Guild Wars 2

When I was talking about a Celestial Shortbow/Longbow build, it wasn’t a trapper build and he was using it in sPvP.

As far as someone being on top of you being an issue, I half agree. If comparing the shortbow to Sword or Greatsword, you have less defenses (and less mobility). If comparing it to MH/OH Axe, Warhorn, Torch, Dagger, you get a little more survival.

Sebrent.3625:

When I was talking about a Celestial Shortbow/Longbow build, it wasn’t a trapper build and he was using it in sPvP.

As far as someone being on top of you being an issue, I half agree. If comparing the shortbow to Sword or Greatsword, you have less defenses (and less mobility). If comparing it to MH/OH Axe, Warhorn, Torch, Dagger, you get a little more survival.

Which. Build are ya talkin bout? The double bow one

@StickerHappy: Yes, but not double-bow trapper. If Durzlla comes back, I’m sure he can describe it. I’m trying to remember the exact build, but he was quite effective with it.

@Shortbow Bleed
I don’t see why it would need to become a 1s bleed if they removed the flanking. They already nerfed the attack speed of the shortbow auto a while back … why can’t it have a nice bleed like other weapons’ auto-attacks …

• it’s not like we’re asking for a Bleed + Weakness like Engineer Elixir Gun gets
• … or Bleeds and Poison like Necromancer Scepter AA-chain
• … or Elementalist Scepter in Earth which applies 1 bleed every 0.5s (same as a flanking shortbow) with a base duration of 6s (compared to Shortbow’s 3s bleeds) duration) … without the Elementalist scepter requiring flanking :-/

Sebrent.3625:

@StickerHappy: Yes, but not double-bow trapper. If Durzlla comes back, I’m sure he can describe it. I’m trying to remember the exact build, but he was quite effective with it.

@Shortbow Bleed
I don’t see why it would need to become a 1s bleed if they removed the flanking. They already nerfed the attack speed of the shortbow auto a while back … why can’t it have a nice bleed like other weapons …

• it’s not like we’re asking for a Bleed + Weakness like Engineer Elixir Gun gets
• … or Bleeds and Poison like Necromancer Scepter AA-chain
• … or Elementalist Scepter in Earth which applies 1 bleed every 0.5s (same as a flanking shortbow) with a base duration of 6s (compared to Shortbow’s 3s bleeds) duration) … without the Elementalist scepter requiring flanking :-/

Is that the same build that aussie uses? I think its called pirate ranger or something

I’m not familiar with Aussie. If you can direct me to them, I’ll take a look and see if it matches with my memories from playing with Durzlla.

Sebrent.3625:

I’m not familiar with Aussie. If you can direct me to them, I’ll take a look and see if it matches with my memories from playing with Durzlla.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=j0lhWbTukpo

Thanks. Since it’s using berzerker, I have to say no, but I’m wanting to try that build out now :-p

It does feel like it’s close to what I recall Durzlla using back then.

Sebrent.3625:

Thanks. Since it’s using berzerker, I have to say no, but I’m wanting to try that build out now :-p

It does feel like it’s close to what I recall Durzlla using back then.

Do you know any more details Bout durz’ build? Maybe we can piece it together

Sorry … almost 30 and 3 kids is sucking my braincells :-p

• It used Celestial
• It used Longbow + Shortbow
• I think the traits were similar to the build used in that video you linked as it had at least 4 in Skirmishing for 20% bow cooldown reduction and at least 4 in Marksman for Piercing Arrows so that players couldn’t hide from your shots behind minions/others.
• Quite positive about it having those points in Skirmishing due to good uptime on Fury+Swiftness from weapon swapping.

I want to say that it was perhaps a 4/4/0/6/0 … but I thought I also remembered it having 3 in WS for Protection on-dodge … obviously can’t have both.

It takes awhile to kill Certain things… But what you need that time to kill you can’t kill any faster as a ranger without dying yourself.

Eurantien.4632:

Trap builds don’t win 1v1s. And there is little mobility or survivability in bigger fights. I think mobility is huge Jebroe, being able to rotate fast wins games. As for using healing spring over troll, it is an option, not my preferred one though. In the end, we can’t do it all so we have to sacrifice a little, what I suggested is an attempt to 1v1 and do a little bit in team fights in terms of being on point, frame cleave, might stacks, etc.

I definitely get what you’re saying, I just wanted to make sure you were sold on mobility being more important than fighting potential.

I’ll have the opportunity to play around more with what you linked tonight.

Sebrent.3625:

Sorry … almost 30 and 3 kids is sucking my braincells :-p

• It used Celestial
• It used Longbow + Shortbow
• I think the traits were similar to the build used in that video you linked as it had at least 4 in Skirmishing for 20% bow cooldown reduction and at least 4 in Marksman for Piercing Arrows so that players couldn’t hide from your shots behind minions/others.
• Quite positive about it having those points in Skirmishing due to good uptime on Fury+Swiftness from weapon swapping.

I want to say that it was perhaps a 4/4/0/6/0 … but I thought I also remembered it having 3 in WS for Protection on-dodge … obviously can’t have both.

I’ll go ahead and ask him on Skype for you guys.

jcbroe.4329:

Eurantien.4632:

Trap builds don’t win 1v1s. And there is little mobility or survivability in bigger fights. I think mobility is huge Jebroe, being able to rotate fast wins games. As for using healing spring over troll, it is an option, not my preferred one though. In the end, we can’t do it all so we have to sacrifice a little, what I suggested is an attempt to 1v1 and do a little bit in team fights in terms of being on point, frame cleave, might stacks, etc.

I definitely get what you’re saying, I just wanted to make sure you were sold on mobility being more important than fighting potential.

I’ll have the opportunity to play around more with what you linked tonight.

I whole heartedly disagree with the fact that traps dont win 1v1s.

jcbroe.4329:

Sebrent.3625:

Sorry … almost 30 and 3 kids is sucking my braincells :-p

• It used Celestial
• It used Longbow + Shortbow
• I think the traits were similar to the build used in that video you linked as it had at least 4 in Skirmishing for 20% bow cooldown reduction and at least 4 in Marksman for Piercing Arrows so that players couldn’t hide from your shots behind minions/others.
• Quite positive about it having those points in Skirmishing due to good uptime on Fury+Swiftness from weapon swapping.

I want to say that it was perhaps a 4/4/0/6/0 … but I thought I also remembered it having 3 in WS for Protection on-dodge … obviously can’t have both.

I’ll go ahead and ask him on Skype for you guys.

Thank you jeyroh, pls do post it here if he ever replies.

StickerHappy.8052:

jcbroe.4329:

Eurantien.4632:

Trap builds don’t win 1v1s. And there is little mobility or survivability in bigger fights. I think mobility is huge Jebroe, being able to rotate fast wins games. As for using healing spring over troll, it is an option, not my preferred one though. In the end, we can’t do it all so we have to sacrifice a little, what I suggested is an attempt to 1v1 and do a little bit in team fights in terms of being on point, frame cleave, might stacks, etc.

I definitely get what you’re saying, I just wanted to make sure you were sold on mobility being more important than fighting potential.

I’ll have the opportunity to play around more with what you linked tonight.

I whole heartedly disagree with the fact that traps dont win 1v1s.

I respect your opinion but I just can’t imagine a scenario where I could ever 1v1 Tarcis or Phantaram (with them on meta builds) with a trap build. There is no defense, no sustain, and the damage is easily mitigated.

Eurantien.4632:

StickerHappy.8052:

jcbroe.4329:

Eurantien.4632:

Trap builds don’t win 1v1s. And there is little mobility or survivability in bigger fights. I think mobility is huge Jebroe, being able to rotate fast wins games. As for using healing spring over troll, it is an option, not my preferred one though. In the end, we can’t do it all so we have to sacrifice a little, what I suggested is an attempt to 1v1 and do a little bit in team fights in terms of being on point, frame cleave, might stacks, etc.

I definitely get what you’re saying, I just wanted to make sure you were sold on mobility being more important than fighting potential.

I’ll have the opportunity to play around more with what you linked tonight.

I whole heartedly disagree with the fact that traps dont win 1v1s.

I respect your opinion but I just can’t imagine a scenario where I could ever 1v1 Tarcis or Phantaram (with them on meta builds) with a trap build. There is no defense, no sustain, and the damage is easily mitigated.

Hmm.. I usually do great against eles. Don’t mean to brag but im quite decent at ranger, just a thought how do you play as a trap ranger? I only saw you playing power spec.

Never been a fan of trap ranger. I could possibly be playing it terrible but I like to think I’m quite decent at ranger as well :/.

the problem with trap builds are mostly playing against classes with many condi removes. until you reach a certain level in pvp, you can beat any1 easily, even cele eles and shoutbows. But after reachng that point, you cant beat them, cause they dont commit easy mistakes and, like eura said, they simply mitigate the damage. However, those are only two builds in this meta. you can still beat any other builds than those two. It is decent, but can also be hardcountered.

A good elementalist is going to make sure he can either go into water to cleanse conditions or use utilities to cleanse. He won’t leave himself without some way to mitigate conditions unless he has completely “screwed the pooch” and been continuously loaded up … which would suggest bad play which would also suggest a not-so-great elementalist.

I’ve been having some good success with LB and Sword Torch as well kitten and Sword Torch, but I think that in the long run, both of the builds at the higher end would lose their 1v1ing potentially against key classes.

I’m pretty much at the same point I think Eurantien has probably already arrived at, that at this point, am I even doing enough with options like this for a teamfight? Or would I honestly just be better off going for Axe/Dagger Sword/Torch and say screw teamfighting, and try to roam/duelist, at which point I don’t personally think ranger is competing for a teamslot against any of the other meta builds.

Jroh, did durzlla told you about the build yesterday?…?

StickerHappy.8052:

Jroh, did durzlla told you about the build yesterday?…?

Yeah, well, kind of. This is the exact response (removed name and time stamps):

I know it was celestial, I know it was SB, LB, I know I had Entangle, LR, a brown bear + fernhound, and I know I had the bleeds on crit trait in skirm, probably had 30 in BM for QZ on swap
I’d guess I also had flame trap (no traits for traps), lower CDs on bows, traveler runes and protect me
Healing spring was definitely the heal
Probably had 20 in WS and took vigorous healers celerity and hide in plain sight/vigorous renewal
LB probably had sig of air and earth and SB probably had sig of earth and hydromancy

Knowing him, this seems fairly accurate, and I wouldn’t even begin to discuss the efficiency of the choices with him if you asked me to. Not worth the struggle, and I in trying to decipher it since it’s been awhile, we were both guessing.

Durz could probably have fought naked and made it efficient … let’s be honest :-p

jcbroe.4329:

StickerHappy.8052:

Jroh, did durzlla told you about the build yesterday?…?

Yeah, well, kind of. This is the exact response (removed name and time stamps):

I know it was celestial, I know it was SB, LB, I know I had Entangle, LR, a brown bear + fernhound, and I know I had the bleeds on crit trait in skirm, probably had 30 in BM for QZ on swap
I’d guess I also had flame trap (no traits for traps), lower CDs on bows, traveler runes and protect me
Healing spring was definitely the heal
Probably had 20 in WS and took vigorous healers celerity and hide in plain sight/vigorous renewal
LB probably had sig of air and earth and SB probably had sig of earth and hydromancy

Knowing him, this seems fairly accurate, and I wouldn’t even begin to discuss the efficiency of the choices with him if you asked me to, because he’s always right hahaha. Not worth the struggle.

Was this pvp? Lol

StickerHappy.8052:

jcbroe.4329:

StickerHappy.8052:

Jroh, did durzlla told you about the build yesterday?…?

Yeah, well, kind of. This is the exact response (removed name and time stamps):

I know it was celestial, I know it was SB, LB, I know I had Entangle, LR, a brown bear + fernhound, and I know I had the bleeds on crit trait in skirm, probably had 30 in BM for QZ on swap
I’d guess I also had flame trap (no traits for traps), lower CDs on bows, traveler runes and protect me
Healing spring was definitely the heal
Probably had 20 in WS and took vigorous healers celerity and hide in plain sight/vigorous renewal
LB probably had sig of air and earth and SB probably had sig of earth and hydromancy

Knowing him, this seems fairly accurate, and I wouldn’t even begin to discuss the efficiency of the choices with him if you asked me to, because he’s always right hahaha. Not worth the struggle.

Was this pvp? Lol

Yeah lol. Those pet choices were/are choices he runs religiously, and he’s been advocating for Mercy runes since pretty much launch (which would couple with his healer’s celerity choice I believe). He (and to some degree if pets were reliable and bears would use their F2 on you and not the enemy, I can see it) swears by only needing the cleanse on brown bear and healing spring and that it’s more than enough healing.
He probably had Signet of Renewal as well though, I noticed the 3rd utility slot was missing.

I mean, hey, I’m just the messenger here lol. I just know he swears up and down that you don’t have to play anything considered “meta” and that most meta players are sheep that you can easily beat by just outplaying them.

jcbroe.4329:

StickerHappy.8052:

jcbroe.4329:

StickerHappy.8052:

Jroh, did durzlla told you about the build yesterday?…?

Yeah, well, kind of. This is the exact response (removed name and time stamps):

I know it was celestial, I know it was SB, LB, I know I had Entangle, LR, a brown bear + fernhound, and I know I had the bleeds on crit trait in skirm, probably had 30 in BM for QZ on swap
I’d guess I also had flame trap (no traits for traps), lower CDs on bows, traveler runes and protect me
Healing spring was definitely the heal
Probably had 20 in WS and took vigorous healers celerity and hide in plain sight/vigorous renewal
LB probably had sig of air and earth and SB probably had sig of earth and hydromancy

Knowing him, this seems fairly accurate, and I wouldn’t even begin to discuss the efficiency of the choices with him if you asked me to, because he’s always right hahaha. Not worth the struggle.

Was this pvp? Lol

Yeah lol. Those pet choices were/are choices he runs religiously, and he’s been advocating for Mercy runes since pretty much launch (which would couple with his healer’s celerity choice I believe). He (and to some degree if pets were reliable and bears would use their F2 on you and not the enemy, I can see it) swears by only needing the cleanse on brown bear and healing spring and that it’s more than enough healing.
He probably had Signet of Renewal as well though, I noticed the 3rd utility slot was missing.

I mean, hey, I’m just the messenger here lol. I just know he swears up and down that you don’t have to play anything considered “meta” and that most meta players are sheep that you can easily beat by just outplaying them.

Oh i agree whole heartedly with the meta sheep comment. So if I might ask you, is there any reason to take healing/condition damage based f2s for pets? If they have 0 condi damage/ healing power stat to begin with? (Even with traited, 350 flat bonus, and a waste of trait options)

StickerHappy.8052:

jcbroe.4329:

StickerHappy.8052:

jcbroe.4329:

StickerHappy.8052:

Jroh, did durzlla told you about the build yesterday?…?

Yeah, well, kind of. This is the exact response (removed name and time stamps):

I know it was celestial, I know it was SB, LB, I know I had Entangle, LR, a brown bear + fernhound, and I know I had the bleeds on crit trait in skirm, probably had 30 in BM for QZ on swap
I’d guess I also had flame trap (no traits for traps), lower CDs on bows, traveler runes and protect me
Healing spring was definitely the heal
Probably had 20 in WS and took vigorous healers celerity and hide in plain sight/vigorous renewal
LB probably had sig of air and earth and SB probably had sig of earth and hydromancy

Knowing him, this seems fairly accurate, and I wouldn’t even begin to discuss the efficiency of the choices with him if you asked me to, because he’s always right hahaha. Not worth the struggle.

Was this pvp? Lol

Yeah lol. Those pet choices were/are choices he runs religiously, and he’s been advocating for Mercy runes since pretty much launch (which would couple with his healer’s celerity choice I believe). He (and to some degree if pets were reliable and bears would use their F2 on you and not the enemy, I can see it) swears by only needing the cleanse on brown bear and healing spring and that it’s more than enough healing.
He probably had Signet of Renewal as well though, I noticed the 3rd utility slot was missing.

I mean, hey, I’m just the messenger here lol. I just know he swears up and down that you don’t have to play anything considered “meta” and that most meta players are sheep that you can easily beat by just outplaying them.

Oh i agree whole heartedly with the meta sheep comment. So if I might ask you, is there any reason to take healing/condition damage based f2s for pets? If they have 0 condi damage/ healing power stat to begin with? (Even with traited, 350 flat bonus, and a waste of trait options)

Nope, Fern hound is terrible. Would you rather have 1.3k heal that covers your own possibly higher healing power regen from healing spring? Or would you rather just mitigate all that damage with a fear or immob instead?

Brown bear is alright. That condi clear is decent.

Eurantien.4632:

StickerHappy.8052:

jcbroe.4329:

StickerHappy.8052:

jcbroe.4329:

StickerHappy.8052:

Jroh, did durzlla told you about the build yesterday?…?

Yeah, well, kind of. This is the exact response (removed name and time stamps):

I know it was celestial, I know it was SB, LB, I know I had Entangle, LR, a brown bear + fernhound, and I know I had the bleeds on crit trait in skirm, probably had 30 in BM for QZ on swap
I’d guess I also had flame trap (no traits for traps), lower CDs on bows, traveler runes and protect me
Healing spring was definitely the heal
Probably had 20 in WS and took vigorous healers celerity and hide in plain sight/vigorous renewal
LB probably had sig of air and earth and SB probably had sig of earth and hydromancy

Knowing him, this seems fairly accurate, and I wouldn’t even begin to discuss the efficiency of the choices with him if you asked me to, because he’s always right hahaha. Not worth the struggle.

Was this pvp? Lol

Yeah lol. Those pet choices were/are choices he runs religiously, and he’s been advocating for Mercy runes since pretty much launch (which would couple with his healer’s celerity choice I believe). He (and to some degree if pets were reliable and bears would use their F2 on you and not the enemy, I can see it) swears by only needing the cleanse on brown bear and healing spring and that it’s more than enough healing.
He probably had Signet of Renewal as well though, I noticed the 3rd utility slot was missing.

I mean, hey, I’m just the messenger here lol. I just know he swears up and down that you don’t have to play anything considered “meta” and that most meta players are sheep that you can easily beat by just outplaying them.

Oh i agree whole heartedly with the meta sheep comment. So if I might ask you, is there any reason to take healing/condition damage based f2s for pets? If they have 0 condi damage/ healing power stat to begin with? (Even with traited, 350 flat bonus, and a waste of trait options)

Nope, Fern hound is terrible. Would you rather have 1.3k heal that covers your own possibly higher healing power regen from healing spring? Or would you rather just mitigate all that damage with a fear or immob instead?

Brown bear is alright. That condi clear is decent.

Okay Mr Eura, I would assume there is really no reason for other pets for PvP other than dog and wolf right? (which i also use most of the time)

Yeah I don’t even know why there are such poor traiting options for pets like that to begin with. I mean, I guess with a full investment into BM plus one of the traits, ANet at some point thought that 600-700 point pet stat would be worthwhile, but… well, we know better lol.

Anyhow, @everyone;

I’m pretty sure that at this point, even though I don’t want the thread to end because the discussion is fantastic, that we’ve all at least silently agreed by now that nothing is really changing until the expansion and that until then, PvP ranger builds will always be missing something compared to their counterparts on a team.

So let’s “zoom out,” so to speak, of the nitpicked details of the actual builds and have a broader discussion. We all pretty much agree that we are trying to build 3 categories, but that only 2 categories can really have their potential maximized upon at a time. Categories:

• Teamfights
• 1v1s (or super small scale sidepoint fights basically)
• mobility

So I’m just curious at this point what we think the overall consensus is for the categories if we can only maximize the potential of 2 of them. Or if you can’t choose just 2, prioritize them from most to least important, ex: mobility>1v1>teamfight (not my actual thoughts, just an example).

I still want to try Arrow Slanger’s pure melee build that I never got around to getting from him in game as well.

jcbroe.4329:

I still want to try Arrow Slanger’s pure melee build that I never got around to getting from him in game as well.

I don’t have time to dig up the thread, but didn’t he run 00626 in the king of the ranger hill tourney? Or was that Siriso (sp?) They ran the same double melee build I like to use for duels and won a bunch of rounds on the hill if I’m thinking of the right person.

StickerHappy.8052:

Eurantien.4632:

StickerHappy.8052:

jcbroe.4329:

StickerHappy.8052:

jcbroe.4329:

StickerHappy.8052:

Jroh, did durzlla told you about the build yesterday?…?

Yeah, well, kind of. This is the exact response (removed name and time stamps):

I know it was celestial, I know it was SB, LB, I know I had Entangle, LR, a brown bear + fernhound, and I know I had the bleeds on crit trait in skirm, probably had 30 in BM for QZ on swap
I’d guess I also had flame trap (no traits for traps), lower CDs on bows, traveler runes and protect me
Healing spring was definitely the heal
Probably had 20 in WS and took vigorous healers celerity and hide in plain sight/vigorous renewal
LB probably had sig of air and earth and SB probably had sig of earth and hydromancy

Knowing him, this seems fairly accurate, and I wouldn’t even begin to discuss the efficiency of the choices with him if you asked me to, because he’s always right hahaha. Not worth the struggle.

Was this pvp? Lol

Yeah lol. Those pet choices were/are choices he runs religiously, and he’s been advocating for Mercy runes since pretty much launch (which would couple with his healer’s celerity choice I believe). He (and to some degree if pets were reliable and bears would use their F2 on you and not the enemy, I can see it) swears by only needing the cleanse on brown bear and healing spring and that it’s more than enough healing.
He probably had Signet of Renewal as well though, I noticed the 3rd utility slot was missing.

I mean, hey, I’m just the messenger here lol. I just know he swears up and down that you don’t have to play anything considered “meta” and that most meta players are sheep that you can easily beat by just outplaying them.

Oh i agree whole heartedly with the meta sheep comment. So if I might ask you, is there any reason to take healing/condition damage based f2s for pets? If they have 0 condi damage/ healing power stat to begin with? (Even with traited, 350 flat bonus, and a waste of trait options)

Nope, Fern hound is terrible. Would you rather have 1.3k heal that covers your own possibly higher healing power regen from healing spring? Or would you rather just mitigate all that damage with a fear or immob instead?

Brown bear is alright. That condi clear is decent.

Okay Mr Eura, I would assume there is really no reason for other pets for PvP other than dog and wolf right? (which i also use most of the time)

I mean, dog and wolf are probably the best just because of what they do and because the immob on the dog is a really low cd. However, there are a lot of other close contenders that I could see be argued for a spot (in no particular order):
River drake
Frost wolf
immob spiders
Brown bear
Snow Leopard
Jaguar
Birds

Then there are niche pets that you might consider using because of your build
Condi cover spider (the one that applies 2 condis on F2)
Black bear
Moas
Marsh drake

Then there are pets that I think should almost never be used as they currently are:
Hyenas
Pigs
Fern wolf
devourers
the other spider
the other cats
polar bear

Then there are pets that should NEVER be used:
Murrelow
Arctodus
the other drakes

Did I get them all?

I just can’t see fern wolf being chosen because of its poor regen. Sure, it gives regen but if anyone else on your team is giving you regen or you are giving yourself regen then its better to have it coming from someone who has healing power! Just makes sense to me. I’d rather have a 250 hp regen tick than a 130.

@ What is Arrow Slanger’s melee build?

We had a convo about this.

Started with: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQNAsYRjEq0yaFLOsQ1aALhqdDEAFwrT1dJ8A3cBPSA-TpBHABEcCAK4BAAwRAQt9HUuMQAHCAA

To which I said, "

So I’ve only been able to try it in a few solo queues since I don’t have time to be on a team atm. However, I can provide insight into how I think it would play out in a team scenario. To be honest, I like it. The amount of armor and with SoS and all the evades, prot, blocks, etc (especially with martial mastery) allows that you can’t get +1’d easily and I have been very surprised by the amount of damage the pet is managing to toss out with only limited cripples and chills coming out from myself. And I mean that in 1 v 2s where I can survive for a long time and get someone about 50% hp which would make a proper thief rotation win turn that 1 v 2 in seconds. I think it COULD work with a coordinated team but it would require a team to be able to play a 3 nodes strat. That being said, I don’t think there are ANY other potential ranger builds that can play 3 nodes properly, the mobility of this build allows that and the burst from the hilt bash maul and a buffed pet F2 with the hilt bash actually allows decent burst when rolling into a fight, and with coordination… I think that could be big."

+ there was some in game convo about celestial and adding in some more damage in places, wishing that maul had bleeds on it again, etc.

To which he responded, "I took your advice a couple days ago and tried it out with Cele ammy along with 2 trait points in Marksmanship for Keen Edge. Here is the final build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQNAsYRjEq0yaFLOsQ1aABhaVA0uGShWwdTcDfdJrYJ-TZRHwADOBAp3fIwTAAwhA4YZAA

This one seems to work better when solo joining ranked matches. I think because of the extra damage, you don’t have to rely on your teammate/thief coming to help +1 you on a node. Whereas the other build has the sustainability to wait for your +1 to come help."

Hope that helps.

@Eurantien;

Yeah that’s pretty much exactly what I was thinking, except that I was going to extract some advice from this thread and run it with Poison Master (or even alternatively go 4/0/4/6/0 for spotter as a variant) instead of EB, and I’m thinking with dual blades, I would drop Traveler Runes as well for Hoelbrak runes for overall in fight utility and the fact that you can maintain 3-6 stacks of might from just the runeset since dual blade should be providing enough mobility.

It also occurred to me that I’ve never tried a celestial setup like this with GS and Axe/Dagger. I imagined it working similarly to the Lb Axe/Dagger build that I tried out except that you sacrifice ranged damage for mobility, but my idea for it is still that it even might retain enough teamfight presence with the GS damage and Splitblade, so that you hop in, reverse the damage order (Splitblade spike into GS spike), then hop back out of the teamfight using the defensive tools as necessary (swoop, block, etc), and it should pretty much retain all of its dueling capabilities, although the loss of the hyper mobility might warrant re-adding traveler runes to the build.

Something I’ll definitely have to try.

Eurantien.4632:

@ What is Arrow Slanger’s melee build?

We had a convo about this.

Started with: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQNAsYRjEq0yaFLOsQ1aALhqdDEAFwrT1dJ8A3cBPSA-TpBHABEcCAK4BAAwRAQt9HUuMQAHCAA

I love that build a lot. But in WvW with ascended gear and food.

I’m leaning more and more away from the Greatsword ever since I looked at DPS between a non-flanking Shortbow Crossfire and Greatsword’s auto-attack chain and noticed that from 70 Power and up that the Shortbow Crossfire does more damage. Between that, Maul being a huge telegraph that is easily avoided, and Shortbow having range and a bleed if flanking … I’m wanting to investigate replacing Greatsword with Shortbow (or something else).

Sure, we can discuss how 2-5 on Greatsword are nice, but we aren’t Warriors with Fast Hands. We’re “stuck” in whatever weapon set for a minimum of 10 seconds.

Sebrent.3625:

…We’re “stuck” in whatever weapon set for a minimum of 10 seconds.

There is one way of reducing that to 8s. The Superior Rune of the Warrior, but the loss of stats to get that (6) bonus is pretty hard and not worth it imo. Too bad its not Power/Precision instead of Vit/Power.

Preaching to the choir on that one, bud :-)

I’ve been playing around a bit more with Beasmastery builds that have a solid amount of cripple/chill/immobilize; focusing on the fact that our pets’ DPS increases dramatically against slow/immobile targets.

Was thinking back and that was actually the logic behind trying to create chill builds … that and it was easier to whittle someone down when their skills were recharging slower too :-p

I was looking at the chill build posted from another thread last night. I’m not a huge fan of the SB and I am horrible with melee

Edit: Here is the build from the thread that is now on the 2nd page:
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fNUQRAsf3YjEq0yaNL+rQ1aAAhaVA0OHa2Yw9RsDjdBPmA-TFSEABKoE8hnAge6HAw83RK/iZ/BMV/phTCApAgYsF-w

Sebrent.3625:

I’m leaning more and more away from the Greatsword ever since I looked at DPS between a non-flanking Shortbow Crossfire and Greatsword’s auto-attack chain and noticed that from 70 Power and up that the Shortbow Crossfire does more damage. Between that, Maul being a huge telegraph that is easily avoided, and Shortbow having range and a bleed if flanking … I’m wanting to investigate replacing Greatsword with Shortbow (or something else).

Sure, we can discuss how 2-5 on Greatsword are nice, but we aren’t Warriors with Fast Hands. We’re “stuck” in whatever weapon set for a minimum of 10 seconds.

True, but I’m sure the balancing idea behind a weaker autoattack for the GS was that Maul is the balancing factor (Swoop is good damage as well. everything actually does pretty decent damage except 5 as a utility and the auto).

Also, if GS gets replaced with SB, with both my my ideas, we’re either right back to SB S/D and SB Axe/Dagger and will have come full circle hahaha.

Axe/Dagger and GS in my mind should function like a hybrid damage medi guard does to a certain degree, and least from the weapon set (they won’t nearly do the same thing). But in one set, you have your unreliable but necessary ranged weapon, that can setup a lesser CC and burst (bleed burst) combo, and then you have your greatsword to pop in and spike a low target to to finish them.

I mean, we don’t get a port and it isn’t perfect, but I’ll be testing it and some other things the next few days to see if they work in practice as well as I want them to.

I think you just went full “spiral” on there (instead of “circle”). My preference was Shortbow over Greatsword in a power build due to the fact that Shortbow scales better with Power than Greatsword does. That’s why my current thinking is still on dual bows (Longbow + Shortbow).

Other than that, I’ve been mulling over Axe+Dagger/Bow (not sure short or long). That’d be more for kiting in 1v1s and/or roaming though.

@Chill Builds;

They were my personal favorite and I ran them almost exclusively in PvP until Hydromancy sigils were nerfed and popular classes started running Hoelbrak runes (engis and warriors even run their respective traits to get even less affected by soft CC).

It used to be that on weapon swap, with just runes duration increase, you could land a 4 second chill (same duration as Axe chill). Couple that with the chill F2 bird and Axe 3, plus grenth runes that provide a chance to chill on hit and an AoE chill on heal, and the build was a soft CC output machine (all of this is just chill, I ran it with Axe/Dagger Sword/Torch, so you still had cripples as well).

Which, by the way, @Crapgame; I don’t know why that build you linked isn’t running grenth runes but it really should be.

Regardless, every since hydromancy was reduce to 2 seconds and condition builds are pretty much built to be hard (and soft) countered by the most common builds as much as possible, I haven’t really be a huge fan of trying to make chill builds work again.

They should still be pretty good at dueling, however.

Sebrent.3625:

I think you just went full “spiral” on there (instead of “circle”). My preference was Shortbow over Greatsword in a power build due to the fact that Shortbow scales better with Power than Greatsword does. That’s why my current thinking is still on dual bows (Longbow + Shortbow).

Other than that, I’ve been mulling over Axe+Dagger/Bow (not sure short or long). That’d be more for kiting in 1v1s and/or roaming though.

Are you including using Maul on cooldown on the damage comparison, or just autoattacks?

I’ve now played a lot with both bows and the Axe/Dagger compliment, and the problem is that I can make both work and haven’t really found a glaring difference in performance in either. The biggest thing I notice is SB pressures better, but LB’s better burst potential can do just that and also functionally act as a pressure mechanic as well. With the LB you do become more reliant on the Axe swap for any sort of condition pressure though, which can matter against certain players/builds, where kitten puts pressure in both categories, but doesn’t always feel like it has the “right now” damage you want.

I’m still split on it, it’s a hard call.

When I compared the DPS, I compared non-flanking Shortbow Crossfire against just the full AA chain of Greatsword.

• https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Shortbow-2/first#post4977569

… realized I forget to include MH axe in the comparison <_< … /facepalm.

Despite not including Maul in there, I’m still leaning towards shortbow because how often does a good player let you land a Maul on them? I try to spec to beat the good players. The others just fall down anyways.

@jcbroe – Regarding the runes, I honestly don’t know. I’m not much of a build person and usually pilfer others post then tweak or break based on my play style For example I run a LB with my trapper rune set – lol. Last night I was just trying out a few things such as melee weapon sets and short bow. Sebrent knows since he and I chatted for a bit – I was getting wrecked non stop out in the various bg’s so whatever I was doing wasn’t working – lol. Or I was just having a bad night – which is ok.

The build I linked was one listed in the Perma – Chill post, here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Perma-chill-power-ranger-WvW/first#post4957590

Update;

I’m not liking any of the builds without bows (except Axe/Dagger Sword/Torch, the dueling setup).

The melee build posted is the typical WvW double melee build. But let’s put this in perspective:

I have 5 guard stacks, full ascended berserker armor, full ascended berserker trinkets including backpiece, ascended berserker weapons, power infusions, food, oil, borderland buffs, and it still doesn’t do enough damage.

You can survive, and contribute some moderate damage in a team fight, or win 1v1s, but….. this is not a good PvP build in my eyes. Thieves just plain do it better if we’re talking decaps or if we’re talking unexpected bursts.

Played around with this tonight with great success every game (though all were PUG).

• http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQJATVjEqUzaLLmsQ1agAha5AEAMXgLw9+mDhdBbqA-TJRHwAEuEAAeCAx2f4YZAA

I also had success moving those 6 points to Beastmastery and relying on Signets instead of Survival skills. Quickness and the extra Vigor were nice. People don’t expect a canine to leap instantly on pet swap … Quickness ftw.

I’m growing attached to having piercing arrows. Having 20% reduced cooldown on all 8 of my non-auto weapon skills is excellent given that 3 of them give me a breather against most opponents (stealth, knockback, daze/stun). Factor in the cripple and you’re good.

I’m loving the lifesteal from Vampirism and Sigil of Leeching. Sigil of Doom is to keep my opponents’ sustain down and helps supplement the poison from the shortbow.

I’m going to play around some other days with replacing the Longbow with Axe+Dagger. Of the weapons, the shortbow felt the best to me and I didn’t have to worry about damage from enemies being closer to me. Might also try the Longbow+Shortbow with Berserker amulet like in that 2014 video that had been posted earlier in this thread.

It is nice to be able to swap weapons and your positioning not have to change.
It is also nice to have so many ways to interrupt your opponent’s OODA-loop.
It is far less obvious to your opponents when you’ve swapped weapons when both your weapon sets are bows.

Try it out. Move some traits around as you’d like.

I think the greatest strength of running non-meta builds is that people don’t know what you’re doing. I would hazard a very strong guess that most PvPers don’t even know ZQ exists.

If the builds get run a lot, I think their weaknesses will pop up. Even if you’ve never played an engi in your life, everyone knows they usually have a condi removal once every ~20 seconds.

Aye, Fluffball. Use a shortbow and gain 3 seconds of quickness and some people think you’re using Rapid Fire ;-)

It doesn’t hurt that I <3 the Krytan skins so both my Longbow and Shortbow are Krytan so only differ in size … and a Norn shortbow is like every non-Norn/-Charr longbow :-p

I wish I recorded some of it as I had just finished killing a Mesmer when another Ranger jumped me while I was stomping. They initiated with Rapid Fire. I:

• Interrupted the Rapid Fire with Concussion Shot as I ran towards them.
• Poison Volley’d
• Krytan Immob Howl
• Point Blank Shot
• Entangle
• Swap Pet
• Rapid Fire (3 Might + Quickness from Pet Swap … Fury from Weapon Swap)
• Wolf Knockdown

<3 Ranger CC … and I still had Wolf’s fear :-)

I went to bed last night feeling that the SotF version was probably the strongest given that I had more condition removals, more stunbreakers, both more often, entangle more often, and some additional damage from Sharpening Stone.

Sebrent.3625:

Played around with this tonight with great success every game (though all were PUG).

• http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQJATVjEqUzaLLmsQ1agAha5AEAMXgLw9+mDhdBbqA-TJRHwAEuEAAeCAx2f4YZAA

I wonder how something like this would work in WvW. I do run SB/LB from time to time on my trapper build. Not sure if I could give up trap runes though but I think your build could work. Even replacing runes to something more specific.

Wonder how krait would work or even traveler runes. Mix with prickly pear pie food which is +40 condition duration and 33% chance to steal life on crit it may work. That would leave some more wiggle room with sigils to do other things.