Guild Wars 2

It’s been a while since I’ve been to this forum section, but I did a quick rundown on page 1 of relevant threads before seeking knowledge.

I’ve been asked to be a healing/support druid in our guild raid. Having no prior experience with ranger PvE I have a few questions and thoughts I would be grateful to get feedback on, while I understand much is yet to be tested.

First of, having watched the first boss in beta, Vale Guardian enrage timer and what Anet has previously stated in raid blog posts, my take is that raids are hopefully not so much about classes/meta, but more about having the right builds for x situation/boss fights, mastering the encounters with knowledge and speed. For example berserker can still be a thing since its best for power, viper for condi, while you could wear some slots that increases Vitality or Toughness, with skills/traits that supplement your allies. Defeating the Vale Guardian gives a nice starting indicator that the raid have “the” DPS and shouldn’t necessarily be too worried from hereon (I believe in a summary vid somewhere it was mentioned that each player needs at least an average of 4.5k DPS to dodge his enrage timer, which if true isnt super high..).

This brings me to the next part, as a druid I will most likely be the main source of healing, what options are there with Healing power that supplement damage/survivability? I need to do damage inbetween, either condi or power. Being in gear with healing power and condi would mean I’d have to swap in combat from staff to axe/torch during phases when one could do damage. I could(?) do less damage should I go with Power (as optimal Power builds require Power Precision Ferosity as opposed to Condition and Expertise), but then I could safely sit more in Staff as damage is higher with it.

What stats on main armor, weapons, trinkets, amulet, rings, back, would you go for and why? I was thinking maybe Zealot (Power Precision Healing Power) could be a thing with some vitality pieces, but I’m not sure how expensive the insignias are if I wanted to convert my berserker ascended in Mystic Forge. What should the Healing Power threshold be to make an effect on output?
What of heal/utility/elite skills, and traitlines (Nature Magic, Skirmishing, Duid)?
Having never really had an experience with Duid F5, what have your fav rotations been in a PvE setting where you would have to keep someone up?

Wait a day, than we know more.

Right now, everything is more or less speculation. With the raids going live tomorrow, we will actually have some information on how much and what kind of healing is needed.

Patience I say.

This thread is just a few posts down. No one knows for sure, but this build is my best guess for what will be needed.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Build-Druid-Dedicated-Support/first#post5760481

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Wait a day, than we know more.

Right now, everything is more or less speculation. With the raids going live tomorrow, we will actually have some information on how much and what kind of healing is needed.

Patience I say.

But I’m raiding tomorrow and I need some healing gear :P I’m prepared to potentially having to re-Mystic Forge ascended gear.

Fluffball.8307:

This thread is just a few posts down. No one knows for sure, but this build is my best guess for what will be needed.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Build-Druid-Dedicated-Support/first#post5760481

Yes thank you, I’ll have a closer look once work is over

Fluffball.8307:

…
… No one knows for sure, but this build is my best guess for what will be needed.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Build-Druid-Dedicated-Support/first#post5760481

This

Also been doing a lot of thinking on the subject.
I wouldn’t invest in zealot gear yet has it hasn’t been proven to be effective and its very expensive. Also don’t invest in any ascended gear yet, for none DPS builds the difference in stats is barely noticeable.

The ascalon pvp track reward is now up, you can farm 6 magi armor pieces with the monk rune already attached, and also magi weapons.
I decided to go with something like this for my first run , based on scrapped gear I have or can put my hands down easily and for free.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQNBmOD7keVomVsVFwZFgoFsYIYwb1waZ1Z1F76BMBg1VD4knEuJA-TBzDABKcEAY4CAYkSsbUv5p9HuS5xCKBB4gAYjKCF/AAGwE3J6GEFgfB-e

I don’t think you should care about offensive stats as at least 50% of your time you want to be in CA form to get the bonus from grace of the land. If anything, I would go with Apothecary/magi if it wasn’t so expensive, to get more out of the sun spirit. The might stacking (axe/sigil of strength) is for your pet, your other dps source.
I also considered taking playing with the heal(trying traited HS) switching sun and nature spirits for glyph of alignment and glyph of unity. Remember that glyphs proc by proxy grace of the land, which is a nice dps bonus while not in CA form. You have the flexibility.

LughLongArm.5460:

Remember that glyphs proc by proxy grace of the land, which is a nice dps bonus while not in CA form.

Could u elaborate on this? Im not familiar with glyphs atm, do they have passive effects or only actives, and the actives are based on non CA or CA right?

nacario.9417:

LughLongArm.5460:

Remember that glyphs proc by proxy grace of the land, which is a nice dps bonus while not in CA form.

Could u elaborate on this? Im not familiar with glyphs atm, do they have passive effects or only actives, and the actives are based on non CA or CA right?

Grace of the land will proc from all your skills while in CA and from all your glyphs when activated, no matter if in normal form or CA.

Maybe I am too optimistic, but I expect a lot of balance changes to the druid with the release of raids. So I think we will have to wait for the patch to get enough information.

nacario.9417:

LughLongArm.5460:

Remember that glyphs proc by proxy grace of the land, which is a nice dps bonus while not in CA form.

Could u elaborate on this? Im not familiar with glyphs atm, do they have passive effects or only actives, and the actives are based on non CA or CA right?

To be specific : The trait “Verdant Etching” is making your glyphs to proc “seed of life” which considered a CA skill and therefor activates the “grace of the land” trait even while not in CA form.

I fully agree with Kaiyanwan.8521 and that’s why i wouldn’t commit to any expensive gear set yet. Magi armor is the most easy to get / accessible, exotic healing gear stat. Mix with some cleric which is kinda cheap for some armor(not to much, you don’t want the agrro), and you are good to go.

My personal go-to stats are Cleric, tbh.

If I’m supposed to be that dedicated healer camping most of the time in my CAF, I don’t want to be forced to dodge roll every single attack. If I need to heal that bloody guy instantly, I can’t afford to bloody walk out of AoE.
That bonus toughness ends up giving me just the time to survive that extra attack so I can heal the guy up without worrying too much about going down myself.

If I’m forced to avoid attacks less and heal myself up less – I’m allowed to heal others more – which allows them to keep attacking for longer – increasing the overall DPS in the long run.

I think the biggest question for druid healing gear is “How much healing power do you need?”

If it’s worth investing into full healing power gear, then I think Zealot’s is the clear winner. Druids don’t have enough boon focus to make use of Minstrels and both Minstrels and Clerics are potentially problematic due to the high amount of toughness.

Toughness can be problematic since it potentially draws aggro from the boss.

Now, you’ll have to take at least some clerics for any power build since there is no other option for trinkets. The exceptions are Bane’s Tooth and Faolain’s Blossom, which are accessories with Healing, Precision, Vitality, but you’ll need to have completed the collection to get all skins from HotW and TA to get those, so I doubt many people will have access to those.

There’s the option of going condi for Apothecary, but so far that seems to fall behind power in any calculations I’ve seen.

Now, it’s very possible that there will be some hybrid build that really excels. My understanding is that Healing Power scales pretty badly after you have 1k, so maybe you just stack berserker stats.

Dahkeus.8243:

I think the biggest question for druid healing gear is “How much healing power do you need?”

If it’s worth investing into full healing power gear, then I think Zealot’s is the clear winner. Druids don’t have enough boon focus to make use of Minstrels and both Minstrels and Clerics are potentially problematic due to the high amount of toughness.

Toughness can be problematic since it potentially draws aggro from the boss.

Now, you’ll have to take at least some clerics for any power build since there is no other option for trinkets. The exceptions are Bane’s Tooth and Faolain’s Blossom, which are accessories with Healing, Precision, Vitality, but you’ll need to have completed the collection to get all skins from HotW and TA to get those, so I doubt many people will have access to those.

There’s the option of going condi for Apothecary, but so far that seems to fall behind power in any calculations I’ve seen.

Now, it’s very possible that there will be some hybrid build that really excels. My understanding is that Healing Power scales pretty badly after you have 1k, so maybe you just stack berserker stats.

For druid builds zealot are meha, as you spend like ~50% of the time in CA and heal to get grace of the land bonus. ~30%-40% with staff to build AF quicky and like 10%-20% with your other wapon set.
SO 50% is with heal only skills , 30%-40% with the staff with loswest power coffient in the game(0.3) and 10%-20% with axe or sowrd(which is more about the use horn 5 twice and swap back to staff) So where does exacly your zealot advantage is coming from?
Truth be told, by healing smartly we can do more group dps by healing compared to most dps builds we have ATM. So why invest so much in expensive zealot when you can have free magi to mix with your cleric.

Apothecary also good cus it scales with sun spirit which is passive damage to all group.

I have to agree with Lugh, here.

If you really want to have a DPS advantage as a healer – you should invest into Apothecary since you only need to cast abilities for the whole advantage of DPS. Also, Sun Spirit is just a clear winner when with that.
Zealot is a waste since you’d like to keep boosting all 9 people with +15% that increase raid DPS by a considerable about (more than your personal DPS). You do not deal Auto-Attack damage as a dedicated healer. 50% of your Raid game will be CAF. Not Sword.

Zealot advantage comes from the lack of conditions on staff and reliance on axe/torch for any decent condi damage. Stacking apothecary also means stacking toughness, which touches on the aggro issue.

As for Sun Spirit, this does not use your condi damage for the burning applied by others. Your condi stats will only affect the burning you apply from when the effect is applied to you.

Also saying that “50% of your Raid will be CAF” is a really strong assumption for content not yet encountered and also means next to nothing for power vs condi since you’re not dealing damage in CAF.

Another thing with condi is that to deal any decent condi damage, you’ll be restricted to melee range with axe/torch when you swap off staff. While this may be fine if you only need to damage in bursts, it will restrict your positioning as a healer. This probably doesn’t sound like much to people considering builds from a pure numbers standpoint, but from a logistical perspective where you’ll be dealing with raid boss mechanics and 10 players who will not always be in melee, this can make a big difference in practice.

Power gives a strong melee option (1h sword) for when appropriate as well as allowing a good ranged weapon (longbow).

Shortbow’s not even worth considering, even for a condi build until some massive changes are made to that weapon.

I think for Vale guardian one can be quite succesful by taking note of power, since u will be doing alot of autos from staff that scales from power + not everyone needs heals all the time, especially when they learn how to avoid damage (not like in WoW where one is meant to spam heal as u cannot avoid there at much higher extent). At the same time I do see the 15% raid dmg bonus being a big factor though. There has to be a middle ground somewhere.

Guess Ill go for that sweetspot 1k healing power (possibly magi exotic main arnor) with monk runes, and then ill go for power and vit somehow in offgear. What would u guys suggest for weapon stats?

Edit: I tried to go for more healing power gear but all from the vendors is power toughness healing, which ups my toughness a lot (something I dont want). Is there a way to get other stats with healing other than toughness or condi? Are there vendors in orr maybe that sells exos?

Dahkeus.8243:

Zealot advantage comes from the lack of conditions on staff and reliance on axe/torch for any decent condi damage. Stacking apothecary also means stacking toughness, which touches on the aggro issue.

As for Sun Spirit, this does not use your condi damage for the burning applied by others. Your condi stats will only affect the burning you apply from when the effect is applied to you.

Also saying that “50% of your Raid will be CAF” is a really strong assumption for content not yet encountered and also means next to nothing for power vs condi since you’re not dealing damage in CAF.

Another thing with condi is that to deal any decent condi damage, you’ll be restricted to melee range with axe/torch when you swap off staff. While this may be fine if you only need to damage in bursts, it will restrict your positioning as a healer. This probably doesn’t sound like much to people considering builds from a pure numbers standpoint, but from a logistical perspective where you’ll be dealing with raid boss mechanics and 10 players who will not always be in melee, this can make a big difference in practice.

Power gives a strong melee option (1h sword) for when appropriate as well as allowing a good ranged weapon (longbow).

Shortbow’s not even worth considering, even for a condi build until some massive changes are made to that weapon.

You are right about sun spirit, my bad.
You are laso right about the strong assumptions. The lack of information realy dictates at we;ll go with what cheap ATM. If you have a zealot set on your hand, good for. If you dont, go with my original proposal, that we should go magi which the easyest healing gear to acquire and mix with cleric for some armor, also a cheap set to acquire.

nacario.9417:

I think for Vale guardian one can be quite succesful by taking note of power, since u will be doing alot of autos from staff that scales from power + not everyone needs heals all the time, especially when they learn how to avoid damage (not like in WoW where one is meant to spam heal as u cannot avoid there at much higher extent). At the same time I do see the 15% raid dmg bonus being a big factor though. There has to be a middle ground somewhere.

Guess Ill go for that sweetspot 1k healing power (possibly magi exotic main arnor) with monk runes, and then ill go for power and vit somehow in offgear. What would u guys suggest for weapon stats?

Edit: I tried to go for more healing power gear but all from the vendors is power toughness healing, which ups my toughness a lot (something I dont want). Is there a way to get other stats with healing other than toughness or condi? Are there vendors in orr maybe that sells exos?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Equipment_acquisition_by_stats

You can get magi from everywhere. Also, ascalon pvp reward track is on ATM. Its magi gear with monk rune already attached and tokents to get more ascalot gear/runes so…..

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQNBmOD7kSFomVsVFwZFgoFsYIYwb1xaZ1Z1F76BMBg1VD4khdiJA-TxRBABOqEEPdDZt/QYK/A4KAowDBgS1fIFgf7tA-e

LughLongArm.5460:

nacario.9417:

I think for Vale guardian one can be quite succesful by taking note of power, since u will be doing alot of autos from staff that scales from power + not everyone needs heals all the time, especially when they learn how to avoid damage (not like in WoW where one is meant to spam heal as u cannot avoid there at much higher extent). At the same time I do see the 15% raid dmg bonus being a big factor though. There has to be a middle ground somewhere.

Guess Ill go for that sweetspot 1k healing power (possibly magi exotic main arnor) with monk runes, and then ill go for power and vit somehow in offgear. What would u guys suggest for weapon stats?

Edit: I tried to go for more healing power gear but all from the vendors is power toughness healing, which ups my toughness a lot (something I dont want). Is there a way to get other stats with healing other than toughness or condi? Are there vendors in orr maybe that sells exos?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Equipment_acquisition_by_stats

You can get magi from everywhere. Also, ascalon pvp reward track is on ATM. Its magi gear with monk rune already attached and tokents to get more ascalot gear/runes so…..

I already have full magi with monks, but thanks. Now im just left on what stats to pick on for staff since I have 1k healing power with berserker staff/lb (or if healing is noticable past 1k mark then i may as well go either magi or cleric on staff, toughness atm is 1400)

Prophet.1584:

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQNBmOD7kSFomVsVFwZFgoFsYIYwb1xaZ1Z1F76BMBg1VD4khdiJA-TxRBABOqEEPdDZt/QYK/A4KAowDBgS1fIFgf7tA-e

Eh, there’s no reason to go axe on a power build. Either you go longbow so that you can stay ranged or you go sword to go melee.

Axe’s damage is pretty weak and the might on attack is easily wasted in an organized group.

Additionally, longbow will give burst potential, which is particularly advantageous for something like a druid that will often be using staff to generate CAF.

Sure, you lose the blast and boons of warhorn, but other professions can keep up the boons more easily (revenant/PS war, for instance) and a blast isn’t important enough to outweigh other disadvantages of axe/warhorn.

Hold on a second guyz.
…
When did they nerf Sun Spirit to scale from user’s condition damage instead of caster’s (Ranger). This hasn’t been this way when I started playing the game.

When did I miss the patch notes?

I’m almost certain it’s always been that way?

Tragic Positive.9356:

Hold on a second guyz.
…
When did they nerf Sun Spirit to scale from user’s condition damage instead of caster’s (Ranger). This hasn’t been this way when I started playing the game.

When did I miss the patch notes?

Also remembered it was base on ranger condi damage for the everyone. But Havn’t used sun spirit for ages.

Oh so … My head hasn’t gone blond yet, right? Sun Spirit still goes off Ranger’s condi, right? Don’t scare me like that!

It’s fine, you’ll need condi DPS anyways for the first boss. Just put the Druid in the same group as your condi DPS so they’ll have priority for Sun Spirit.

Also, for those complaining about toughness generating aggro: have any of you actually tried playing with Cleric’s gear: you’ll never actually get aggro cause damage done is also a very important factor in determining who actually gets aggro. I feel like a lot of ppl just read somewhere that toughness makes you get aggro and assumed it meant you’ll be an aggro magnet just because of your gear when that is definitely not true. The wiki even states that damage is the most important factor and there’s also this reddit thread that explains some of this as well.

tl;dr: toughness is only one factor in determining aggro and it varies from boss to boss. You won’t actually get aggro in clerics gear cause you’re not doing high damage.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Oh so … My head hasn’t gone blond yet, right? Sun Spirit still goes off Ranger’s condi, right? Don’t scare me like that!

ATM it does only for your attacks, pet and party members get the burn proc based on their condi damage.

I can’t remember a time when SS didn’t trigger based on party members’ condi stat. I guess if everyone remembers it, it must have been like that a long time ago, but in recent memory it’s been based on individual stats. All of GW2 works like that, water fields, regen, guardian burns, frostbows, etc. All based on the “user”.

TurtleDragon.3108:

It’s fine, you’ll need condi DPS anyways for the first boss. Just put the Druid in the same group as your condi DPS so they’ll have priority for Sun Spirit.

Also, for those complaining about toughness generating aggro: have any of you actually tried playing with Cleric’s gear: you’ll never actually get aggro cause damage done is also a very important factor in determining who actually gets aggro. I feel like a lot of ppl just read somewhere that toughness makes you get aggro and assumed it meant you’ll be an aggro magnet just because of your gear when that is definitely not true. The wiki even states that damage is the most important factor and there’s also this reddit thread that explains some of this as well.

tl;dr: toughness is only one factor in determining aggro and it varies from boss to boss. You won’t actually get aggro in clerics gear cause you’re not doing high damage.

Feel free to read back here. No one said it was the factor, but it is a factor. What you posted isn’t news to anyone here.

If you’re running pure ranged weapons and someone else in your group has toughness, then yea, it’s pretty much a non-issue. However, if you’re dancing in melee range with a zerk-heavy group, that may not be the same situation.

Dahkeus.8243:

However, if you’re dancing in melee range with a zerk-heavy group, that may not be the same situation.

I do that to give my allies Glyph + Grace of the land and still don’t grab aggro.

TurtleDragon.3108:

Dahkeus.8243:

However, if you’re dancing in melee range with a zerk-heavy group, that may not be the same situation.

I do that to give my allies Glyph + Grace of the land and still don’t grab aggro.

Good for you. Doesn’t mean that’s always the case in every group, nor does that mean it will be the same with raids.

It’s possible that a full cleric druid camping sword won’t put out ever pull aggro in a raid, but honestly, we don’t really know if that will be the case or not yet.

I would say that if you’ve decided to go with more defense stats, you’ll likely do more damage as condi with apothecary than as power with full cleric’s. Zealot’s is what puts power ahead.

Dahkeus.8243:

Prophet.1584:

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQNBmOD7kSFomVsVFwZFgoFsYIYwb1xaZ1Z1F76BMBg1VD4khdiJA-TxRBABOqEEPdDZt/QYK/A4KAowDBgS1fIFgf7tA-e

Eh, there’s no reason to go axe on a power build. Either you go longbow so that you can stay ranged or you go sword to go melee.

Axe’s damage is pretty weak and the might on attack is easily wasted in an organized group.

Additionally, longbow will give burst potential, which is particularly advantageous for something like a druid that will often be using staff to generate CAF.

Sure, you lose the blast and boons of warhorn, but other professions can keep up the boons more easily (revenant/PS war, for instance) and a blast isn’t important enough to outweigh other disadvantages of axe/warhorn.

I’ll most likely use Sword once raids starts so I can keep the blast on warhorn along with the blast on staff 3. As much as I love LB i’d rather not have 2 “ranged” weapons. My offhand set tends to swap based on the content anyway.

TurtleDragon.3108:

Dahkeus.8243:

However, if you’re dancing in melee range with a zerk-heavy group, that may not be the same situation.

I do that to give my allies Glyph + Grace of the land and still don’t grab aggro.

One of the raid bosses is set up with different aggro mechanics, he particularly keys off the player with the highest toughness. Unless someone else in the group is running toughness gear you may pull aggro. I think this is what they are referring to when they mention toughness pulling aggro.

It should be a non issue since someone else in the group should be running toughness gear as well to move and position the boss (tank). People have run clerics gear on their druids and killed Vale Guardian without aggro being an issue.

I see in the build listed above it has zealot trinkets rings etc, but this cannot be obtained yet?

You have to use exotic trinkets if you want zealot stats in those slots.

nacario.9417:

I see in the build listed above it has zealot trinkets rings etc, but this cannot be obtained yet?

Correct. The closest you can come is clerics rings, back, and amulet with magi accessories and those accessories require completing the collection achievement for TA and HotW.

Fluffball.8307:

I can’t remember a time when SS didn’t trigger based on party members’ condi stat. I guess if everyone remembers it, it must have been like that a long time ago, but in recent memory it’s been based on individual stats. All of GW2 works like that, water fields, regen, guardian burns, frostbows, etc. All based on the “user”.

No sure about the others but regen ticks are calculated by the source healing power.

LughLongArm.5460:

Fluffball.8307:

I can’t remember a time when SS didn’t trigger based on party members’ condi stat. I guess if everyone remembers it, it must have been like that a long time ago, but in recent memory it’s been based on individual stats. All of GW2 works like that, water fields, regen, guardian burns, frostbows, etc. All based on the “user”.

No sure about the others but regen ticks are calculated by the source healing power.

Ah you are right. It’s the fernhound that doesn’t work like that. This isn’t the first time nor the last time I’ll mess that up.

I’m 100% sure about the waterfield, frostbow, and guardian burns. Unless something has changed..

I’ve been experimenting with a good healing/damage balance, and so far I’ve got:

Crusader stat armor ( Power, Toughness, Ferocity, Healing) in all armor slots
Rune of the Pack
Celestial backpack
Celestial Amulet
Cleric rings

My accessories are Healing, Precision, Vitality earrings from TA and HotW dungeon reward tracks.

Fluffball.8307:

LughLongArm.5460:

Fluffball.8307:

I can’t remember a time when SS didn’t trigger based on party members’ condi stat. I guess if everyone remembers it, it must have been like that a long time ago, but in recent memory it’s been based on individual stats. All of GW2 works like that, water fields, regen, guardian burns, frostbows, etc. All based on the “user”.

No sure about the others but regen ticks are calculated by the source healing power.

Ah you are right. It’s the fernhound that doesn’t work like that. This isn’t the first time nor the last time I’ll mess that up.

I’m 100% sure about the waterfield, frostbow, and guardian burns. Unless something has changed..

Actually didnt know that about fren, thanx for tip.

Just going to run the dungeon meta build but run vipers armor with berserker or balth runes, carrion weapons (dont have vipers weapons yet) and trade I think beastmastery for druid. If they fix AF so that quickdraw procs, double water field should be plenty.

I got exotics 6 magi main armor with (asc) zealot weapons and (exo) offset. I was going lb for offwep but maybe sword warhorn could build faster AF in those fights were u can do some dmg/if it happens, like when vale guardian splits up into several, inbetween CA cd (as we also wanna keep that 15% raid dmg up). Will be interesting to see how stronk the regen ticks r from warhorn and elite spirit. Outside of that ill just sit in staff. Pretty stronk ontop 50% healing output from monk runes, transference sigil (but wow so exp..), food, and traitline. Not quite sure what to use from utility tho.. today will be an exciting day. I just hope healing wont feel too off/clunky as ill probl have to move around alot

I will try the Raid with my Apothecary Trinkets and Shaman everything else. Water/Stone/Nature Spirit for the Defensive/Healing Part and Vipers Nest + Flame Trap for the Condi Utilities.

Fluffball.8307:

LughLongArm.5460:

Fluffball.8307:

I can’t remember a time when SS didn’t trigger based on party members’ condi stat. I guess if everyone remembers it, it must have been like that a long time ago, but in recent memory it’s been based on individual stats. All of GW2 works like that, water fields, regen, guardian burns, frostbows, etc. All based on the “user”.

No sure about the others but regen ticks are calculated by the source healing power.

Ah you are right. It’s the fernhound that doesn’t work like that. This isn’t the first time nor the last time I’ll mess that up.

I’m 100% sure about the waterfield, frostbow, and guardian burns. Unless something has changed..

One thing that has changed actually is Thief Venoms. ANet has been trying desperately to make these viable and one of the changes they made was to make venoms work off of Thief condi stats.