Rangers there weakness destroys class balance
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This effects EVERYONE so not quite sure why you mention only Ranger for.
This effects EVERYONE so not quite sure why you mention only Ranger for.
Because there the only class without a role in pvp what so ever and since the conception of MMO’s this has been there purpose. This is the only game that made a class called a Ranger and gave them no track or stealth reveal.
It’s like having a thief with no stealth.
Lots of thiefs play without stealth, most of the condition ones use shaman’s amulets and signet of malice, including me.
Also, the Ranger seems more like a Wilderness Traveler/Druid then the stereotypical WoW Hunter to me.
Dont get me wrong though, i woundt mind if it they gave Rangers things like flares to reveal stealthers or improved stealth detection, it just doesnt seem to fit with the ranger.
Lots of thiefs play without stealth, most of the condition ones use shaman’s amulets and signet of malice, including me.
Also, the Ranger seems more like a Wilderness Traveler/Druid then the stereotypical WoW Hunter to me.
Dont get me wrong though, i woundt mind if it they gave Rangers things like flares to reveal stealthers or improved stealth detection, it just doesnt seem to fit with the ranger.
Lot’s of thieves play without stealth???
Who said anything about WoW there is NO MMO that has stealth that didn’t give Ranger/Scout/Hunter class the ability to reveal and tell me what role ranger has in current pvp because they are the least represented class in tpvp or spvp atm.
Any class should be able to find a stealth class as long they have a flash light, flare or campfire.
Pineapples
To my own observation yes, ive met more condition thiefs in spvp and tpvp since the november pvp update then backstab thiefs, if there where any thiefs at all in the tourny.
Right now the ranger seems to me like a Ranged / Support Dps character, wich isent really needed in tpvp and spvp as you stated.
I don’t see how stealth tracking would really help the ranger. Does letting him screw up certain builds on two classes really give him a role worth bringing him in? Wouldn’t it make more sense to bring him up to a level comparable to all other classes rather than make him cheese a minority?
Rangers are overpowered now.
Worst of all this has directly impacted the game in pvp as now stealth has no hard counter.
As a warrior fighting someone about to stealth, swinging my greatsword a few times in the direction they were headed and then waiting for their corpse to unstealth has worked out pretty well so far.
I understand why all of you thieves that are posting would oppose this but I’m sorry a ranger scout class without reveal or track is like having a thief without stealth you can’t name me any MMO that doesn’t have ranger/scout/hunter as a counter to stealth mechanics.
And I know you’ll deny stealth being overpowered but it is, and it needs a counter and rangers need a role in pvp there’s no way to bring them in line without having another class that can do that role better.
You’d freak out if they removed stealth from your class but currently rangers are the least tpvp and spvp class played in the game. This would give them a role in tpvp to stop roamer thieves and protect group mates from stealthers. You say learn to dodge when players complain about dieing in 3 seconds well learn to dodge when your marked.
There is no point to have a Ranger class without track or reveal might as well call them a marksmen then because it’s as silly as having a thief without stealth. You’d have to be out of your mind crazy liar to say that this class has a purpose without those two abilities. It’s silly you know it is but for some reason the people that post on these forums seem to live in some crazy world that breaks all the rules of previous MMO’s why not make a stealthing warrior because it makes about that much sense. And Currently a warrior with Rifle is better than any ranger build in the game.
(edited by Fellknight.4820)
I understand why all of you thieves that are posting would oppose this but I’m sorry a ranger scout class without reveal or track is like having a thief without stealth you can’t name me any MMO that doesn’t have ranger/scout/hunter as a counter to stealth mechanics.
And I know you’ll deny stealth being overpowered but it is, and it needs a counter and rangers need a role in pvp there’s no way to bring them in line without having another class that can do that role better.
You’d freak out if they removed stealth from your class but currently rangers are the least tpvp and spvp class played in the game. This would give them a role in tpvp to stop roamer thieves and protect group mates from stealthers. You say learn to dodge when players complain about dieing in 3 seconds well learn to dodge when your marked.
There is no point to have a Ranger class without track or reveal might as well call them a marksmen then because it’s as silly as having a thief without stealth. You’d have to be out of your mind crazy liar to say that this class has a purpose without those two abilities. It’s silly you know it is but for some reason the people that post on these forums seem to live in some crazy world that breaks all the rules of previous MMO’s why not make a stealthing warrior because it makes about that much sense. And Currently a warrior with Rifle is better than any ranger build in the game.
As a thief, I’m more concerned that giving this kind of ability to the ranger will shoehorn him into being useless permanently.
It creates a role that requires the thief’s existence to be useful, and the thief to be otherwise destroying other classes to be meaningful enough to justify a slot in the team to protect against thieves (If thieves aren’t wrecking up other classes, then you’re not going to waste a slot on a class who can only counter them)
Also, imagine what would happen if it went through, and now having a ranger in the battle made thieves useless. You see the enemy has a ranger on their team in tPvP? All thieves suddenly switch to another class. Now the enemy rangers see there are no thieves, and realize they’d be better off as something else, and switch to. End result is no thieves, and no rangers because thieves won’t by fielded against rangers, and rangers won’t be fielded without thieves.
This is why having a single class dedicated to countering another single class is bad, and should never happen.
I understand why all of you thieves that are posting would oppose this but I’m sorry a ranger scout class without reveal or track is like having a thief without stealth you can’t name me any MMO that doesn’t have ranger/scout/hunter as a counter to stealth mechanics.
And I know you’ll deny stealth being overpowered but it is, and it needs a counter and rangers need a role in pvp there’s no way to bring them in line without having another class that can do that role better.
You’d freak out if they removed stealth from your class but currently rangers are the least tpvp and spvp class played in the game. This would give them a role in tpvp to stop roamer thieves and protect group mates from stealthers. You say learn to dodge when players complain about dieing in 3 seconds well learn to dodge when your marked.
There is no point to have a Ranger class without track or reveal might as well call them a marksmen then because it’s as silly as having a thief without stealth. You’d have to be out of your mind crazy liar to say that this class has a purpose without those two abilities. It’s silly you know it is but for some reason the people that post on these forums seem to live in some crazy world that breaks all the rules of previous MMO’s why not make a stealthing warrior because it makes about that much sense. And Currently a warrior with Rifle is better than any ranger build in the game.
As a thief, I’m more concerned that giving this kind of ability to the ranger will shoehorn him into being useless permanently.
It creates a role that requires the thief’s existence to be useful, and the thief to be otherwise destroying other classes to be meaningful enough to justify a slot in the team to protect against thieves (If thieves aren’t wrecking up other classes, then you’re not going to waste a slot on a class who can only counter them)
Also, imagine what would happen if it went through, and now having a ranger in the battle made thieves useless. You see the enemy has a ranger on their team in tPvP? All thieves suddenly switch to another class. Now the enemy rangers see there are no thieves, and realize they’d be better off as something else, and switch to. End result is no thieves, and no rangers because thieves won’t by fielded against rangers, and rangers won’t be fielded without thieves.
This is why having a single class dedicated to countering another single class is bad, and should never happen.
As a thief I think your opinion is biased and invalid, sooo because hunters could mark in WoW no one played Rogues cmon that’s just silly. So because Scout could reveal in Shadowbane no one played assassins, I could go on all day with this. Come on this is the most flimsy arguement I’ve ever heard to keep a class from doing what it was designed to do traditionally.
I think that having reveal or track mechanic would indeed lower thieves representation in pvp which needs to be done because currently it’s at like 70% which shows a huge problem right there. Would it stop skilled thieves no way, but the mindless horde of thieves that rely on the broken mechanics of stealth that currently have no counter absolutely.
Because one class could mark reveal a thief with ground drop or track a thief in small radius would make them worthless nope there has shown no evidence of this in any MMO ever made to date. It has shown that without this thieves population is absolutely out of control and bustling to the brim.
Because one class could mark reveal a thief with ground drop or track a thief in small radius would make them worthless nope there has shown no evidence of this in any MMO ever made to date. It has shown that without this thieves population is absolutely out of control and bustling to the brim.
Read my post again.
Having the ranger being dedicated to screwing over thieves would mean thieves would switch to another class when they see a ranger so they don’t need to deal with a hard counter.
With all thieves switching away when they see a ranger, the ranger himself loses his role.
In otherwords,
some thieves, some rangers = thieves useless, and thus switch class
no thieves, some rangers = rangers useless, and thus switch class creating
no thieves, no rangers = what no one wants
the other possible situation is
some thieves, no rangers where thieves will thrive.
Again, note that rangers on the battlefield would have to be absolutely necessary to defeat thieves, because no one is going to use one of five slots to counter one of eight classes otherwise. It would also have to be such a dramatic dominating of the thief to make up for the ranger’s lack of ability against every other class.
Your suggestion gives rangers a role that is useless against anyone who knows the metagame, and can act accordingly. It will hurt rangers more than thieves.
personally i think the whole concept of treating stealth as invisibility in mainstream MMOs is a crutch for lazy developers.
downed state is bad for PVP
Because one class could mark reveal a thief with ground drop or track a thief in small radius would make them worthless nope there has shown no evidence of this in any MMO ever made to date. It has shown that without this thieves population is absolutely out of control and bustling to the brim.
Read my post again.
Having the ranger being dedicated to screwing over thieves would mean thieves would switch to another class when they see a ranger so they don’t need to deal with a hard counter.
With all thieves switching away when they see a ranger, the ranger himself loses his role.
In otherwords,
some thieves, some rangers = thieves useless, and thus switch class
no thieves, some rangers = rangers useless, and thus switch class creating
no thieves, no rangers = what no one wantsthe other possible situation is
some thieves, no rangers where thieves will thrive.
Again, note that rangers on the battlefield would have to be absolutely necessary to defeat thieves, because no one is going to use one of five slots to counter one of eight classes otherwise. It would also have to be such a dramatic dominating of the thief to make up for the ranger’s lack of ability against every other class.
Your suggestion gives rangers a role that is useless against anyone who knows the metagame, and can act accordingly. It will hurt rangers more than thieves.
And again you can’t give any evidence of a single MMO that Ranger/Scout/Hunters negated the playerbase of stealth classes this is baseless opinion that you cant pull a single game to illustrate that being the case.
Every Overpowered class in history has used the argument that changing the smallest thing or adding something else to another class would absolutely destroy there class and make them unplayable yet after it happened they still remained highly represented.
I think it should be left up to players wether or not they would use the ultility slot. And alot ranger imbalances come from broken traits and nowhere did I say those traits shouldn’t be fixed. I don’t understand why it has to be all or nothing, just because they have track or reveal doesn’t mean there traits shouldn’t also be reworked but even if they were reworked there is no support role for a ranger that couldn’t be filled better by another class unless you rebuild them from the ground up and let’s face it that’s not going to happen. Being dps+ anti=stealth or track would definitely give them a place in tpvp and spvp they currently lack. I think you should let rangers decide wether or not they’d you use track or reveal lol not thieves.
(edited by Fellknight.4820)
I think it should be left up to players wether or not they would use the ultility slot. And alot ranger imbalances come from broken traits and nowhere did I say those traits shouldn’t be fixed. I don’t understand why it has to be all or nothing, just because they have track or reveal doesn’t mean there traits shouldn’t also be reworked but even if they were reworked there is no support role for a ranger that couldn’t be filled better by another class unless you rebuild them from the ground up and let’s face it that’s not going to happen. Being dps+ anti=stealth or track would definitely give them a place in tpvp and spvp they currently lack. I think you should let rangers decide wether or not they’d you use track or reveal lol not thieves.
First off, I play both ranger, and thief for the record. Thief being my most played, ranger my second. Second, why should thieves be left out of a discussion that directly concerns them?
The reason why I said it would be all or nothing is because of your opening post.
“Tracker
Stealth Revealer
In Guild Wars 2 both of those roles have been taken away leaving them no purpose in pvp whatsoever.
Worst of all this has directly impacted the game in pvp as now stealth has no hard counter. While every player is forced to remain on there toes and react almost instantly to stealth attacks there is absolutely nothing forcing stealther’s to keep on theirs.”
Your opening post directly says that this would be the ranger’s role, and the reason to play the class. The all or nothing was from you.
I think it should be left up to players wether or not they would use the ultility slot. And alot ranger imbalances come from broken traits and nowhere did I say those traits shouldn’t be fixed. I don’t understand why it has to be all or nothing, just because they have track or reveal doesn’t mean there traits shouldn’t also be reworked but even if they were reworked there is no support role for a ranger that couldn’t be filled better by another class unless you rebuild them from the ground up and let’s face it that’s not going to happen. Being dps+ anti=stealth or track would definitely give them a place in tpvp and spvp they currently lack. I think you should let rangers decide wether or not they’d you use track or reveal lol not thieves.
First off, I play both ranger, and thief for the record. Thief being my most played, ranger my second. Second, why should thieves be left out of a discussion that directly concerns them?
The reason why I said it would be all or nothing is because of your opening post.
“Tracker
Stealth Revealer
In Guild Wars 2 both of those roles have been taken away leaving them no purpose in pvp whatsoever.
Worst of all this has directly impacted the game in pvp as now stealth has no hard counter. While every player is forced to remain on there toes and react almost instantly to stealth attacks there is absolutely nothing forcing stealther’s to keep on theirs.”Your opening post directly says that this would be the ranger’s role, and the reason to play the class. The all or nothing was from you.
So let me get this straight Thieves should get there stealth that makes them unique and has been the traditional role of there class. Which has also made them the most represented and played class in both tpvp and spvp.
But Rangers shouldn’t have track or reveal which has been there traditional role in MMO’s going back 15 years, without it making them the least played and represented class in tpvp and spvp. Sure makes alot of sense lol and your serious too!
So let me get this straight Thieves should get there stealth that makes them unique and has been the traditional role of there class. Which has also made them the most represented and played class in both tpvp and spvp.
But Rangers shouldn’t have track or reveal which has been there traditional role in MMO’s going back 15 years, without it making them the least played and represented class in tpvp and spvp. Sure makes alot of sense lol and your serious too!
I never said rangers shouldn’t get reveal. I said it shouldn’t be their class role, because countering a mechanic on one class (who even has builds without said mechanic I might add), is not enough to justify using a class.
Edit: To add to this, there is also notably no class mechanics in the game with a direct counter. You can’t remove adrenaline from a warrior, you can’t keep an elementalist from switching attunements, etc. I wouldn’t mind a reveal ability existing, as long as it’s within reason, but it should be noted either way.
(edited by Rottaran Owain.6789)
So let me get this straight Thieves should get there stealth that makes them unique and has been the traditional role of there class. Which has also made them the most represented and played class in both tpvp and spvp.
But Rangers shouldn’t have track or reveal which has been there traditional role in MMO’s going back 15 years, without it making them the least played and represented class in tpvp and spvp. Sure makes alot of sense lol and your serious too!
I never said rangers shouldn’t get reveal. I said it shouldn’t be their class role, because countering a mechanic on one class (who even has builds without said mechanic I might add), is not enough to justify using a class.
Well atleast you admit to that tracking or reveal is a core mechanic to the ranger class without it there just a guy with a bow and here there’s a ton of classes that are guy’s with a bow.
But you have a pet!
But you have a pet!
And less ranged, melee and condition dmg with a pet than a thief without one. Taking track or reveal from a Ranger is like taking stealth from a thief might as well not have the class in the game.
on the melee i can agree, but thief arrows hit for like half the damage a ranger longbow can do at max range. condition damage is only high when they play a condition spec, otherwise just base condition damage.
on the melee i can agree, but thief arrows hit for like half the damage a ranger longbow can do at max range. condition damage is only high when they play a condition spec, otherwise just base condition damage.
Aren’t you forgeting about pistols because my dual pistol thief definitely outdamages any bow spec’d burst ranger.
P/P is probably the worst thief weaponset out there and can only do so much before you run out of initiative, sure its nice and bursty when you have initiative, but compare pistol autoattack to ranger autoattack and i think the ranger would be the winner in this.
I agree that Rangers do not have a distinct role that they excel in at the moment.
Yet, previous roles of similar professions in other games does not predicate what the GW2 Rangers should be.
I am ignoring that the author is likely to be posting due to being trashed by a thief recently, and attempt to add a bit more to this thread:
I recall the GW1 Ranger to be one of my favorites. It had a clear role, though not always an essential one. Fun to play. Still, I have yet to see any Ranger-type profession with its combat mechanic designed well in incorporating the pet; not simply slapping pet damange into skills. Perhaps a good question to ask when designing a ranger-type profession is to ask: Can this skill have its pet abilities merged such that there is little to no change to combat dynamics? If Yes, then the skill is perhaps not well designed.
(edited by Chriswck.6490)
P/P is probably the worst thief weaponset out there and can only do so much before you run out of initiative, sure its nice and bursty when you have initiative, but compare pistol autoattack to ranger autoattack and i think the ranger would be the winner in this.
Pistols may be worse than alot of thief sets but if you spec for pistols you’d be surprised how much dmg you can pump out with an unload. I’ve ripped long and short bow rangers to shreds without even needing to stealth dishing out 5-7k per unload. And you can unload 3 times before your out of inniative killing the longbow’s rapid fire due to cd, with assassin signet and haste you’d make a ranger disappear before he knows what hit him.
I agree that Rangers do not have a distinct role that they excel in at the moment.
Yet, previous roles of similar professions in other games does not predicate what the GW2 Rangers should be.
I am ignoring that the author is likely to be posting due to being trashed by a thief recently, and attempt to add a bit more to this thread:
I recall the GW1 Ranger to be one of my favorites. It had a clear role, though not always an essential one. Fun to play. Still, I have yet to see any Ranger-type profession with its combat mechanic designed well in incorporating the pet; not simply slapping pet damange into skills. Perhaps a good question to ask when designing a ranger-type profession is to ask: Can this skill have its pet abilities merged such that there is little to no change to combat dynamics? If Yes, then the skill is perhaps not well designed.
WRONG To say Rangers having track and reveal is because of a QQ is just crazy when that is the concept behind the class, always has been and it’s crazy not to give them those mechanics in a game with stealthers.
Guild Wars 1 did not have stealth but now that GW2 does it seems very illogical to me for them to not have reveal or track when every other game with stealthers has given them that. They added in a new class with an entirely different dynamic that drastically changed pvp, this class was based off of the traditional concept of stealthers. Then they didn’t give the traditional concept of tracking/reveal to rangers and it’s just silly. It’s like a warrior without heavy armor, a mage without spells, a Necro/warlock without life stealing, i don’t see how you could possibly think for second that this doesn’t make perfect sense lol and how this could be a whine thread when it’s just so purely logical and is as crazy as making a thief class without stealth.
But considering that you play a Mesmer I can see why you would try to discredit instituting a logical core class mechanic like reveal or track from the ranger class. Try going to any other MMo and suggesting these abilities be removed from Hunter/Scout/Ranger and see how the players call it utterly insane.
(edited by Fellknight.4820)
Insubstantiated. That you would go so far as to discredit me due solely to the profession I play most, at best, reveals whether you are in here to truly discuss if ‘tracking/revealing’ should have be included in the arsenal of Rangers.
However, I’ll take your point, and rest my case; for the sake of rangers.
I do fancy having ranger traps revealing stealthed characters upon trigger. Requires good placement of traps, and does not completely nullify stealth. Seeing that the claim here is that stealth may seem a bit too powerful used offensively, traps will prepare for that. So that’s passive revealing.
Not sure whether active revealing would do any good though. To use stealth defensively, to escape, belongs to thieves, by right. Just as, in our case here, tracking and revealing are abilities of the rangers. Active revealing would nullify defensive stealthing.
In regards of tracking. I have no idea how that should play out.
On the ranger forum they have proposed the exact same thing and all Rangers agree it would give them a necessary role they currently lack in pvp. They also have great suggestions as to how it would work and it is hardly op’d.
Lots of thiefs play without stealth, most of the condition ones use shaman’s amulets and signet of malice, including me.
Either trolling, or rarely if ever plays sPvP. I’ve never seen a thief that doesn’t play without stealth.
Maybe there is no stealth tracking mechanism because GW2 doesn’t need it. In every MMO i have played, stealth was permanent mechanism. Thiefs, burglars and rogues were always in stealth if they are not in combat, but as soon they join in fight, they are visible, and after that they have 1-2 HiPS skills to hide again permanently.
Here, most of the time you can see thiefs coming. The only real problem is that rendering problem, making some thiefs almost perma stealthed, but that’s so rare to come across.
I agree with the anti-OP views. This is really the last thing needed for ranger or the game in general. Maybe something like traps breaking stealth would be ok- but in terms of ranger there are numerous ways to turn them into something other than thief-food and improve their overall usefulness.
Thread moved to ranger discussion.
Rangers are overpowered now.
dude what are you smokin and can i have some?
rangers are underpowered in PvP and WvW majorly.
idk what you mean by they are overpowered but either you havent seen one since the first beta weekend or you trolling
Jade Quarry’s Tomoko Takei, Anabuki Tomoko, and Assassin Ahri
Thread moved to ranger discussion.
This does not belong on the Ranger board at all it’s about a ranger lack of a role in spvp and it’s effect on stealth classes and teamplay, this is not just a class discussion it’s a role and teamwork discussion. Every other class has there right to have spvp role discussion on spvp why are you moving this to class discussion?
I’ll just repost it on spvp you have no right to move this you violate CoC by doing so because you are now off topic. You need to follow your own rules mod lead by example. Moving it is not pertinant or conducive to the topic it’s flagrant censorship.
(edited by Fellknight.4820)
I propose to have stealth be revealed inside enemy combo fields. This would require minimal change to the current game and instantly give all classes the ability to reveal stealthed enemies. Combo fields also last for a limited time and are visible to stealthed players, so they can avoid them. Of course, this will require some testing, but I think it would be worth the try for the devs to play around with it.
Stealth does need a counter. A lack of a counter is simply making it too powerful/useful.
Also, making someone completely lose their target is annoying. The game should automatically re-target the enemy after he comes back out of stealth. That is, only if the player hasn’t selected another target in the meantime.
I oppose the idea of giving a counter to stealth to anything less than all classes in the game (yes, also thieves and mesmers should be able to reveal stealth in some way). I also don’t agree with the statement that rangers have always been stealth-revealers in mmo’s in general.
- a ranger
I propose to have stealth be revealed inside enemy combo fields. This would require minimal change to the current game and instantly give all classes the ability to reveal stealthed enemies. Combo fields also last for a limited time and are visible to stealthed players, so they can avoid them. Of course, this will require some testing, but I think it would be worth the try for the devs to play around with it.
Stealth does need a counter. A lack of a counter is simply making it too powerful/useful.
Also, making someone completely lose their target is annoying. The game should automatically re-target the enemy after he comes back out of stealth. That is, only if the player hasn’t selected another target in the meantime.
I oppose the idea of giving a counter to stealth to anything less than all classes in the game (yes, also thieves and mesmers should be able to reveal stealth in some way). I also don’t agree with the statement that rangers have always been stealth-revealers in mmo’s in general.
- a ranger
I don’t believe that you could find a single MMO with stealthers in it that didn’t have a ranger/scout/hunter class with some form of track or reveal. you can’t say GW1 because gw1 had no stealth.
Personally i believe an elite skill (be it an eagle eye ranger type or even a pet sniff out type (since we are obviously stuck with the pet)) with a descent cool down and only visible to ranger and his pet (therefore others would just follow the pet) wouldn’t break thieves stealth abilities and make it completely based on situation and timing. In fact it would only make thieves adapt and become better with the way they sneak to ensure they aren’t caught. At the moment stealth is a get out of jail free card. I don’t see how this would be a bad thing?
Insert 6——-Stormbluff Isle
Level 80 —-Un Usual Suspects
Here-—————-[PeRp]
Level 80 —-Un Usual Suspects
Here-—————-[PeRp]
Am i the only person here who thinks that Steal is the thieves class mechanic not stealth. granted no other class has as many opportunities or stealth like abilites as a thief, but the mesmer comes really frickin close. i personally believe that Rangers who also have a very minor stealth ability dont really need stealth detection. and to be honest when they fix the rendering bugs involved with stealth the stealth in this game is very tame compared to most MMOs.
I personally hate stealth dependent classes both playing and fighting against them. and i really feel that stealth should be phased out of MMOs altogether. However within the current game having stealth detection in a utility slot or as a passive ability would severely limit build versatility and be pretty much useless.
if the choice were up to me between using barrage or burning a 60 second cd for a stealth detection i would use barrage every time since the longest amount of time a person can stay in stealth is 6 seconds and if they are in stealth then they are not capping my node, and i can afford to wait 6 seconds while using barrage and probably damage him without even trying hard. * insert any aoe in place of barrage if you do not use a long bow(sword 1 GS 1 torch 5 lay down traps…)
as much as i absolutely hate stealth classes in any game i have ever played, the stealth in this game is fairly manageable and will be even more so when the rendering bugs are fixed. spending time and resources on adding something as useless as tracking or stealth detection i feel could be better spent on improving pet AI, improving weapon damage, improving signets, improving spirits.
all in all id rather be brought along for my full capabilities not just because of one small trick that would be pretty useless anyhow.
I agree w/ Holland that other classes should be able to reveal as well, and in that light I like the suggestion to make stealth broken by hostile combo fields. Or maybe tie it to conditions like confusion/stun/daze…
Even better imo would be to have stealth function as it currently does as long as the stealthed person is behind you or out of melee range. The moment they get inside a 300 radius while in your line of sight, you should be able to just see them. Flanking is already encouraged, so why not go all the way and make it essential if you want to be invisible? If stealth functioned that way, it would feel a lot more tactical, and a lot less cheap. I would have no problem with someone sneaking up on me if they couldn’t do it while I was staring straight at them with a trained dog at my side. I would also add that the elites that induce stealth should be immune to that mechanic so that the elite skills retain their game-changing quality.
While I don’t agree w/ the OP that past paradigms should necessarily have any bearing on current roles, I don’t think it would be an awful idea to give the ranger a couple of extra reveal tricks that other classes don’t have just to add a distinct role that people could latch on to when considering the ranger (I could certainly imagine a shout having a component that causes the pet to reveal stealthed enemies that enter its zone, or a passive stealth reveal in something like a 600 range could also be tied to a Grand Master trait). As it is right now, the perception is that ranger doesn’t fit well in the current tPvP meta so maybe a distinct role is needed just to get people interested in experimenting with the ranger more. I would just be concerned that rangers would get completely pigeon-holed into a role that almost certainly wouldn’t appeal to many playing the ranger.
So let me get this straight Thieves should get there stealth that makes them unique and has been the traditional role of there class. Which has also made them the most represented and played class in both tpvp and spvp
Your animal companion called. I couldn’t really understand what it was saying, but I think it was along the lines of “Stop ignoring me.”
So let me get this straight Thieves should get there stealth that makes them unique and has been the traditional role of there class. Which has also made them the most represented and played class in both tpvp and spvp
Your animal companion called. I couldn’t really understand what it was saying, but I think it was along the lines of “Stop ignoring me.”
lol nice one =)
Jade Quarry’s Tomoko Takei, Anabuki Tomoko, and Assassin Ahri
So let me get this straight Thieves should get there stealth that makes them unique and has been the traditional role of there class. Which has also made them the most represented and played class in both tpvp and spvp
Your animal companion called. I couldn’t really understand what it was saying, but I think it was along the lines of “Stop ignoring me.”
brilliant! 4 paws and 2 thumbs up!
So let me get this straight Thieves should get there stealth that makes them unique and has been the traditional role of there class. Which has also made them the most represented and played class in both tpvp and spvp
Your animal companion called. I couldn’t really understand what it was saying, but I think it was along the lines of “Stop ignoring me.”
Although clever the idea of having pet to over-ride tracking or reveal scout type abilities go agianst the very nature of the Ranger class.
The Ranger class was first conceived by JRR tolkien in the character Strider/Aragorn, WoW later expanded this by giving them a creature companion. Notice that they did not remove reveal or track from the class.
It’s like Thieves being able to steal and be stealthy
A warrior doing high melee dmg and wearing heavy armor
A Necro having undead pet and being able to steal life
Having one does not negate the other and having a Ranger without the core class mechanics that gave rise to the very conception of the class is like having a thief without stealth, it’s illogical and pointless. You might as well call them a Marksmen without track or reveal mechanic and in this game where anyone can equip pistol/rifle or bow is essentially a marksmen giving nothing unique to the Ranger class whatsoever.
It’s very sad to see players trying to use bad logic or clever rhetoric to explain away something that literally makes no sense and has never been in any previous MMO. Even suggesting Ranger/Hunters/scout lose stealth or reveal in any other game would be madness and deemed as such by the general playerbase.
You couldn’t find a single ranger player that wouldn’t happily remove there pet to have the dmg of a thief in either burst, or condition dmg spec. Try removing stealth from thieves and see how well the class functions because it makes about as much sense as a tracker/reveal class not having a counter to this tactic.
(edited by Fellknight.4820)
Even if we had this i wouldn’t use it,Prefer something that you know,works against the other 7 professions aswell?
Even if we had this i wouldn’t use it,Prefer something that you know,works against the other 7 professions aswell?
It would work vs Mesmer and thief that’s 25% of the avialable professions. You can spec accordingly vs just about every other class please explain to me how that uber Nature’s Spirit is helping you vs any other class I’d much rather see Reveal replaced with this terribad elite.
But if you don’t want it don’t use it, still doesn’t make sense for Ranger not to have reveal or track at thier disposal for those that would use it just because you wouldn’t.
(edited by Fellknight.4820)
I’d think just simply giving some rangers pets more usefulness in having on of their abilities detect stealth every few seconds or so.
Like any of the hound pets, seems fitting that one of their abilities should be able to detect stealth. Possibly even the felines as well. Have it be like an aura around them thats “x” yards. If a stealthed class is in the vicinity, it lights up or flashes.
Doesn’t pigeon hole the ranger, they can still focus on dealing damage while their pets periodically detect stealth. It would make sense to have a ranger in each “group” out in the field for this very purpose.
I was just thinking how funny it’d look if per say your feline reacted a certain way if there was a stealthed character in the area…. Like it’s tail went upright and started swishing around. Then the feline started making funny noises lol.
(edited by DeadlySynz.3471)
First off i might be a bit biased so forgive me for this and am happy to accept any constructive criticisms of my thoughts but as much as i hate stealth, making Ranger’s niche being the counter pretty much one other class out of eight is just lazy. I’m all for giving ranger’s a counter to it as they are survivors, pets are our unique thing so i think pets should be able to attack stealth enemies, make people actually fear pets, of course this does rely on their path finding being improved and being able to attack on the move.
In terms of giving the class as a whole a niche, now i will give a few examples of GW1 here but that’s because it is still guild wars and rangers were defined then:
First off, in GW1 ranger’s had more abilities than any to traverse terrain quickly, this should definitely return. We are Hunters we should should be able to see prey chase after it, snare it and kill it. I’m not saying that this will be a definite kill as that should depend on the skill of the hunter and prey involved, but we cannot be the best trackers if we are slower than other classes.
Secondly, in GW1 melee took second thoughts about attacking a ranger due to their ability to block and dodge attacks we kind of got this in terms of the sword and dagger and maybe lightning reflexes but i feel we need a bit more such as another block utility, (i noticed the rangers in the CM dungeon have one, was very jealous when i saw that). A lot of professions tend to have a core game mechanic linked with them as well; thiefs = stealth, warriors = high vitality, guardians = boons, i think we got evasion, or should have and yes we get the extra 50% with WS but i don’t think that’s quite on par with high health or lots of stealth so i think our endurance recovery rate needs to be increased further.
Finally, in GW1 rangers were effective at range because of their interrupts, now i know this is less of a game mechanic now, and the short-bow’s role is as a condition infliction weapon only needs to be improved stat wise but the fundamentals of it are fine. The longbow however, does need increased speed and damage but to set it apart from the warriors bow and rifles it needs to do things like inflict daze or stun, maybe even fear.
Finished, like i said i welcome constructive criticism.
So let me sum up the reasons for why a Reveal Elite have been objected thus far.
Thieves and Mesmer’s do not use stealth so there is really no reason to add a reveal mechanic.
Hardly any players that spvp or tpvp play thief or mesmer so there is truelly no reason to add a skill for classes no one even bothers to play.
Nature’s Spirit is such a great widely used elite that no one would ever consider using reveal over it. And for some reason reveal works completely differently than every other elite and you cannot swap it out for your other elites when out of combat. Encase you happened to see a match with no thieves or mesmers, which we all know happens 99% of the time in spvp and tpvp.
Rangers are already the most powerful pvp class in the game which is why you encounter spvp and tpvp games filled with them stomping Thieves and mesmer’s in 1v1 whenever they are encountered.
Adding this Elite would mean that Dev’s suddenly hit the off switch and leave every broken trait and pet ability because this ability would place a finished sign on the class.
All great soundly logical arguments that prefectly encompass the spvp and tpvp scene found in modern GW2 pvp.
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