Apothecary gear might now be affordable!

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Posted by: Zenith.7301

Zenith.7301

Maybe i should go QQ that i cant kill BM Regen rangers when i play Bunker ele on the Ele forum? Nah i think ill just change my build and my tactics if i want to kill a class instead of going to go QQ on the forums.

Do what you will, tough guy. I can’t be bothered with e-thugs.

Bunch of people have suggested things to change and/or try and you keep saying that it doesnt work. Apperently your way is the best way but it doesnt cut it so i dont know why you keep discussing it with us. Do you want us to agree with the problems you are having when have found ways to work around them?

I don’t keep saying it doesn’t work. I am not alone in voicing concerns about pet ai and excessive cleansing in game, but you keep trying to push it as if I do.

My build works. I pressure the ele as best as I can, but what will get the kill on any bunker as a ranger build is ultimately the pet, and when the pet is not functioning properly because it autoroots while attacking changing from a condi to power spec won’t change anything.

I’ve had little problems discussing with other people besides you and Fura, who both talk to people in forums like you wouldn’t in real life because such behavior would be despicable in a public setting.

My shortbow pressures conditions just fine. I don’t need the axe and I don’t need its offhand. It works for me and other rangers in spvp. What I need is for my pet to hit a moving target.

It’s not important for you, but it is important to me that they split part of my damage into an npc where if that damage were given to me and the pet did not exist I’d have little issues. But they’ve decided the pet will be our main mechanic, and at the very least on a basic level — not susceptibility to aoe, not random usage of abilities like knockdowns/roots, even more minor stuff — I expect them to at least keep up with opponents instead of watching it stare as it chases someone but very rarely catches up with them.

tPvP is different because of the food factor. In tPvP, you should be stalemating d/d eles. They are a broken build.

This thread is about apothecary gear and how it affects our gameplay though. One build from one class that it has issues with shouldn’t be cause to derail the thread into yet another “to kill a d/d ele” discussion :/

Where you guys were going was good before this escalated into argument for whatever reason it did. Swiftness is a huge deal in condition builds since enemies that can kite you are the ones who are most dangerous.

The maddening thing isn’t that you stalemate. It’s that a dd ele in tpvp can stalemate a BM bunker, yet at the same time do great in group fights with tons of team utility, still posses good player controlled burst, and keep the title of the best bunker after the guardian for point holding.

As a BM bunker ranger, you are really only good at one thing, and that is 1v1 and maybe holding 2 people on a point for a bit until a CC heavy class comes along and kicks you off point.

We are a very specialized spec, yet even at the best thing we do we can’t kill some specs that are great at what we do and then even more things BECAUSE the pet ai is deficient. If they improved pet rooting and uptime on moving people, my complaints in a pvp setting would vanish.

(edited by Zenith.7301)

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Posted by: Puandro.3245

Puandro.3245

tPvP is different because of the food factor. In tPvP, you should be stalemating d/d eles. They are a broken build.

This thread is about apothecary gear and how it affects our gameplay though. One build from one class that it has issues with shouldn’t be cause to derail the thread into yet another “to kill a d/d ele” discussion :/

Where you guys were going was good before this escalated into argument for whatever reason it did. Swiftness is a huge deal in condition builds since enemies that can kite you are the ones who are most dangerous.

Rangers are better in tournies then in WvW. You are forced to fight on a point making trap spec or Shaman rangers better. WvW with runes not being nerfed (Boon duration) and food makes D/D better. Also they have unerfed heals unlike in tPvP.

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Posted by: Furajir.3815

Furajir.3815

Sounds like you should roll an Ele.

However, I do agree that agility training is utter garbage and the pets should just move 30% faster as part of their mechanic.

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Posted by: Faux Sheaux.6179

Faux Sheaux.6179

The maddening thing isn’t that you stalemate. It’s that a dd ele in tpvp can stalemate a BM bunker, yet at the same time do great in group fights with tons of team utility, still posses good player controlled burst, and keep the title of the best bunker after the guardian for point holding.

As a BM bunker ranger, you are really only good at one thing, and that is 1v1 and maybe holding 2 people on a point for a bit until a CC heavy class comes along and kicks you off point.

We are a very specialized spec, yet even at the best thing we do we can’t kill some specs that are great at what we do and then even more things BECAUSE the pet ai is deficient. If they improved pet rooting and uptime on moving people, my complaints in a pvp setting would vanish.

I agree completely. It’s a stupidly overpowered class. I’m just saying discussion on it would be more appropriate on another thread than one called “apothecary gear might now be affordable!!11!!1!11eleven!1”. That’s all really.

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Posted by: Puandro.3245

Puandro.3245

You’re right that i wouldn’t speak like this in public because after a few minutes i would see that you dont want suggestions to try new things you just want approval of the issues you are having so in that case i would just walk away and do something better with my free time.

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Posted by: Chopps.5047

Chopps.5047

Sounds like you should roll an Ele.

However, I do agree that agility training is utter garbage and the pets should just move 30% faster as part of their mechanic.

It’s possible that it started like this but in testing anet felt it was OP. I mean, rangers had a slot skill—camoflauge—in beta but eventually that stealth on demand was nerfed to Hide in Plain Sight. It’s possible agility training had a similar history.

Maybe it works in a weird way? For example, right now, with my regen build, I could get empathic bond if agility training was free. It definately makes me make some hard decisions which is good, I think.

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Posted by: Furajir.3815

Furajir.3815

I just feel as if it should be a given.

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Posted by: Puandro.3245

Puandro.3245

I feel that pets should move when they attack but if the pet is able to do that it would lead to nerfs. Atm Rangers have the highest damage of all the classes that can Bunker. Its one of the aspects of having a pet that doesnt scale with your stats.

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Posted by: Zenith.7301

Zenith.7301

Sounds like you should roll an Ele.

However, I do agree that agility training is utter garbage and the pets should just move 30% faster as part of their mechanic.

Already have one, got bored of that OP spec. Next row of assumptions?

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Posted by: Chokolata.1870

Chokolata.1870

yes, but ranger has no support or group utility when he bunkers, unlike elementalists or guardians . It is a trade off , more damage for less utility

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Posted by: Chopps.5047

Chopps.5047

yes, but ranger has no support or group utility when he bunkers, unlike elementalists or guardians . It is a trade off , more damage for less utility

Would you mind elaborating on the differences for a guy with level 2 guardian and level 20 ele?

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Posted by: Zenith.7301

Zenith.7301

Guardian has aoe group stability, prot, regen, condition clear, sanctuary, aegis, an instant chunk of group heal with virtue, symbols granting the group fields for retaliation. Empower gives the group healing and easy stacks of might on top of healing and ground control, without needing to occupy a utility slot. They also do deceptive damage because when specced their burning and retal will eat you up pretty quickly. They have group blinds.

They are bar none the best team fight class in game due to having an abundance of boon provision for their team, and a bunch of boons to top it off.

Hell, their stun breaker is that same skill that gives THEM and the entire group stability and retaliation at the same time. Stability is a stupidly OP boon and because there are only 2 classes with the ability to strip boons (and only the mesmer can strip them consistently on a group while necro is on a 45 sec cd or a single target strip from Corrupt Boon) a guardian is fairly able to give his group all kinds of boosts and ground control. Moreover, necro is a weak tourney class in the meta as it’s too fragile and has crap mobility, so the only class you actually see often that can strip boons is the mesmer.

Eles on the other hand may not provide as much defensive boons to a group as a guardian, but they do better healing for a group, provide fire fields and auras to boost the team with fury and swiftness, offer more condition clears; they also do considerably more damage than guardians do and a lot of it is cleave, pbaoe damage with a host of CC and mobility that the guardian doesn’t have.

Both classes are extremely more useful in a team fight than the BM bunker will ever be. The BM bunker is strictly a roamer class specced for 1v1 and stalling. Its spike ability outside raven f2 is horrible, and even with the raven you’re stuck by an ability delayed by bad UI over player delivered immediate burst. After raven burst you offer your team no meaningful pressure damage compared to a condi character like the engineer, don’t have the spike pressure of glass cannon specs, and most importantly the entirety of your damage is mostly single target versus cleaving by mesmers/engineers/eles.

If BM bunker ranger and rangers in general have little utility, they SHOULD be the best at what little they have, which may be roaming. Trapper rangers are the only thing close to a team fight spec, and it’s only for tpvp because people need to stand over a point unlike in wvw where groups are larger, mobile, and make good advantage of aoe condition clears and fields.

(edited by Zenith.7301)

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Posted by: Chopps.5047

Chopps.5047

I don’t agree with your assessment, Shiren, but I appreciate hearing your opinion. One reason I say that is how hard your regen hits is a function of amount of healing power and traits as opposed to profession:

The Regeneration boon grants healing over time determined by the following formula:
5 + (1.5625 * Level) + (0.125 * Healing Power) per second
At level 80 this is:
130 + (0.125 * Healing Power) per second

Contrasted with the quote that seems to imply ele’s are innately giving more healing with their boons “Eles on the other hand may not provide as much defensive boons to a group as a guardian, but they do better healing for a group, provide fire fields and auras to boost the team with fury and swiftness, offer more condition clears; they also do considerably more damage than guardians do and a lot of it is cleave, pbaoe damage with a host of CC and mobility that the guardian doesn’t have.”

Well, lets compare ele healing / condition removal abilities.

HEALING SPRING (30 s CD)
Create a spring that heals you, your pet, and your allies. It also cures conditions on allies.
Healing: 4,920 (1.0)?
6 Regeneration: 3 s (2340 health)
Radius: 240
Duration: 15 s
Combo Field: Water

SPIRIT OF NATURE (240 s CD)
Summon a spirit that heals allies. Command the spirit to revive and cure conditions on nearby allies.
Duration: 60 s
Healing: 480

Healing Rain (Staff, 45 s CD + time stuck in other attunements)
Call down a healing rain on the target area, granting regeneration to allies and curing conditions once every three seconds.
4 Regeneration: 4 s (2080 health)
Duration: 6 s
Radius: 360
Combo Field: Water
Range: 1,200

Geyser (Staff, 20 s CD + time spent stuck in other attunements)
Create a geyser to heal nearby allies.
Healing: 808 (0.25)?
Duration: 2 s
Radius: 120
Combo Field: Water
Range: 1,200

Regarding condition removal, signet of renewal (60 s CD remove all conditions from pet’s nearby allies and send to pet) and the brown bear’s 24s CD Shake it off (cures 1 condition from all nearby allies) seems pretty good. Also you avoid mentioning pets besides raven, which is actually more of a 1v1 pet and likely is not the most bursty pet.

Again, I’m not that well versed with ele but these are the kinds of comparisons I like to see. So now, when you look at the actual abilities, ranger seems quite competitive in terms of healing / condition removal. So now if you spec the ranger into that role it opens up different weapon choices for the ele on your team.

Just my thoughts, you might disagree and that’s cool with me.

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Posted by: Zenith.7301

Zenith.7301

Why are you using staff ele as a comparison? Nobody uses staff ele for tpvp.

You’ve got cleansing wave, evasive arcana cleansing wave (both direct heals and condition removal, not a regen application tied to a spot). You’ve got cone of cold. The ele too can apply regen to allies at will, so your healing spring isn’t special, and if you’re going to bring a 240 cd spirit they can bring their water elemental elite which also heals.

You only bring regen. They bring high protection, fury uptime without needing a weapon (it’s a trait), the auras gives allies stun when hit which stops someone from getting trained by melee, and frost aura reduces their damage taken by 10% plus chills opponents.

They bring 2 aoe knockdowns to prevent damage on their team, an immobilize, aoe chill and cripple all in one weaponset without needing to use utilities. They bring aoe weakness.

And quite frankly what the hell are you thinking bringing a bear to pvp? They do less damage than an engineer’s burning ticks. Bears are pretty terrible.

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Posted by: Puandro.3245

Puandro.3245

Zenith is correct an Ele brings so much more to a team fight. They do have more Cleaving (even if a ranger uses a Drake) but they have less ST DPS. Also Eles are more easily shut down by a Necro. Ele is good in team fights for dps and healing. I roam on my ele and back up our home point if they go for it and go to team fights. Ranger is really a much better 1v1 though as Rangers have the highest Bunker DPS due to the pet so they will be forced to send someone else to 2v1 you or they lose the point. Depending on what they have on their home point the Ele might or might not be able to 1v1 the class.

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Posted by: Zenith.7301

Zenith.7301

kitten engineers. They are a scourge.

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Posted by: Chopps.5047

Chopps.5047

Zenith, why troll? You know I play dungeons and wvw only. You can’t even get apothecary in spvp, I don’t know why you keep derailing this thread.

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Posted by: Puandro.3245

Puandro.3245

Zenith, why troll? You know I play dungeons and wvw only. You can’t even get apothecary in spvp, I don’t know why you keep derailing this thread.

Apothecary is called Shaman in sPvP.

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Posted by: Faux Sheaux.6179

Faux Sheaux.6179

Zenith, why troll? You know I play dungeons and wvw only. You can’t even get apothecary in spvp, I don’t know why you keep derailing this thread.

Apothecary is called Shaman in sPvP.

Eh… it’s close but not quite the same. Shaman in sPvP has the major traits switched. Shaman is toughness major while Apothecary is healing major. I’d use the toughness major if possible in WvW if they had it, but unfortunately it’s restricted to sPvP ;(

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Posted by: Xsorus.2507

Xsorus.2507

Quick note for everyone

Winter’s Bite doesn’t actually have to land to apply the Weakness.

It has to land to apply the Chill, the Weakness is a Buff given to your pet on its next hit, So you can completely miss Winter’s Bite and as long as your pet hits within I think the next 10 seconds it’ll apply Weakness to the target.

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Posted by: Puandro.3245

Puandro.3245

Zenith, why troll? You know I play dungeons and wvw only. You can’t even get apothecary in spvp, I don’t know why you keep derailing this thread.

Apothecary is called Shaman in sPvP.

Eh… it’s close but not quite the same. Shaman in sPvP has the major traits switched. Shaman is toughness major while Apothecary is healing major. I’d use the toughness major if possible in WvW if they had it, but unfortunately it’s restricted to sPvP ;(

Close enough to compare TBH.

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Posted by: Soja.5918

Soja.5918

Crafted an Apothecary’s Pearl Needler last night.

Feels good.

The Crystal Desert beckons us. Ascension awaits us.

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Posted by: Eliteseraph.4970

Eliteseraph.4970

I just want to point out, that as a relatively new and inexperienced ranger player, I find this thread to be of immense value. Even though you guys are bickering at times, the amount of useful info in the last 3 pages alone outclasses most everything that I’ve seen in the ranger forums combined.

Please continue!

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Posted by: Shiren.9532

Shiren.9532

I don’t agree with your assessment, Shiren, but I appreciate hearing your opinion.

I don’t think I’ve posted in this thread yet. I think you have me confused.

It’s great that Apothecary is now more affordable, I’m holding off on buying it until I see how the dungeon is implemented (Robert is on the team working on the new content so my money is on there being a dungeon). Hopefully it’s a permanent addition to the game that has dungeon tokens for armour (although Robert has also posted saying there are no new armour sets with the Southsun story content, hopefully he just means skins or there is some other kind of loop hole). I’d love to be able to buy Apothecary armour with dungeon tokens instead of gold (admittedly the stuff is pretty affordable right now thanks to the changes and ascended trinkets aren’t obtained with gold).

I personally don’t like roaming in WvW, it doesn’t feel very productive. If I want to WvW I’ll either run with the main force (on my server that’s usually 25 or less people) or do small ops supply camp capping, and I personally believe bunker builds don’t offer much to either of those play styles (it’s commonly believed bunkers bring very little to team fights). If I really wanted to run a BM bunker build, sPvP is the best place for it. Even in dungeons I believe power builds are better, especially when puging with a high chance of reaching the condition damage cap (combined with the high risk of a dead pet which wastes 30 trait points). I also don’t like to be without Swoop in WvW. That skill saves your life more than anything else will but the great sword doesn’t play well with condition builds.

It’s funny, WvW has so little to do with skilled PvP and more to do with numbers, coverage and zerg tactics, I feel silly trying to bring a duelling build there when I could be taking supply camps or supporting my allies better with a different build.

Why is a thread about the availability of a PvE exclusive gear set full of posts about sPvP?

(edited by Shiren.9532)

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Posted by: Zenith.7301

Zenith.7301

Zenith, why troll? You know I play dungeons and wvw only. You can’t even get apothecary in spvp, I don’t know why you keep derailing this thread.

Apothecary is called Shaman in sPvP.

Eh… it’s close but not quite the same. Shaman in sPvP has the major traits switched. Shaman is toughness major while Apothecary is healing major. I’d use the toughness major if possible in WvW if they had it, but unfortunately it’s restricted to sPvP ;(

On the bright side. the extra healing power is better with the myriad condi builds running wvw as of late, at least on my servers.

I’ve come across a LOT more engineers and staff condi mesmers, and the toughness is useless against them (and even with 2170 toughness instead of the 2.3k you can get in spvp burst specs can’t touch you — wvw thieves might as well get lost because even with stealth spam assuming I’m not feeling like dropping the trap on them I’ll just heal back up, and I carry spirit for those times where you want a self rez).

My pet with agility training is still getting kited to kingdom come, though. I’m gonna start testing ranged pets to see if their projectiles can land on moving opponents because against anyone competent these melee pets are useless and always trailing behind, so I might as well squeeze as much damage as I can from a pet that CAN hit someone more often than every 5-6 seconds.

I also can’t make up my mind on which runes I prefer to run, Undead or Dwayna….

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Posted by: Amins.3710

Amins.3710

Guardian has aoe group stability, prot, regen, condition clear, sanctuary, aegis, an instant chunk of group heal with virtue, symbols granting the group fields for retaliation. Empower gives the group healing and easy stacks of might on top of healing and ground control, without needing to occupy a utility slot. They also do deceptive damage because when specced their burning and retal will eat you up pretty quickly. They have group blinds.

I love people who state every spec into 1 and assume they can do it all at the same time…

Those 30/30/30/30/30 specs are SOOO OP, especially when they get a 6th utility slot.

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Posted by: roamzero.9486

roamzero.9486

Apothecary trinkets are now super affordable in the new SS exotics (around 50s a piece).

I feel sorry for anyone that spent 200g on a crafted set :p

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Posted by: lLobo.7960

lLobo.7960

The crafted apothecary trinkets also went down a lot with the last update..
You can buy some for 5-6g now

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Posted by: Furajir.3815

Furajir.3815

Apothecary trinkets are now super affordable in the new SS exotics (around 50s a piece).

I feel sorry for anyone that spent 200g on a crafted set :p

That was me months ago =(

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Posted by: Wooli.1780

Wooli.1780

The settlers are primary toughness tho instead of the crafted primary HP

Wich one would be best to have in the end?

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Posted by: Shiren.9532

Shiren.9532

I think it depends on what you are fighting. If conditions are going to be trouble, healing power would be better. If it’s direct damage, toughness would probably be better. The settler items might favour toughness but they still have passiflora jewels, so it’s bit more of a balance than straight up Apothecary of sPvP Shaman stats.

The difference between the two isn’t that dramatic so in terms of cost, I don’t see why many people right now would be buying the Apothecary exotics if they know about the settler ones, but I’ve never done the maths. The difference could become relevant when you crunch the numbers.

You could try favouring more condition removal if you are concerned about conditions. In my experience, conditional removal comes at a lesser cost than stacking vitality or healing power to counter conditions.

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Posted by: Zenith.7301

Zenith.7301

Guardian has aoe group stability, prot, regen, condition clear, sanctuary, aegis, an instant chunk of group heal with virtue, symbols granting the group fields for retaliation. Empower gives the group healing and easy stacks of might on top of healing and ground control, without needing to occupy a utility slot. They also do deceptive damage because when specced their burning and retal will eat you up pretty quickly. They have group blinds.

I love people who state every spec into 1 and assume they can do it all at the same time…

Those 30/30/30/30/30 specs are SOOO OP, especially when they get a 6th utility slot.

Staff, utilities, 0/0/30/30/10. Most of what’s listed there came from utilities and weapons, not traits btw. You can use either greatsword or hammer as the 2ndary, the condition clear alone is from purity and the signet heal and purging flames, and stand your ground and hold the line. If you take hammer just switch hold the line for sanctuary.

(edited by Zenith.7301)

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Posted by: GrizzlyAdams.2987

GrizzlyAdams.2987

I would like to get back to some points at the beginning of the topic – to the Pve aspect.

I’m pretty new to rangers and GW2 in general. I found a ton of builds for WvsW and sPvp, but there is way less informtion about dungeon builds.

After reading through the forum and this post it seems I need two sets of gear – one for pvp/wvsw (condi) and one for dungeons (power) :/.

What build and gear would you guys recommend for dungeons? I don’t prefer a specific weapon set, so feel free to just share yours.

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Posted by: atheria.2837

atheria.2837

I have been patiently waiting for this update in hopes flower prices would drop. I tried to theory build a condi/regen Ranger but needed apothecary gear.

And I was going to ask if it wouldn’t be best to use Axe/Dagger & Sword/Torch to keep the condi going but Faux Sheaux answered it already. So the 2nd question is; is it better to build for more condi damage or more condi duration? Or is it best to balance them? Say your gear is apothecary, weapons are giver and sigils are +10% xxcondi dmg type?

So my main Ranger is retired with its longbow and my alt Sylvari Ranger will have a go with the gear. (I created two rangers at launch because I loved the profession).

Glad to know I am not the only one who wanted two Rangers… I was told I was nuts by a few “friends”…

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