Guild Wars 2

Marksmanship

• Minor: Opening Strike – 5x Vulnerability(5s)
• Minor: Alpha Training – Pet has Opening Strike
• Minor: Precise Strike – Opening Strike always crits
• Adept: Beastmaster’s Bond – Cast Call of the Wild when you swap pets.
• Master: Moment of Clarity – +150% dmg (Ranger & Pet) when you Interrupt & +100% Daze Duration
• Grandmaster: Remorseless – Regain Opening Strike whenever you gain Fury. Opening Strike does +25% damage.

WIlderness Survival

• Minor: Natural Vigor – +25% Endurance Regeneration
• Minor: Companion’s Defense – You and Pet gain Protection(2.5s) when You Dodge Roll.
• Minor: Barkskin – Take 50% less damage while above 90% health.
• Adept: Expertise Training – Pet gains +350% condition damage and +20% condition duration.
• Master: Oakheart Salve – Gain Regeneration when poison/bleeding/burning applied to you. 5% Damage Reduction when you have Regeneration
• Grandmaster: Wilderness Knowledge – Survival Skills cleanse 2 conditions and give Fury(6s). Survival Skill Cd Reduction 20%. Gain Sharpening Stone when you hit a foe below the 75% threshold.

Beastmastery

• Minor: Instinctual Bond – Pet gains Quickness(5s) when you are downed.
• Minor: Loud Whistle – Pet skills recharge 20% faster. Pet swap recharges 20% faster.
• Minor: Pet’s Prowess – Pet gains +450 Ferocity. Pet gains +30% Movespeed.
• Adept: Companion’s Might – Your critical hits give your pet Might(5s)
  -or-
  Adept: Rending Attacks – Your pets critical hits apply Bleeding(6s)
• Two-handed Training – +5% Greatsword damage. 50% Chance on-hit to gain Fury (3s). 20% Greatsword Cd Reduction
• Grandmaster: Beastly Warden – Your pet taunts when executing F2 ability
  -or-
  Grandmaster: Zephyr’s Speed – You and Pet gain Quickness(3s) and 3x Might(15s) when you swap pets.

So, let’s go over what we have here.
Opening Strike is an automatic critical hit and gains +25% additional damage on top of the critical damage bonus from your Ferocity.

You will regain Opening Strike every time you gain Fury. You will regain fury when:

• You use any skill 6,7,8,9,10 as you will be taking all Survival Skills (they are awesome anyways!)
• You swap pets (16s cooldown thanks to Beastmastery)
• 50% of the time you hit w/ Greatsword … though a 10s ICD on this

That quite a bit of guaranteed critical hits AND vulnerability (5 Vuln per opening strike).

This frees you up from some precision on your gear so you can perhaps replace some armor pieces with, for instance Cavalier, to gain some more survivability.

You have plenty of condition removal just from having 5 survival skills.

Your pet is going to be monstrous as its conditions will last longer (more dmg or more CD based on pet) and it will have the much needed +30% movespeed needed to stick to targets.

On top of this, every 2nd time you pet swap (16s cooldown on pet swap, 30s ICD on trait), you will gain Fury, Might, and Swiftness.

Every time you pet swap you’ll gain Quickness and Might … as will your pet :-)

Lastly, you can get bonus damage from interrupting foes … and your dazes last twice as long. This combined with the reduced cooldown on Greatsword abilities makes Greatsword #5 a much bigger threat.

I know some people have expressed unhappiness with where Greatsword is in the Specializations, but I’m personally happy with it. Most people who have played melee ranger builds are well-aware that when you are a melee ranger, your pet is often right there with you as opposed to ranged builds where the pet has a gap between you and the target; particularly when you pet swap.

When you are in melee with someone and pet swap, your pet with all its Might, Fury, Swiftness, and Quickness is already right there on top of your opponent. With a canine, that gives your opponent less than a second to realize you swapped in a canine that is immediately casting its knockdown while under Quickness. Or for your opponent to crumple under the onslaught of a cat/bird … or whatever other wonderful critter you have running with you.

Even better is when you throw down Muddy Terrain that immobilizes your opponent while giving you Fury which gives you Opening Strike for a guaranteed crit with +25% dmg … Maul anyone?

How about you follow that with an Entangle which will do the same again.

Perhaps then Hilt Bash for a nice +150% damage.

I like Resounding Timbre, so I will swap TU for “HaO” and Entangle for “RaO” for more mobility/regen. Can swap QZ for “Sic Em” or “Protect Me” as the situation requires. Other than that, I would almost be the same. But I’ll use all Cavalier gear and intelligence sigils on GS and OH Axe. Hawk/Eagle for more swiftness and long bleeds.

I have high hopes for this build.

One thing that do worry me is thieves. This build has almost no defense against them, their blindspam, and their huge dps pressure. Thieves are the reason why zerk meta is being pushed out.

@runeblade:
I don’t imagine this build being a “Zerk” build as the Precision is largely unnecessary given the large availability of auto-crits. Instead, replace that Precision with Toughness … or healing / vitality … or some mix.

I didn’t touch on Sigils, but Heimskarl brought up another good point … with Intelligence Sigils you can get even more auto-crits.

@Heimskarl:
That sounds quite solid as well. More access to Regen will help ensure you benefit from that Oakheart Salve even more.

I’ll have look again at the difference in healing between Heal As One and Troll Unguent, but I believe last time I compared the two that Troll Unguent won quite handily.

I was thinking I could possibly get that Regeneration from somewhere else instead of from my heal. Regeneration is nice, but Regeneration w/ Troll Unguent will pick anyone up

Sebrent.3625:

@runeblade:
I don’t imagine this build being a “Zerk” build as the Precision is largely unnecessary given the large availability of auto-crits. Instead, replace that Precision with Toughness … or healing / vitality … or some mix.

I didn’t touch on Sigils, but Heimskarl brought up another good point … with Intelligence Sigils you can get even more auto-crits.

GS trait is largely dependent on Precision. Even with auto-crits, there is is an RNG chance that GS trait will grant fury.

I would rather get out of the Beastmaster line and go straight in Skirmishing just to get Quickdraw if I am going to go no precision. Plus with tail wind, I can get more auto-crits and it is synergetic with sigil of intel.

With such build Barbarian, Sentinel and Soldier amulets are good call, since it will make the “above 90% HP” for bark skin have a bigger range.
I can already see a good potential in this build, specially because it use weapons that I really like, GS and Axe

Too bad we can’t take the Skirmish line too :/ We can get fury from swapping weapon if we choose skirmishing. Also Quick Hand’s double Maul sounds great too. Guess Anet does consider these facts and don’t want us be able to do so.

runeblade.7514:

Sebrent.3625:

@runeblade:
I don’t imagine this build being a “Zerk” build as the Precision is largely unnecessary given the large availability of auto-crits. Instead, replace that Precision with Toughness … or healing / vitality … or some mix.

I didn’t touch on Sigils, but Heimskarl brought up another good point … with Intelligence Sigils you can get even more auto-crits.

GS trait is largely dependent on Precision. Even with auto-crits, there is is an RNG chance that GS trait will grant fury.

I would rather get out of the Beastmaster line and go straight in Skirmishing just to get Quickdraw if I am going to go no precision. Plus with tail wind, I can get more auto-crits and it is synergetic with sigil of intel.

Stats are taken out from the trait line bro.

I don’t see how “Greatsword is largely dependent on precision”. I disagree … especially since I’ve very successfully run a full Cleric Greatsword / Sword+Dagger build in PvP on multiple occasions over the years.

Heck, Durzlla saw me running the Cleric version and Settler’s Version (that uses Shortbow/Axe+Dagger) the other night playing around in a dueling arena and said something along the lines of:

It’s like watching Terminator.
They keep throwing damage at you, but it does nothing and you keep on coming.

The reasons I’m a big fan of Beastmastery for this are:

• +30% movespeed for pet helps your pet be where you need it. Your pet is part of you … damage, cc, etc. You don’t want this out of position
• You get buffed every time you pet swap. Reducing the cooldown on this allows you to be buffed more.
• 20% Cooldown reduction on your pet’s F2 is extremely helpful … more so with pets like Canines … even better when you’re also improving the duration of their conditions … longer fear more often for Wolf … longer immobilize more often for Drakehound … or longer bleeds/chills from birds if that is your preference.
• Quickening Zephyr provides the highest up-time on Quickness in the game. Now it is also giving you Might and pairing with another trait to give you more Might, Swiftness, and Fury (which gives you an Opening Strike again).
• I’d rather stay in my Greatsword and it give me fury 50% of my hits (not crits) once every 10s … while also having +5% damage and -20% cooldowns … this beats the heck out of Tail Wind in my mind especially since that requires me to swap weapons to gain the Fury instead of just continuing with the weapon I want to stick with.

Toxsa.2701:

runeblade.7514:

Sebrent.3625:

@runeblade:
I don’t imagine this build being a “Zerk” build as the Precision is largely unnecessary given the large availability of auto-crits. Instead, replace that Precision with Toughness … or healing / vitality … or some mix.

I didn’t touch on Sigils, but Heimskarl brought up another good point … with Intelligence Sigils you can get even more auto-crits.

GS trait is largely dependent on Precision. Even with auto-crits, there is is an RNG chance that GS trait will grant fury.

I would rather get out of the Beastmaster line and go straight in Skirmishing just to get Quickdraw if I am going to go no precision. Plus with tail wind, I can get more auto-crits and it is synergetic with sigil of intel.

Stats are taken out from the trait line bro.

Your point?

runeblade.7514:

Toxsa.2701:

runeblade.7514:

Sebrent.3625:

@runeblade:
I don’t imagine this build being a “Zerk” build as the Precision is largely unnecessary given the large availability of auto-crits. Instead, replace that Precision with Toughness … or healing / vitality … or some mix.

I didn’t touch on Sigils, but Heimskarl brought up another good point … with Intelligence Sigils you can get even more auto-crits.

GS trait is largely dependent on Precision. Even with auto-crits, there is is an RNG chance that GS trait will grant fury.

I would rather get out of the Beastmaster line and go straight in Skirmishing just to get Quickdraw if I am going to go no precision. Plus with tail wind, I can get more auto-crits and it is synergetic with sigil of intel.

Stats are taken out from the trait line bro.

Your point?

You said you go for Skirmish Line for “more precision”. But you don’t get any extra precision from that trait line after the update. Where’s the “more precision”?
Also why do you need “more precision” when you have 100% crit rate every time you refreshes opening strike? Also GS grants fury ON HIT, not ON CRIT.

We used to pick that trait line for stat purpose mostly, but now if you don’t want Quick Hand, there’s no reason to get that trait line.

Sebrent.3625:

I don’t see how “Greatsword is largely dependent on precision”. I disagree … especially since I’ve very successfully run a full Cleric Greatsword / Sword+Dagger build in PvP on multiple occasions over the years.

Because Remorseless refreshes Opening Strike on fury. Precise strike grants 100% crits with opening strikes. Greatsword give has 50% to grant fury on crits, you’re gonna need precision if you want consistent fury and Opening strikes from GS.

Your cleric GS and S/D build is irrelevant to this build discussion since they are both fundamentally different.

Toxsa.2701:

runeblade.7514:

Toxsa.2701:

runeblade.7514:

Sebrent.3625:

@runeblade:
I don’t imagine this build being a “Zerk” build as the Precision is largely unnecessary given the large availability of auto-crits. Instead, replace that Precision with Toughness … or healing / vitality … or some mix.

I didn’t touch on Sigils, but Heimskarl brought up another good point … with Intelligence Sigils you can get even more auto-crits.

GS trait is largely dependent on Precision. Even with auto-crits, there is is an RNG chance that GS trait will grant fury.

I would rather get out of the Beastmaster line and go straight in Skirmishing just to get Quickdraw if I am going to go no precision. Plus with tail wind, I can get more auto-crits and it is synergetic with sigil of intel.

Stats are taken out from the trait line bro.

Your point?

You said you go for Skirmish Line for “more precision”. But you don’t get any extra precision from that trait line now. Where’s the “more precision”?

No I didn’t. Where did I say "go for Skirmish Line for “more precision”." I said go for skirmishing line for quick draw.

Greatsword training trait requires precision. Guess what, Greatsword Training is in Beastmaster line.

Since OP doesn’t want precision for consistent fury so that he can wear Valk gear(Power/tough/fero), Greatsword training trait is useless. The entire beastmaster line isn’t all that great anymore. So go for skirmishing line for quick draw.

Bold added by me…

Because Remorseless refreshes Opening Strike on fury. Precise strike grants 100% crits with opening strikes. Greatsword give has 50% to grant fury on crits, you’re gonna need precision if you want consistent fury and Opening strikes from GS.

Your cleric GS and S/D build is irrelevant to this build discussion since they are both fundamentally different.

Please re-read that trait.
It is on-hit … it is not on-crit. I have stated this multiple times.

As such, you have zero need for crit for it.

If you want to crit more often, go for it and sacrifice some of your tanky stats for some precision. I personally feel I have enough ways to auto-crit on the attacks I really want critting that I’d prefer to be tankier … not to mention you’d have +20% crit chance from all the Fury.

My Greatsword build isn’t a negligible point since it has shown that Greatsword can do more than fine without any crits at all.

skirmishing minor is another fury on swap so another opening strike i think thats what runeblade ment.

Why not go both skirmishing and BM?(6-6-0-0-6) GS-S-A ? ya with this build you can mainmax mostly on valkyrie /cavalier/zerk.

OFc both quick draw and MOC should be picked for this build.
Rune of the Trooper
2 Sigil of Cleansing
2 Sigil of Energy

heal, 2 utilites and elite – all shouts. – 1 utility LR or SOR

BM trait line is very strong, i like it alot.

I will definitely be using this or some variant of this when the changes hit. I already strongly favor axes and greatswords for my beastmaster cleric build, and this set up will capitalize on those weapons perfectly and make up for the low precision. Though I immediately thought soldier as well as it has such a high power stat along with great defensive stats.

I like the possible variety of choices. Though I’m sure it’s a matter of time someone finds the absolute optimal way to run it.

I will miss Fortifying Bond, though. If condition cleansing wasn’t so limited I might have tried a variant with Nature Magic for the Protective Ward GM that spams weakness on your enemies. Maybe I could get by with Signet of Renewal and Healing Spring like I do now, but only time will tell. With Cleric’s amulet I’d go with Nature’s Wrath, but with Soldier’s probably Bountiful Hunter. Then grab Evasive Purity to deal with poison or Vigorous Training for more dodges… Could work.

@LughLongArm:
There are several reason not taking both Skirmishing and Beastmastery in this build and they revolve around having Wilderness Survival.

Wilderness Survival is going you a good bit more survivability.
More importantly, it is also improving all your Survival Skills which will have reduced cooldowns, give Fury, remove 2 conditions each, and gain Sharpening Stone for a little bleed damage.

That’s great that every 10s I can swap away from my Greatsword to gain Opening Strike with the Fury on weapon swap … but what weapon am I going to want to switch to for that OPening Strike? I’m in melee range with the Greatsword so Longbow isn’t a good choice. Rapid Fire won’t benefit very well because it will only affect the first hit of that chain which is much weaker than having Opening Strike on something like Maul.

The only weapon I can think I’d want to swap to from Greatsword for an OPening Strike is OH Axe Path of Scars.

I don’t want to be swapping weapons just for a single auto-crit. I want to swap weapons because the current situation calls for me to swap weapons.

I was going to go for a similar build, but with a few changes:

In Marks I’d take signets, perhaps 3, but at least stone and wild.
I’d go nature magic instead of wilderness survival, with bountiful hunter, windbourne notes, and protecting ward
BM, might take shouts with HaO and RaO for that juggernaut feel. It depends on how those perform. Of I take shouts, I might change windbourne notes for vigorous training or evasive purity, it depends. Otherwise, as stated.

I feel like I’d be getting more out of NM than WS, but really I’d probably like to keep my original build, which went 2/0/6/6/0, but that cannot be

@Sebrent.3625
Hi,
Did I say anything about LB? GS – S-A
I go with shouts not Survival, tons of synergie( reduce CD, swiftness prema- regeneration prema – condi reomve from rune set) for fury muliti application i got fury on weapon swap – fury on GS – fury on pet swap(from the call of the wild trait) AND RAO which give fury every 3 sec(and ya its a shout so all the benefits from shouts) + in BM i get the taunt on F2. Cant think of a better time to land combo while your foe auto attack your pet with his back to you – Hit bash will interupt(50% damage) and you are from behind(10%) if its procs remoressless(25% damage) and GS bonus(5%) ->190% maul -> with -valkyrie /cavalier/zerk gear you can 10k+ maul . and because you have quickdraw your hit bash wil be ready once more in like 5 sec so do it again -. swap weapon same thing with POS.

For defence I got nice amount of condi removal(on shout, on weapon swap) and if realy needed SoR(or LR), i got protect me on 48 CD, i got sicem vs mesmers and thives
i got tons of toughness and viality from gear, i got prema regenration/swiftness and the ability to double swoop to run away(cus of quickdraw). and OFC boss pet.
What do i miss?

In WvW, I’ll be using Defender Runes with this build too, a bit of healing power to go with the regen, more regen on Counterattack, the 5s Aegis on a 10s CD from heal, plus the 4k heal on block.

I’ll not be concerned by thieves I don’t think, will have 3500+ toughness and 2k power, with the auto crits, mobility and regen/healing condi removal, this will have insane sustain. Plus Bark Skin will shut down their initial burst with so much armor.

Looks like a decent build… Would take awhile to kill Archdiviner or Mossman.

Similar to a build I’m going to run…

6/6/0/0/6
Call of wild, Moment of Clarity, Remorseless
Most Dangerous Game, Spotter, Quick Draw
Resounding timbre, Two Handed Training, Beastly warden

GS + whatever 2nd weapon you want (perhaps SB is light of feet gets moved to master)
Heal as one + Sic Em + Sig of renewal ( need condi clear )+ X + ROA

Pets will help proc Maul set ups so hard its not even funny. Here are Maul combo’s
Pet F2 Taunt > Maul
Weapon Swap > Hit Bash > Maul (combo up again in 10 seconds!)
Pet F2 Taunt > Weapon swap > Maul > Hilt Bash Stun> Maul again! (thanks -66% CD)

Imagine that F2 is a drake F2 and they are stuck running towards your pet!

Now this is a build I look forward to running!

6/6/0/0/6 Would totally do the most damage and one I will use in PvE, but in PvP/WvW I’ll use Wilderness Knowledge instead of Quick Draw.

rpfohr.7048:

Similar to a build I’m going to run…

6/6/0/0/6
Call of wild, Moment of Clarity, Remorseless
Most Dangerous Game, Spotter, Quick Draw
Resounding timbre, Two Handed Training, Beastly warden

GS + whatever 2nd weapon you want (perhaps SB is light of feet gets moved to master)
Heal as one + Sic Em + Sig of renewal ( need condi clear )+ X + ROA

Pets will help proc Maul set ups so hard its not even funny. Here are Maul combo’s
Pet F2 Taunt > Maul
Weapon Swap > Hit Bash > Maul (combo up again in 10 seconds!)
Pet F2 Taunt > Weapon swap > Maul > Hilt Bash Stun> Maul again! (thanks -66% CD)

Imagine that F2 is a drake F2 and they are stuck running towards your pet!

Now this is a build I look forward to running!

PVE-wise this will totally work.
Maybe it’ll become the Meta in Dungeon XD.

Double GS Ranger incoming!

rpfohr.7048:

Similar to a build I’m going to run…

6/6/0/0/6
Call of wild, Moment of Clarity, Remorseless
Most Dangerous Game, Spotter, Quick Draw
Resounding timbre, Two Handed Training, Beastly warden

GS + whatever 2nd weapon you want (perhaps SB is light of feet gets moved to master)
Heal as one + Sic Em + Sig of renewal ( need condi clear )+ X + ROA

Pets will help proc Maul set ups so hard its not even funny. Here are Maul combo’s
Pet F2 Taunt > Maul
Weapon Swap > Hit Bash > Maul (combo up again in 10 seconds!)
Pet F2 Taunt > Weapon swap > Maul > Hilt Bash Stun> Maul again! (thanks -66% CD)

Imagine that F2 is a drake F2 and they are stuck running towards your pet!

Now this is a build I look forward to running!

I see Bear Arms, Bear Arms everywhere :p

Vizardlorde.8243:

I see Bear Arms, Bear Arms everywhere :p

Nice bit in the start of this with 50 rangers using Maul at the same time.

@Ghotistyx.6942
Aye, I was torn between WS or NM … but all those extra sources of Fury AND Condition Removal from WS is what really swung it for me … not to mention protection on dodge is quite excellent.

@LughLongArm.5460:

Just, as I explained earlier, I’d prefer to swap my weapon because I needed the other weapon for the current situation at hand. I don’t want to swap my weapon just to gain functionality from my sigils and traits.

I’m also not a fan of our shouts. Troll Unguent provides more healing than Heal As One. I find our Survival skills (Lightning Reflexes, Muddy Terrain, Sharpening Stone, Zephyr) to be better than our Shout skills (Sic’em, Guard, Protect Me, Search and Rescue).

I’d also prefer to have my heal, all 3 utilities, and my elite to each be a source of Fury as well as remove 2 conditions each instead of just one.

I also don’t want to feel locked into a particular Rune Set (in this case, Soldier) for my build to work. I think there are far better Runes to synergize with this … likely those that can give us even more Fury for more auto-crits (Pack comes to mind).

That combo you mentioned has an issue … Hilt Bash’s bonus does not stack with Moment of Clarity (nor Signet of the Wild). Please see the wiki page for it:

• https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hilt_Bash

Also, the Moment of Opportunity from Hilt Bash is for your pet … not you.

Another nice way to ensure you hit someone in the back of the head would be to take one of my “-or-” suggestions and take Beastly Warden instead of Zephyr’s Speed. I’m likely to stick with Zephyr’s unless Beastly Warden becomes extremely easy to land, but it is an option and from experience will likely work better for a melee Ranger than ranged Ranger.

RaO gives fury every 3s, seems like a great boost with Remorseless.

Hi and LOL, its like you don’t really read what i write, I know Hilt Bash’s bonus does not stack with Moment of Clarity didnt say they are, I also know hit bash bonus works only for pet. Look at what i wrote –
Hit bash will interrupt(50% damage) and you are from behind(10%) if its procs remoressless(25% damage) and GS bonus(5%) ->190% maul ->

The 50% you get is from interrupt not because its a hit bash bonus -> the 10% bonus is for attacking from behind, its a minor trait at skirmishing trait line.

I also wrote " in BM i get the taunt on F2" ( Beastly Warden ) and its not a range build i wrote 2 times “GS – S-A”.

About swapping weapons , you will swap when your combo actions are on CD(hit bash/pos) when u swap you gain fury to start a new combo.

If you like survival that much, cool go with it, I promote build diversity.

the way I see it, taunt GM works better if GS is your main source of damage. and quickening zephyr works better to maximize LB damage with the quickness procs.

arkealia.2713:

RaO gives fury every 3s, seems like a great boost with Remorseless.

I will not lie … I totally forgot about RaO with Remorseless. If Greatsword takes over Sword in PVE meta somewhow, I’ll be living the dream. Being able to Maul more often (20% cooldown reduction in the trait) alongside heavier mauls from Remorseless, it might just happen but even if not, if all it does is close the gap, that’ll do

I don’t think RaO will be refreshing Remorseless. that would be dumb because Remorseless doesn’t have a CD. I don’t think they’ll let it happen.

mistsim.2748:

I don’t think RaO will be refreshing Remorseless. that would be dumb because Remorseless doesn’t have a CD. I don’t think they’ll let it happen.

I don’t see how they stop it without reverting the change on RaO back to it not pulsing. Maybe they’ve already though that out though and factored it into the numbers or maybe they’ll write an exclusion but I can’t think of any boon triggering affect that has an exclusion based on where it comes from.

they can say “every new source of fury” or something.

mistsim.2748:

they can say “every new source of fury” or something.

Maybe but coding wise I’d be curious how it worked. The greatsword has an internal cooldown of like 10seconds but thats its own supply of fury. Same thing with Moa. They might consider scaling back the refresh interval of RaO as the better option. It’s every 3 seconds now I think so maybe every 5 it would pulse?

arkealia.2713:

RaO gives fury every 3s, seems like a great boost with Remorseless.

That is a very good point. 20s so we’ll get the initial Fury + about 6 more for a total of 7. There is no doubt that that is quite powerful.

I just have two issues with it:

(1)
It has a 120s cooldown (96 traited for 20% cd reduction). While it’s extremely powerful, I’m not a huge fan of long cooldowns. Just a personal preference.

(2)
Working with the Fury every 3s to make sure you’re using a “big” hit for each moment of opportunity. This does lend itself well to using Quick Draw in Skirmishing though as it will allow you to double-dip with two Mauls before needing to swap to something like Sword + Axe for a Path of Scars.

I just prefer Entangle over RAO. Whenever I have SotF on my bar, my Survival skills always include Muddy Terrain and Entangle. Being able to immobilize your opponent is just so powerful in this game as it can give you a breather and/or allow you to land some solid blows on your opponent(s). Krytan Drakehound, Wolf, Muddy Terrain, Entangle, and Hilt Bash. That’s an enormous amount of CC which can be just as, if not more powerful, than just straight up damage.

A fight is, after all, racing their health to 0 before they get yours to 0. If you can both slow down their damage while speeding yours up … that is quite effective

@Lugh
You’re being antagonistic. I’m merely trying to have a discussion. Please realize that and check your tone conveyed by your posts

If I miss something, please realize that I’m reading and posting in between compiling code and booting up test servers at work.

if they do allow RaO to trigger Remorseless, we’ve got ourselves a frontline build. shouts/signets.

mistsim.2748:

I don’t think RaO will be refreshing Remorseless. that would be dumb because Remorseless doesn’t have a CD. I don’t think they’ll let it happen.

Why not? Warrior got 10 sec 20% damage from just using their F1!
25% is not that much yknow. 100% crit chance is NORMAL in dungeon for a warrior. (banner, fury 100% uptime and other stuffs)

Okay, I have a bit more time now … had to cut off that last post early.

@Lugh:
I’m sure your Shout build is solid and you will rock with it … but here are my personal issues with it compared to the Survival build.

Keeping Fury up is a non-issue. With 15s of Fury on pet swap (30s ICD) as well as Fury for using your heal/utilities/elite as well as Fury from 50% of greatsword hits (10s ICD) … as well as possibly from your runes … keeping up Fury on your Ranger should not be an issue. The only issue is reapplication of Fury as that is what is going to proc Remorseless to give you more Opening Strikes.

My biggest issue with using Skirmishing to get Remorseless from Fury is that it is getting it from weapon swap.

• You can get auto-crit on weapon-swap from Sigil of Intelligence. It isn’t an opening strike so won’t give 5 Vulnerability and won’t have the +25% damage … but it’s also 3 auto-crits on weapon swap. That’s 2 more than what you get from gaining Fury with Furious Grip and I’d argue that it’d more than account for not getting the +25% damage on that first crit.
• My personal opinion is that you should be weapon swapping in order to pick the best weapon for the current situation, not to try to proc something … even if you are running dual melee.

You get more control over your Fury from having 5 abilities (Heal, 3 Utilities, Elite) all with 20% cd reduction than you do from weapon swap alone … not to mention if the traits continue to work like they do now, the proc of Keen Edge is going to continue to Trigger the Fury and Cleanse effect like it currently does when you take Keen Edge and SotF with the current Trait system.

• Troll Unguent = Fury ever 20s
• Muddy Terrain = Fury every 20s
• Lightning Reflexes = Fury every 32s
• Sharpening Stone = Fury every 36s
• Entangle = Fury every 48s

On top of this, it allows you to chain those Fury applications together if you want. Even better is the fact that Entangle and Muddy Terrain will immobilize your target so you are much more likely to land that crit than against a non-CC’d target.

I feel shouts are weak because:

• Troll Unguent gives more healing than Heal As One
• Our other shouts are Sic’em, Guard, Protect Me, and Search and Rescue … which provide far less utility than our Survival (and Signet) skills … only two can even currently be argued as “good” … except if running a support role (Search & Rescue) which this build isn’t designed for … and that ability has a long cooldown.
• For condition removal, you are pigeon-holed into use Soldier runes and/or Cleansing Sigil … Cleansing Sigil again has you doing weapon swaps for a reason other than swapping to the best weapon for the current situation.
• For condition removal, you are only removing one condition per shout as opposed to 2 conditions per Survival skill … given that most condition players are smart enough to try to protect their critical conditions with other miscellaneous conditions, this is quite critical to be able to cleanse more than one at a time.

Superior Rune of Rage would be nice for this build, but I’m really excited about a GOOD use for the Superior Rune of Evasion.
It’s a good boost to Ferocity (handy) and gives another source of Fury on dodge! (plus swiftness on a 10s CD, bleh) plus the cripple to help soft CC people for Maul/PoS.

@Heimskarl Ashfiend:
Oh my gosh, you’re a genius. Rage would make the up-time on Fury even more of a non-issue … but Evasion would be ridiculously awesome.

Evasion would give you more control over when you gain that Fury (as opposed to chance-on-hit) while also giving you Swiftness and Crippling your opponent(s) which is quite useful for someone with a Greatsword who wants to stick to their target.

As long as the damage from the cripple on the dodge roll happens before Opening Strike (i.e. iOpening Strike isn’t wasted on the damage from that cripple), that would be amazing.

Hi @Sebrent,
Sorry my tone offened you, it wasnt intended.
I think survival is very strong and I think its great there are several ways to build around remoresless/make melee ranger buids.

I think that by desighn, a melee ranger uses lots of weapon swpas(unlike lets say, LB builds). Its not like i swap becuase i want condi cleanse or fury, but if I swap alot i get this awesome value.

For both our builds fury is cheap, both can mintain 100% fury uptime – about repitition maybe you got more but not by alot espically if I include RAO which procs fury like every 3 sec for 6-7 times. My build also have prema swiftness and regen yours not(you need rune of pack for the extra swiftness, so u’r rune locked ) and you’r lacking out of combat swifness(kittening for roaming) -Ask any melee ranger today how importent is this boon for your preformance(get sigil of swiftness and u’r sigil locked).

The sacrafice u’r making to get your survival synergie will be either quickdraw or taunt on F2/QZ on pet swap(both are amazing), oakslave is nice vs most builds( ya some builsd dont have even a single bleed on them) but without reggen support its very low uptime(so you need fern hound, u’r pet locked as well).

You have a lead on condi cleanse thats true but while 3 survival utilites are very good(TU,LR,Entangle) to justify your invesment u’ll go full bar of survival(MT and SS are not that good) My build will go 4 shouts(enough to mintain all the bonuses for more that 100% uptime). Even today some say HaO is better heal cus of poison(with TU u need to be clear of poison for 10 sec to get the max heal) , Protect me is great(your build does not have SoS) 48 sec cd on 6 sec imunity(with full BM pet can take it) Sicem is strange, it can do almost nothing or it can win the fight for you(vs thives/mesmers). Just think about full BM wolf brutal charge after MOC or hit bash from behind with the crit damage bonus and sicem (its can crit like 7k or even more)
My last utility will be LR or SoR.

Yeah…. It’s definately getting an ICD :P

And hell, all this is assuming solo play. Get yourself a team of 3-4 Rangers like this, all with WH, Beastmaster’s Bond and maybe some Moa’s and we take it to the next level of silliness.

@Lugh:
No worries.

I thinkittenufulating’s post highlights the difference between what we’re each doing. I don’t roam solo unless I’m just going to cap camps real quick to get my daily done. As such, the Perma-Swiftness is not enough in my mind to warrant me:

• Constantly putting my heal on cooldown for Swiftness (I did enough of this with my Mesmer with Centaur runes back in the day).
• Taking what I feel are sub-par utilities.

You are going to need to take more than the “good” shouts if you want that perma-swiftness. That means Guard is going to plague your bar or you’re going to need to take Warhorn.

Your description of Sic’em is why I’m not a fan of it. It is like Rage As One … it either does something or it is negated and useless. Their cooldowns make this even worse in my mind.

While a Beastmaster Pet is more likely to take that damage, I don’t want to likely cripple my pet.

Additionally, I’ve found that good opponents know how to get away from those “big” abilities that have long cooldowns. For example, if I pop Rage As One against a good Thief, they are going to play “rope-a-dope” with me for those 20s and then fight me knowing that my elite is on a long cooldown. Same with anyone with stealth and/or more mobility or some terrain to take advantage of … or a nice number of active defenses (block/evade/distortion/immunity/etc.).

That’s a good point about poison and Troll Unguent. However, with more condition cleanses and Troll Unguent being a 2 cleanse itself, I think it is less of an issue for the Survival build than it is for the Skirmishing Shout build. Your regeneration up-time is going to be good, but it can suffer from that same poison … and most classes that have poison are covering it with several other conditions (look at Ranger, Engineer, and Necromancer for great examples).

I think Muddy Terrain is an excellent ability. It can help you get the kill or give you breathing room. It’s also on a darn good low cooldown which allows you to constantly pressure with it (on top of Fury and cleansing).

I often like to take Quickening Zephyr and Lightning Reflexees with the Survival Cleanse simply because it gives me two utilities that are both a stunbreak and cleanse. This can be quite important when dealing with some classes that can both stun you and immobilize you in a very small window (or simultaneously). SoR can do this, but it requires your pet for the condition cleanse. It should be alive and near you (especially since melee), but it’s possible that it won’t be. Those times suck.

@Cufufalating:
I only take Moas when I’m being silly. They need some improvement before I’m likely to change my mind on this. I don’t want to wait for that long cast time with its long cooldown. I’d rather have my canines with their 2 KDs, 2 Cripples, 1 Fear, and 1 Immobilize. Those are so useful it isn’t even funny … plus they have more Power than Moas so hit harder.

A Hybrid GS/SB version with traps could also work nice. These are incomplete builds without the new traits. The traits would be; Beastmaster’s Bond, MoC, Remorseless
Sharpened Edges, Trappers Expertise, Quick Draw, Expertise Training, Oakheart Salve, Empathic Bond.
sPvP version
WvW Version
I chose the Leeching + Intelligence sigils on the GS because the leeching needs to be used 1st before the Intelligence takes effect, therefore, your Opening Strike (after weapon swap) will use that, dealing an extra 1k damage and healing you the same and then the Intelligence Sigil will make the next 3 attacks crit, giving you a guaranteed 4 crits in-a-row combo.

The other thing I am excited about with Quick Draw is we can use it on Swoop and make 2200 range very quickly.

@Sebrent

I know. I am certainly not saying Moas are great, but what I am getting at is that so far you are assuming / planning around you being the only source of fury. I’m just pointing out that you could quite easily be in a group where you are giving eachother fury constantly and that this takes this trait from being really good to genuinely OP.

@Cufufalating:
I understand

Some of us have been Theorycrafting during our late night duels, and we got onto the idea of several Rangers with Healing Spring (don’t know its type yet) and Horns. That’s several blast finishers, group regen, and group condition cleanse.

Runes of the Pack on several Rangers could be ridiculous.

What would be more ridiculous is a Remorseless Ranger paired with a Staff Mesmer. Let me direct you to Winds of Chaos:

• https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Winds_of_Chaos

That is the auto-attack on a staff which is now going to bounce an extra time given Illusionary Elasticity becoming base. That is the same attack that Mesmer Staff clones use. When it hits an ally, it gives them Might or Fury (so a 50% chance on Fury). With multiple staff clones a Ranger could be proccing Remorseless like a madman.

Even better, given the extra bounce and the fact that the Ranger will be in melee while the Mesmer can be up to 1,200 away, the Winds of Chaos will hit (target-ranger-target) for extra damage on the target and Might/Fury on the Ranger. With no ICD on Remorseless, this could be insanely good.

I’m waiting to see if Protective Ward stays the way it currently is worded … if it does, you can bet I’m going to try to incorporate that in just about every build I have. Protection on you + Weakness on nearby foes with that up-time would just be too darn good to pass up on.

@Sebrent
Regarding swiftness -In comabt i have call of the wild with 15 sec on pet swpa, that alot can reach 100% swiftnessuptime, i also got swiftness on weapon swap, 4 shouts of 10 sec swiftness each and RaO for extra 20 sec thats 2 like 300% swiftnessuptime.
Out of comabt – I can use heal and sicem or just swap sic;em with gurd until i c somthingi want to kill, very easy to prem swiftness.

Regarding Elite – Good playes also play around Entangle like it doesnt exist, lots of builds got blink abilities AOE damage that destroy vines or immob immunity(like warriors) RAO is getting 24 sec discount on CD, thats alot.

QZ like Protect me is also a big uility that can be played around.

Regarding heal, Ya ofc my 100% regen up time will be under poison(I’ll lose 40 hp per sekittenil It removed) TU under poison(280 lose of hp until it removed) Dont forget that my build as well havnt neglete condi removal(4 on shouts, 2 on wapon swap and one SoR if realy needed). Like u saied, cus of melee pet will be near me most of time, with prema regen and full BM he can take he damage and in case its in troube or not around me. i got pet swap on 15 sec.

Btw my pet laso have prema swiftness, and when/if he doesnt i got 30% natural speed so even if my pet got crippled once or twice, most of the time it will be much faster.

@LughLongArm.5460:
My issue with that is that you will be entering fights with your heal and some utilities already on cooldown because you wanted 100% up-time on swiftness and the weapon swap and pet swap only work in combat.

Speaking from experience having done this with just my heal on my Mesmer with Centaur Runes … this can be a pain in your back-side.

I still assert that those shouts are lackluster and don’t make up for the Regeneration they are giving you. Signets and Survival are still our best utilities. Now, if our shouts get some changes … you can bet I’ll be revisiting this.

I imagine that if you were facing a Mesmer like mine that you’d be a sad camper because I take pride in stripping boons from players so that would leave you with the lackluster shouts.

While a good player can negate Entangle, it is on a drastically shorter cooldown. Traited, entangle is a 48s cooldown while traited RAO is a 96s cooldown. That’s two entangles for every RAO.

Additionally, it’s not just entangle that your opponent is having to counter. They have to deal with:

• Drakehound KD
• Drakehound Immob
• Wolf KD
• Wolf Fear
• Muddy Terrain
• Hilt Bash

All of that on top of Entangle.

Anyone else here bring enough stunbreaks and condition clears for all that? Very few do. Even less when you factor in cripple from the pets, Vulnerability from Maul, and possibly other conditions based on what you want to pair with your Greatsword in this build.

Additionally, a build that can deal with all of that CC is a build that is likely suffering damage-wise in other locations. This is where your added survivability from Wilderness Survival kicks in even more.

I think the swiftness on pet is nearly negligible when you have beastmastery. If you check the wiki you’ll see that Agility Training (the current +30% pet movespeed) does not stack with other movespeed bonuses … so your pet is only gaining +3% movespeed from swiftness. It’s something but not much … and they don’t negate cripple/chill/immobilize.

@Sebrent.3625
" Agility Training (the current +30% pet movespeed) does not stack with other
movespeed bonuses … so your pet is only gaining +3% movespeed from swiftness. It’s something but not much "
Ya OFC i kbow they doesnt stack i compared it your build and if u dont take BM trait line you dont have Agility Training, so my pet is still 33% faster…

My build also have thouse(and on shorter CD)
Drakehound KD
Drakehound Immob
Wolf KD
Wolf Fear
Hilt Bash
+ taunt on F2 every 15, it may be a game changer we’ll have to wait and c.
Some builds like warriors GS just wlak ou of immob, you can throw on them Muddy terrain, Drakehound Immob still the same, if they have stability no KD either. Gurdains with block is inda the same, entangke will work but the other CC wont and than blink out with sword, thief will stealth and get the hell out or shadow step, mesmer jump away, and so on and so on(and also there is a good chance to hit in the firstplace).
Both elits got ups and downs, now that RAO synersyse with remorsless its a super buff.
And becuse u have Sicem, thives cant abuse your like you described.

Even if I’ll get cought with 10 sec CD on heal and with gurd instad of Sic’em(worst case scanrio) I still be Ok, to be 10 sec without a heal is nothing when u have regen on u and with protect me is less than nothong, and gurd is a condi remove every 10 sec- not good but not useless(better than evasive purity^^).