.9305:

Softspoken.2410:

Enundr.9305:

Softspoken.2410:

rager.4963:

Took a break since release, came back to see what is up. Was in the mood for a necro. Use to love them in EQ and other games.. Come to the forum to check out pet builds and stuff.

Holy kittens batman. The aura in this forum makes me want to cry. Is necromacers really that bad?

How bad are pets? I mean I see people saying they are bugged, but they got to be useful for something right? I don’t see them leaving them worthless for this long.

In the forum’s defense, the most recent patch had a few nerfs in it that were pretty unexpected, so there’s a lot of recent upheaval.

In my opinion, the only major bug with minions right now is that Flesh Golem despawns if it enters deep water. They’ve actually gotten downright snappy in their response times with recent updates: I urge you to try them yourself and see how well they do or don’t react to your commands.

its not necesarily a bug , due to that the water skill set doesnt allow flesh golem to live , only got plague form in underwater combat (aka deep water) , so the flesh golem cant chase anything underwater.

It sort of is? All other minions, regardless of if they are equipped on the underwater bar, are capable of crossing water as long as the necromancer is not submerged. They don’t do anything once they’re in there, to my knowledge, but they don’t self-despawn. Flesh Golem can actually run itself into deep water without the necromancer even entering swim mode, and sacrifice itself for no apparent reason.

To be clear, it isn’t about actively using Flesh Golem underwater, since that’s clearly marked by the game as impossible. It’s the way a deep enough puddle to trigger ‘swimming’ mode is a sort of landmine that will instantly kill Flesh Golem, even if nobody else in the fight is underwater.

all other minions are able to be used under water normally…..as in their skills can be equipped in the utility slots…..the flesh golem cannot be equipped in the underwater elite skill slot XD

Yeah, I don’t think you’re reading what I’m saying. It shouldn’t matter if the flesh golem can be equipped underwater, since it’s not about using it underwater, but about making it go across / over water.

Edit: VVV Infinite loop detected, aborting conversational path. VVV

If by across/over you mean swimming at the surface of submergable water without diving, it’s still not a bug. Flesh Golem will despawn instantly when the Necromancer enters submergable water, skimming at the top or not. As for the Flesh Golem despawning by running itself into submergible water while the Necromancer is still on land… I have never seen that happen, and I’ve put hundreds of hours into my MM build. Not a bug.

The issue he is referring to is when you walk near swimmable water and the Flesh Golem decides to go swimming on his own, only to remember (once he’s sinking) that you didn’t put his floaties on.

You, the player, never even entered the water.

Andele.1306:

Argis.7049:

Most of these complainers are people who still run condition damage builds in PvE and WvW. Conditions are bad in WvW once you start facing organized groups (if you are small group roaming then they are still good) because of all the AoE condi cleanse flying about. As a necro you should be going power wells with staff, axe/X for WvW for excellent control and extreme aoe damage.

For PvE you should be going power wells, but using dagger/horn, axe/focus, and spec into death shroud a little as well. Condition damage is bad in PvE for multiple reasons. The main ones being: 1. If anyone else in your group is running condi, one of you might as well not even be there. 2. You are slowing your group’s DPS down significantly by speccing for long term damage instead of raw, bursty, power based damage.

The only thing conditions are good for is SPvP (and small scale WvW roaming). This is not just true for Necros but for every class in the game. Necromancers shine in Spvp and anyone who tells you otherwise clearly hasn’t figured out the class yet. Most top level tournament teams run a Necromancer since the recent buffs they received.

I think you reversed a few things:
Necros are still on just ok (unlike lets say a ele) in pvp, you cannot fit them in every team (also 3 professions have a utility that allow them to ignore the necro without decap), they do roflstomp a group of hotjoin tears.
Condi necros got hit the least with DS nerf, Dagger got hit the most (the true power weapon of the necro)
Necro without staff in pve – please tell me you are in a set group where they can ignore the fact that you are crippling your worth for a bit more damage (even if chewing on a enemy with Dagger 1 is still more than Axe 2 can do) pre range.
4 out of the last 5 bosses got cleared down faster in pug terms with 1 condi on team than in full power (and even most organized groups had a fail run/run with wipe if they were trying to do the full zerker/zerker-knight combo).
Wells are good for base defense, not so much for the offensive (they are domes so placing them on walls is kinda pointles, mabye to deny the tar/fire) Epidemic on the other hand.

I repeat that anyone who doesn’t understand how powerful necro is in Tpvp doesn’t understand the class yet.

Staff is bad in pve. The damage is simply too terrible to warrant taking it just for putrid mark and the meager regeneration that mark of blood gives. The damage from combining warhorn 5 with dagger autoattack, the immobilize, life siphon, and an aoe daze (dazes work like stuns in pve) are all simply too good to trade for staff. Not to mention how quickly dagger/horn generates death shroud and how well dagger/horn’s fast hitting attacks scale with the 15 points in blood trait.

Wells aren’t good for going offensive? You must be trolling.

Go to every other forum and you will find the same “aura” about the classes. Players will never be satisified, ever.

For PVE which is what I currently play, the Necromancer is quite strong, with some players even claiming that the class is overpowered on condition damage.

Sieg.8439:

Softspoken.2410:

Enundr.9305:

Softspoken.2410:

Enundr.9305:

Softspoken.2410:

rager.4963:

Took a break since release, came back to see what is up. Was in the mood for a necro. Use to love them in EQ and other games.. Come to the forum to check out pet builds and stuff.

Holy kittens batman. The aura in this forum makes me want to cry. Is necromacers really that bad?

How bad are pets? I mean I see people saying they are bugged, but they got to be useful for something right? I don’t see them leaving them worthless for this long.

In the forum’s defense, the most recent patch had a few nerfs in it that were pretty unexpected, so there’s a lot of recent upheaval.

In my opinion, the only major bug with minions right now is that Flesh Golem despawns if it enters deep water. They’ve actually gotten downright snappy in their response times with recent updates: I urge you to try them yourself and see how well they do or don’t react to your commands.

its not necesarily a bug , due to that the water skill set doesnt allow flesh golem to live , only got plague form in underwater combat (aka deep water) , so the flesh golem cant chase anything underwater.

It sort of is? All other minions, regardless of if they are equipped on the underwater bar, are capable of crossing water as long as the necromancer is not submerged. They don’t do anything once they’re in there, to my knowledge, but they don’t self-despawn. Flesh Golem can actually run itself into deep water without the necromancer even entering swim mode, and sacrifice itself for no apparent reason.

To be clear, it isn’t about actively using Flesh Golem underwater, since that’s clearly marked by the game as impossible. It’s the way a deep enough puddle to trigger ‘swimming’ mode is a sort of landmine that will instantly kill Flesh Golem, even if nobody else in the fight is underwater.

all other minions are able to be used under water normally…..as in their skills can be equipped in the utility slots…..the flesh golem cannot be equipped in the underwater elite skill slot XD

Yeah, I don’t think you’re reading what I’m saying. It shouldn’t matter if the flesh golem can be equipped underwater, since it’s not about using it underwater, but about making it go across / over water.

Edit: VVV Infinite loop detected, aborting conversational path. VVV

If by across/over you mean swimming at the surface of submergable water without diving, it’s still not a bug. Flesh Golem will despawn instantly when the Necromancer enters submergable water, skimming at the top or not. As for the Flesh Golem despawning by running itself into submergible water while the Necromancer is still on land… I have never seen that happen, and I’ve put hundreds of hours into my MM build. Not a bug.

@ sieg Wrong on all accounts.
Crossing deep water w/o diving doesn’t despawn golem you simply have about ~3 seconds to cross before he dies due to being in water for too long. As long as you never dived(had your skills swapped to underwater set) and stay in the swimming above mode where you have no access to skills at all it doesn’t count as swapping to underwater mode.
Golem charge into water very often results in golem dying because he spends too much time in deep water and gets despawned.
Hell… I don’t even need to ender deep water or charge golem into deep water to drown him. All I need to do is run next to deep water with golem following me on the deep water side as soon as he tries to follow me on that side few seconds later he dies.

If I had to take a guess he doesn’t have water collision/physics mechanics. When they initially robed him of his swimming they simply choped it out and didn’t bother to even do it properly. There are npcs that swap to water physics and there are those who do not. Its easy to check because some can’t enter water. And there are npcs that are no affected by water in any way/shape/form. Golem likely is the 3rd with the exception that it was done inproperly and for him water counts as out of collision/ think outside map boundaries where you infinitely fall. And that is what kills him.

Astewart.8415:

Go to every other forum and you will find the same “aura” about the classes. Players will never be satisified, ever.

For PVE which is what I currently play, the Necromancer is quite strong, with some players even claiming that the class is overpowered on condition damage.

overpowered until theres more then 1 condition necro , then your dmg is nothing since the other necro or condition spamming class is applying these conditions as well , theres a condition cap , bosses have defiant (some even have defiant and stability , a redundant thing to have lol) , and then champs / bosses have a general immunity (incredibly low duration more specifically) to things like weakness , one of necros only real aggressive defense mechanics , so we are by far the least powerful in pve for conditions , more specifically dungeons , though open world events like altars in orr , SB , Claw of Jormag , etc. anything where theres a mass group of ppl doing the event , condition necro dmg becomes null and void , or incredibly weakened since theres alot of condition spammers and then the condition cap.

My main cripe about the necro is that it doesnt feel like a necromancer, more like a demonologist. Necro is “supposed” to have lots of corpses walking around, and not these indistinctive lumbs of “flesh” (which also suck). For example of a decent necromancer see Diablo 2.

What I am noticing with alot of you people is your complaining about the necros “burst” damage. First off let me ask if you have tried a thief, warrior, ele, or mesmer? No? Well there’s half your problem. A necro isnt really meant to be a high burst “haha i just one shot that guy” type of class, so of course its going to be a tad difficult to say the least to build like that. The class is naturally tankier, as well as having DS so make use of that! Be a sustained damage dealer (which by the way necro’s excel at). What im trying to say is, pick somthing you want to be able to accomplish and spec into it. But dont ask to be able to burst people down fast, be able to sustain and pump out massive damage, and complain that your 25 stacks of bleeds and whatever condition you desire aren’t doing enough damage all at the same time. I mean hell, if you want a full zerk necro, go right ahead im not saying you cant or shouldnt. Im simply saying you cant have everything.

I dont claim to be a necro pro, infact i would love to hear your counter arguments. To me it just seems like common sense is all

-Ducky

You mean besides the fact that necros before these changes weren’t really complaining about damage, save for condition necros in PvE/WvW where their high damage could be overwritten by some Kill Shot Warrior auto-attacking? Think about your Backstab being ignored because your target had already been hit three times this second by your ally. Yeah, you see the problem. That’s condition builds in general, though. The introduction of Torment was to help alleviate this problem as well as give necros a tool to deal with the people running away at will.

Damage was never a problem on the Necro front (Power was a little weak, but still decent. Pretty good now with Deathly Perception, and Axe Training being useable with Close to Death), it was always on the defense side. Necros have been incredibly easy to focus since launch because they have no method to avoid it and don’t have the burst ability to make their short lives worth it. But here’s the thing: we never asked for burst!

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

You mean besides the fact that necros before these changes weren’t really complaining about damage, save for condition necros in PvE/WvW where their high damage could be overwritten by some Kill Shot Warrior auto-attacking? Think about your Backstab being ignored because your target had already been hit three times this second by your ally. Yeah, you see the problem. That’s condition builds in general, though. The introduction of Torment was to help alleviate this problem as well as give necros a tool to deal with the people running away at will.

Damage was never a problem on the Necro front (Power was a little weak, but still decent. Pretty good now with Deathly Perception, and Axe Training being useable with Close to Death), it was always on the defense side. Necros have been incredibly easy to focus since launch because they have no method to avoid it and don’t have the burst ability to make their short lives worth it. But here’s the thing: we never asked for burst!

we asked for real survivability , i know ive stopped trying to waste my time with DS defensivly now , seeing as a thief 2 shot me through a 100% LF pool DS (30 soul reaping) and dropped me with 1 more hit after destroying DS (2 shots total to downed state) , what we need is REAL survivability , to say a “L2P” response is one who is about as ignorant as it comes , so many classes have so much REAL survivability , now with the DS dmg going into our actual health pool as well we have nothing to survive spike damage , other classes have evades , blocks , immunity , vigor , etc that all let them survive longer , and if you think going the “use weakness on the enemy more” response will fly , guess again. boss/champ mobs have this buff that makes that pretty much useless…..yea lol cause someone tried saying weakness was one of our defenses as well,,,,,for that to be true bosses would have to be reworked HARD for that to be even remotely true.