Guild Wars 2

Yasha.5963:

Sleepy- spvp is the only place you can hope to acertain class balance. It is ridiculous to even bring up WvW in any discussion of class balance.

Also your point about rangers not having the tools to “capturing/holding” points but being good at killing is just silly- sure ranger is not a good bunker, but taking points involves either killing or quickly getting to an undefended point, one which you claim ranger is good at and the other you can get with the right build.

WvW is great and all, but boasting about how you own undergeared players in that gankfest is hardly a measure of your skill or class strength.

And getting killed because you have to stay inside a small circle is not what a ranger is meant to do, join sPvP and do real PvP not caring about capturing and you will find that ranger is ok, conclusion? sPvP system is the issue.
Ranger is perfectly fine doing PvP vs most of the classes, why does it have to kill someone in 2 seconds or stand still because a crappy battleground forces you to do so?
I really hope they implement 1v1, 2v2 arenas to find the real balance and not the balance based on a crappy battleground that simply makes use of the classes with more escapes/burst/tanky builds

Sleepy.2647:

If you think rangers do two times less damage than other classes in dungeons i think the one who has a lot of imagination is you.

Yes, melee classes also have ranged attacks, how many of them hit 700-1500 per shortbow autoattack (2 per second), gain quickness every 15-20 seconds and have a pet that also does 1-3k damage if you can keep it alive (which is not as hard as people say, just in certain encounters they die almost instantly). Not to mention skills like QZ that pretty much allow you to switch to longbow and use vulnerability and then rapid fire + QZ and Barrage, you get to shoot Rapid Fire and almost a whole Barrage in those 4 seconds…with berseker gear that’s like 7-13k Rapid Fire and i don’t even know how much from Barrage.

My imagination is so good that i did these tests always in twilight arbor right before the first boss, i get behind one of the worms and hit the one the rest are hitting, i do the same most of the times in all pulls but on that one i can clearly see my damage output and i send the pet to the one the rest of the team is attacking so that’s actually less damage. Also on magg path with the two guards right before the bomb i did the same testing…same result and that one actually hits back.

If you saw a ranger dying a lot in dungeons or you die a lot in dungeons then you/they are doing something wrong.

If you ever see a ranger doing poor damage in dungeons it’s because they are using Axe, GS or who knows what else as main weapon, and they use bad traits.

Oh.. I did =) ! I just have no guardian, mesmer and elementalist. But almost! But I play them (have a lot of friends ;P)!
First, I must say that in this game is no such thing as reroll. As a character can get full exotic gear in the first day it will be 80. Everything important is shared through the account etc. In general you can play any character you want, the others from this that does not lose. Important only fan and temporary preferences ).
I played ranger more than 500 hours already (yes, i play much). I can not say that I do not like it (or else would I play him?). I can say that it seems to me … not completed yet. Ranger can overdamage only necromancer. But only to a point. Doing to necro Cond build+epidemy= damage that ranger did not dream for. Plus, necromancer have very evil AoE (ranger not). So perhaps the ranger and then loses…
Ranger kind of reminds me… eeem… a “weak” engineer. Devs decided to give him a pet and, therefore, nerf a little. But overdone. And then forgot about him. And then forgot to remember. Something like that)
The class turned out good. But only dull alittle… Few working abilities… Builds some “one-sided”… And pet – a paper brake. And the rest is normal. Can play. But it would be better. Somehow sorry to spend time on the legendary for him…
Here you have an exhaustive description of the Ranger: ok, but it would be better. And do not tell me what all on this forum skilled rangers, and this class just not for me. All my life I play such classes in all the games that have them. I know what I’m saying. Ranger is not ready yet. Need a lot of improvement. But we ignored bu devs. I think much because of posts like “Ranger is super. I’m pro and I’m fine. You are all just fools. Go learn how to play”.

No one said ranger is fine, it needs tweaking but all the ones who say it’s the worst for PvE and PvP simply need to play better their ranger, period.

You can just say that ranger is not good for sPvP overall, but not being good in sPvP doesn’t mean it’s bad for PvP, they are two completely different things, if someone fails to understand that go ahead and play another class convinced that ranger is the worst one.

I bet you won’t see a decent ranger complaining that they are crap for PvP and PvE, most of the ones who QQ like that are the ones who fail at using one properly.

Sleepy, sPVP actually IS a form of ‘real’ PVP. WvW is not the only aspect of the game. Killing power isn’t the only measure of PvP. And for the record, I generally win 7 out of 10 games on my ranger. I think i actually win more games on my ranger than I do on my thief, maybe I’m just lucky that way with random teams.

And no one besides bad players is saying that the ranger class is “Crap”. They’re only saying that whatever role a ranger tries to fill in highly organized play is done better by another class. There is a world of difference between random games and the finely tuned, highly coordinated play of tPVP.

Anyone can take any class an have moderate success in most aspects of GW2 PvP. But once you start getting into the upper levels of play is when the flaws and faults of a class start to show.

All classes can super specialize into a specific role and be part of a team effort in order to maximize their effectiveness. The team becomes greater than the sum of individuals due to teamwork and proper use of these specialized roles. The problem with the ranger class is that whatever role it can try to specialize into is simply done better by another class.

Whether you like sPVP or not, that is a very important aspect of PVP. I’m sorry that you don’t believe that sPVP flaws with the class mean anything, but many players do engage in sPVP every day. Every other class has been built to be a very effective part of sPVP. Why is ranger being ignored in this aspect? Why are the players who play as a ranger being ignored on this issue?

It’s clear that you don’t like and disregard sPVP, but many other people like and enjoy it. All they’re asking for is that their class have the same option to specialize into an effective role for it. It doesn’t make them bad players simply because they disagree with you.

I’m in the same camp as many others.
PvE – I like my Ranger and it performs decently.
PvP – My ranger is outperformed by any other class as it stands now.

I don’t call bad players to anyone that disagree with me, but there are plenty of comments saying ranger is the worst class for BOTH PvE and PvP even stating that any other class does much higher dps in PvE which is a joke.

And if you didn’t notice, most of them just quote the SB nerf as the biggest nerf in history when it’s a complete joke of nerf, no one can actually notice it outside QZ and you can still use QZ/quickness from pet with other weapons. Pre SB nerf ranger was decent but after the nerf “ohhh god it’s unplayable and the worst class”…yea…right.

You just agreed with me that ranger PvP can hold its own, it just lacks variety of builds and more oriented sPvP/tPvP traits/mechanism.

As i said plenty of times, to me PvP is not sPvP nor tPvP, sure it’s a form of PvP. The only PvP this game has is not sPvP, and that’s where some people fail to understand, some people will like WvW and others will like sPvP more, both have PvP aspect but WvW can offer you “World PvP” feeling, not just zergs.

I am a spvper and a tpvper but have yet to start on my WvW conquest yet. I speak from about as much experience as you can get in spvp and good enough tpvp experience, ranger is mediocre at best atm, and I for 1 look forward to the changes supposedly coming next patch. I planned on being mostly WvW when the game was released but have been waiting for my favorite class ( that would be ranger ) to get fixed and made a viable choice over necros or thieves. Hopefully these fixes do that, either way Im confident atleast 1 more build that isnt conditions will be made viable after these fixes and I hope it includes longbow. I will continue getting my ranger too 80 and maxing his gear out so I can compete in WvW with my guild The Industry {Work}.

I also agree with sleepy, the nerf to shortbow is barely noticeable except with QZ, people just wanted something to cry about. Maybe this will placate them too.

WvW is no PvP its EvE.
(Equip vs equip)

Sdric.8526:

WvW is no PvP its EvE.
(Equip vs equip)

Not really, since people have access too the same stat gear with minimal effort its more about Level vs Level, until everyone in there is 80. Then it becomes Pvpve.

Sleepy.2647:

I don’t call bad players to anyone that disagree with me,

O rly? What do you call these quotes of yours then?

I don’t agree with everyone that says ranger is the worst class for PvP or that they are useless Most people who say that just play it wrong, or don’t know how to take advantage of Ranger strengths.

No one said ranger is fine, it needs tweaking but all the ones who say it’s the worst for PvE and PvP simply need to play better their ranger, period.

I bet you won’t see a decent ranger complaining that they are crap for PvP and PvE, most of the ones who QQ like that are the ones who fail at using one properly.

The thing is, there ARE some very good ranger players out there who are doing the math and the testing and the number crunching. They’ve provided solid data that rangers actually are simply not as good when compared to other classes. Not just in PvP, but in PVE as well. Even the devs agree.

You just agreed with me that ranger PvP can hold its own, it just lacks variety of builds and more oriented sPvP/tPvP traits/mechanism.

What I said is that anyone can have moderate success with the ranger. But the ranger being moderately good isn’t going to cut it when you have to be very good at a specialized role to remain competitive in the upper brackets of tournaments and other highly coordinated play.

I don’t know how many different ways I can say it to try and get through to you. I’m glad you’re enjoying ranger, I’m loving mine! But personal enjoyment doesn’t magically make the class into something it isn’t. No matter how much you enjoy driving your ferrari, it doesn’t mean it can compete in an F1 race!

As i said plenty of times, to me PvP is not sPvP nor tPvP, sure it’s a form of PvP. The only PvP this game has is not sPvP, and that’s where some people fail to understand, some people will like WvW and others will like sPvP more, both have PvP aspect but WvW can offer you “World PvP” feeling, not just zergs.

Your own narrow definition of what PvP is continues to baffle and astound me. GW2 offers many different types of PVP: World vs World, Structured PVP, and Tournament PVP. Most classes are very good at all of these. Ranger is simply not as good at sPvP and tPVP. Why? Why shouldn’t Ranger be just as good at all aspects of the game as every other class? Why is ranger the only class that doesn’t have a specific role to fill in sPVP and tPVP, and is left with some kind of weak jack-of-all-trades nonsense?

Anyone, especially highly skilled players, can make ranger work at the low end. But you don’t balance around the low end. You balance around the specialized and optimized roles that are squeezing every ounce of advantage they can get out of a class. And in that environment the ranger class does not match up against ANY other class for ANY of the specialized roles that high-level teamwork play require.

I’m sorry if you don’t understand the dynamics of the high-end team play that goes into coordinated sPVP and tPVP. I’m sorry that your view of PvP only includes the ability of a class to kill people. But there is a whole world of depth to teamwork and PvP beyond that. I’m done trying to educate you. I’m just glad the devs recognized the problem and are taking steps to remedy it.

You guys aren’t looking at the whole picture when talking about the Ranger.

Those who say that you can’t use a Ranger in SPvP are incorrect, The Problem is you really have only one viable build and that’s Traps. Every other build is a joke compared to the other classes.

At the same time, Traps Builds are absolutely useless in WvW because you’re not limited to fighting on points and they suck at Keep Offense and Defense because of the range.

In World vs World, the game plays differently, and is honestly more difficult then Structured as you have to deal with even more Damage then SPvP. Winning a 1v1 in World vs World is more challenging then SPvP because of this… Hell factoring in the advantage alone of Orbs and you’re either fighting an uphill battle or you’re stomping people fairly easy.

Anyway Certain builds work better in World vs World, Crit/Power Builds are good for defending keeps and zerg surfing, But are absolutely crap if you want to solo in World vs World and be remotely effective.

At the same time, The build I run, Absolutely murders most classes 1v1 fairly easily, The only class I’ve had trouble with is an Elementalist who could remove my Conditions, and after changing my build up more, I’m sure I could actually beat her now quite easily.

However this build is very heavily reliant on something that’s not even apart of the Ranger class, and that’s Pain Converter from Asura’s Racial… This Rips pretty much every single Burst Related Class in two in this game. Thieves Unless they simply jump me while i’m fighting someone else..Are an absolute joke with this ability.

You can compete on a Ranger in this game, the problem is its a very narrow version of competing and its very un ranger like.

@Eliteseraph

All i keep reading from you is sPvP blah blah blah tPvP blah blah blah.

I said it countless times, i know exactly how it is sPvP and tPvP and i know ranger doesn’t have variety in builds choice for it, and the one/ones it has are very limited at it, but “your narrow mind” won’t ever understand that.

Oh i’m so glad devs answered saying they were gonna make changes, however don’t set your expectations that high, mind you? I don’t even think they are going to turn around Ranger class magically and fix so many flaws in a blink of eye.
Devs never said anywhere that rangers are below other classes, they said ranger has many semi useless skills/traits which is completely different.

Do you even play anything besides sPvP/tPvP? All i see is is tPvP this sPvP that…everyone knows how ranger is in there, i never said otherwise. Post those dear tests comparing Ranger to other classes, because so far all i have seen is people crying because QZ doesn’t work properly with shortbow…OH MY GOD WE ARE DOOMED!

I never claimed that Ranger is a beast in sPvP/tPvP, i said Ranger can be played perfectly FINE in PvE, WvW and PvP (Player Versus Player, that’s not sPvP or tPvP, it’s simply PvP)

Now, is it just me that knows GW2 actually has PvP and not just sPvP/tPvP or am i simply on drugs? Guess i need my medication….

I play a level 80 ranger in PvE and he does good. Can’t take a hit but can do some decent damage. However, I have seen where rogue’s and warriors, especially warriors, seem to be doing better damage then me with a bow. I know this isn’t the best way to go off of it but I have attacked one mob, I started the attack first, then I saw a warrior attack with a bow another mob near me. He finished with his mob before I could finish mine. The hole time I had to run around in circles because my cat wouldn’t tank and I think it only got one hit in because the mob was chasing me around. But the warrior finished off his mob and changed target to my mob to finish. I’m fully rare crit speced armor and weapons. Both mobs where risen of the same type, so i’m sure the HP where similar. I haven’t PvP’ed yet because from what I’ve read and seen, I’m not sure if I stand a chance, since I’ve been a PvE gamer my entire life and only started PvPing when I started playing SWTOR.

I think the problem ranger’s have is they are the jack of all trade’s, master of none. Which explains why other classes can do what they do…only better then us.

Akisame, that’s right, Warrior have better burst so it’s quite common they kill weak mobs faster. Ranger damage is pretty much always the same because our main damage comes from autoattack but on high HP targets our damage is just as good. Let’s say we hit for 2k per second over 30 seconds, but other classes instead of sustained DPS have burst skills that deal 5-15k instantly, in the first few seconds their DPS will be higher but after a while it becomes pretty much the same. The numbers are just an example.

The main issue with Ranger is the pet plays an important role in our damage, but in certain situations they deal no damage because they die or can’t hit. Like for example when we stand on top of a wall/roof and hit targets that are not on our same spot the pet will simply stay there with you, or like you said when you kite our melee pets will simply keep chasing the target most of the times not doing any damage.

in spvp or wvw rangers are in good or at least ok shape. there are only a few builds that make problems at all, but thats also ok, since everything should have a counter. especially in spvp pets can be a great help…ofc dps-pets r not the best option here, same goes for trait spec -full dps-glasscanon can work, but there r better options, thankfully. nothin is more lame and skillless then builds that can 3-shot players or let them die in stunlock before u even get a chance to react.

imo main problem with rangers in gw2 is ppl coming from other mmo’s and think that rangers must be able just to shoot stuff from distance with their bows while kite around, being faster then everyone else and never touched. huntardstyle. thank the gods its not the same in gw2. it’s cool e.g. that as a pure melee ranger u r able to outclass and kill lots (/most!) warriors/thieves around. it’s cool that one has the option to play ranger ranged or melee or both or something in between. i hope they won’t change this in the future.

imo the weaponpowers of rangers are one of the best (for pvp), maybe excluding axe and well, warhorn is more like utility-skill in between fights. the heals r ok, elites r ok…some of the utility-skills need work over, but thats also for other classes as well, so nothing special here.

EDIT:
- theres trait that gives pets higher move-speed. i always have it and my pet hits enemyplayers…
- pets r more for utility. choose a pet that can “jump” on target, maybe cripple or freeze it, so u get kiters. and for tanky-players, u dont even need that
-it would be lame at all if your pet could hit the enemy evrytime without a drawback. that would be overpowered
-one doesn’t need to do the highest burst dmg to be successful. that goes for classes in general, like for warriors, or also for class-comparison. its the usage of burst/dmg on one hand and defense/evading on the other that counts. and rangers are more balanced here, lets say even more on the defensive site. use it!