Guild Wars 2

anduriell.6280:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Actually, I meant Ventari/Glint Herald. Herald cannot maintain the boons from Glint and heal at the same time, Druid can. Not as much Might, but everything else as well as far superior healing.

Also, their DPS will drop significantly when maintaining those boons, because they will not be able to spam weapon skills.

Still, i think Druid will not be needed because up to the last update although it gets much better (thank Irenio) still stays with the only heal no other kind of support theme.
Ranger does not offer much support in boons: Spotter and Frost Spirit (after last change with 95% damage mitigation) being all of them. The other spirits have too many conditions to apply the very short passive to be reliable, you will see.
In the raid in BWE3 I didn’t see anything that could make the Druid a must class, the players that needed that much healing are the ones that keep dying most of the time (aka L2P). Other classes can not heal as fast as the druid but they can heal fast enough. And bring more support (boons and such) and DPS to the team.

This is my opinion with the actual state of the core ranger, if Irenio is able to balance the class to be in line with the rest druid could be awesome.

Why do people persist in thinking Ranger/Druid is not good at supporting through boons?
Why do people persist in thinking Ranger/Druid is not good at supporting through unique abilities?
Are you kidding me?
Look at this build. It’s miles better than Herald and Ventari.

15% additional direct damage
15% additional condition damge
30 burn ticks every 8s
10% damage 6/16s
10% damage 75% of the time 60/80s
+7.5% crit chance
Perma Swiftness, Fury, Regeneration and 11-14 might. 50% Vigor. Perma Protection if you want it, drop GoEmp for Stone Spirit.
Then the healing on top. Plus you can contribute decent damage with sword during burn phases.

How will that not be wanted? It will be outright mandatory because of the damage boosts and healing alone.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

anduriell.6280:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Actually, I meant Ventari/Glint Herald. Herald cannot maintain the boons from Glint and heal at the same time, Druid can. Not as much Might, but everything else as well as far superior healing.

Also, their DPS will drop significantly when maintaining those boons, because they will not be able to spam weapon skills.

Still, i think Druid will not be needed because up to the last update although it gets much better (thank Irenio) still stays with the only heal no other kind of support theme.
Ranger does not offer much support in boons: Spotter and Frost Spirit (after last change with 95% damage mitigation) being all of them. The other spirits have too many conditions to apply the very short passive to be reliable, you will see.
In the raid in BWE3 I didn’t see anything that could make the Druid a must class, the players that needed that much healing are the ones that keep dying most of the time (aka L2P). Other classes can not heal as fast as the druid but they can heal fast enough. And bring more support (boons and such) and DPS to the team.

This is my opinion with the actual state of the core ranger, if Irenio is able to balance the class to be in line with the rest druid could be awesome.

Why do people persist in thinking Ranger/Druid is not good at supporting through boons?
Why do people persist in thinking Ranger/Druid is not good at supporting through unique abilities?
Are you kidding me?
Look at this build. It’s miles better than Herald and Ventari.

15% additional direct damage
15% additional condition damge
30 burn ticks every 8s
10% damage 6/16s
10% damage 75% of the time 60/80s
+7.5% crit chance
Perma Swiftness, Fury, Regeneration and 11-14 might. 50% Vigor. Perma Protection if you want it, drop GoEmp for Stone Spirit.
Then the healing on top. Plus you can contribute decent damage with sword during burn phases.

How will that not be wanted? It will be outright mandatory because of the damage boosts and healing alone.

That build wouldn’t really work for 5 mans, but the premise isn’t off as there is a zerker build I put together keeps all the support with minimal dps loss. Also the boons you listed really don’t matter much as other classes generate them better with minimal loss in dps as well. Also the fact you don’t want pets with CC.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Why do people persist in thinking Ranger/Druid is not good at supporting through boons?
Why do people persist in thinking Ranger/Druid is not good at supporting through unique abilities?
Are you kidding me?
Look at this build. It’s miles better than Herald and Ventari.

15% additional direct damage
15% additional condition damge
30 burn ticks every 8s
10% damage 6/16s
10% damage 75% of the time 60/80s
+7.5% crit chance
Perma Swiftness, Fury, Regeneration and 11-14 might. 50% Vigor. Perma Protection if you want it, drop GoEmp for Stone Spirit.
Then the healing on top. Plus you can contribute decent damage with sword during burn phases.

How will that not be wanted? It will be outright mandatory because of the damage boosts and healing alone.

No, not kidding. This is a bit of off topic but your numbers are too optimistic:

1. no one uses sword. You know why.
2. Ranger does very little DPS compared to other classes. +15% damage will not fix that.
3. To access to the boons from the Warhorn you have to drop the healings from the staff for 10 seconds. You could go to CAF after WH, but you are maybe wasting your burst healing just to keep the might, fury and regen.
4. Spirits only give 3 secs effects every 8-10 seconds. Only good one is frost.
5. Elite spirit has very small radius. Not useful in raid where no one is stacking in one corner.
6. Spirits passive is only 5 players not 10.
7. with 15K hp and 2.1K armor you are going to struggle to keep yourself alive in melee.

And hundreds more issues that already have being commented by other users here in the forums.

I see what you want to accomplish there, i want also the community to change how they view the ranger. But for that to happen is not enough with hopeful thoughts, we need facts. And for that core ranger has to be fixed and reworked. Then Druid will have the chance to become awesome.

Kitty.1502:

…Also the fact you don’t want pets with CC.

The Smokescale does too much damage to not take, it having a 1s KD on a 20s CD is hardly a negative.

The whole point of a build like this is other classes do not need to trait for support, you just need some more might, which is incidental, and everyone else can trait for DPS.

@anduriell
You don’t get it. Let me address your dot points.

• 1. Sword doesn’t need to be used, except for the burn phases, like I stated where you want maximum DPS.
• 2. 15% direct and condi damage for 5 DPS characters will be the same damage than the ranger could put out without that buff. So, not only is it totally compensating for Ranger doing the healing, but you still have a pet and 33% of the time you can DPS.
• 3. To access the WH, you would swap to it immediately before going into CAF, use the #5 skill, swap to CAF and spam heals, then drop back out, use #5 again and then swap back to staff, its ONE second out of your healing rotation to maintain those boons.
• 4. Take a look at spirit effects again please. Sun Spirit will contribute half a million damage to a buffed party over the duration of a vale guardian fight.
• 5. It’s the most useful of the elites we have for this build. The radius should get fixed.
• 6. What’s your point? So is everything else. Which is why you would use two in a raid.
• 7. No, you won’t. You’ll have insane amounts of sustain due to Live Vicariously and really living with sword is a l2p issue. Especially for short duration burns like VG, etc.

Those are the facts.

Tragic Positive.9356:

You are strongly contradicting yourself.
I won’t drag this further because it wouldn’t lead anywhere. You like to argue, not to search for solutions.

No, i’m not. I was just asking questions. Questions, which you obviously can’t or don’t want to answer …

Guys and gals, you can sugar coat ranger all you want and make number graphs, but there are reasons why ranger is behind other profession at the meta stage in every area of the game. The devs know it too. Irenio acknowledged it on the twitchcon stream. Yes, you can use ranger, but it’s not a meta contender sorry…

Swagger.1459:

Guys and gals, you can sugar coat ranger all you want and make number graphs, but there are reasons why ranger is behind other profession at the meta stage in every area of the game. The devs know it too. Irenio acknowledged it on the twitchcon stream. Yes, you can use ranger, but it’s not a meta contender sorry…

Nobody is sugar coating anything. Merely stating fact. Druid will be meta. We don’t even know yet what the meta will be, nor will we for weeks after release. I concede that Ranger will most likely not be PvP meta, but it will have a good place in Raids and WvW.

Swagger.1459:

Guys and gals, you can sugar coat ranger all you want and make number graphs, but there are reasons why ranger is behind other profession at the meta stage in every area of the game. The devs know it too. Irenio acknowledged it on the twitchcon stream. Yes, you can use ranger, but it’s not a meta contender sorry…

Irenio was talking in past tense , so at current yes ranger isn’t a contender for meta teams but that is what irenio is getting to “bringing the Ranger into line with other classes through the use of druid and improving CORE Ranger skills/Co-eds and mechanics”

its not a matter if ranger is not meta , after HoT’s release its a matter of when people will Relise ranger/druid could be meta if they allow it.

right now its bias and old habbits that are keeping ranger out of the meta , not its builds or uses because we already know they will provide more than enough in every field damage/control/support and there should be no reason to exclude this class from any Meta form be it pvp,pve,pvx,wvw,raids or even dungeons.

people need to stop burying thier heads like a ostrich and face the Reality that Ranger will be Meta somehow , somewhere its only a matter of time.

Swagger.1459:

Just wonder how many “oops so sorry” moments druids will be faced with when CA form is on its 10 second cool down and staff skills just won’t be up to the task

That’s why you won’t do raids with pugs but Organized people on TS.

anduriell.6280:

1. no one uses sword. You know why.

Would have to say that is a very broad statement. Yes, the sword has its flaws, but that doesn’t mean that all Rangers don’t use it. Been using sword for 2 years, and that is because I actually like the rooting on the sword since I am weird like that, only thing that I would want as a change is a faster cast time on Hornet Sting at this point due to its excessively long cast time for an evade skill…

Tragic Positive.9356:

Swagger.1459:

Just wonder how many “oops so sorry” moments druids will be faced with when CA form is on its 10 second cool down and staff skills just won’t be up to the task

That’s why you won’t do raids with pugs but Organized people on TS.

I just saw a point fly over your head

Swagger.1459:

Tragic Positive.9356:

Swagger.1459:

Just wonder how many “oops so sorry” moments druids will be faced with when CA form is on its 10 second cool down and staff skills just won’t be up to the task

That’s why you won’t do raids with pugs but Organized people on TS.

I just saw a point fly over your head

i read , yada yada team blames healer (like a old MMO) forgeting to activly defend themselfs while fighting or Trading for more Glass/less defences Because of " healers" .

forgetting GW2 is a game of Active combat regardless of dps/tanks/healers .

blaming that " healer" induces hatred against Rangers or easier to point fingers rather than deal with the issue at hand and that is They Failed to survive.

Ya im sure we Very Experienced mmo players get the hint.

and again to avoid all that Pointless Lame finger pointing , i’ll be doing raids with the guild.

Kitty.1502:

Archon.6480:

We’ll just have to wait and see. They are reverting some of the changes to WHaO, so we should be able to self stack might on any of our pets to 25 stacks when we want to burst. I know it doesn’t seem like much, but most of our pets can hit for 6-10K with that much might and a little help from traits and such. That’s the same as a Mesmer shatter and we might have a higher up time on those kind of attacks…

really never understand why people like relying on a mechanic that barely hits >.>

Never said I like it. It’s just how it is. Part of being a Ranger.

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

Swagger.1459:

Tragic Positive.9356:

Swagger.1459:

Just wonder how many “oops so sorry” moments druids will be faced with when CA form is on its 10 second cool down and staff skills just won’t be up to the task

That’s why you won’t do raids with pugs but Organized people on TS.

I just saw a point fly over your head

i read , yada yada team blames healer (like a old MMO) forgeting to activly defend themselfs while fighting or Trading for more Glass/less defences Because of " healers" .

forgetting GW2 is a game of Active combat regardless of dps/tanks/healers .

blaming that " healer" induces hatred against Rangers or easier to point fingers rather than deal with the issue at hand and that is They Failed to survive.

Ya im sure we Very Experienced mmo players get the hint.

and again to avoid all that Pointless Lame finger pointing , i’ll be doing raids with the guild.

I said while ca is on cool down… Not all the other yada stuff you are talking about.

There it flies again!

I thought the only group to beat the Raid had two Druids and a bunch of engineers?

No problem with being cynical.

There’s a reason why I have a geared 80 of every class, and that will extend to Revenants on HoT launch. There’s no problem with being excited by other things and not by the current class you main.

Besides, its Q3/Q4 videogame season anyhow, so you don’t even have to stick with GW2 if you aren’t feeling it anymore.

Personally, and no disrespect to Irenio because his involvement in the Ranger class has been the highpoint of ranger development so far, but the classes Robert Gee was lead on (Reaper, Chrono) are beautiful, amazing, well designed, well balanced, highly effective and strong classes. Between those 2 and the Revenant, it’s hard to hold other classes up to their design in my opinion.

If you aren’t having fun, you aren’t gaming the right way

jcbroe.4329:

…(Reaper, Chrono) are beautiful, amazing, well designed, well balanced, highly effective and strong classes…

If you aren’t having fun, you aren’t gaming the right way

Scrapper is like that too, though.

Agree on the 2nd point, which is why meta should not matter to vast majority of players, yet it does for some reason.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

jcbroe.4329:

…(Reaper, Chrono) are beautiful, amazing, well designed, well balanced, highly effective and strong classes…

If you aren’t having fun, you aren’t gaming the right way

Scrapper is like that too, though.

Agree on the 2nd point, which is why meta should not matter to vast majority of players, yet it does for some reason.

You’re a GW1 vet, you remember when metagame was just that; an observation of commonly found builds? And how builds existed outside of those meta builds that were better than the given meta builds because the meta builds were made to counter the meta, and better team comps than the meta team comp existed as well.

I guess the players are more likely to evolve the metagame themselves in a game like GW1 with hundreds of skills per profession though. Not to mention mechanics (Expertise, Mysticism, ahhh, the list goes on).

Still, it is pretty lacking in the fun department to be given a whole new traitline and be able to immediately determine your own personal ranking of best in slot trait options per different build without even logging in to the game.

jcbroe.4329:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

jcbroe.4329:

…(Reaper, Chrono) are beautiful, amazing, well designed, well balanced, highly effective and strong classes…

If you aren’t having fun, you aren’t gaming the right way

Scrapper is like that too, though.

Agree on the 2nd point, which is why meta should not matter to vast majority of players, yet it does for some reason.

You’re a GW1 vet, you remember when metagame was just that; an observation of commonly found builds? And how builds existed outside of those meta builds that were better than the given meta builds because the meta builds were made to counter the meta, and better team comps than the meta team comp existed as well.

I guess the players are more likely to evolve the metagame themselves in a game like GW1 with hundreds of skills per profession though. Not to mention mechanics (Expertise, Mysticism, ahhh, the list goes on).

Still, it is pretty lacking in the fun department to be given a whole new traitline and be able to immediately determine your own personal ranking of best in slot trait options per different build without even logging in to the game.

Totally agree. Balance changes made things different all the time too, so the Meta changed constantly based on the FotM. Since team builds for meta were likely cheesy, counters appeared for them and then after a while, both fell out of favour. That was a pretty good thing, imo, because it added flavour and variety to the game. Some people hated it though. One thing that stands out for me though, was that anytime I wanted to play CripShot, I could find a spot. Balanced was always Meta because it was balanced.

Your last point is true and it sucks. That is the problem with trait system and each weapon having set skills. The issue I see here is that they did that to make the game easier to balance, but they never achieve balance because they never change things (nerf) that are totally dominating for years and buff those things that are struggling. So, its pretty much the total opposite of what they were intending (or told us) to do.

The meta is totally stale in GW2, things need to be balanced and changed a lot more often so that you don’t end up with the same builds constantly being used. Hopefully they can change things up with leagues.

Another reason why all skills should be split PvP and PvE too. You can change them for balance all the time and not affect the other game modes too much.

Everyone keeps talking about meta. Have you personally experienced that you aren’t allowed to play your ranger due to the so called “meta” in whatever game format that may be? If that’s the case, you play with the wrong people. Simple as that.

Having issues with pugs? Then don’t do pugs. Find a kitten guild and play with friends. Really, this whole “meta” discussion is a joke.

I feel your pain when the dps guys die and blame it on the healer, yelling, cursing and kicking left and right. Rather than a straight heal, how about small heal and a percentage of damage deal?

That will shut the kitten up for their incompetence.

OGDeadHead.8326:

Everyone keeps talking about meta. Have you personally experienced that you aren’t allowed to play your ranger due to the so called “meta” in whatever game format that may be? If that’s the case, you play with the wrong people. Simple as that.

Having issues with pugs? Then don’t do pugs. Find a kitten guild and play with friends. Really, this whole “meta” discussion is a joke.

A flock of points flew over your head

I think I may need to make that spotter build to help you guys and gals after all…

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

jcbroe.4329:

…(Reaper, Chrono) are beautiful, amazing, well designed, well balanced, highly effective and strong classes…

If you aren’t having fun, you aren’t gaming the right way

Scrapper is like that too, though.

Agree on the 2nd point, which is why meta should not matter to vast majority of players, yet it does for some reason.

A few years ago I thought that Meta=efficiency.
GW2 taught me it’s face-rolling. Not efficiency.

Why people follow it so blindly? “Because others are doing it too!”
Something like the independent research that confirmed that 9 out of 10 people blindly believe random independent researches.

Swagger.1459:

OGDeadHead.8326:

Everyone keeps talking about meta. Have you personally experienced that you aren’t allowed to play your ranger due to the so called “meta” in whatever game format that may be? If that’s the case, you play with the wrong people. Simple as that.

Having issues with pugs? Then don’t do pugs. Find a kitten guild and play with friends. Really, this whole “meta” discussion is a joke.

A flock of points flew over your head

I think I may need to make that spotter build to help you guys and gals after all…

Not really. My comment was more about general meta talk than related to this specific topic. I’m just a bit fed up about reading about “meta” all the time, and that rangers doesn’t have a spot in the “current meta”.

OGDeadHead.8326:

Everyone keeps talking about meta. Have you personally experienced that you aren’t allowed to play your ranger due to the so called “meta” in whatever game format that may be? If that’s the case, you play with the wrong people. Simple as that.

Having issues with pugs? Then don’t do pugs. Find a kitten guild and play with friends. Really, this whole “meta” discussion is a joke.

Could not have put it better myself.

So, I am thinking I would like to make a video, if 9 other Rangers are keen on it.

How about we do an all Ranger raid? I’ve done all Ranger dungeons before and it was the most fun I’ve had playing the game. I see no reason why we couldn’t, we have everything needed.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

jcbroe.4329:

…(Reaper, Chrono) are beautiful, amazing, well designed, well balanced, highly effective and strong classes…

If you aren’t having fun, you aren’t gaming the right way

Scrapper is like that too, though.

Agree on the 2nd point, which is why meta should not matter to vast majority of players, yet it does for some reason.

A few years ago I thought that Meta=efficiency.
GW2 taught me it’s face-rolling. Not efficiency.

Why people follow it so blindly? “Because others are doing it too!”
Something like the independent research that confirmed that 9 out of 10 people blindly believe random independent researches.

Basic herd mentality, eh?

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

anduriell.6280:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Look at this build. It’s miles better than Herald and Ventari.

wow, what kind of person would like that game style?

kitten.8746:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

anduriell.6280:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Look at this build. It’s miles better than Herald and Ventari.

wow, what kind of person would like that game style?

I’m not sure how to take your post, but I definitely would enjoy it.

Use FS, SS and GoEmp on CD, DPS the boss with Staff and build AF, swap to S/WH and use #5 followed by #4, enter CAF, heal everyone up and buff their damage more with GotL, drop out of CAF, use WH #5 again, swap back to staff, Quickdraw Astral Wisp, start again. Use S/WH for burn phases. As a basic rotation…

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

OGDeadHead.8326:

Everyone keeps talking about meta. Have you personally experienced that you aren’t allowed to play your ranger due to the so called “meta” in whatever game format that may be? If that’s the case, you play with the wrong people. Simple as that.

Having issues with pugs? Then don’t do pugs. Find a kitten guild and play with friends. Really, this whole “meta” discussion is a joke.

Could not have put it better myself.

So, I am thinking I would like to make a video, if 9 other Rangers are keen on it.

How about we do an all Ranger raid? I’ve done all Ranger dungeons before and it was the most fun I’ve had playing the game. I see no reason why we couldn’t, we have everything needed.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

jcbroe.4329:

…(Reaper, Chrono) are beautiful, amazing, well designed, well balanced, highly effective and strong classes…

If you aren’t having fun, you aren’t gaming the right way

Scrapper is like that too, though.

Agree on the 2nd point, which is why meta should not matter to vast majority of players, yet it does for some reason.

A few years ago I thought that Meta=efficiency.
GW2 taught me it’s face-rolling. Not efficiency.

Why people follow it so blindly? “Because others are doing it too!”
Something like the independent research that confirmed that 9 out of 10 people blindly believe random independent researches.

Basic herd mentality, eh?

Yep pretty much.

Also, if you find me in-game, definitely count me in for an All-Ranger Raid. I’m definitely going for it!
(/whisper, don’t tell anyone, but Sinister Ranger has higher DPS than an Engineer. Tested. But don’t tell anyone because we’ll get nerfed v.v’)

Tragic Positive.9356:

…Also, if you find me in-game, definitely count me in for an All-Ranger Raid. I’m definitely going for it!
(/whisper, don’t tell anyone, but Sinister Ranger has higher DPS than an Engineer. Tested. But don’t tell anyone because we’ll get nerfed v.v’)

When I get home in about 4 weeks, I’ll post again on the forums and we can organize something, you guys could always do it sooner

Was that tested on a moving target? Engineer would have the advantage there I would think.