Guild Wars 2

Copypasta from my thread in GW2Guru to save time.

As much as I want to like the 1H Sword, I find this absolutely impossible to use this in PvE outside of the starting areas. Why? I can’t interrupt my ¹ when I want to. I mean, I get the idea: the ability is designed to stick to a target with ease. Sweet, that’s awesome in sPvP. But in PvE, the sheer unresponsiveness just gets you killed, repeatedly.

The problem is that the 2nd strike is a Charge/Dash, and the 3rd strike is a Leap. NEITHER of these can be cancelled by inputting a different skill or dodging. Compare that against long animation abilities like Barrage – if I want to stop the animation halfway through (y’know, because a monster is about to beat on me) I can.

Even worse, trying to input ² or ³ when I want them to (because that’s the point of having two evade skills on the bar) actually tends to cause both the 2nd AND 3rd hits to resolve before anything happens, sometimes even looping back to the 1st hit before I get any response. Too little too late, because all that time spent waiting means an instagib or near-instagib ability just smacked me in the face.

I would absolutely love it if at least Dashes could be cancelled. Heck, that would be darn useful for every profession. Cancelling leaps would be kinda odd with the whole changing direction in midair thing, but such a feature would go a really long way to help the controls feel more responsive.

yes. I notice this constantly in sPvP after I have downed an opponent.. I continue to hit it, unable to finish it because the cycle of attacks is still active. Would be very nice if this was looked in to

Its annoying in PVP as well. Not being able to dodge or use abilities because you’re locked in the attack animation can cost you. If they could somehow make dodging or using a different ability break the animation, it would be perfect.

Agreed. I turned off the auto attack for the 1h sword and that works a lot better for me. Maybe try that for now.

Got ninja’d while making a similar topic, so I’ll post it here.

I use 1 hand sword and dagger all the time because it is a fun set to use with useful skills however it does feel like it is a bit bad compared to pretty much any other weapon.

1. Auto attack has two leaps in it. This is the biggest problem with the weapon as a whole because it stops you kiting an enemy with it. You can get about 5 degrees around an enemy before you’re locked into two leaps and sometimes snapped back to where you started the first hit.
Secondly, these leaps are unable to be cancelled easily, if at all. From any other weapon I’ve played with, dodging will cancel the animation and make you roll. During the leaps, you can’t roll out of the way, or even move, and end up taking damage from an attack you could’ve avoided with any other weapon. Then the times you do roll out of an AoE and the attack chain is on the 2nd/3rd hit, you’ll immediately leap back into it.

I imagined that the sword had two evasion skills on it because of this auto attack but you cannot cancel the chain by using either of the evasion skills which quashed that theory.

2.Hornet Sting is a little slow. To be honest, this is a probably a problem with trying to queue it during/after the 1 chain. However I notice that the skill puts a sword stab in before leaping out. Couldn’t you immediately leap out leaving a 1sec duration swarm of bees (like Frenzy (speargun skill 3)). It’d certainly make it more useful as a dodge skill considering it isn’t a damage skill at all.

3.Serpent strike rolls sideways instead of around the enemy. I’ve been watching this skill on many surfaces but I cannot nail down what causes the skill to roll to the right and entirely miss the enemy. Sometimes it works and it’s beautiful to use but missing is a bit annoying. This skill messing up is why I prefer to use the Dagger to poison instead.

Those are my concerns with the weapon itself. The concept is good and certainly more interesting to use than others, especially with two dodges on it but in practice it is a little lacklustre.

It’s very annoying that when you’re using a sword, you sometimes gets killed because you can’t move away from the thing you’re attacking, especially dungeons and PvP.

This could be one of the most fun weapons in the game, but instead it is one of the most awkward and frustrating, alongside the engineer’s buggy flamethrower and tedious grenades. It’s not like you get a whole lot of other options for ranger melee either. Greastsword is the only other melee weapon and despite the name it isn’t especially great.

Just remove the animation lock. Considering that the chain cripples anyways it isn’t even useful for keeping on a target, while also making the weapon super unresponsive and extremely difficult to position yourself with.

Vargs.6234:

This could be one of the most fun weapons in the game, but instead it is one of the most awkward and frustrating, alongside the engineer’s buggy flamethrower and tedious grenades. It’s not like you get a whole lot of other options for ranger melee either. Greastsword is the only other melee weapon and despite the name it isn’t especially great.

Just remove the animation lock. Considering that the chain cripples anyways it isn’t even useful for keeping on a target, while also making the weapon super unresponsive and extremely difficult to position yourself with.

Disagree. Greatsword for the ranger is the most useful greatsword in the game. Sure it doesn’t have as much flat damage as some of the other classes have with it, yet it has huge control and passive survivability. Not to mention the coolest gap closer in the game.

With that said. I do agree that they need to work on the sword a little. And give it some traits that apply to sword!

It feels like Beta. This is mentioned every time and each time I read it, I sit here sighing and shake my head in lack of understanding. So again, let me pick up the banner for the Ranger Sword and defend it.

It is GOOD. It is WONDERFUL. It is AWESOME.
So basically, what the complainers talk about is something that they misunderstood. Mouseover your skill 1. Look at the range. That is right, you have TWO LEAPS in there. Show me one leap in the entire game that you can cancel midflight by dodging. There is none, as this is against the game mechanic. You can swap your weapon midflight, which cancels it, correct, but that is no dodge.

The Sword for the Ranger is a unique way to alter the profession skills for the same weapon. It has a great amount of mobility, especially with a dagger. You can even leap between two or three enemies, making you nigh-invulnerable because you are constantly on the move. Yes, this requires some skill and practice, but it is a rewarding weapon.
The game works best if you view a weapon of what it CAN do, not what it SHOULD do. And then you tailor your playstyle and traits and gear around it. Around the weapon.

So first, turn your autoattack off, as already suggested. It will massively help you. Especially once you get more endurance regeneration, the 50% from the passive, and then vigor. Since you already have several autoevade attacks in your weapon combination, you naturally need less endurance for dodge, and can use your dodging as a weaving combination of rolling back, and lunge at the enemy, rolling back, and lunge again. Wrapping my head around the concept of the weapon, instead of forcing my wants on the weapon skills, it made me the most durable and longlasting character in melee fights because things just simply do not hit me anymore and I can almost assure that I have always a way to dodge. If it is not endurance, it is firing off one of the skills in the right moment.

I have no idea why people complain about 2. It lacks responsiveness? Well maybe because it hits the enemy first before you evade back… however… in the hitting sequence I’ve observed that you already evade attacks BEFORE you start rolling back. The only alternative I could think about is removing the damage from Hornet sting for an instant roll back, only to make Monarch Leap hit harder than it already does.

The observed “dashing just right without hitting the enemy” with Serpent’s strike is an issue with targeting in the engine. If you have something else targeted than the enemy you want to hit, it dashes TOWARDS that target even if it is out of range. That is a bad thing, and that should be fixed.
If you observe, without a target, you do a rather big roll to the right already. Why it works against a single target in melee range is, that since you autoface the target, the roll sideways transforms to a roll around the enemy… due to the facing.

So let me sum it up:

SWORD 1: It is fine. The only thing that would like to see changed is to have the combo NOT reset when you press any other button before the 3 second reset is over. It works with Sword 2. You can roll back, use another skill, and jump in using 2 again in the time span of the reset.
SWORD 2: It is fine. Alternately removing damage from the roll to be more responsive and add the damage to the followup charge, but honestly, it is fine as it is.
SWORD 3: Please fix it so it prioritizes targets in range over those not in range so we do not awkwardly roll SOMEWHERE and miss.

Closing word: the ranger Sword is a wonderfully unique weapon that helps defining itself greatly. Any major change would only water it down.

Vargs.6234:

This could be one of the most fun weapons in the game, but instead it is one of the most awkward and frustrating, alongside the engineer’s buggy flamethrower and tedious grenades. It’s not like you get a whole lot of other options for ranger melee either. Greastsword is the only other melee weapon and despite the name it isn’t especially great.

Just remove the animation lock. Considering that the chain cripples anyways it isn’t even useful for keeping on a target, while also making the weapon super unresponsive and extremely difficult to position yourself with.

As easy as removing the animation lock would be, I refuse to consider that a solution because of how unique the animation lock makes the Ranger Sword. All that needs to happen is the ability to actually use your 1 and 2 as soon as you hit them.

Also, the Greatsword…it’s honestly pretty good, but it’s also really boring. Just 1 and 2 all day long…you don’t even have to dodge all the time because of the 3rd chain being an evade XD

I run a ranger with sword/dagger and shortbow. Not running into these problems really except for the snake roll going to the side and missing. It seems like if you hold your directional key towards the enemy as you roll you hook them…maybe its just my imagination though.

Also a good skill lineup is this:

snake roll (3), poison dagger (4), hornet sting (fly back)(2-tap once), throw dagger (5), hit 2 again to return to enemy, repeat if necessary (probably wont be)

you can cancel it if you don’t have it set as your auto attack (ctrl+right click it so there’s no arrows around the ability) however that does lead to you having to auto attack manually for each strike.

Fateless.6985:

Disagree. Greatsword for the ranger is the most useful greatsword in the game. Sure it doesn’t have as much flat damage as some of the other classes have with it, yet it has huge control and passive survivability. Not to mention the coolest gap closer in the game.

Greatsword does very low damage — its autoattack, for example, does about 64% [edit: correction, 70% — forgot to account for difference in weapon damage] as much damage as the sword autoattack, and using all appropriate damage skills (i.e. those that do more DPS than the autoattack), it does just over half as much damage as guardian or warrior greatsword (ignoring profession mechanics). It does have a strong toolkit; the damage is just severely lacking.

I don’t get where your numbers come from, since autoattack damage of Greatsword is always slightly higher than onehanded sword.

Ranger damage is ALWAYS low compared to other professions, because the pet is dedicated to be a core part of your damage. The pet is an essential part of your damage. I would like to know how many people remember that in Guild Wars1, the highest singletarget damage you can achieve as Ranger… is going full beastmaster and control your pet to do the damage.
And it is exactly that toolkit of the greatsword that enables it to have this much more usability within a fight.
The next thing that is forgotten is: wider arc of hitting and every hit counts as a conal AoE, and in addition to that, it has shorter cooldowns on 2 and 3 compared to 1hand sword.

But back to topic. I saw that my post above was apparently in the same minute than someone elses and might have been blotched out. Ah well, in short, I still hope Arenanet does not change the base attack of the 1hand sword. Partly because it seems to be the “weapon of advanced skill” choice.

Khunvyel.3972:

I don’t get where your numbers come from, since autoattack damage of Greatsword is always slightly higher than onehanded sword.

I tested it. Feel free to test it yourself if you doubt me. Sword hits for .6+.6+.7=1.9 multiplier in 1.80 (±.03) seconds. Greatsword hits for 0.55+0.55+0.65=1.7 multiplier in 2.60 (±.03) seconds.

Edit: On AoE strength, it is notable that kick (the second attack, .6 multiplier) only hits one target. Slash (the first attack) is a frontal cone like most melee attacks, while Pounce (the third attack) seems to be a general AoE (not only frontal).

Edit: Sorry, forgot to account for greatswords having 10% larger weapon damage than swords. So greatsword #1 actually does 70% as much damage as sword #1.

Khunvyel.3972:

I have no idea why people complain about 2. It lacks responsiveness? Well maybe because it hits the enemy first before you evade back… however… in the hitting sequence I’ve observed that you already evade attacks BEFORE you start rolling back. The only alternative I could think about is removing the damage from Hornet sting for an instant roll back, only to make Monarch Leap hit harder than it already does.

Just tested this and you can still get hit during the strike (before the roll). So it does lack responsiveness, and that’s the whole complaint against it.

My general thoughts on 1h sword are thus:

I would first note that I love the animation for the #1 chain. That alone is reason enough for me to hope it never gets changed into an ordinary autoattack. But that’s not to say I think the weapon’s gameplay is perfect as it is. So let’s move on to the gameplay.

As Khunvyel noted, ranger damage tends to be low compared to other professions to compensate for the pet’s contribution. Thus, greatsword, longbow, and axe all do fairly low damage. Sword and shortbow are exceptions, however — they are competitive with other professions’ melee weapons (warrior’s and guardian’s are the numbers I’m looking at). I’m not sure what the deal is with shortbow — it does require flanking to compete in this way, but its fire rate is so high that I sort of suspect it’s unintentional. But shortbow aside, this leaves sword as an outlier damage-wise. Therefore, one might argue that the inability to interrupt the attack sequence is a reasonable tradeoff for the sword’s high damage.

I leveled my ranger from 2 to (currently) 74 using sword as my primary weapon the whole way. I used torch off-hand — would have loved to use dagger, but its lack of AoE is prohibitive. The sword/torch/cat (pet) combination kills lone opponents insanely quickly and has no trouble against small groups. For larger groups I kept the greatsword on weapon swap. I had no trouble leveling this way — indeed I don’t recall any instance where the sword’s unresponsiveness got me killed (though it came close a few times). So I certainly do not consider the sword an unviable weapon by any means.

Now, the ranger is far from my first character. For most creatures, I am well familiar with what they cast and roughly when they cast it. As a result, I was generally able to predict when a dangerous attack was coming and stop attacking in time to evade it. This leads to Khunvyel’s “weapon of advanced skill” argument — and my response is that it depends on what sort of skill is in question. Sword #1 locks out movement and dodging for up to ~1 second while it is in use. This means that for most opponent moves, you have to predict them in advance before the cast even starts. There is certainly skill in predicting what the opponent will do next.

But what of other forms of skill? During most of the attack sequence, you cannot move, cannot dodge, and cannot use any other skills. This rules out reaction (at least in many cases). It rules out the use of careful positioning and movement to outrange, sidestep, or LoS an attack. You can only stand there and attack. On my warrior, I can use greatsword/hammer combination to take on 10+ enemies at once through judicious cycling of my evades, cripples, stuns, and knockbacks along with appropriate kiting and positioning. I can solo difficult ranged champions by utilizing a combination of evasion and cover. I cannot perform similar feats of skill with the ranger — or if I can, it’s primarily due to pet tanking, which is not particularly skillful. With the sword, either I’m attacking and standing still in front of the enemies, or I’m not attacking at all.

Thus far I have left out mention of the ability to take advantage of Pounce’s range to leap around the battlefield. Indeed, the fast targeting requirements introduce a pretty high skill ceiling for the use of this ability. You could probably use this capability to perform some pretty impressive feats. Unfortunately, this is also a pretty clear case of “playing the UI, not the game” that Arenanet expressly tries to avoid. It would be fun if Pounce were ground-targeted, but having to juggle targets in this way is not a skill I particularly want to master. (Actually if Pounce were ground-targeted I’d probably love the weapon, but I doubt it’ll happen given that it even further breaks the autoattack function.)

On second thought, despite saying I doubt it’s going to happen, I’ll advocate it anyway. Make Pounce ground-targeted!

My main complaints about the sword are-

1. Despite its animation displaying great agility, the actual effect of the sword attack chain is basically a self-immobilize (unless you juggle targets). This does not sit well with me from a believability standpoint.
2. Making full use of Pounce requires quick juggling of targets — playing the UI in an ugly way.
3. In places where position is highly sensitive (e.g. jumping puzzles), a mistarget while attacking can cause Pounce to send you flying off a cliff or the like.

Changing Pounce to ground-targeting would solve all of these.

Control + Right click. I found out the hard way. It’s auto attack enabled. Also check settings, uncheck promote skill target, and uncheck melee assist if you’d like.

Aseyhe.2948:

On second thought, despite saying I doubt it’s going to happen, I’ll advocate it anyway. Make Pounce ground-targeted!

My main complaints about the sword are-

1. Despite its animation displaying great agility, the actual effect of the sword attack chain is basically a self-immobilize (unless you juggle targets). This does not sit well with me from a believability standpoint.
2. Making full use of Pounce requires quick juggling of targets — playing the UI in an ugly way.
3. In places where position is highly sensitive (e.g. jumping puzzles), a mistarget while attacking can cause Pounce to send you flying off a cliff or the like.

Changing Pounce to ground-targeting would solve all of these.

The only problem with hat is you’d have to pick a ground target every single second. xD

Turn off Promote skill target, and turn off auto attack Control + Right mouse. You are now free to melee properly. Pounce isn’t really a position control as much as catching a fleeing foe.

Sword user since level 2, now 80.

I love all the skills. Serpent Strike is a bit cluncky but its OK because with the current waqy it works you can use it as a gap closer too.

My problem is being unable to quit comboing 1 1 1… I try to dodge, but I need to mash the button 100 times before it works or use manual attack, which sucks when you run quickness…

I just chalked 1h Sword up as being useless and used other weapons. I really like swords and would use it if I could move around whilst attacking.

I love the 1H sword, but #1 does lock you into attacking an enemy, the only way I find I can get out of a situation is by switching to my alt weapon and dodging back.

LanceHavenbay.2067:

Turn off Promote skill target, and turn off auto attack Control + Right mouse. You are now free to melee properly. Pounce isn’t really a position control as much as catching a fleeing foe.

Naturally I have had autoattacking and all auto-targeting disabled since the beginning. If I stop attacking, I am free to move. But as long as I attack I am immobilized, unless I juggle targets to take advantage of Pounce. That is the issue.

Getting stuck repeatedly leaping at you target really sucks and is rarely ever useful. It is due to the 2nd and 3rd skills in the chain being 400 and 430 range leaps. I don’t see why those skills are leaps anyway. If you got into range to melee your target why would you need to leap? If you got into range to melee your target and CRIPPLE them as well why do you need another leap?

I think the Ranger’s 1 skill for the one-handed sword needs to be changed to something like:
Pounce (430 range leap (or farther :O), without the pet might. gives a much needed gap closer)
→ Kick (still cripples target, but normal melee range instead of a leap)
→ Slash (a normal melee ranged attack that grants your pet might)

Prevents stupid leaping and gives melee rangers a much needed gap closer

+1 to Onoz. Having the first skill as the only leap in the chain would help immensely.

Onoz did have a nice suggestion. Even if Pounce had less than a 430 range, that combo is still a preferable alternative to what we have now.

Also just because a weapon immobilizes you for 1 second and makes you unable to dodge or use the two dodges on the weapon immediately doesn’t make it a ‘High skill ceiling’ weapon. It functionally is wrong when most other weapons do it.

Having Pounce as the first attack means you can repeat it indefinitely without a target — or with a target, if you miss — thereby traversing a map extremely quickly. Certainly it’s not an insoluble problem, but one should at least consider what a solution would entail. Do we forbid the player from initiating their attack without an in-range target?

I Was about to suggest Onoz’s Idea when I read it. Its really good. And to Aseyhe the answer is yes. This is already a problem wit warriors and guardians and pretty much every build with a leap. But I could see hoe it could be troublesome with it being on the rangers auto-attack chain.

While i think that Khunvyel gives some good arguements for the sword (TLDR, it’s a more difficult weapon to master for the ranger). I still think that a small swap of skills could do a lot for the ranger sword:

1. Slash
> Kick
>> Serpent Strike
2. unchanged
3. Pounce.
* Serpent Strike & Pounce balanced for their new locations

Not only does it give a much needed gap closer on the sword. It also makes the Nr1. sequence feel like the ranger sword as a whole ‘felt’ when it still had the KnockBack on kick. Which was a realy fluid mobile fighting style. This feel is completely gone, with the knockback being gone, as the nr1 skill sequence basically roots the player into place.

Then again, having a constant ‘dodge’ on the nr1. sequence may well make the sword somewhat OP again. Not sure in how far serpent strike also counts as an ‘invulnerable’ during the sequence (after realizing my biggest issue with the sword, which is basically what this thread is about, i stopped using it), but if it doesn’t then the move would only regulary evade directional damage, not sure how OP that is…

Another thing i am still pondering about in regards to this ‘switch’-fix is whether it will still lock people in the nr1-sequence, albeit now being less of a problem it would still be quite annoying if one can’t use other skills while in this sequence…

These two issues are hard to judge theoretically though, so I am merely hoping that Anet will take all suggestions under considderation and test them in capable hands, to see which works best.

The challenge of sword is it is designed as a low skill weapon. It’s design is about keeping you on a target automatically in autoleap pilot and giving you auto evades that don’t involve using dodge.

Now we all know being glued to a target is bad so we develop work arounds. Turn off auto attack. OK this lets you control swing and gives you control while maintaining the easy leap to target functionality of the 1 chain. Largest downside is when you use a haste your finger better be real fast.

Anyone saying it’s a high skill cap weapon is off target it’s not. It’s a I don’t know how to stay on a melee target with a melee weapon skill that hinders those who want more control that you can work around to get proper functionality.

Arrys, but having to put it off of auto attack in some way makes it a higher skill weapon. If only for having to think about pressing 1 all the time, and when to stop… more user input is more ‘skill’, as having it on auto means you won’t have to think about it.

I’ve been using sword/dagger or sword/torch since about 35 when in solo or basic overworld gameplay. I always carry a full complement of weapons with me and tailor what I do to what is needed, but I always find myself gravitating back to this combo.

Primary skill chain

• I am ok with how this is implemented, although I kind of want to see another condition in the chain. I’d say a daze or evade, but it is likely to be deemed too powerful. The cripple seems odd to me—especially in solo play.
• The main issue I’m seeing is the “stickiness gets you killed” issue. This can certainly be the case—especially when autoattack is turned on for that chain. It is a very hard chain to break and that is probably the intention.
• If you would like to leave autoattack on and break out of this chain, I find that having “Stop attacking on target change” turned on and de-targetting your opponent, then dodging out works well. Not ideal, but I have not died due to “target stickiness” when using that.
• One of the points brought up that requires a little extra skill is the “bouncing like mad between enemies” technique. This is actually a really fun and brilliant use of the sword/offhand combo. The only time I see it falter is when enemies are too far apart for the leaps. It is augmented with autoattack off and making deliberate choices on your targets and when to use your chained skills.

Hornet Sting

• This does feel delayed, especially when following the skill chain—but then all skills feel delayed when trying to break that autoattack chain. Evasion being applied at the time of the stab might help this.
• I also never understood the cripple on return. The cripple should be on the leap away! This is the 2nd skill that cripples directly in melee, when I have no intention of kiting.
• I sometimes feel like the grace period for Monarch Leap is too short. If I’m not immediately leaping back on a target, I lose my window of opportunity. I’d like to see it remain open for a while longer, even while using other skills—it beats just wasting the move as it reverts to cooldown instead.

Serpent’s Strike

• I like this skill quite a bit but it is wildly inconsistent in how it decides to animate. Will I go around? Will I fly off to the side? Will I go straight forward and right past? Will the poison-strike actually hit anything, even if the roll sticks to the target ?? Nobody knows!
• I really want to see the poisoning-strike hit more often. I swear I will roll around a monster like a small spider, and the roll will uncontrollably take me around behind, but just too far away for the slash to hit! Perhaps it needs to stick to the target better, perhaps the strike should be a larger radius conical.
• I think this move could be implemented as a gap-closer as well. If in melee, roll around, strike. If out of melee, roll straight in to the target, strike.

Overall, I think only a little adjustment is needed to give more consistent results with the sword without having to go through the guesswork or the workarounds to the stickiness. It is both a highly mobile, and highly immobile weapon depending on how you use it.