In TPvP you can contest points quite easily on a thief, But the ability to avoid dying (thus having to Res and come back) is incredibly powerful.
As for Argan, you play a D/P thief (one of the easiest specs in the game), and you’ve played one since September, I’ve played a Ranger, and I played a thief afterward..
So I know the advantage of stealth quite easily.
and I stand by what I said, the ability to reset a fight is incredibly powerful, to do it over and over again is Overpowered.
You can’t contest defended points, but i do agree avoiding the respawn timer and the whole giving the enemy team points for your death -is- a very powerful thing.
As someone who also plays a thief extensively I’m going to have to say yeah, we really are op. Have a friend run in first, mess around and get one focus opponent in the group to 70% pop in finish him in secs (he used cooldowns/endurance) then stealth finisher. You guys keep talking as if you never have help and are running rambo.
In TPvP you can contest points quite easily on a thief, But the ability to avoid dying (thus having to Res and come back) is incredibly powerful.
As for Argan, you play a D/P thief (one of the easiest specs in the game), and you’ve played one since September, I’ve played a Ranger, and I played a thief afterward..
So I know the advantage of stealth quite easily.
and I stand by what I said, the ability to reset a fight is incredibly powerful, to do it over and over again is Overpowered.
Are you serious? The build I developed was completely original to me- I might have drawn inspiration from a few other places, but I made the build in and of itself all by myself. What do you play? The recycled 10/30/30/0/0 Backstab build that thousands of other thieves play?
My build is based on a great deal of development, development, development. I have spent months trying out build after build, adapting slowly but steadily. I have tested out hundreds of builds, and the build the D/P build that I have relies on heavy mitigation, evasion, and tactics. Have you even tried out the build? Frankly, coming from somebody who is going to throw around words like “OP easymode lol” to describe builds that I’m guessing he/she has no clue about in the first place, I’m disturbed. Either way, I have little desire to discuss the state of the thief with somebody who is going to suddenly swap topics to something that is irrelevant to the discussion, and is aimed as more of a trolling attempt than an attempt at rational conversation.
In TPvP you can contest points quite easily on a thief, But the ability to avoid dying (thus having to Res and come back) is incredibly powerful.
As for Argan, you play a D/P thief (one of the easiest specs in the game), and you’ve played one since September, I’ve played a Ranger, and I played a thief afterward..
So I know the advantage of stealth quite easily.
and I stand by what I said, the ability to reset a fight is incredibly powerful, to do it over and over again is Overpowered.
You can’t contest defended points, but i do agree avoiding the respawn timer and the whole giving the enemy team points for your death -is- a very powerful thing.
It isn’t so much contesting Defended points..You can harass defended points (and sometimes kill the person on it, but if its more then 1, yea probably won’t take it) however the ability not to die while doing this is incredibly powerful, Its the difference between making a 1v1 fight a 1vs2 fight.. Cause if you don’t kill that Thief who’s attacking you, and someone else comes..you’re toast…where if you fought another class and beat him, he has to come back (and of course the not giving points thing)
I can’t tell you how many times I’ve fought people in 1v1’s, killed them and and had someone show up and the end, with me ending up winning that fight as well cause it was a 1v1..
Nor can I tell you how many times I’ve fought a thief, gotten him low, only to have him vanish out of the fight, have someone else show up, and while i’m fighting him, that thief appear again and instantly gib me with huge burst.
That is the difference stealth makes in combat..
In TPvP you can contest points quite easily on a thief, But the ability to avoid dying (thus having to Res and come back) is incredibly powerful.
As for Argan, you play a D/P thief (one of the easiest specs in the game), and you’ve played one since September, I’ve played a Ranger, and I played a thief afterward..
So I know the advantage of stealth quite easily.
and I stand by what I said, the ability to reset a fight is incredibly powerful, to do it over and over again is Overpowered.
Are you serious? The build I developed was completely original to me- I might have drawn inspiration from a few other places, but I made the build in and of itself all by myself. What do you play? The recycled 10/30/30/0/0 Backstab build that thousands of other thieves play?
My build is based on a great deal of development, development, development. I have spent months trying out build after build, adapting slowly but steadily. I have tested out hundreds of builds, and the build the D/P build that I have relies on heavy mitigation, evasion, and tactics. Have you even tried out the build? Frankly, coming from somebody who is going to throw around words like “OP easymode lol” to describe builds that I’m guessing he/she has no clue about in the first place, I’m disturbed. Either way, I have little desire to discuss the state of the thief with somebody who is going to suddenly swap topics to something that is irrelevant to the discussion, and is aimed as more of a trolling attempt than an attempt at rational conversation.
10/0/30/30/0
How close am I?
Nm, I saw the little section at the bottom, I was somewhat close, You went for more Init in the last line instead of Mug
I should probably clear it up since you took offense to me calling D/P easiest specs in the game to play…Its not so much the Talent Tree for the spec (as there are multiple ways you can take D/P) but the ability to basically chain stealth over and over again all day long.
PS. I don’t play backstab build, I play the other recycled thief builds, S/D and P/D..Though I’ve play D/P with S/D setup
Also from your build Thread, I’m going to have to go with the other guy, Why would you not take Condition Removal on Stealth for a build that relies heavily on Stealth?
That seems like a no brainer to me.
Also why Assassins Reward over Shadow Rejuv, I’ve used both and AR heals no where near SR
(edited by Xsorus.2507)
As someone who also plays a thief extensively I’m going to have to say yeah, we really are op. Have a friend run in first, mess around and get one focus opponent in the group to 70% pop in finish him in secs (he used cooldowns/endurance) then stealth finisher. You guys keep talking as if you never have help and are running rambo.
They’re not OP, and yes I do run solo on my thief, as I do on all my roamers. I’m a scout, that’s what we do. I spec for survival and sustain on all of my roaming builds.
The reason most people complain that thief is op is because
1. They know nothing about the class, and therefore can’t counter it. “That thief went stealth, I guess I’ll just stand here and wait for him to attack me, I heard fear takes them out of stealth, I’ll try that”
2. their spec isn’t for dueling, and 99.99% of the time the thief is running a solo spec. You expect to kill a duelist thief with your support build? Shouldn’t have to explain this one to so many people, but i still do…. ALLLLLLL the time.
3. Complainers spec sucks, and they never do small combat fighting, but they think that zerging has made them inherit some form of skill for small engagements. Zerg tactics is very very different than solo or small combat tactics and movement. They require different mindsets, builds, and playstyles.
The reason bad thieves think they are good, and talk about it on the forum:
1. They kill underleveled’s and classes/specs that are not designed for solo combat. This leads to..
2. They are full of themselves. They think that because they killed a support necro that had their back to the thief, it means they must be good. Free kills are just that, free. You didn’t earn the kill, you took advantage of them being someplace they shouldn’t have been. I do it as well, but I wouldn’t brag about it.
3. They play wvw only, and have never engaged good players in spvp or small combat. When they have run into good players in wvw small combat, they run away (see this all the time) I engage thief, thief uses his standard combo, I counter it… then he has no idea what to do and runs away.
4. Many people know little to nothing about thief mechanics, and as a result… get their butt kicked by them because of their lack of knowledge on the class. Same goes for mesmer, and for me right now… GS ranger. I get thief spec’s attacking me constantly where I read their spec immediately and realize they have no chance of killing my spec… but are accustomed to thinking rangers are free kills, so they engage me anyways and die for it.
Sometimes I wonder if they even tell their friends, or if they are just too embarrassed that they got killed by a ranger.
(edited by WhiteAndMilky.2514)
How do I explain this…..
When you consider the power of classes, you have to consider where that classes “skill ceiling” ends. For example in Starcraft 2, no player can spread marines like Marine King, and win where others would not.
Applying this to GW2, and using a player like Xsorus. He reached the ceiling on the Ranger, a class that unfortunately has a lower ceiling than it should, so that when he finally played the Theif, he got the feeling it was overpowered because the skill ceiling is much higher.
This doesn’t make the Thief overpowered, nor the Ranger underpowered. It does however point out a situation where the Ranger needs a few things fixed and/or changed to increase its skill ceiling.
This could be as simple as adding, or fixing a Rangers evades, making the Rangers evading ability comparable to a Thieves stealthing ability.
How do I explain this…..
When you consider the power of classes, you have to consider where that classes “skill ceiling” ends. For example in Starcraft 2, no player can spread marines like Marine King, and win where others would not.
Applying this to GW2, and using a player like Xsorus. He reached the ceiling on the Ranger, a class that unfortunately has a lower ceiling than it should, so that when he finally played the Theif, he got the feeling it was overpowered because the skill ceiling is much higher.
This doesn’t make the Thief overpowered, nor the Ranger underpowered. It does however point out a situation where the Ranger needs a few things fixed and/or changed to increase its skill ceiling.
This could be as simple as adding, or fixing a Rangers evades, making the Rangers evading ability comparable to a Thieves stealthing ability.
I’ve got maybe 100 hours on my thief…and I’m no where near as good as I am on my Ranger.. but I can still get more kills and get away more often on my thief any day of the week.
I’ve always viewed the ability to leave fights in the middle of combat as incredibly powerful, I’ve posted multiple times in other games like SWTOR and Rift about this issue.
And in those games, It was incredibly powerful..in GW2 though…. its Absurd…
Really no way to describe it…
(stuff)
What spec’s of warrior and guardian are you attempting?
On my guardians I have a full bunker build, and an aggressive offensive support guardian. I never play the bunker anymore (it’s SO boring)
On my warriors I play
- a full tank shout heal death from above (kind of gimmicky, but has multiple uses, and is incredibly fun to play, jump off things all day)
- a zerk rifle warrior build. also gimmicky, but fun, and hilarious to assassinate enemy commanders. It’s also fun to kill bad thieves, mesmers, rangers, etc. Warrior is stupid because it gets to be pretty tanky considering it has full zerker gear on….. high HP pool and heavy armor…
- a longbow condition build. Deals out a LOT of pain. It’s a bit more supporty (I also run radiation field) but it gets a bit boring after a while when you realize all you do is make a big fire field all the time… LITERALLY THATS ALL YOU DO.
I’ve played a lot of other warrior specs as well, and there are many viable ones, but I don’t enjoy playing warrior in solo combat, I feel other classes to it better. To me, warrior is great at many things at a time, and amazing at nothing. Still fun to play, but I’ll eat my left sock the day a warrior finally beats me in solo combat.
i don’t view Warriors as amazing 1v1, so i’m not surprised you don’t like them 1v1…
Guardians though can be good 1v1 against power builds..(Retal)
I take one thing back though, D/P is not the easiest spec in the game to play..
Berserker Rifle Warrior is when zerg surfing.
(stuff)
What spec’s of warrior and guardian are you attempting?
On my guardians I have a full bunker build, and an aggressive offensive support guardian. I never play the bunker anymore (it’s SO boring)
On my warriors I play
- a full tank shout heal death from above (kind of gimmicky, but has multiple uses, and is incredibly fun to play, jump off things all day)
- a zerk rifle warrior build. also gimmicky, but fun, and hilarious to assassinate enemy commanders. It’s also fun to kill bad thieves, mesmers, rangers, etc. Warrior is stupid because it gets to be pretty tanky considering it has full zerker gear on….. high HP pool and heavy armor…
- a longbow condition build. Deals out a LOT of pain. It’s a bit more supporty (I also run radiation field) but it gets a bit boring after a while when you realize all you do is make a big fire field all the time… LITERALLY THATS ALL YOU DO.I’ve played a lot of other warrior specs as well, and there are many viable ones, but I don’t enjoy playing warrior in solo combat, I feel other classes to it better. To me, warrior is great at many things at a time, and amazing at nothing. Still fun to play, but I’ll eat my left sock the day a warrior finally beats me in solo combat.
The builds I like the most on my Warrior are the Longbow condition build, and a bunker build that utilizes the blocking for might trait to its fullest. On my Guardian I use meditation build, and altruistic healing build.
i don’t view Warriors as amazing 1v1, so i’m not surprised you don’t like them 1v1…
Guardians though can be good 1v1 against power builds..(Retal)
I take one thing back though, D/P is not the easiest spec in the game to play..
Berserker Rifle Warrior is when zerg surfing.
I did the whole Beserker Rifle Warrior zerg surfing once, but after one 24k Kill Shot, I lost interest.
I’ve always viewed the ability to leave fights in the middle of combat as incredibly powerful, I’ve posted multiple times in other games like SWTOR and Rift about this issue.
If the game had a team deathmatch like mode, then being able to leave combat would be useful, as your life would be worth something. Unfortunately, unless you are way way way far away from your spawn in wvw, by running away you are essentially wasting time that you could be useful, and your enemy is benefiting by your power not being used. Same goes for spvp. When you run away, you are no longer defending points, attacking enemy points, etc etc. Sometimes it’s better to actually die, and respawn, as odd as that may sound to you.
As someone who also plays a thief extensively I’m going to have to say yeah, we really are op. Have a friend run in first, mess around and get one focus opponent in the group to 70% pop in finish him in secs (he used cooldowns/endurance) then stealth finisher. You guys keep talking as if you never have help and are running rambo.
They’re not OP, and yes I do run solo on my thief, as I do on all my roamers. I’m a scout, that’s what we do. I spec for survival and sustain on all of my roaming builds.
The reason most people complain that thief is op is because
1. They know nothing about the class, and therefore can’t counter it. “That thief went stealth, I guess I’ll just stand here and wait for him to attack me, I heard fear takes them out of stealth, I’ll try that”
2. their spec isn’t for dueling, and 99.99% of the time the thief is running a solo spec. You expect to kill a duelist thief with your support build? Shouldn’t have to explain this one to so many people, but i still do…. ALLLLLLL the time.
3. Complainers spec sucks, and they never do small combat fighting, but they think that zerging has made them inherit some form of skill for small engagements. Zerg tactics is very very different than solo or small combat tactics and movement. They require different mindsets, builds, and playstyles.The reason bad thieves think they are good, and talk about it on the forum:
1. They kill underleveled’s and classes/specs that are not designed for solo combat. This leads to..
2. They are full of themselves. They think that because they killed a support necro that had their back to the thief, it means they must be good. Free kills are just that, free. You didn’t earn the kill, you took advantage of them being someplace they shouldn’t have been. I do it as well, but I wouldn’t brag about it.
3. They play wvw only, and have never engaged good players in spvp or small combat. When they have run into good players in wvw small combat, they run away (see this all the time) I engage thief, thief uses his standard combo, I counter it… then he has no idea what to do and runs away.
4. Many people know little to nothing about thief mechanics, and as a result… get their butt kicked by them because of their lack of knowledge on the class. Same goes for mesmer, and for me right now… GS ranger. I get thief spec’s attacking me constantly where I read their spec immediately and realize they have no chance of killing my spec… but are accustomed to thinking rangers are free kills, so they engage me anyways and die for it.Sometimes I wonder if they even tell their friends, or if they are just too embarrassed that they got killed by a ranger.
Will you stop focusing on the kitten 1v1, something I thought I already mentioned. 1v1 I could care less, it means nothing. Tpvp and WvW where thieves can completely and utterly burst down an engaged opponent in secs without any prior notice and always on thief’s terms.
I’ve always viewed the ability to leave fights in the middle of combat as incredibly powerful, I’ve posted multiple times in other games like SWTOR and Rift about this issue.
If the game had a team deathmatch like mode, then being able to leave combat would be useful, as your life would be worth something. Unfortunately, unless you are way way way far away from your spawn in wvw, by running away you are essentially wasting time that you could be useful, and your enemy is benefiting by your power not being used. Same goes for spvp. When you run away, you are no longer defending points, attacking enemy points, etc etc. Sometimes it’s better to actually die, and respawn, as odd as that may sound to you.
The ability to get away in TPvP and come back without giving up points is powerful
World vs World I think you believe that wasting time is not winning the fight outright and going on to take a point or something? Which tells me you believe that World vs World balance should only be considered based on how it effects the over all point system at the end of the match.
I hate to tell you, but if you balance the game like that its not going to be fun for a vast majority as the end PvP scheme is not related to class balance at all, but more with Population balance.
I can be on a server with the greatest players in the game.. but if we’re outnumbered 2 to 1 in WvW, we’re probably going to lose that WvW match
So balancing a game based on that would be silly.
[more stuff]
This is what I suggest to everyone build surfing:
Either:
1. Find a build/playstyle you already like, and modify it to your individual playstyle.
or
2. Find a weapon/trait line/utility skill that you enjoy, and build an entire spec around it. I’m gonna have some competitions soon to see who can make the best builds focused around bad traits lol.
I enjoy all my characters, but I enjoy some more than others. The ones I find myself playing all the time are the ones with versatility, as it gets old playing gimmick builds. I found a thief last night who was a full daze build. I have boon duration runes, and I popped rampage as one. There was literally NOTHING he could do to me for 28 seconds. Limiting a build like this not only makes you incredibly vulnerable, but also predictable. I like to carry wildcards in my pocket.
Personally I like making builds, but I was also that kid that really enjoyed puzzles, which is what build crafting essentially is. Most of my builds that are already successful are still works in progress. It took me 2 months to finalize my thief build.
I’ve always viewed the ability to leave fights in the middle of combat as incredibly powerful, I’ve posted multiple times in other games like SWTOR and Rift about this issue.
If the game had a team deathmatch like mode, then being able to leave combat would be useful, as your life would be worth something. Unfortunately, unless you are way way way far away from your spawn in wvw, by running away you are essentially wasting time that you could be useful, and your enemy is benefiting by your power not being used. Same goes for spvp. When you run away, you are no longer defending points, attacking enemy points, etc etc. Sometimes it’s better to actually die, and respawn, as odd as that may sound to you.
The ability to get away in TPvP and come back without giving up points is powerful
World vs World I think you believe that wasting time is not winning the fight outright and going on to take a point or something? Which tells me you believe that World vs World balance should only be considered based on how it effects the over all point system at the end of the match.
I hate to tell you, but if you balance the game like that its not going to be fun for a vast majority as the end PvP scheme is not related to class balance at all, but more with Population balance.
I can be on a server with the greatest players in the game.. but if we’re outnumbered 2 to 1 in WvW, we’re probably going to lose that WvW match
So balancing a game based on that would be silly.
Never once did I mention balancing in my post. What are you talking about?
I’ve always viewed the ability to leave fights in the middle of combat as incredibly powerful, I’ve posted multiple times in other games like SWTOR and Rift about this issue.
If the game had a team deathmatch like mode, then being able to leave combat would be useful, as your life would be worth something. Unfortunately, unless you are way way way far away from your spawn in wvw, by running away you are essentially wasting time that you could be useful, and your enemy is benefiting by your power not being used. Same goes for spvp. When you run away, you are no longer defending points, attacking enemy points, etc etc. Sometimes it’s better to actually die, and respawn, as odd as that may sound to you.
The ability to get away in TPvP and come back without giving up points is powerful
World vs World I think you believe that wasting time is not winning the fight outright and going on to take a point or something? Which tells me you believe that World vs World balance should only be considered based on how it effects the over all point system at the end of the match.
I hate to tell you, but if you balance the game like that its not going to be fun for a vast majority as the end PvP scheme is not related to class balance at all, but more with Population balance.
I can be on a server with the greatest players in the game.. but if we’re outnumbered 2 to 1 in WvW, we’re probably going to lose that WvW match
So balancing a game based on that would be silly.
Never once did I mention balancing in my post. What are you talking about?
You’re implying that being able to get away from people isn’t useful to the team based on a point system for both TPvP and WvW…
Its implying that there isn’t a balance issue because it doesn’t have effect on the outcome of the match (which i disagree with on TPvP, and WvW I agree with you on, but based on different reasons)
Will you stop focusing on the kitten 1v1, something I thought I already mentioned. 1v1 I could care less, it means nothing. Tpvp and WvW where thieves can completely and utterly burst down an engaged opponent in secs without any prior notice and always on thief’s terms.
When I say “small combat” I am talking about team fights. So go back and re-read with that in mind.
I will agree with you that when thieves outnumber an opponent it is strong. OP? No, this is the same for every class. I played with 3 rangers the other night, we were killing 10 man groups by ourselves. I also almost killed 2 decent thieves by myself the other night as my ranger, should I have won? No, there were 2 of them. Was I happy that I almost beat them? Absolutely.
The issue a lot of people have in this game in small fights is that they lack the ability to focus fire. Instead of focusing on the biggest threat in a fight, they attack something stupid like a guardian, or spread their dps across all the enemies around them.
On the topic of stealth stomp really quickly – literally the easiest finisher to predict, counter, and exploit. Killed many a thief that was trying to stomp. If you stealth stomp someone that has friends nearby with interrupts, just go ahead and assume they know nothing about thief.
I like talking in circles, it’s fun.
You’re implying that being able to get away from people isn’t useful to the team based on a point system for both TPvP and WvW…
Its implying that there isn’t a balance issue because it doesn’t have effect on the outcome of the match (which i disagree with on TPvP, and WvW I agree with you on, but based on different reasons)
I think you missed this part:
Unfortunately, unless you are way way way far away from your spawn in wvw…
I wasn’t saying 100% of the time running away is useless. It’s situation specific.
Here’s a good example of me running away in a useful way, incase you think I don’t do it.
2 thieves chase my ranger across a borderlands. Half-way across the map I realize they are not going to stop chasing me. I could do 1 of 2 things, port back to spawn, or run up garrison ramp, contest the waypoint and die for it. I chose to contest the waypoint, die, and then respawn.
I could have survived forever running, but there was no point to it, they were going to chase me anywhere I went (It could have been because I was pointing and laughing at them) and my build isn’t capable of countering 2 thieves with the specs they were running (1 a sword dps build, another a d/d burst, both of which are tough fights for my ranger 1v1) I was therefore more useful dying than I would have been continuing to run.
Now if 5 people had been chasing me… I would have run all day. Because more than likely that is a gank group, and the longer I run away, they less useful they are being. Last night I was slapping SoR’s towers and keeps to put swords on them… Then I found out Choo had sent their ENTIRE 70 MAN ZERG to kill me, they chased me cross map for about 3 minutes before I ran out of escapes and died. Running away is useful in these situations as I essentially removed 70 people from the map for 3 minutes and left them on JQ side, as opposed to BG side where they started.
Now does this happen all the time? No. Do I run away from engagements I cannot win? Quite often, I even spec’d so I could do so. Don’t read into things that aren’t there please, it’s terribly annoying having to explain myself in detail, I’d rather kill people in gw2.
(edited by WhiteAndMilky.2514)
You’re implying that being able to get away from people isn’t useful to the team based on a point system for both TPvP and WvW…
Its implying that there isn’t a balance issue because it doesn’t have effect on the outcome of the match (which i disagree with on TPvP, and WvW I agree with you on, but based on different reasons)
I think you missed this part:
Unfortunately, unless you are way way way far away from your spawn in wvw…
I wasn’t saying 100% of the time running away is useless. It’s situation specific.
Here’s a good example of me running away in a useful way, incase you think I don’t do it.
2 thieves chase my ranger across a borderlands. Half-way across the map I realize they are not going to stop chasing me. I could do 1 of 2 things, port back to spawn, or run up garrison ramp, contest the waypoint and die for it. I chose to contest the waypoint, die, and then respawn.
I could have survived forever running, but there was no point to it, they were going to chase me anywhere I went (It could have been because I was pointing and laughing at them) and my build isn’t capable of countering 2 thieves with the specs they were running (1 a sword dps build, another a d/d burst, both of which are tough fights for my ranger 1v1) I was therefore more useful dying than I would have been continuing to run.
Now if 5 people had been chasing me… I would have run all day. Because more than likely that is a gank group, and the longer I run away, they less useful they are being. Last night I was slapping SoR’s towers and keeps to put swords on them… Then I found out Choo had sent their ENTIRE 70 MAN ZERG to kill me, they chased me cross map for about 3 minutes before I ran out of escapes and died. Running away is useful in these situations as I essentially removed 70 people from the map for 3 minutes and left them on JQ side, as opposed to BG side where they started.
Now does this happen all the time? No. Do I run away from engagements I cannot win? Quite often, I even spec’d so I could do so. Don’t read into things that aren’t there please, it’s terribly annoying having to explain myself in detail, I’d rather kill people in gw2.
In otherwords, 2 thieves chased you down and killed you…
You believe that wasn’t a waste though because you contested a point…
Hence my original point, that what you did really didn’t have an effect on the outcome of the match.
Population does..You did not..
You’re implying that being able to get away from people isn’t useful to the team based on a point system for both TPvP and WvW…
Its implying that there isn’t a balance issue because it doesn’t have effect on the outcome of the match (which i disagree with on TPvP, and WvW I agree with you on, but based on different reasons)
I think you missed this part:
Unfortunately, unless you are way way way far away from your spawn in wvw…
I wasn’t saying 100% of the time running away is useless. It’s situation specific.
Here’s a good example of me running away in a useful way, incase you think I don’t do it.
2 thieves chase my ranger across a borderlands. Half-way across the map I realize they are not going to stop chasing me. I could do 1 of 2 things, port back to spawn, or run up garrison ramp, contest the waypoint and die for it. I chose to contest the waypoint, die, and then respawn.
I could have survived forever running, but there was no point to it, they were going to chase me anywhere I went (It could have been because I was pointing and laughing at them) and my build isn’t capable of countering 2 thieves with the specs they were running (1 a sword dps build, another a d/d burst, both of which are tough fights for my ranger 1v1) I was therefore more useful dying than I would have been continuing to run.
Now if 5 people had been chasing me… I would have run all day. Because more than likely that is a gank group, and the longer I run away, they less useful they are being. Last night I was slapping SoR’s towers and keeps to put swords on them… Then I found out Choo had sent their ENTIRE 70 MAN ZERG to kill me, they chased me cross map for about 3 minutes before I ran out of escapes and died. Running away is useful in these situations as I essentially removed 70 people from the map for 3 minutes and left them on JQ side, as opposed to BG side where they started.
Now does this happen all the time? No. Do I run away from engagements I cannot win? Quite often, I even spec’d so I could do so. Don’t read into things that aren’t there please, it’s terribly annoying having to explain myself in detail, I’d rather kill people in gw2.
In otherwords, 2 thieves chased you down and killed you…
You believe that wasn’t a waste though because you contested a point…
Hence my original point, that what you did really didn’t have an effect on the outcome of the match.
Population does..You did not..
I prevented JQ from being able to react in time and my server took bay. Are you new to wvw? Do you have any idea how useful contesting a waypoint at the proper time is? This conversation is over, you’re very dense and inexperienced.
If a class, any class , has the ability to choose who and when to fight , and on top of that has very good mobility , there needs to be a penalty . The best possible outcome against a solid thief is for them to run . The worst is that you die . That is it .
Hence why people complain about elementalist and thief . The first is just OP , without any doubt . The second , is very badly designed . The stealth has way to much influence on the class , and the 1v1 duel potential is totally dragging down Thief PvE strength .
Thiefs are inherently broken due to design . Elementalists are broken because of balance issues . Please , Thief players , stop comparing the two .
If a class, any class , has the ability to choose who and when to fight , and on top of that has very good mobility , there needs to be a penalty . The best possible outcome against a solid thief is for them to run . The worst is that you die . That is it .
Hence why people complain about elementalist and thief . The first is just OP , without any doubt . The second , is very badly designed . The stealth has way to much influence on the class , and the 1v1 duel potential is totally dragging down Thief PvE strength .
Thiefs are inherently broken due to design . Elementalists are broken because of balance issues . Please , Thief players , stop comparing the two .
Have you played thief extensively? Ele?
WhideAndMilky, that is always a bad argument to make and has no value in debates.
I prevented JQ from being able to react in time and my server took bay. Are you new to wvw? Do you have any idea how useful contesting a waypoint at the proper time is? This conversation is over, you’re very dense and inexperienced.
I’d watch Xsorus Ranger videos, then watch what he does in his Thief videos, with very little time played as a Thief.
He’s far from inexperienced.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Xsorus/videos?view=0
Diagree with him, as I do on “some” issues, but don’t call him inexperienced.
WvW point of view.
First point. To those Thieves that post …“If you make the Thief run away, then haven’t you won ?” Answer : No.
Yes, Thieves are stronger than most classes 1v1. Yes, I can beat Thieves. If the player controlling the Thief is equal to, or better than me, he will win. I think they are a tad too strong, especially the things a very skilled player can pull off. I will reevaluate my opinion when I get back from vacation and test out the changes installed on the 26th.
Mesmers on the other hand ? On both my Ranger and newly 80 Warrior when I bump into a Memser I disengage and leave the fight. I am 1 for 129 vs Mesmers and the only one I beat was afk…and it was still a close fight.
I prevented JQ from being able to react in time and my server took bay. Are you new to wvw? Do you have any idea how useful contesting a waypoint at the proper time is? This conversation is over, you’re very dense and inexperienced.
I’d watch Xsorus Ranger videos, then watch what he does in his Thief videos, with very little time played as a Thief.
He’s far from inexperienced.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Xsorus/videos?view=0
Diagree with him, as I do on “some” issues, but don’t call him inexperienced.
Inexperienced in the sense of knowing little about large scale wvw tactics. I was not implying he was lacking in skill or knowledge of game mechanics and abilities, I have yet to determine whether or not that would be true.
(edited by WhiteAndMilky.2514)
In small scale player v players fights, thieves are terribly OP.
I play a thief.
In small scale player v player fights I am terribly OP.
I have much experience tooling around in WvW.
I have videos up of my ranger Turkish Krul.
I have roamed as a Mesmer.
I have over 3,000 kills and I rarely, if ever, run with a zerg.
I play a thief.
I am terribly, ridiculously, and WAAAAY….over….powered.
You’re implying that being able to get away from people isn’t useful to the team based on a point system for both TPvP and WvW…
Its implying that there isn’t a balance issue because it doesn’t have effect on the outcome of the match (which i disagree with on TPvP, and WvW I agree with you on, but based on different reasons)
I think you missed this part:
Unfortunately, unless you are way way way far away from your spawn in wvw…
I wasn’t saying 100% of the time running away is useless. It’s situation specific.
Here’s a good example of me running away in a useful way, incase you think I don’t do it.
2 thieves chase my ranger across a borderlands. Half-way across the map I realize they are not going to stop chasing me. I could do 1 of 2 things, port back to spawn, or run up garrison ramp, contest the waypoint and die for it. I chose to contest the waypoint, die, and then respawn.
I could have survived forever running, but there was no point to it, they were going to chase me anywhere I went (It could have been because I was pointing and laughing at them) and my build isn’t capable of countering 2 thieves with the specs they were running (1 a sword dps build, another a d/d burst, both of which are tough fights for my ranger 1v1) I was therefore more useful dying than I would have been continuing to run.
Now if 5 people had been chasing me… I would have run all day. Because more than likely that is a gank group, and the longer I run away, they less useful they are being. Last night I was slapping SoR’s towers and keeps to put swords on them… Then I found out Choo had sent their ENTIRE 70 MAN ZERG to kill me, they chased me cross map for about 3 minutes before I ran out of escapes and died. Running away is useful in these situations as I essentially removed 70 people from the map for 3 minutes and left them on JQ side, as opposed to BG side where they started.
Now does this happen all the time? No. Do I run away from engagements I cannot win? Quite often, I even spec’d so I could do so. Don’t read into things that aren’t there please, it’s terribly annoying having to explain myself in detail, I’d rather kill people in gw2.
In otherwords, 2 thieves chased you down and killed you…
You believe that wasn’t a waste though because you contested a point…
Hence my original point, that what you did really didn’t have an effect on the outcome of the match.
Population does..You did not..
I prevented JQ from being able to react in time and my server took bay. Are you new to wvw? Do you have any idea how useful contesting a waypoint at the proper time is? This conversation is over, you’re very dense and inexperienced.
Did your server win the matchup?
It’s probably just a stealth exploiting food buffed power/precision/toughness specced thief.
You don’t need skill to kill other classes with a build and class like that so don’t worry. They are overpowered as kitten.
Did your server win the matchup?
Yet to be determined this week. But most likely we will end up in second place. SoR cannot hope to beat JQ, so SoR is no threat to them. This means that JQ attacks blackgate because we threaten them, and SoR attacks blackgate because they cannot beat JQ, and their only chance is to play for 2nd place. With the current balancing of wvw, this tier 1 meta won’t change anytime soon. So all we can do is pound SoR into the ground until they eventually drop tier and we can get someone else who would hopefully be good enough to contest JQ coverage. It’s unfortunate, but it’s the current status of tier 1 and it makes sense. But there are good battles to be had so I cannot complain.
Did your server win the matchup?
Yet to be determined this week. But most likely we will end up in second place. SoR cannot hope to beat JQ, so SoR is no threat to them. This means that JQ attacks blackgate because we threaten them, and SoR attacks blackgate because they cannot beat JQ, and their only chance is to play for 2nd place. With the current balancing of wvw, this tier 1 meta won’t change anytime soon. So all we can do is pound SoR into the ground until they eventually drop tier and we can get someone else who would hopefully be good enough to contest JQ coverage. It’s unfortunate, but it’s the current status of tier 1 and it makes sense. But there are good battles to be had so I cannot complain.
So you cannot beat JQ because of Population correct?
Did your server win the matchup?
Yet to be determined this week. But most likely we will end up in second place. SoR cannot hope to beat JQ, so SoR is no threat to them. This means that JQ attacks blackgate because we threaten them, and SoR attacks blackgate because they cannot beat JQ, and their only chance is to play for 2nd place. With the current balancing of wvw, this tier 1 meta won’t change anytime soon. So all we can do is pound SoR into the ground until they eventually drop tier and we can get someone else who would hopefully be good enough to contest JQ coverage. It’s unfortunate, but it’s the current status of tier 1 and it makes sense. But there are good battles to be had so I cannot complain.
So you cannot beat JQ because of Population correct?
JQ has pretty nice coverage, but we have beaten them already in one matchup. As I stated however, we are essentially forced to fight vs 2 servers that have no reason to attack each other.
Rangers generally have an advantage over thieves in small scale fights, especially if you play the popular trap build. Spike trap makes it harder for them to get behind you when they do blinding powder. You can spam traps on the shadow refuge area. Shared agony really messes up their opening combo. Rangers are not easy targets for thieves.
Rangers generally have an advantage over thieves in small scale fights, especially if you play the popular trap build. Spike trap makes it harder for them to get behind you when they do blinding powder. You can spam traps on the shadow refuge area. Shared agony really messes up their opening combo. Rangers are not easy targets for thieves.
Don’t tell thieves that. They think I am a free kill. Thankfully most of them don’t know anything about other professions.
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