I believe my own data.
That’s why I was so eager to hop in onto the test fest.
Remember me saying that?
What data? I trust you aren’t going solely off of your own perception, after all. This game throws even more numbers at you than most MMOs, and subjective appearance of dps isn’t particularly reliable even then- most people believe themselves to be doing well, even if they aren’t. And support is kitten near impossible to measure except through hard data (by measuring the difference between dps when you are gone entirely and when you are present).
I believe you when you say you want to test things – what I’m questioning is your methods. This doesn’t specifically mean your methods are wrong! But when you aren’t going into what they are, I can hardly be expected to trust in them
You’re shading yourself with your past few replies. I had literally no problem going to check who was right or not. You, however, only mentioned data that you didn’t provide.
I asked if there were parsers for this game at all. I’ve also said, if there aren’t parsers for this game, then unfortunately theorycrafting is what you have to rely on – you use the best tools available to you, not what you could theoretically have. But there’s a reason I’m asking for data, and not maths; it’s usually available.
I have no stance on Ghost’s statement – I don’t have a strong stance on ANY dps proclamation in this game. Any whatsoever – I assume at least rough measures have been taken to figure out what works best by the community (Time to kill for a team is always accessible without external tools), but even that is something I only take with some skepticism, not the least of which because so much is taken as gospel.
I always use my own head and I keep it open to any valid ideas. If you have no proof to support validity of your data, the data is nothing more than a pure speculation or assumption.
Facepalm
Data /can’t/ be speculation or assumption. IT can be misleading, or it can be less than helpful (For instance, data on dps obtained through target dummies or open world mobs is generally noise outside of very specific contexts), but it can’t be speculation or assumption – it is the opposite of those things, because it is the actual result of a test (whether the test is useful is a different matter, but for the purpose of MMO DPS, doubting the usefulness of a test on dps in an actual encounter is usually odd. Not always, but usually). The theorycrafting people seem to rely on is speculation or assumption. It’s an assumption of maximum dps in an optimal environment. That’s not actually useless – I’ve seen plenty of builds, or rotations, and similar get worked out in theorycrafting, and then applied to actual play as solid improvements over the current iterations thereof. But it’s not data, in and of itself.
Believing blindly in this world of lies is a double edged weapon. Everything you see around you is a lie in half. People lie to each other without even knowing they do.
In this case it’s either the person who claimed Condi LB to be the highest DPS weapon or the one that cut him down with anti-statement.
You can actually both be ‘lying to yourselves! It’s not that simple. Only one of you can be CORRECT, because this is an absolute statement that requires someone to be on top, but that doesn’t mean you’re correct for the reasons you think you are or that you professed.
I, for example had a test where my GS dps was doing ~5% less damage than the sword on stationary targets. ~15% more DPS than sword in practice. Do you want data? I can support my statements.
What do you have, exactly? I know the game provides some statistics in sPvP, but sPvP is probably the place I’d least ask for it outside of maybe Stronghold. It isn’t a controlled environment at all, and it doesn’t actually measure dps – nor should it, because burst damage is important in every PvP mode I’ve seen in nearly every directly competitive game, MMO or not. A sustained win rate in ranked is more than sufficient to prove the validity of a build (In my view, which is subject to change).
I mean, are you soloing bosses and using time-to-kill? Because that works surprisingly beautifully for a personal dps measure, but such a build probably needs survivability that one might not need in a team.
Your data does not mean anything unless people blindly believe the numbers without knowing what they mean. That’s not how science but life works.
The numbers represent the actual dps done, preferably in live fire conditions. You’re right, they don’t mean anything unless people understand them. That’s why you explain what you’re putting up, and why the community as a whole tries to learn what it’s looking at. Other people provide their numbers, and you work communally from there to try to work out the best solutions. It’s not like this kitten hasn’t been done before – it’s ultimately what raiders do when they talk shop to each other, when they aren’t titanic tools or wrapped up in drama or similar.
On the downside, it can make a game more stale, but it’s not like GW2 hasn’t had that problem in its PvE – it’s the exact reason I stopped playing.
- I said videos, OR DATA, but I guess that because I didn’t say Parser, It was ignored so you can keep ranting about something Anet has stated thousands of times they do not want in this game?
Blank stare
I’ve found combat log parsers for GW2. Nearly every MMO in the history of ever has said ’don’t use them’. How much they choose to enforce it varies wildly, but this single statement is nigh-eternal.
I know what you are saying by Parser, you are talking about the Advanced Combat Tracker (why you are abbreviating it to parser which means something entirely different (similar in programming and even language terms, but still different)
…do you know what words mean? The abbreviation for that particular parser is ACT (Which is itself also an acronym). ‘Parser’ is using the generic term instead of the specific, not an ‘abbreviation’, because there are more parsers than there are MMOs and I wouldn’t dream of asking for a specific one I’m reasonably confident doesn’t have a plug in for the game I’m on. Comparing it to using SCH for Scholar is pretty hilarious – it’s the inverse! SCH is ensuring I use the specific term, not the generic, because the generic could easily be read as something entirely different. Here, I use the generic, because there is little room for confusion amongst people with any knowledge of MMOs at all (Unlike with Scholar, which even has perfectly valid GW2 intepretations, putting aside the rest of MMOs in perpetuity).
Whether it’s accurate to programming in the general, I don’t know or really care about – certainly, I’ve known multiple tech professionals refer to them as parsers, but then, the term has a particular meaning in MMO communities that may well be different from its use in tech generically. Words do that. Welcome to language, enjoy your stay.
instead of just outright saying Combat Tracker, I have no idea, especially since its not common to these forums. It might be related to the subchorionic hematoma (SCH) you main in that other game or something. I don’t know.)
…no, it’s related to the fact that unlike you, I have broad experience in MMOs. ACT is A parser. But parsers are parsers – there are plenty, and they’re a concept we’ve dealt with for more then a decade, across many MMOs. Each game, inevitably, has its own parsers or plug-ins to existing parsers, because they are made and maintained by the playerbase. Why would I expect there to be an ACT version for GW2? Plenty of MMOs, many more popular, don’t have an ACT version in particular.
For those few of you who don’t know, this program is also called MMORPG Log Parser
That’s a statement of what it is, not an alternate name. You are almost adorable.
and has been around since before World of Warcraft, and it tracks pretty much anything you could ever want from damage and pretty much everything else combat related. It was originally used for Everquest 2, but there are hundreds of plug-ins that allow its use with many other games.
Anet has said no to these types of things thousands of times, and actively works to disable them whenever a new one pops up. so, here are your options for data, from most useful to least useful…
Yeah, yeah, pretty much every company has said ‘no’ since the creation of the MMO. Most of them don’t work too hard at it, but only (to my knowledge) WoW has opened its arms and welcomed community tools – a good decision I was hoping to see replicated elsewhere, because WoW did it with the caveat that the game can’t be automated, and they’d stomp automating tools and their users flat (nfc how well they succeeded there).
This notwithstanding that from what I can tell, ANet’s policy is against reading game data – combat log parsers don’t do that – they read the combat log already available to players, and document it with accuracy humans don’t really have.
1) Videos
2) Screenshots of chat logs
3) Math for theoretically perfect scenarios
4) People who actually play the game
You’re not going to get data any other way. If you don’t trust what is said on these forums, go test it for yourself, go experience it for yourself, and even though you don’t like playing that card, come back and join us in laughing at that guy’s statement. Either way. This discussion was over before you even started posting.
…the only one ‘laughing’, was you. The other responses pointedly asked for maths to support his statement, which means they took it seriously (and prompted my question as to why maths were acceptable). Also, calling a discussion ‘over’ when you’re actively participating in it is pretty laughable!
