Guild Wars 2

I have a feeling after this post they are going nerf longbow…

Proilly something like this:

Jon: Due to balance issues we had to tone down the damage of longbow to keep it in-line with all other ranger weapons.

Terkov.4138:

Rufy.6093:

GC/LB as that is what I normally run. Been trying axe instead of LB in spvp and it seems better to me. As far as your video, I don’t see what zerge fights and idiotic players proves? A good warrior will stun lock you and kill you in 2 seconds.. a mesmer will dwindle you down and out do you. A necro will rip you apart. I ganked some weak players as well, doesn’t make my class good.

I showed video, you just keep writting. I guess I’m unlucky then, coz I met maybe few “good warriors” and they still couldn’t kill me. Atm it’s me stunlocking them (3 KDs + fear from pets alone).

Whatever, live in fantasy land. I’m playing my mesmer again and wrecking people. I hope they nerf ranger some more since it’s so OP.

3 days of playing zerker style. A few observations.

- zerker style = no stalemates. Someone is going to die..or they disengage and escape. Completely different than BM bunker.
- For most people, the more you play the better you get. I have tried zerker before and did alright but sure died a lot. I am slowly getting into a rhythm now and getting a feel for when to stay and when to get out of dodge. GS is great for that. Bunker is much more forgiving than zerker.
- I swapped Haste for Signet of Stone. More toughness doesn’t hurt but I like the 6 second ignore damage for both me and pet.
-It is a complete blast sniping a zerg tail. Killing someone in the back of a zerg, then getting away is a rush.
-I think many people are surprised by the damage. In most fights people are used to a certain rhythm and how they react during a fight. The damage from this throws them off.
- Had a duel vs a thief. Just melee…no stealth. I 3 shot him (+pet damage). If you are good at melee, GS hits very very hard.
- No way I have ever hit a 9k longshot. Highest is in the 4700 range.
-Just like Thieves, this play style is the culling of the weak. In zerg vs zerg you pick a target standing to the side and quickly gank him and get away….killing the tail of a zerg etc. I have a very hard time vs skilled players built for solo 1v1. Most likely one of our higher skilled Rangers would do better in those situations.

Overall very enjoyable so far.

Edit: Would really like another zerker LB Ranger as a duo partner in WvW. Did that a lot in Daoc back in the day and it was a hoot assisting on the same target and dropping him instantly.

Forzani.2584:

- No way I have ever hit a 9k longshot. Highest is in the 4700 range.

Were you burning SotH in addition to SotW?

jubskie.3152:

Forzani.2584:

- No way I have ever hit a 9k longshot. Highest is in the 4700 range.

Were you burning SotH in addition to SotW?

No I wasn’t. I didn’t think they stacked so was staggering them.

There’s your problem Check the vids, he always blows the SotH and SotW on the first attack since it’s a guaranteed crit.

jubskie.3152:

There’s your problem Check the vids, he always blows the SotH and SotW on the first attack since it’s a guaranteed crit.

Yep, I am itching to give it a try…but I am at work for next 8 hours

(I usually have SotH already cued up for initial arrow)

Forzani.2584:

Would really like another zerker LB Ranger as a duo partner in WvW. Did that a lot in Daoc back in the day and it was a hoot assisting on the same target and dropping him instantly.

If you’re on AR I’ll team up with you. One insane zerk ranger is a problem, two insane zerk rangers are a nightmare!

i played that kind of build for a while and yea it is fun in PVE. In wvw tho if only one ennemy decide to focuss you, you become useless since you are glass. If it’s a thief well you won’t be able to do kitten if he knows what he is doing. He may as well 2 shot you if he is zerker too. If you can have a zerg around you all the time there should be no problem tho. Also, i don’t believe long range shot can do over 4k if oponent isn’t an underlevel and has some toughness

salocinn.4120:

i played that kind of build for a while and yea it is fun in PVE. In wvw tho if only one ennemy decide to focuss you, you become useless since you are glass. If it’s a thief well you won’t be able to do kitten if he knows what he is doing. He may as well 2 shot you if he is zerker too. If you can have a zerg around you all the time there should be no problem tho. Also, i don’t believe long range shot can do over 4k if oponent isn’t an underlevel and has some toughness

Yea, Thieves are bad news…but, where there is bad, there is good ! when I play my bunker/regen/condi build a Thief can kill someone right in front of me…and I can’t do a thing about it. with Zerker build, he will die…and stealth won’t prevent it.

So sometimes the bear eats you…and sometimes you eat the bear. I can live with that.

@ Taku and everyone that is interested:
I got now Full valkyrie set + runes + 5% more dmg sigil, the only thing im currently missing is the sigil of bloodlust, which i will hopefully buy tomorrow. I got bufffood with power and +10% crit dmg. So im nearly ready to start and tested the dmg a few minutes ago . Here are some little teasers. (I played with longbow and greatsword vs upleveld and not upleveld targets)

Upleveld:
GS attack 2: 17,142 (one hit)
Longbow AA: 12,902(20% hp left, ran away)

lvl 80
vs Necro GS attack 2: 13,666 (without frost spirit, ~30% hp left run away)
vs Ele GS attack 2: 13,668 (without frost spirit, +1 attack from pet and he was down)
vs Ranger attack 2:13,673 (had 80% hp, down in one hit)
vs Guardian Longbow: 8,900

I did some more, but these are just some examples of the higher ones. There were many lower ones,especially with the longbow, but overall it really sucks to play with valkyre, compared to my set where you still crit alot and do alot of dmg even if the first shot dealt low dmg. You won’t deal any dmg after your first shot. You are a little tankier but still it sucks.

But i never really critted a 80 target with the longbow higher than 9k. In fact i didn’t even reach 9k. But i got close so compared to my build u gain 2k dmg on your autoattack vs 80 targets.(i critted with 7700 max if i remember correct)
Vs upleveld Targets i feel like i can still crit higher with the longbow but i got to test that.

GS: You crit vs 80 Targets ~13k this was pretty much my dmg always. I tried it vs guardians but its hard to find a lonely one that doesnt have Aegis up. Couldn’t find any other heavy targets today .
Vs Uplvld i think there is no real limit. I can probably beat the 20k with the sigil of bloodlust.

So i’d say the max dmg you can deal with the longbow is 14k vs upleveld targets, and 10k vs 80. Everyone that says “uhhhh i critted much higher”—-> screenshot or didn’t happen. This is the max dmg build/traits afaik, but this build is unplayable because u only crit with your opening strike. So i guess no one is running this as his defalult build, when u already start crying about how my build sucks. So post a pic or be quiet. You can’t crit over 10k with the longbow if you got a standard zerk build!!!!
With the Greatsword 2 Attack im guessing you can deal up to 20k dmg, vs upleveld targets, and probably 15k vs lvl 80s.
I will make a video in the next 2 days showing off the highest hits that i was able to do.

The screenshot means in english you dealt ~17k with maul

and for anyone interested this is a 3 sec video vs one of the lvl 80s:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rpocNFUpBc&feature=youtu.be

Nice one, bit surprised that it went that much over the 10k mark.

But as I said in my earlier post that it is just a fun build to see how big of a crit it’s possible to do.

Yeah i was suprised at first, because i downed the first one instant and then proceeded to kill him while 3 people attacked me, so i thought “wow im tanky” this could actually also work as a build. But in the end its not as effective as my default build.

Gonna update tomorrow or friday with a little video showing how high you can crit. But im still not sure if i can use Bloodlust sigil effective, because i die in 50% of the cases. So it’ll cost a lot of time stacking that one up every time.
I also didn’t use the greatsword with valkyre stats, so there is still room left for higher crits.

Forzani.2584:

3 days of playing zerker style. A few observations.

- zerker style = no stalemates. Someone is going to die..or they disengage and escape. Completely different than BM bunker.
- For most people, the more you play the better you get. I have tried zerker before and did alright but sure died a lot. I am slowly getting into a rhythm now and getting a feel for when to stay and when to get out of dodge. GS is great for that. Bunker is much more forgiving than zerker.
- I swapped Haste for Signet of Stone. More toughness doesn’t hurt but I like the 6 second ignore damage for both me and pet.
-It is a complete blast sniping a zerg tail. Killing someone in the back of a zerg, then getting away is a rush.
-I think many people are surprised by the damage. In most fights people are used to a certain rhythm and how they react during a fight. The damage from this throws them off.
- Had a duel vs a thief. Just melee…no stealth. I 3 shot him (+pet damage). If you are good at melee, GS hits very very hard.
- No way I have ever hit a 9k longshot. Highest is in the 4700 range.
-Just like Thieves, this play style is the culling of the weak. In zerg vs zerg you pick a target standing to the side and quickly gank him and get away….killing the tail of a zerg etc. I have a very hard time vs skilled players built for solo 1v1. Most likely one of our higher skilled Rangers would do better in those situations.

Overall very enjoyable so far.

Edit: Would really like another zerker LB Ranger as a duo partner in WvW. Did that a lot in Daoc back in the day and it was a hoot assisting on the same target and dropping him instantly.

This.. it’s pretty much all or nothing, either you die or the enemy dies. Very rarely does someone get away. I’ve been running the zerker build ever since my Ranger entered WvW as I just don’t have the patience for long drawn out fights. If your in BM bunker build, your literally relying on your group for damage output while you heal, harass, or try to goad someone into 1v1 in the group (which doesn’t happen if their smart).

When I tried BM bunker out, I sure did survive much longer, but the problem is, if my group doesn’t kill them off, I’m basically left by myself against possibly 5+ targets. Needless to say, I’m dead. Going full zerker, the groups we face are literally dead in less than 10 seconds.

I died a lot at the beginning, but you learn to read your enemies moves and it becomes much easier to survive. I play WvW every day (2-4hrs), and I think my record is 4 days without dying. If your a Norn, it also helps to keep snow leapord in your skills as it comes in very handy if your alone trying to reach your group.

Didn’t the original suggestion say to use Sigil of Intelligence so you get a guaranteed crit every swap? A 8.9k~ crit every 9 seconds seems ok, or you can do a “double burst” with 2 longbows. First crit hit is from Opening Strike, swap immediately to do the 2nd crit hit with the Sigil.

@jubskie: Yes it did say. But if i can onehit someone i dont need a second hit.
Also the 2nd hit wouldn’t crit for 8~9k since you only have Signet of the hunt for the first. So i guess it’ll be around 5,5-7,5k, on lvl 80 targets. I choose not to play with it mainly because i made the experience already that it’s really a onehit build especially if you go with Greatsword. And therefore the 2nd crit could be a really nice addition, but i still think the build is less fun and less working than mine. That’s at least my experience from ~2hours playing.
With Longbow i’d say you better play with my Over 9000 build, because you will be hitting also up to 8,8k (i rewatched some vids and i was able to do that vs an 80 Ele) and then still proceed to deal high dmg afterwards.
Onehits with the Greatsword are funny but you have to be in melee range and cant waste your first attack on your gap closer 3 (it also deals over 10k). So it’s a really weird playstyle. So basically here 2 greatswords, with the Sigil of intelligence could be helpfull, which i notice now while i am writing this ^^(this means you loose 5% dmg on the 2nd greatsword, because of the sigoil of intelligence)
But then agian i have to farm another GS and the sigil and im already out of money :P Will need some time.

Await a video this weekend i’d say.

If you activate Signet of the Hunt it’s effect will remain for about 16 minutes so you can have the signet off CD when firing the first shot, as soon as it hits, switch to second LB and pop the signet again for another 12k hit.

Ah ok i get it now … well yes that’s pretty neat well then still farming some money….

Is this viable in PvE Dungeons and FoTM? I’m kinda having a hard time seeing the viability of this, because Signet of the Hunt and Signet of the Wild are only temporary boosts with large cooldowns.

Kain Francois.4328:

Is this viable in PvE Dungeons and FoTM? I’m kinda having a hard time seeing the viability of this, because Signet of the Hunt and Signet of the Wild are only temporary boosts with large cooldowns.

Those are just for really big hits. If you’re using the 100% crit chance or the over 9000 build, you’ll still see a lot of 3k~4k crits on your normal auto attacks.

Interesting but no survivability lol, all it takes it sicking one thief from their group to kill/attack you and there goes your role in the group – they don’t even need to kill you, that’s the thing , by simply giving you pressure, your job is useless now and you’re no longer pegging important players in the group you’re fighting as you’re preoccupied by the thief and now will need your teammates or atleast one more teammate to pull back and help you as you’re glass and if you get even hit once by a glass thief you’re almost dead (which takes now 2-3 people out of the picture in your entire group, allowing the group you’d be fighting to roll over your frontline). Just confused on how this could even be considered in a competent and top tier roaming group build. Does look fun for kittens and giggles though as I’ve always been a fan of high crit numbers and why I like that high crit maul build as well.

What am I doing wrong? I’m running the same exact build (with +5% crit chance instead of dmg sigil), but I hit only 5.9k.

30-30-0-10-0 with spirit of frost active, and the two signets.

A normal mob in wvw prolly has more toughness than an uplevelled elementalist

My tests:

snow Wolf… 6k
White Moa… 5.2k

Is it my gear? I doubt it’d make a 3k dmg difference…

Kain Francois.4328:

My tests:

snow Wolf… 6k
White Moa… 5.2k

Is it my gear? I doubt it’d make a 3k dmg difference…

You can definitely bump your stats up a bit still via gear.

Get all ascended trinkets and back brace, stack bloodlust, dragon buns, and don’t forget to shoot from the target’s back.

3200 pattack is kind of low IMO. You should be around 4k without stacking might.

To all the poeple talking about thiefs….Im really tired of all you talking about “blablabla”. This is what i do to 99% of all thiefs! :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGSm2uW7jAM&feature=youtu.be

Today i’ve met the first thief that had skill (not the one of the vid), and i still nearly killed him with that kittenty build. Im 90% sure i would’ve killed him with my build, because i missed both my 2 and 3 attack from GS and he then had a easy game. With my build i would still have dealt high dmg afterwards.
Also in the vid, my currently highest AA(11,5k / not sure if frost spirit did apply, it was probably to late) from longbow vs lvl 80 target. The 25 might stacking sucks as hell, and im so happy when im done with this and i can go back to my over 9000 build,because it really sucks and makes no fun, compared to mine, at least that’s my experience from now ~4 hours WvW(and i feel like half of it from 25 might stacking -,- ). Update tomorrow evening.

@Kain Francois: There is a picture in my guide on gw2guru, you can see my stats just there . 3500 attack, so you should be around 3,4-3,6k with the berserker set….

With Valkyre set = 3,946
+ Trait Strenght of spirit = 4,037

So the reason why we build valkyre was because of the dmg from vitality. And the difference is sooo little…
With Valkyre i get ~80 more Power with berserker i get ~50 more. That basically says already enough. But i learned that using the 100more Power + 10% Crit food is probably also better with my build.

Ryan.8367:

Interesting but no survivability lol, all it takes it sicking one thief from their group to kill/attack you and there goes your role in the group – they don’t even need to kill you, that’s the thing , by simply giving you pressure, your job is useless now and you’re no longer pegging important players in the group you’re fighting as you’re preoccupied by the thief and now will need your teammates or atleast one more teammate to pull back and help you as you’re glass and if you get even hit once by a glass thief you’re almost dead (which takes now 2-3 people out of the picture in your entire group, allowing the group you’d be fighting to roll over your frontline). Just confused on how this could even be considered in a competent and top tier roaming group build. Does look fun for kittens and giggles though as I’ve always been a fan of high crit numbers and why I like that high crit maul build as well.

While this is in fact true, this rarely happens. As frequently as I play (on TC), for 2-4 hours a night, I rarely ever see a thief single me out. It does happen occasionally and I can always get away and continue fighting. I used to die from thieves if I was running solo to my group, but that rarely happens anymore either.

With zerg vs zerg battles, there is so much going on, thieves have to worry about their own bacon as well. There was a case last night where one actually did attack me and a warrior came and flattened them in 2 seconds..

Thieves have a major advantage with roaming and running solo, unfortunately, they are next to useless in group/zerg fights if they are running that same solo/roaming build.

As I said, I play on TC where we’ve had small and very large battles with SoR, DB, FA, SoS, Mags, and EB. I’ve gone days without dying, despite being in these large battles, so the build works. Part of what makes it work does rely on your either your front line holding the enemies at bay for 3-5 seconds, or the enemies not smart enough to charge through. If the front line holds them, between barrage and rapid fire, and the fire sigil I use, I can pull out well over 20K in damage to at least 5 of the enemies front line in a matter of a few seconds. Which will equate to a pile of those cute little downed arrows.

I’ve tried both the traps and BM bunker build, and they are not nearly as effective as full glass due to the fact your basically relying on your groups damage output to win the battle. Problem is, more often than not, most of the group is spec’d for defense as well. If the enemies have more heavy damage dealers, your group is pretty much done for.

Aridia.3042:

Kain Francois.4328:

My tests:

snow Wolf… 6k
White Moa… 5.2k

Is it my gear? I doubt it’d make a 3k dmg difference…

You can definitely bump your stats up a bit still via gear.

Get all ascended trinkets and back brace, stack bloodlust, dragon buns, and don’t forget to shoot from the target’s back.

3200 pattack is kind of low IMO. You should be around 4k without stacking might.

But the 9k dmg build in the first post doesn’t use bloodlust or dragon buns… Will a backbrace and ascended trinkets really make such a huge difference in autoattack damage? We’re talking a difference of 3k damage.

Well I wasn’t saying thieves were hard, I was just explaining a class’s ability to pressure you, thus taking you out of the battle. Which is effective and happens quite a bit. Nobody is crying about thieves or ‘blablablaing’ about thieves. It is what it is and against a good comp group you’re going to run into that, it’ll either be a warrior or a thief. Simply taking you out of the battle is enough, whether they kill your or not isn’t the point.

Kain Francois.4328:

But the 9k dmg build in the first post doesn’t use bloodlust or dragon buns… Will a backbrace and ascended trinkets really make such a huge difference in autoattack damage? We’re talking a difference of 3k damage.

I realize that, but those things I mentioned could be done easily to bump those stats up with no downside. I don’t run the OP’s build as I feel it’s too heavy a price to pay, being a utility hog and being forced to trait beastmastery which loses piercing is not acceptable to me for zerg surfing. That said, build might be different but the principle is the same, stack things that give you pattack and crit dmg.

Like I said before, 9k is doable on an uplvl soft target without using signets or spirits. Your crit dmg is also off by 15% compared with mine.

My stats there is just completely self buffed after killing a target with warhorn and dragon buns.

3.7k damage from flame blast!! O_O

You did 12.7k damage in that one shot :O

Kain Francois.4328:

My tests:

snow Wolf… 6k
White Moa… 5.2k

Is it my gear? I doubt it’d make a 3k dmg difference…

Even without all ascended gear you should at least end up like this in my picture. Only one ascended trinket in my gear, no stacks, food (not even the best one), fury, 30/30/0/10/0, all zerker and the back-item is soldiers.

Big Update: I created a new Topic “23k Maul and more / WvW Max Dmg Ranger Video” to move all the max dmg stuff which is kind of not related to the build and makes the topic here a little messed up.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/23k-Maul-and-more-WvW-Max-Dmg-Ranger-Video/first#post2399695

So please if you got question depending the over 9000 build/101% crit chance ask them here. Otherwise move to the max dmg topic. Thanks.
I also updated the guide a little with Sigil of Fire.

Indeed, ranger DPS is the new meta.

Grayback.7148:

Kain Francois.4328:

My tests:

snow Wolf… 6k
White Moa… 5.2k

Is it my gear? I doubt it’d make a 3k dmg difference…

Even without all ascended gear you should at least end up like this in my picture. Only one ascended trinket in my gear, no stacks, food (not even the best one), fury, 30/30/0/10/0, all zerker and the back-item is soldiers.

How do you get such high crit rate? Both of us are using full zerker with ranger runes?

And does 200 power and 10% crit% dmg really make such a huge difference?

I’d like to hear someone else’s numbers on a Snow Wolf or Moose?

@Kain Francois: you should not try your dmg on mobs. They all have pretty high armour i’d say. Just give it a try on eles/rangers/thiefs lvl 80s. You should crit these with 7k at least.

My try on mobs (with my build):
white moa : 5,7k ( you can deal 5% more dmg, im using Sigil of air atm)
snow wolf: 6,3k

And Sigil of bloodlust makes a HUGE difference, just imagine 250 more power. Our traits only give us 300 more power. That basically means we have 30 skillpoints more in traits compared to a ranger without the sigil. That’s also a good reason why the bonus is lost on down… (I rarely use it i hate that stupid farming)

Also for you a little tip:
~60% crit chance is a full zerk build without bufffood.
~110% crit dmg with bufffood
These are stats you should be able to get with no problem…

Kain Francois.4328:

Grayback.7148:

Kain Francois.4328:

My tests:

snow Wolf… 6k
White Moa… 5.2k

Is it my gear? I doubt it’d make a 3k dmg difference…

Even without all ascended gear you should at least end up like this in my picture. Only one ascended trinket in my gear, no stacks, food (not even the best one), fury, 30/30/0/10/0, all zerker and the back-item is soldiers.

How do you get such high crit rate? Both of us are using full zerker with ranger runes?

And does 200 power and 10% crit% dmg really make such a huge difference?

I’d like to hear someone else’s numbers on a Snow Wolf or Moose?

Like mentioned in my first post, yes, full zerker. But that’s even the cheap version I use, which means ruby orbs and no runes. Also no stacks and only “artisan oil” and “minotaur steak”, so, yeah, the cheap variant I’d say

Maybe I can do some testing later…

e: oh, by the way, forgot to mention that I don’t possess zerker weapons, so these stats are with clerics weapons.

jubskie.3152:

3.7k damage from flame blast!! O_O

You did 12.7k damage in that one shot :O

It’s an uplvl that ran full glass. So not that impressive in that sense.

Aridia.3042:

jubskie.3152:

3.7k damage from flame blast!! O_O

You did 12.7k damage in that one shot :O

It’s an uplvl that ran full glass. So not that impressive in that sense.

It is for a long range shot. If you can hit 4-5k hits on lvl80s that aren’t glass, that is good damage. Not a roamer build but still. Can you imagine a group of 5 rangers focus firing someong with that kind of auto attack? One day a zerg will come with glass rangers in the back line putting out a lot of hurt from 1000+ range. Just you wait.

nagymbear.5280:

Aridia.3042:

jubskie.3152:

3.7k damage from flame blast!! O_O

You did 12.7k damage in that one shot :O

It’s an uplvl that ran full glass. So not that impressive in that sense.

It is for a long range shot. If you can hit 4-5k hits on lvl80s that aren’t glass, that is good damage. Not a roamer build but still. Can you imagine a group of 5 rangers focus firing someong with that kind of auto attack? One day a zerg will come with glass rangers in the back line putting out a lot of hurt from 1000+ range. Just you wait.

Yes, yes I can. Did that for kittens and giggles in daoc once in awhile. Too funny. I need to find a Ranger partner or two to try it in WvW on my server…SoS

this will be never happen with a zerg..its nice to get “so much” singel target dmg but the aoe from ele,thiefs,necros,engis and worris is still stronger..:/

Ehhhh..this is Maul Build…This has existed for a while now..

Its fun every now and again for kittens and giggles (who doesn’t love popping a thief for 10k damage) but the problem comes when you miss…Or you’re blinded ect ect..

By the way, Sylvan is the absolute best Race for this type of spec because their root doesn’t do damage, so it won’t eat your attack…Meaning you can root someone, then pop them in the face.

In a zerg with remoresless, I’ve found it very good, Xsorsus. Of course, if the enemy recognizes that you’re trying to Maul first instead of swoop + hilt bash, then, well, the cat’s out of the bag. You are right, they can blind, etc. most people aren’t that smart, Xsorsus, although I respect the idea of always assuming your enemy is better than you and can ‘see it coming’.

My problem with Zergs fights with it, was yes..I could kill that one guy… But generally the fight was over anyway depending on who had the bigger zerg.

It is funny though popping people with 10k damage hits.. and I imagine it’d be a lot more fun if I had the Sylvan Root ability.

True that!

/15chara

13.017 Dmg with one Single Shot :-P anyone Higher? ( only with 11 Stacks of Might )

( i was not fully selfbuffed kitten ^^ )

Hadrians.4567:

13.017 Dmg with one Single Shot :-P anyone Higher? ( only with 11 Stacks of Might )

( i was not fully selfbuffed kitten ^^ )

Let’s not go down that path. We will end up getting longbow autoattack nerfed.

Its vs an Upleveled Target and just look at Warriors now with Axe Finisher they do 15-20k Dmg easily

Hadrians.4567:

13.017 Dmg with one Single Shot :-P anyone Higher? ( only with 11 Stacks of Might )

( i was not fully selfbuffed kitten ^^ )

For either big crits or dmg overall more precision than power is never a good idea. Thumbs down =(