The Ranger Problem [PvP]

The Ranger Problem [PvP]

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Posted by: Eurantien.4632

Eurantien.4632

Alright, this is gonna be a long one. The ranger has no advocate on the forums. We are a class plagued with many problems. This isn’t a conversation about pet AI it’s about the class being essentially forced intro traitlines and therefore builds. Sure, wvw has a wide variety of specs but spvp and tpvp there is one. At the moment that build is spirits.

The current meta is very condi heavy. Almost every team runs one necro and one spirit ranger and some run double. The rate at which necro and ranger can reapply condis and all at ranged forces the necessity of condition removal. Ranger has 4 ways to clear conditions.
- Healing Spring: 6 conditions or so if you stay inside the field the whole duration. But if you stand in the field for the whole duration in a competitive match then you will take a lot more damage than if you were using another heal because one cannot kite effectively within its radius. The heal is also bad for 1 v 1 because it has a low initial heal and a long cool down. Sure, we can blast finish with drakes and leap finish but for the more effective blast finishers we have to rely on our pet being within the field and range of the enemy.
- Signet of Renewal: Great utility and one of my favorites. Full condi cleanse for team and requires tactful play to cleanse a teammate or yourself because the players must be in range of the pet and then the pet must be swapped to avoid epidemics or the death of the pet. That being said the pet is required to be alive for this condi removal to work.
- Spirit of Nature: A great elite, however, it is rarely used for the purpose of a condition cleanse because the rez utility is so much stronger than its condition cleanse. Not to mention, upon going down all condis are cleansed anyway. Also, the fact that conditions can be reapplied so rapidly makes this kind of condi removal sort of obsolete.
- Trait: Empathic Bond: This is our crutch and our best condition cleanse. Transfers 3 conditions every 10 seconds to our pet is amazing. However, once the pet dies the ranger is screwed because all condition clear becomes impossible.
- Sigils and Runes (ie Lyssa) i’m not counting because the sigils proc even without condis making them almost worthless and if one uses Lyssa then using the spirit elite is less efficient.

So yes, we can bring decent utilities to clear conditions but trying to find a condition heavy meta without empathic bond is suicide (this is coming from an experienced berzerker ranger who does not run empathic bond in said build).

Without other effective condi clears we are forced to trait into Wilderness Survival which gives toughness and condition damage. Therefore, if we want to survive we must use condition damage because otherwise we are wasting damage. That means that every ranger is condition specced. We cannot run power because we have no condi cleanse. If we do run power our damage is not enough to kill them before they condi load us so we must run condition specs.

Conditions have always been viable for rangers but in a game that wants to push build diversity there is an entire half of the ranger rarely seen. Marksmanship, skirmishing, and more recently beastmastery are traitlines not as frequently traited into anymore. Our pets no longer do as much damage to invest into them, ranger power damage is pitiful, and skirmishing is only traited into for traps for the most part. Sadly, traps have no place in high level play because they can be easily triggered by dodges and AI. Traps also leave the player completely unprotected. So right now rangers have one build and that’s spirits.

Every patch we lose more and more build diversity. Traps have always been “viable” but as players have learned they are no longer effective. BM was always viable until the recent nerf. Spirits was always viable but up until the BM nerf weren’t the go to spec. The one thing these specs all have in common is passive condi removal and the use of condition damage for maximum efficiency.

Ranger needs more condition removal in traitlines other than wilderness survival. Certain traits (like the pet buff traits in skirmishing lines) need to be merged to make room for more traits that allow for such things as condition removal. Also, pets have no way of removing condis besides the one condition every ten seconds from SoR. This requires pets to be swapped which makes some traits (Master’s bond) completely useless. We need more trait condition removal and more trait synergy.

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Posted by: cbrooksc.9358

cbrooksc.9358

yeah I agree with you regarding spvp.
i’ll try something different risking condition removal but always end up back on my spirit or condition build.

There also needs to be some huge changes in pve and wvw.

I’ve recently started playing WVW a lot and I don’t feel like a master of the wild. i feel like a very venerable guy with a bow and gs who cant escape anyone and has some animal humping my back leg constantly and when i point it at an invader it stands there looking at me for a while before running around behind the invader and just following him…..

I want to feel mobile and at one with nature!!!!!!!

And don’t get me started on theifs……….

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Posted by: Eurantien.4632

Eurantien.4632

yeah I agree with you regarding spvp.
i’ll try something different risking condition removal but always end up back on my spirit or condition build.

There also needs to be some huge changes in pve and wvw.

I’ve recently started playing WVW a lot and I don’t feel like a master of the wild. i feel like a very venerable guy with a bow and gs who cant escape anyone and has some animal humping my back leg constantly and when i point it at an invader it stands there looking at me for a while before running around behind the invader and just following him…..

I want to feel mobile and at one with nature!!!!!!!

And don’t get me started on theifs……….

That’s a shame. I find wvw to be quiet enjoyable. I win the majority of my 1 v 3s and below.

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Posted by: cbrooksc.9358

cbrooksc.9358

yeah I agree with you regarding spvp.
i’ll try something different risking condition removal but always end up back on my spirit or condition build.

There also needs to be some huge changes in pve and wvw.

I’ve recently started playing WVW a lot and I don’t feel like a master of the wild. i feel like a very venerable guy with a bow and gs who cant escape anyone and has some animal humping my back leg constantly and when i point it at an invader it stands there looking at me for a while before running around behind the invader and just following him…..

I want to feel mobile and at one with nature!!!!!!!

And don’t get me started on theifs……….

That’s a shame. I find wvw to be quiet enjoyable. I win the majority of my 1 v 3s and below.

what build are you running for wvw. i’ve been contemplating making a knight build just to try it out.

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Posted by: Ryan.9387

Ryan.9387

yeah I agree with you regarding spvp.
i’ll try something different risking condition removal but always end up back on my spirit or condition build.

There also needs to be some huge changes in pve and wvw.

I’ve recently started playing WVW a lot and I don’t feel like a master of the wild. i feel like a very venerable guy with a bow and gs who cant escape anyone and has some animal humping my back leg constantly and when i point it at an invader it stands there looking at me for a while before running around behind the invader and just following him…..

I want to feel mobile and at one with nature!!!!!!!

And don’t get me started on theifs……….

That’s a shame. I find wvw to be quiet enjoyable. I win the majority of my 1 v 3s and below.

what build are you running for wvw. i’ve been contemplating making a knight build just to try it out.

I run full knights in WvW and it is not viable for anything aside from large group play. With large groups, you can trait into power and make use of very high toughness to survive, along with the 6s immunity sigil, and stability sigil actives.

Ranger | Elementalist

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Posted by: cbrooksc.9358

cbrooksc.9358

yeah I agree with you regarding spvp.
i’ll try something different risking condition removal but always end up back on my spirit or condition build.

There also needs to be some huge changes in pve and wvw.

I’ve recently started playing WVW a lot and I don’t feel like a master of the wild. i feel like a very venerable guy with a bow and gs who cant escape anyone and has some animal humping my back leg constantly and when i point it at an invader it stands there looking at me for a while before running around behind the invader and just following him…..

I want to feel mobile and at one with nature!!!!!!!

And don’t get me started on theifs……….

That’s a shame. I find wvw to be quiet enjoyable. I win the majority of my 1 v 3s and below.

what build are you running for wvw. i’ve been contemplating making a knight build just to try it out.

I run full knights in WvW and it is not viable for anything aside from large group play. With large groups, you can trait into power and make use of very high toughness to survive, along with the 6s immunity sigil, and stability sigil actives.

so how are you winning 1v3’s or lower?

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Posted by: Ryan.9387

Ryan.9387

Wrong person

When I feel for going small scale I tPvP. It is more challenging.

Ranger | Elementalist

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Posted by: Eurantien.4632

Eurantien.4632

I just use my variant of Deku’s Spirit build. 0/10/30/30/0 with troll unguent, storm spirit, sun spirit, SoR. I use rabid gear with a dash of carrion here and there, s/t and sb with energy sigils and corruption, and runes of rata sum. I switch my elites up all the time in wvw, entangle, snow leopard, spirit of nature. I’ve never used food buffs but it’d probably help.

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Posted by: OGDeadHead.8326

OGDeadHead.8326

Knowing Anet, they will nerf Empathic Bond into the ground and not give anything in return. Their way of creating build diversity.

Win10 pro | Xeon 5650 @ 4 GHz | R9 280x toxic | 24 Gig Ram | Process Lasso user

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Posted by: Dardamaniac.1295

Dardamaniac.1295

Very good thread..I totally agree that every Ranger has,in the current meta,to take Empathetic Bond,i dont agree in the adding more cond removal…Shatter Mesmers got 0 cond removal still they more than viable and they specc for power.The utilities that they bring in table make em usefull even tho they suffer from cond removal.Thats what i want for Rangers too….If they add more cond removal they will just make Rangers immune to conditions.
I want more utility-teamfightning skills-traits..Mesmers portal is so good..I want something like this for Rangers too.Always combined with pets,i want a Power Ranger to have the dmg,the teamfighting skills and a panic button to escape from bad situations..So it will worth sacrifising cond removal skills-traits.Right now power Ranger cant bring something in team..We got some ways of helping ourselves survive but we depend on very specific traits that are far in traitlines..Signet of stone needs 30 traits and Protect me needs a bear or itll probably kill your pet.
Still even if we take both i wont feel totally safe..I got a feeling that i cant depend on them like a Engi will depend in Elixir S…
Imo the main issue is that we have some pets skills that we cant actually control and we dont synergize well with them…

(edited by Dardamaniac.1295)

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Posted by: cbrooksc.9358

cbrooksc.9358

Wrong person

When I feel for going small scale I tPvP. It is more challenging.

oh yeah LOL. It was like 4am when I was writing on here LOL

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Posted by: Eurantien.4632

Eurantien.4632

Very good thread..I totally agree that every Ranger has,in the current meta,to take Empathetic Bond,i dont agree in the adding more cond removal…Shatter Mesmers got 0 cond removal still they more than viable and they specc for power.The utilities that they bring in table make em usefull even tho they suffer from cond removal.Thats what i want for Rangers too….If they add more cond removal they will just make Rangers immune to conditions.
I want more utility-teamfightning skills-traits..Mesmers portal is so good..I want something like this for Rangers too.Always combined with pets,i want a Power Ranger to have the dmg,the teamfighting skills and a panic button to escape from bad situations..So it will worth sacrifising cond removal skills-traits.Right now power Ranger cant bring something in team..We got some ways of helping ourselves survive but we depend on very specific traits that are far in traitlines..Signet of stone needs 30 traits and Protect me needs a bear or itll probably kill your pet.
Still even if we take both i wont feel totally safe..I got a feeling that i cant depend on them like a Engi will depend in Elixir S…
Imo the main issue is that we have some pets skills that we cant actually control and we dont synergize well with them…

That’s the thing. Mesmer’s and thieves have the ability to port and disappear which is why they have little to no condition cleanse. However, ranger does not have that ability. Sure, I wish guard had an alt skill that allowed us to swap places with out pet but it won’t happen. At the moment ranger’s escapes (ie zerker ranger) is plain just running or facerolling whatever DPS tries to 1 v 1 you. With the buff to blind thieves are way harder because every hit has to hit. We have no way of getting the enemy to detarget us in an open fight besides positioning. So unless we can get some awesome ports/invis (which I highly doubt) then we need more condi removal in other traitlines.

This is why i have wished for a pet that creates a smoke field and/or the ability for guard to actually leave our pet on a person to guard or a place to guard and then function as a port utility. Sadly, with the leash range the mechanics would probably just port us and have our pet instantly be there too which would be just OP. So until then, hopefully we can get some condi removal not dependent on our pets survival. It is mind boggling how we are expected to use DPS pets as a zerker to get on par damage output with other classes. But… we cannot trait into BM to do this so that means our DPS pets get instantly slaughtered by AoE leaving us with even less condi removal than we already had… which was almost zero to begin with.

(edited by Eurantien.4632)