Guild Wars 2

What is the damage of the AoE? With roughly 33% chance to crit, is it worth it running this on my LB (my mind tells me the math equates to ~10% chance of proccing)? If not, what would be a better alternative?

It scales with power —- and can also critical. On my Siege buster Ranger with 2400 pwr, it hits for 1200-1400 routinely, with criticals up to 2500 dmg. However, on my little condi ranger with 1585 pwr, it only hits for 550-650. Sigil of Air also scales this way.

If we are talking about putting it on your longbow, it will go off routinely no matter what your crit chance. Remember, rapid fire is 10 individual chances to proc and barrage is 12 chances. It will go off. Also the piercing arrows trait will jack up your proc chance if you’re shooting the zerg or a bundle of camp guards. But if you want to put it on a GS or sword, you’ll need a higher crit chance to get the most out of it. (Edit: If we are talking about PvE use, the 33% will work fine for GS or sword, as you spend a lot more time flanking your enemies and auto-attacking. You will never get that chance WvW).

Either way, I would base your decision on your power rating. If you are running a power build with 2000 pwr or more, you will get great damage out either the Fire or Air sigils. If you’re running a condi build or some other sort of lower power build, sigil of earth or something else is likely the way to go.

It’s a mixed ‘zerker/Valkyrie/Celestial (on the minor armor items; I think you guys call it a power-build) Signet-popping-Might build, so I’m sure I have enough power.

I am a casual player, but got my hands on one and wasn’t sure why it trades for more than 2 gold on the TP, and didn’t want to “waste” it by slotting-before-checking.

If I could give you one advice, for WvW go for fire, for PvP however go for air. Air actually does a bit more damage but it’s not AoE. In any case both are good sigils for LB.

Wow, if it’s down to 2 Gold on the TP, I should stock up. Usually it goes for more than 3G. In fact, if that is the case and you do plan to sell it, definitely hang on until the prices re-stabilize.

It’s probably the most effective sigil for LB out there. and if you do PvE events (like Scarlet), you couldn’t equip a better sigil.

The flame blast cannot crit.

Indoles.1467:

The flame blast cannot crit.

Do you have any evidence of this? Yes, I know it says that on the wiki. However, a 1200 to 2500 damage range with the same character on the same types of enemies (WvW guards) is a little too large to be weapon or armor variance. Coincidentally, I am running at 60% critical damage bonus…

It never hits for anything in between 1200 and 2500. —- either one or the other, with slight variance. I am open to other explanations, but if it scaled to damage then it would hit the upper number on every critical, and not just some of the time.

crossoverAtt.9680:

Indoles.1467:

The flame blast cannot crit.

Do you have any evidence of this? Yes, I know it says that on the wiki. However, a 1200 to 2500 damage range with the same character on the same types of enemies (WvW guards) is a little too large to be weapon or armor variance. Coincidentally, I am running at 60% critical damage bonus…

It never hits for anything in between 1200 and 2500. —- either one or the other, with slight variance. I am open to other explanations, but if it scaled to damage then it would hit the upper number on every critical, and not just some of the time.

Prove to me it does crit. I’ll even tell you how to test it. Create or open a chat box that only contains damage in combat and hit a target golem until flame blast procs. Screenshot the damage values in the chat with and without a crit and post them here. I’ve never seen it crit, but maybe they changed it a so that it can crit. I really don’t care enough to prove you wrong, my personal opinion is that you shouldn’t be using these sigils on a ranger in the first place.

And I don’t care to spend the time proving it to you. Bug, glitch, goof up, whatever, I can read my combat log and will continue to enjoy it.

Even if we take the low value of 1200 dmg every 5 seconds, I am curious as to why you feel it doesn’t suit a ranger. And remeber, we are talking about a long bow here. What sigil does more damage in PvE or WvW? If you want to argue for a sigil of purity, that’s fine, but it’s apples and oranges… So far you’re throwing out negative responses without offering any counter suggestions. This is someone else’s help thread. Provide help or don’t post.

I also think it can’t crit, but that doesn’t change fact it’s great sigil. I use it in PvE and WvW on LB.

Why is everyone on the ranger forum so defensive and pessimistic? Where was a providing a negative response?

I guess I need to put this into a signature under my name. All feedback I provide is strictly pvp/wvw related. I don’t pve with an optimal build because to me, that is a waste of time as this game’s pve content is so easy that any build can overcome it with relative it. I also rarely pve.

You suggested Sigil of Fire was inappropriate for Rangers. However, you did not offer a reason why or a counter suggestion. You simply stated it, as a matter of fact.

The OP is trying to decide whether to use the SoF, or sell it. If you read the OP’s second post, he mentions he is a casual player, thus we’re not talking about PvP. Another poster already mentioned taking Air over Fire for PvP, and I concur. The OP identified he was considering it for his long bow, so we’re not talking about sticking on a GS slow attack rate weapon. As all of those points were already made, I thought you had something unique to offer as far as mechanics or strategy, but were withholding it for some reason.

flame blast doesnt crit.

KyreneZA.8617:

What is the damage of the AoE? With roughly 33% chance to crit, is it worth it running this on my LB (my mind tells me the math equates to ~10% chance of proccing)? If not, what would be a better alternative?

I made a spreadsheet long ago to calculate proc distribution. Lemme see if I can find it…

Here we go. With a 33% crit chance and superior sigils, after the cooldown it will take you a median of 7 attacks to proc it. Or in detail:

26.9% chance to proc in 3 or fewer attacks after the cooldown
40.6% chance in 5 or fewer
51.8% chance in 7 or fewer
60.9% chance in 9 or fewer
81.1% chance in 16 or fewer
90.9% chance in 23 or fewer

I did it in terms of number of attacks because that’s independent of weapon rate of fire. Obviously a faster weapon will proc in fewer seconds, but in terms of number of attacks a slow or fast weapon behave the same.

If you can increase your crit chance to 53% (i.e. have fury on) the distribution changes to:

29.3% chance to proc in 2 or fewer attacks after the cooldown
40.5% chance in 3 or fewer
50.0% chance in 4 or fewer
57.9% chance in 5 or fewer
64.6% chance in 6 or fewer
82.3% chance in 10 or fewer
91.1% chance in 14 or fewer

IIRC, I’m at 55%/75% crit chance and am very satisfied with my fire sigil on a greatsword. It almost always goes off at least once a fight, frequently twice, and it really helps cut down fight times when fighting multiple mobs. I’d consider 33% kinda borderline between a procing sigil and an on-swap sigil. And I believe mathematically, the Force and Night sigils (5%/10% damage) are better on average (I have Force sigils on my sword and bow, I just enjoy watching stuff blow up when I use the greatsword).

I’d recommend the on-crit sigils on AOE weapons (sword, GS, axe). A median of 7 attacks against a single target is a long time. But if you’re attacking 3 targets at once with an AOE weapon, you have a 61% chance for it to proc in 3 swings. The bows will work this way too if you have piercing arrows, but it can be tough to line up the targets just right with a bow.

Notes
The flame blast has a 1.0 damage coefficient.
The effect originates at the target with a radius of 150 and affects up to 5 foes.
The flame blast cannot crit.
The visual effect is similar to the Elementalist skill Flame Burst and will scale in size depending on the target (for instance, vs Giganticus Lupicus), though its damage range remains the same.

-http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sigil_of_fire

the easy way to double check is to check your combat log

with (just over) 2.3k power mine hits for (just over)1.1k, and is very good in zerg situations (pve/wvw) since each proc can hit multiple enemies it essentially multiplies its effectiveness

Terkov.4138:

I also think it can’t crit, but that doesn’t change fact it’s great sigil. I use it in PvE and WvW on LB.

That’s basically all I’m after. Is it worth slotting over selling? It seems even at my low native crit chance (I do get Fury from RaO, IIRC, so it does go up to 52/3% at times), it seems it’s worth it.

Solandri.9640:

…LOTS OF MATH…

I’d recommend the on-crit sigils on AOE weapons (sword, GS, axe). A median of 7 attacks against a single target is a long time. But if you’re attacking 3 targets at once with an AOE weapon, you have a 61% chance for it to proc in 3 swings. The bows will work this way too if you have piercing arrows, but it can be tough to line up the targets just right with a bow.

Yeah, but LB #2 and LB #5 (even without piercing) are more than enough to proc once per skill use, right? I’m not looking for a min-max answer, I play everything casual, even PvP and WvW.

As to you both, pity I can’t also add your responses to the “Answer” area. Thanks guys!

Indoles.1467:

Why is everyone on the ranger forum so defensive and pessimistic? Where was a providing a negative response?

Dude, you didn’t even attempt to read my question, you were so hell bent on proving other posters wrong.

I guess I need to put this into a signature under my name. All feedback I provide is strictly pvp/wvw related. I don’t pve with an optimal build because to me, that is a waste of time as this game’s pve content is so easy that any build can overcome it with relative it. I also rarely pve.

Perhaps your signature should read “I’m to self-absorbed to provide any positive feedback or even address other forum posters’ questions. More so when it is outside of my dubious realm of expertise.”

KyreneZA.8617:

Yeah, but LB #2 and LB #5 (even without piercing) are more than enough to proc once per skill use, right?

At 33% proc rate, you have a 65% chance of the sigil going off with LB#2 (10 attacks). With LB#5 (12 attacks) against a single target you have a 71% chance of it going off. At least in theory. I’m not actually sure it hits a single target 12 times.

At a 53% proc rate, these probabilities rise to 82% for LB#2, 87% for LB#5.

For time between procs, if you do the hairy math, spamming the #2 and #5 skills whenever they’re available and autoattacking in between gives you 1.65 attacks/sec on average (1.77 attacks/sec if traited).

Since a 33% crit rate gives you a median of 7 attacks per proc, that gives a proc median of every 4.2 sec (3.95 sec if traited). Add the 5 sec sigil cooldown and you’ll see a proc a median of ~9.1 sec.

If you have fury and are at 53% crit rate, that gives you a median of 4 attacks per proc, for a proc median 2.4 sec (2.26 sec if traited). Add the 5 sec sigil cooldown an you’ll see a proc a median of ~7.3 sec.

Median means half the time it’ll proc before then, half the time it’ll proc after.

I use fire on my LB in WvW and it is very effective.

I stuck another Long Bow/Sigil of Fire on a different Ranger (with much lower power). Across 15 flame blasts, I got a range of 700-1250 (rounded slightly). It was a fairly even distribution across that range. I’ll admit, I really can’t say whether Sigil of Fire criticals or not, but there is the damage range on a 1950 pwr Ranger, if you’re comparing. But again, this character has a 33% dmg bonus on crit. 1.83 X 700 = 1281. I guess we need to call that coincidence. I don’t know —- my other character’s bow is a transmuted thrice sigiled heirloom. Maybe it mutated. Maybe the proc’ing blow hits a low armored target causing huge damage. Either way, I’d keep the sigil Kyrene.

Solandri’s math is spot on, but of course in PvE, your life doesn’t hang in the balance if sigil procs every 6.5 seconds vs 5. No need to completely min/max in PvE unless that’s what you enjoy. Surprisingly, most people enjoy fiery explosions….

Why use it on a LB? LB is ideal only when your not in the fray. If your in the middle of the fight use SB/Sword/GS/Axe. Standing far away and having flame blasts AoE around you isn’t productive.

restoration.2806:

Why use it on a LB? LB is ideal only when your not in the fray. If your in the middle of the fight use SB/Sword/GS/Axe. Standing far away and having flame blasts AoE around you isn’t productive.

the flame blast is around the target that it procced on…

- also flame blast for 1.8k

Linguistically Inept.6583:

restoration.2806:

Why use it on a LB? LB is ideal only when your not in the fray. If your in the middle of the fight use SB/Sword/GS/Axe. Standing far away and having flame blasts AoE around you isn’t productive.

the flame blast is around the target that it procced on…

- also flame blast for 1.8k

oh didn’t know that.

crossoverAtt.9680:

Either way, I’d keep the sigil Kyrene.

Yeah I did, and it’s awesome IMHO. Also now use the Air in PvP and have been killing my wife’s Engi without having to swap, where before I had to use WH #4 (Hitchkitten’s “Birds”) as well before getting her downed.

Solandri’s math is spot on, but of course in PvE, your life doesn’t hang in the balance if sigil procs every 6.5 seconds vs 5. No need to completely min/max in PvE unless that’s what you enjoy. Surprisingly, most people enjoy fiery explosions….

And also describes what happens. I mostly get one proc during LB #2 (I’m bad with the skill names) and one during “Barrage,” but sometimes not on the second skill if the first procced already.

I do see multi-procs on Barrage from time to time. Is this possible with the internal cooldown timer?

Internal cooldown is bugged. With 99% chance to crit, superior sigil of blood only proc every 5 sec while the description state 2 sec.

KyreneZA.8617:

I do see multi-procs on Barrage from time to time. Is this possible with the internal cooldown timer?

5s ICD… barrage hits 12 times (so id assume once/sec…) so presumably over 12 seconds with the full channel (? ive never checked)

two other points to note (that puts it ahead of other sigil choices imo)
- sigil of fire doesnt suffer from rangers kitten scaling
- helps add -rng- burst to attacks

No, what I meant was, two or three arrows landing at the same time and creating the AoE at the same time within the greater AoE field of Barrage. Is that possible or do I need to up my meds?

KyreneZA.8617:

No, what I meant was, two or three arrows landing at the same time and creating the AoE at the same time within the greater AoE field of Barrage. Is that possible or do I need to up my meds?

i dont think so, could be a different players sigil of fire (or ele fire staff#3)? or i could be wrong

KyreneZA.8617:

No, what I meant was, two or three arrows landing at the same time and creating the AoE at the same time within the greater AoE field of Barrage. Is that possible or do I need to up my meds?

I see that a lot when it procs with my GS, but when I check the damage logs each mob only got hit once. I think what’s going on is that it procs on a single target, calculates which targets are within the AOE, then shows the flame animation around each of them.

Makes sense. Thanks again all!

I only PvE, and personally, I would not waste a SoF on a longbow. However, I do have a SoF on my guardian’s staff.

If a ranger is running a longbow, then that ranger should be swapping it out very often with the second weapon, whatever that might be.

Imo, the best sigils for a longbows are ones that process on weapon swap. For me, this is sigil of battle that stacks might on swap. Might adds power and condition damage, so boosts your DPS, something you want in PvE.

I have sigils of battle on my longbow, shortbow and greatsword.

Bri, have you ran remoresless/valkryie ranger with longbow/greatsword? I use a sigil of fire on my longbow and it’s awesome. First, I use a temp longbow to stack 25 stack bloodlust. After that I switch. We’re talking 4000 attack and crit on stealth / kill. For longbow, I switch if I’m setting up Maul with hunter’s shot or if I need defense/evasion/block/mobility. With the new stunlock warrior meta, this is my new build—it demolishes those warriors. And I’m a lot more efficient with damage than I was with beastmaster, at least in a zerg.

Chopps, I don’t WvW it bores me to tears ..

I like might because it is a DPS boon I can stack and share with my pet .You cannot do this with bloodlust.

Spvp is totally different, you can’t swap to a fire sigil or anything OP like that. I actually just posted in the spvp forums as to why I don’t play spvp. If you’re bored, read that, I’m too lazy to paste it here.

One downside I believe but can’t prove occurs is that you get retaliation damage from the aoe if you shoot at one target and the blast effects nearby targets. Can anyone confirm or deny this?