Guild Wars 2

Nice thread so far.

Sebrent.3625:

Traits: Condition Removal from Dodge

• Ranger: 30 Trait Points, Major Grandmaster Trait, Evasive Purity - Dodging removes blind and poison from you.
• Elementalist: 20 Trait Points, Major Master Trait, Stop Drop and Roll - Dodge rolling removes burning and chilled.
• Thief: 20 Trait Points, Major Master Trait, Fleet of Foot - Dodging removes cripple and weakness from you.

I would add “30 Trait Points, Major Grandmaster Trait, Evasive Arcana - Dodging in Water Attunement removes one condition” to the elementalist part.

Blackhat.4016:

Nice thread so far.

Sebrent.3625:

Traits: Condition Removal from Dodge

• Ranger: 30 Trait Points, Major Grandmaster Trait, Evasive Purity - Dodging removes blind and poison from you.
• Elementalist: 20 Trait Points, Major Master Trait, Stop Drop and Roll - Dodge rolling removes burning and chilled.
• Thief: 20 Trait Points, Major Master Trait, Fleet of Foot - Dodging removes cripple and weakness from you.

I would add “30 Trait Points, Major Grandmaster Trait, Evasive Arcana - Dodging in Water Attunement removes one condition” to the elementalist part.

I thought about that one, but it seems like such a class exclusive trait that I didn’t want to add it. If others think it should though, then I’ll add it.

I’ve been complaining about Crackshot since the Beta. If warrior is good where they are, why would it be unbalanced to merge quick draw and piercing for rangers?

That, over emphasis of pet damage, and the signet of stone are the epitome of what’s wrong with this class: that is having to put in more to get less in return.

Aridia.3042:

I’ve been complaining about Crackshot since the Beta. If warrior is good where they are, why would it be unbalanced to merge quick draw and piercing for rangers?

That, over emphasis of pet damage, and the signet of stone are the epitome of what’s wrong with this class: that is having to put in more to get less in return.

That is one of the reasons I wanted to start this thread, Aridia. If you’re passionate about this, please help us expand this list :-)

ItIsFinished.9462:

As a Ranger who only uses Longbow in certain situations(Zergs and Jumping Puzzles only). I don’t see the need to have Quick Draw traited. So now I see the comparison as this:

Traits: Shots Pierce

• Ranger Shortbow: 20 trait points and 1 Major Master Trait
  • 20 pts in Marksmanship
  • Piercing Arrows - All arrow attacks pierce targets.
• Engineer Pistol: 30 trait points, 1 Major Grandmaster Trait
  • 30 pts in Firearms
  • Coated Bullets - Pistol shots pierce.
• Warrior Rifle:20 trait points, 1 Major Master Trait
  • 20 pts in Arms
  • Crack Shot - Rifle and harpoon gun shots pierce. Rifle and harpoon gun skills recharge 20% faster.

Basically, in this scenario, the Ranger doesn’t get the short end of the stick IMHO.

You said that wrong though. This is the correct version if you only look at piercing shots:

Traits: Shots Pierce

• Ranger Shortbow: 20 trait points and 1 Major Master Trait
  • 20 pts in Marksmanship
  • Piercing Arrows - All arrow attacks pierce targets.
• Engineer Pistol: 30 trait points, 1 Major Grandmaster Trait
  • 30 pts in Firearms
  • Hair Trigger - Rifle, pistol, and harpoon gun skills recharge 20% faster.
  • Coated Bullets - Pistol shots pierce.
• Warrior Rifle:20 trait points, 1 Major Master Trait
  • 20 pts in Arms
  • Crack Shot - Rifle and harpoon gun shots pierce. Rifle and harpoon gun skills recharge 20% faster.

The engineer might need 10 more points to get piercing shots, but he can have the 20% cooldown reduction for the same amount of trait points, because it’s in the same trait line. For the Ranger to get that 20% reduction he has to spend 20 extra trait points.

I would propose to make the Ranger longbow have 1500 range by default. Then the Ranger still has to spend 40 points to get piercing arrows and 20% cooldown reduction, but at least it’s not 50 points to get all the longbow traits.

Sebrent.3625:

You can always contribute ideas, feedback, bugs, discrepancies, etc. Been trying to make sure there are platforms for those :-)

We still have several skills/traits not on the list here, for example ;-)

How about Projectile deflection/destruction?

I’ve not use Axe off-hand much but for comparison’s sake…

Ranger:

• Whirling Defense/Swirling Strike 5/2 seconds of reflection in an area, cannot move with Whirling defense. Strikes foe each hit in melee with vulnerability. Whirl Finisher
• Counterattack/strike blocks projectiles for yourself only 3seconds
• Might be some pets that reflect/destroy projectiles.

Guardian:

• lolz

Mesmer:

• lololz

Engineer(I don’t know much about this profession):

• has some options I’ve heard for creating walls of reflection and smoke fields.

Warrior:

• Counterblow/Riposte/Parry can block an attack during its channel while Shield Stance can block all attacks during its channel. For self only.
• Missile Deflection Turns all blocks into reflection for the warrior.

Elementalist:

• Arcane Shield blocks 3 attacks for self only.
• Magnetic Aura Reflects all projectiles for 5 seconds for self only. Is an aura so is affected by aura traits.
• Magnetic Wave Reflects all projectiles for 3 seconds for self only.
• Swirling Winds Destroys projectiles in a wide area.

IMO, when it comes to PvE content, this becomes just as important as damage when you’re trying to support a group. Poor old Necromancers really get burned having none of this. It leaves Warriors rather dependent as their blocks aren’t that good but it’s only for themselves and when it comes to skills like this, you need to protect an area.

Ranger….should be able to move while using Whirling defense and perhaps have the skill recharge faster and/or give a pet some kind of protection type skill to add to the ranger’s cache of utility like the more desired professions.

I would second the idea to make LB have 1500 by default. After all its the longbow that allows an archer to shoot far.

I like that idea, Holland. It’d make me less kitten off during siege defenses too when we don’t have much siege and my current spec doesn’t have 20+ in marks.

Holland.9351:

ItIsFinished.9462:

As a Ranger who only uses Longbow in certain situations(Zergs and Jumping Puzzles only). I don’t see the need to have Quick Draw traited. So now I see the comparison as this:

Traits: Shots Pierce

• Ranger Shortbow: 20 trait points and 1 Major Master Trait
  • 20 pts in Marksmanship
  • Piercing Arrows - All arrow attacks pierce targets.
• Engineer Pistol: 30 trait points, 1 Major Grandmaster Trait
  • 30 pts in Firearms
  • Coated Bullets - Pistol shots pierce.
• Warrior Rifle:20 trait points, 1 Major Master Trait
  • 20 pts in Arms
  • Crack Shot - Rifle and harpoon gun shots pierce. Rifle and harpoon gun skills recharge 20% faster.

Basically, in this scenario, the Ranger doesn’t get the short end of the stick IMHO.

You said that wrong though. This is the correct version if you only look at piercing shots:

Traits: Shots Pierce

• Ranger Shortbow: 20 trait points and 1 Major Master Trait
  • 20 pts in Marksmanship
  • Piercing Arrows - All arrow attacks pierce targets.
• Engineer Pistol: 30 trait points, 1 Major Grandmaster Trait
  • 30 pts in Firearms
  • Hair Trigger - Rifle, pistol, and harpoon gun skills recharge 20% faster.
  • Coated Bullets - Pistol shots pierce.
• Warrior Rifle:20 trait points, 1 Major Master Trait
  • 20 pts in Arms
  • Crack Shot - Rifle and harpoon gun shots pierce. Rifle and harpoon gun skills recharge 20% faster.

The engineer might need 10 more points to get piercing shots, but he can have the 20% cooldown reduction for the same amount of trait points, because it’s in the same trait line. For the Ranger to get that 20% reduction he has to spend 20 extra trait points.

I would propose to make the Ranger longbow have 1500 range by default. Then the Ranger still has to spend 40 points to get piercing arrows and 20% cooldown reduction, but at least it’s not 50 points to get all the longbow traits.

Thanks for pointing that out. I didn’t realize they were in the same trait line. In that case the Ranger gets the short end of the stick.

Thought this was interesting…

Traits: +Damage with full Endurance

• Ranger: 10 Trait Points – Steady Focus - Damage increases by 10% when endurance is full.
• Elementalist: 25 Trait Points, Enduring Damage - Damage increases by 10% when endurance is full.
• Engineer: 25 Trait Points, Enduring Damage - Damage increases by 10% when endurance is full.

ItIsFinished.9462:

Thought this was interesting…

Traits: +Damage with full Endurance

• Ranger: 10 Trait Points – Steady Focus - Damage increases by 10% when endurance is full.
• Elementalist: 25 Trait Points, Enduring Damage - Damage increases by 10% when endurance is full.
• Engineer: 25 Trait Points, Enduring Damage - Damage increases by 10% when endurance is full.

Does the ranger version affect the pet? I would guess not because the pet doesnt dodge and would therefore have no need of an endurance stat and thus no way to determine if it is full and thus no benefit.

If so you still work out better than the other two mentioned classes, but you could look at it as a 6% dmg increase when endurance is full. (Using the commonly quoted 60/40 ranger/pet damage split)

I don’t really get the point of this thread and a lot of the stuff said is really misleading. It is useless to compare certain things cross-class because balancing in terms of traits is done in the context of the mechanics, weapons, skills and stats of the class.

It just seems like you guys are nitpicking certain things other classes have better than the ranger, when in reality, you can also nitpick other traits that the ranger has better than other classes.

Like for example, lets compare Ranger utility heals to other classes heals. I am sure you will find that Ranger utility heals are better than most classes. 50% endurance regeneration with very little investment, only other class that really comes close to that is one of the thief traits that returns endurance. Look at invulnerability skills like Protect me, Elixir S, Endure Pain, Renewed Focus.

You need to look at the class holistically, in terms of what the devs intended the class to do, what roles can they fulfill, not in the cross-class comparison of traits and then balancing a class like that. That is just stupid. The answer to balance isn’t as much nerf as opposed to “is it a well designed class overall, are mechanics and designs of the class working as intended, does it offer build diversity”. That needs to be the overall goal, people can get so into the nitty-gritty that they fail to see the bigger picture.

People are under the logic that well “oh, warriors have both cooldown and piercing in one trait, then rangers should get that too”. While I can see the devs looking into that, but using that logic for balance is quite flawed. It is like saying, well thieves have stealth, so should Guardians and Necros. It works both ways, Rangers have things other classes wish they had and vice versa. You can’t have everything other classes have, welcome to the real world, some traits require bigger investments than others, get over it. Classes have traits and skills that other classes would kill to have.

killahmayne.9518:

I don’t really get the point of this thread and a lot of the stuff said is really misleading. It is useless to compare certain things cross-class because balancing in terms of traits is done in the context of the mechanics, weapons, skills and stats of the class.

I wouldn’t say it’s wholly useless but yes, I think you’re right. People should be looking at the whole and not specific portions out of context but on the other hand, it might highlight general opportunity cost and if it’s valued or not. How much do other players value certain effects over others? I’m sure there are a lot of elementalists who don’t value Enduring Damage enough to to dip that deeply into Earth Magic unless they are going for a tanky/condition build where 10% damage isn’t going to return much. But how much is Steady Focus valued in its spot in Marksmanship as a 10 point trait? Personally, I don’t bother with the skill myself since I don’t do much damage in the first place and I’d rather have traits that affect the pet instead of myself.

If it was 10% damage to me while my endurance was full and 10% damage to the pet while my endurance wasn’t full, I’d take it hands down

At least where traits are concerned I think a lot of the problem is that originally the traits were not tiered and as such some profession where able to get effect that were deemed imbalanced. However looking at the ranger traits in general the profession’s traits are not quite on par with those of other profession within the current tier system.

Sebrent.3625:

Blackhat.4016:

Nice thread so far.

Sebrent.3625:

Traits: Condition Removal from Dodge

• Ranger: 30 Trait Points, Major Grandmaster Trait, Evasive Purity - Dodging removes blind and poison from you.
• Elementalist: 20 Trait Points, Major Master Trait, Stop Drop and Roll - Dodge rolling removes burning and chilled.
• Thief: 20 Trait Points, Major Master Trait, Fleet of Foot - Dodging removes cripple and weakness from you.

I would add “30 Trait Points, Major Grandmaster Trait, Evasive Arcana - Dodging in Water Attunement removes one condition” to the elementalist part.

I thought about that one, but it seems like such a class exclusive trait that I didn’t want to add it. If others think it should though, then I’ll add it.

I noticed it wasn’t included as well and was going to recommend its inclusion. It’s an AoE cleanse on dodge which is so powerful that I think it deserves a mention. It should also be mentioned in the healing category when that starts to be compiled.

Right now, I think the thread is lacking a good bit of content and that makes it less useful than other threads.

Once we have more information, I think it will be easier to see what we have that’s good/bad when compared to others. That can then be used to better look at the class holistically by helping answer the question “what are we better at than others”.

It can also be useful for the ArenaNet devs as a form of feedback from the community to them. They are silently watching these threads and clean, constructive feedback is much more useful than the large amount of “negative nancy” threads that the Ranger forum has encountered.

I’m currently in the process of adding Evasive Arcana to the one list and adding the endurance +damage list. Will edit this post or post another once those have been added.

Please be checking the list to make sure I have not made errors. I’m human so it’s inevitable ;-)

Done adding. Please check for correctness.

I still think Evasive Arcana is in it’s own league. It has other effects outside of Cleansing Wave. If you just compared Cleansing Wave, it will only remove 1 condition (though from allies too) and provides a heal. The other traits have the potential to remove 0 to 2 conditions … just specific ones.

Most classes have an equivalent to “Hide in Plain Sight”- Applies camouflage when you are dazed, knocked down, launched, pushed back, or stunned. This effect cannot trigger more than once every 30 seconds. Some of the equivalent skills are equally poor. The warrior version is the Last Stand master trait that applies balanced stance, i.e. 8 seconds of stability and a stun breaker, no more than once every 90 seconds.