Guild Wars 2

To start, this is regarding PvE dungeons and fractals.

Frost Spirit’s cooldown has been nerfed from 20 seconds to 30 seconds. In exchange, we get a 5% more chance to activate, and 35% has been made baseline.

The 35% made baseline is not that great of deal. Presumably, it is to open up other options so that PvE Rangers do not need to take Nature Magic, or take other options in Nature Magic. However, we still are forced to take Nature Magic because that’s where Fortifying Bond is. Fortifying bond with 25 stacks of might is at least a 25% damage increase whenever your pet attacks. It’s huge. It also transfers Fury, and now, possibly quickness.

So the trait that we would have taken gets replaced with the new Bountiful Hunter, and we have a toss up still for grandmaster. The 35% baseline doesn’t really change much regarding our builds.

As a result, we don’t get that much benefit from the deal. 5% greater chance translates to .5% effective damage. Tiny.

Regarding the the ability to kill the spirit by using the active. We already could kill our Frost Spirit on demand by swapping it with another skill and then back. Killing them when the active is used is a lot worse for us, as it hastens the 30 second downtime if we accidentally use it in battle.

As for the cooldown itself, it’s 50% longer. That is an insanely large change. Can you imagine what the response would be if warrior banners suddenly got a 50% longer cooldown?

The 10 extra seconds you have to wait between summons means that when the spirit dies in a boss battle for instance, that’s 10 more seconds where the spirit’s buff is unavailable. When running from mob pack to mob pack, that’s fewer mob packs where the spirit is available for use.

This is a huge nerf to the already shaky viability of Ranger in PvE, and I hope that some consideration can be taken regarding this issue.

Thanks.

FS has a 1000 radius, it should never die in a boss fight if you place it properly.

75% proc chance is baseline now, not 35%, there are no traits to improve the chance.

10s additional CD is nothing really, although, I can’t see why they needed to increase it. It is really not needed at all for the other fights except bosses and certain places. I don’t see the increased CD as a problem, but it still makes no sense to do it.

Overall, its a great buff imo as you do not need to take NM at all for the spirits.

Why do our buffs always come packaged with a slight nerf? What’s the reasoning behind that extra 10s cooldown?

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

FS has a 1000 radius, it should never die in a boss fight if you place it properly.

75% proc chance is baseline now, not 35%, there are no traits to improve the chance.

10s additional CD is nothing really, although, I can’t see why they needed to increase it. It is really not needed at all for the other fights except bosses and certain places. I don’t see the increased CD as a problem, but it still makes no sense to do it.

Overall, its a great buff imo as you do not need to take NM at all for the spirits.

Sure, but we still have to go Nature Magic anyway. Fortifying bond is just too good. Bountiful Hunter is decent too, and they add up to be better than the buffs in the dedicated pet tree (for dungeon/fractal groups, that is. Single player, beastmaster might be even or better.). So while the buff is nice, the 5% extra chance is absolutely minimal (.5% effective damage boost- if you dont’ have any might, that ends up being less than half a might stack’s worth of damage), and it doesn’t really open up other options.

And while it’s not “necessary” for all the fights, it definitely helps.

For example, in the Molten Weapon Facility fractal on 50, with the current cooldown, you can readily summon the Frost Spirit at least every room of mobs. With 30 seconds, it’ll end up being every other room- but you’ll want to make sure you have it for earth eles or oozes that need to be taken down fast, and then it’s up again for the mobs at the end of the hall.

But yeah, I’m glad we agree that it doesn’t make sense for them to nerf the cooldown. It’s a very very strange decision. I’m wondering if the best tactic will be to summon spirit, immediately pop it for the effect, let the 10 second buff stick, and hope you win within that time? That’s still not very effective against bosses, though

And spirits are not going to last against many bosses. Any alpha, fractal bosses, SE bosses, anything with targeted aoes will destroy them, even if you put it far away. In a lot of cases, it will end up similarly to how it is now. it gets put down, lives for a while, then gets nuked and dies, but still has the lingering buff. But it also has that 20 second cooldown. Now it’ll have 30 seconds, so that’s 10 more seconds of downtime against most of the bosses in the game.

No need for the extra CD.

Hell it was an over-nerf when they gave them the 20s CD.

Ltomato.8649:

Sure, but we still have to go Nature Magic anyway. Fortifying bond is just too good.

I used to think so too, but read my post on the NM/BM thread.

It got nerfed due to the strong active abilities of spirits right now. Think about 3 sec aoe daze(6s with MOC) every 20 sec….

I don’t think MOC will increase the daze duration from spirit.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Ltomato.8649:

Sure, but we still have to go Nature Magic anyway. Fortifying bond is just too good.

I used to think so too, but read my post on the NM/BM thread.

Read my post in that thread too. I do very quick napkin math- Fortifying Bond in a group situation completely outclasses whatever Beastmastery can add. Bountiful Hunter also gives your pet bonus damage too. Fortifying bond = 750 power, fury, and quickness for pet.

More toughness isn’t that appealing, isnce the pet AI is going to stand in AoEs still anyway- if you couldn’t keep it alive before, you can’t keep it alive with more toughness. Weakness and blind are nice, but blind has a lot more consistent ways to apply, not to mention you have to go off of damage to take those.

If you want weakness, Nature Magic has the grandmaster trait that gives 6s aoe weakness and 4s protection on you when you are hit, on a 15 sec cd.

Beastmastery could come out on top in solo situations, but in dungeons or any group content, Nature Magic is much better.

Regarding the overpoweredness of the spirit actives- Spirits take a bit to summon, and now die on active use. So if you do try to spam the daze, it’s going to be very predictable and should have plenty of counterplay too.

Ltomato.8649:

completely outclasses

The quickness and access to might from BM on swap, might on crit and might via sword AA quickly builds of the pet’s stacks, in addition to the extra pet stats and Pet’s Prowess. Not to mention the 10 % added bonus damage for your pet whenever you’re above 90 % health. Nature Magic could end up being the better choice, but I somewhat doubt it will “outclass” BM, especially in shorter fights.

In solo situations I’m in no doubt: BM will be better. Whenever you want GS, BM will be better. And whenever your pug group is lacking, BM will probably be better aswell. Besides that, BM promotes swapping pets, which synergizes with Clarion Bond in MM.

DPS is not the reason Rangers are not taken as a “Meta” class, they out DPS a warrior no worries. It is because of the low amount of group utility.

With us being able to bring Frost Spirit, Spotter and have an AoE Blind/Weakness every 4.75s, AND a taunt for pulling the trash mobs close every 15s, we are better by far than the DPS that FB adds, by far.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

DPS is not the reason Rangers are not taken as a “Meta” class, they out DPS a warrior no worries. It is because of the low amount of group utility.

With us being able to bring Frost Spirit, Spotter and have an AoE Blind/Weakness every 4.75s, AND a taunt for pulling the trash mobs close every 15s, we are better by far than the DPS that FB adds, by far.

Add to that the possibility of a reliable group reflect if off-hand axe gets the radius from off-hand training baseline – which it should.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

DPS is not the reason Rangers are not taken as a “Meta” class, they out DPS a warrior no worries. It is because of the low amount of group utility.

With us being able to bring Frost Spirit, Spotter and have an AoE Blind/Weakness every 4.75s, AND a taunt for pulling the trash mobs close every 15s, we are better by far than the DPS that FB adds, by far.

You seem to be the only ones with your 3 other warrior fans that say ranger out DPS the warrior. Mine sure as kittens does not out DPS my warrior with my longbow.

Natfrog.4310:

Mine sure as kittens does not out DPS my warrior with my longbow.

Yeah. You’re definitely broken.

Natfrog.4310:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

DPS is not the reason Rangers are not taken as a “Meta” class, they out DPS a warrior no worries. It is because of the low amount of group utility.

With us being able to bring Frost Spirit, Spotter and have an AoE Blind/Weakness every 4.75s, AND a taunt for pulling the trash mobs close every 15s, we are better by far than the DPS that FB adds, by far.

You seem to be the only ones with your 3 other warrior fans that say ranger out DPS the warrior. Mine sure as kittens does not out DPS my warrior with my longbow.

LB to LB, sure ours beats theirs hands down. Total DPS to total DPS, we beat them. Ranger LB to War GS, war wins because its a stupid irrelevant comparison.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

a stupid irrelevant comparison.

I think it’s safe to conclude that he doesn’t get why that is..

On topic with Spirits, does anyone know if the buffs provided by Nature’s Vengeance will be persistent after a Spirit dies? Similar to how the passive buffs linger.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Natfrog.4310:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

DPS is not the reason Rangers are not taken as a “Meta” class, they out DPS a warrior no worries. It is because of the low amount of group utility.

With us being able to bring Frost Spirit, Spotter and have an AoE Blind/Weakness every 4.75s, AND a taunt for pulling the trash mobs close every 15s, we are better by far than the DPS that FB adds, by far.

You seem to be the only ones with your 3 other warrior fans that say ranger out DPS the warrior. Mine sure as kittens does not out DPS my warrior with my longbow.

LB to LB, sure ours beats theirs hands down. Total DPS to total DPS, we beat them. Ranger LB to War GS, war wins because its a stupid irrelevant comparison.

How does winning in DPS campairing the weapon of choices become irrelevant? Are you going to throw in a mele weapon? 2h damage dealing to 2h damage dealing! The longbow is the specialty of the ranger. Anets description not mine. For any other weapon to outclass it makes the class broken. I do not care that you cannot read the class description and figure out something is wrong.

Natfrog.4310:

Are you going to throw in a mele weapon?

I read that and instantly thought of how the Revenant uses 2-handed Hammers LOL

Not trying to pose an argument, by the way. Cheers!

Wondrouswall.7169:

On topic with Spirits, does anyone know if the buffs provided by Nature’s Vengeance will be persistent after a Spirit dies? Similar to how the passive buffs linger.

I doubt it mate, the duration is only 1/3s so that is not much of a linger really. I PMd Josh about what boons the spirits are getting with NV though, we shall see if I get one back with an answer.

Wouldn’t it be better to PM CalmonHuang since he’s the dev for Ranger (and Engie)?

Well, Josh actually posted on our forum with Ranger changes…