Guild Wars 2

blitzkrieg.2451:

Yes, ascended stats and individual armor gear and runes not available in pvp that are available in wvw and food makes or breaks a fight easily or else those very pieces of gear and runes and sigils wouldn’t cost so much (generosity being 140g+ isn’t because of pve, it’s for wvw). +40% or -40% food ALONE changes the tide of a fight, especially when you’re talking about warriors.

I’m not saying wvw players are stupid, it’s just most are reliant on the stats before the skill. When you win in a fight wvw it’s usually a case of having an OP build due to the above things I mentioned as opposed to raw player skill like you have in PvP without those things.

The difference is, that in PvP, things are still relied upon, the traits/builds that are “OP” in comparison to the rest of the game, which is why you see so few builds being represented in top tier. Some are just far better than others, hence, no Ranger.

Not arguing here, just pointing that out.

blitzkrieg.2451:

[…] they count dodges , they don’t random dodge, they don’t double dodge.

This is so wrong, really. Even the best pvp players can waste their dodges or dodge twice in row, virtually dodging nothig. In fact, it’s quiet usual.

borya.2964:

blitzkrieg.2451:

[…] they count dodges , they don’t random dodge, they don’t double dodge.

This is so wrong, really. Even the best pvp players can waste their dodges or dodge twice in row, virtually dodging nothig. In fact, it’s quiet usual.

Actually it’s not, you need to practice not to waste dodges against top tier players because they count them. You’re a fool if you think otherwise and you’re definitely a fool if you think top tier players waste dodges half hazardly or intentionally. You simply can’t in top tier so your entire statement about top tier players (have you ever even fought one before? im starting to question this from your statement alone) is completely false.

You can go to twitch and watch top tiers and watch them stream, they even make fun of players who do it constantly and you will never see them waste a single dodge because they can’t afford to. Now, this isn’t explicitly saying WvW players can’t do the same thing, it’s just almost all of them don’t. Which is sad.

Couple things you’ll need to understand before even attempting to fight a top tier pvp player from Abjured/TCG or wherever is this:

1. Don’t waste dodges and count their dodges appropriately and if they use Energy sigil which is easy to figure out from first encounter alone
2. Condi cleanse priority – most wvw players don’t even know this, and most low-mid tier pvp players don’t either, but it’s huge, and definitely if you run a condi or cele hybrid build for embedding strong conditions over weak ones.
3. Environmental awareness for +1’s
4. Pretty much understanding every trait for any common build that exists per class, you need to play them, understand them and understand the core weaknesses against a top tier player. Normally, even seasoned wvw duelers haven’t even touched more than 3 classes , this doesn’t slide in top tier and simply won’t work.

Most wvw players don’t even cover half of these , no need to when you have stats and food to make up for the spaces that you’re lacking.

The only cheese builds in PvP used in top tier is cele ele and insp mantra shatter mes and even THEN you can’t just roll one up and expect to beat a top tier player because they know everything about the build and it’s weaknesses. Also, cele ele is only godlike still right now because of burning damage. It’ll be nerfed, whether it’s the application of eles/guardians or burn dmg across the board who knows but it will for sure be nerfed down somehow.

WvW players are not more reliant on build/stats/food/etc than PvP players are reliant on build/team comp/rotation. I would even say, the opposite is the case.

And saying, the best PvPer would destroy the best WvWers is just a wild guess, because nobody knows, who are the “best” WvW players. There is no “official” measurement of individual skill in WvW, but this doesn’t necessarily mean, the players are less skilled. And no, i highly doubt, the best known WvW players are the most skilled ones, they are just known, because they stream/make videos.

Are there lots of noobs in WvW? Yes. Is the same true for PvP. Yes, definitely! (just remember, hotjoin is part of PvP).

“WvW players are not more reliant on build/stats/food/etc than PvP players are reliant on build/team comp/rotation. I would even say, the opposite is the case.”

The argument isn’t whether or not who is more reliant on build. It’s a simple distinction between raw skill and fabricated skill. Food/op stat sets/ascended jewelry/guard buffs vs Raw build. In wvw it’s 80% build / 20% raw skill , in pvp it’s 40% build/60% raw skill roughly due to lack of amulets/food/guard buffs that don’t even come close to the stats you have in wvw. It’s not an argument of whether who’s more reliant, just a matter of distinction between knowledge and raw skill of the class between the 2. 2 totally different mindsets when making a build. I’m referring only to fights, not the game mode either.

But there’s very rare exceptions, you have Triggerless / Kronos Xnm 2 thieves who I don’t think have lost a fight to any top tier player except Magic Toker and those were more in their favor as I watched those duels personally in a private PvP arena.

But alright

blitzkrieg.2451:

in pvp it’s 40% build/60% raw skill roughly due to lack of amulets/food/guard buffs that don’t even come close to the stats you have in wvw.

*cough cele ele’s *cough

blitzkrieg.2451:

In wvw it’s 80% build / 20% raw skill , in pvp it’s 40% build/60% raw skill roughly due to lack of amulets/food/guard buffs that don’t even come close to the stats you have in wvw.

This is nonsense. Yea, you can have better stats and such in WvW, but guess what, the enemies have them too. So you could even say, WvW requires more skill, because the enemy can have better gear/food/buffs/whatever than you (this would be nonsense too of course).

blitzkrieg.2451:

borya.2964:

blitzkrieg.2451:

[…] they count dodges , they don’t random dodge, they don’t double dodge.

This is so wrong, really. Even the best pvp players can waste their dodges or dodge twice in row, virtually dodging nothig. In fact, it’s quiet usual.

Actually it’s not, you need to practice not to waste dodges against top tier players because they count them. You’re a fool if you think otherwise and you’re definitely a fool if you think top tier players waste dodges half hazardly or intentionally. You simply can’t in top tier so your entire statement about top tier players (have you ever even fought one before? im starting to question this from your statement alone) is completely false.

You can go to twitch and watch top tiers and watch them stream, they even make fun of players who do it constantly and you will never see them waste a single dodge because they can’t afford to. Now, this isn’t explicitly saying WvW players can’t do the same thing, it’s just almost all of them don’t. Which is sad.

Couple things you’ll need to understand before even attempting to fight a top tier pvp player from Abjured/TCG or wherever is this:

1. Don’t waste dodges and count their dodges appropriately and if they use Energy sigil which is easy to figure out from first encounter alone
2. Condi cleanse priority – most wvw players don’t even know this, and most low-mid tier pvp players don’t either, but it’s huge, and definitely if you run a condi or cele hybrid build for embedding strong conditions over weak ones.
3. Environmental awareness for +1’s
4. Pretty much understanding every trait for any common build that exists per class, you need to play them, understand them and understand the core weaknesses against a top tier player. Normally, even seasoned wvw duelers haven’t even touched more than 3 classes , this doesn’t slide in top tier and simply won’t work.

Most wvw players don’t even cover half of these , no need to when you have stats and food to make up for the spaces that you’re lacking.

The only cheese builds in PvP used in top tier is cele ele and insp mantra shatter mes and even THEN you can’t just roll one up and expect to beat a top tier player because they know everything about the build and it’s weaknesses. Also, cele ele is only godlike still right now because of burning damage. It’ll be nerfed, whether it’s the application of eles/guardians or burn dmg across the board who knows but it will for sure be nerfed down somehow.

There are a lot of different mechanics that relies on dodge, a mesmer would dodge to get a clone, a guardian to heal, an ele to create an attunement, a ranger to get protection or remove poison, an engi to proc a bomb etc. And some classes and builds can relies on weapon skills or skills to actually evade, some others can have high vigor uptime or uses energy sigils etc.

That being said, like i said even the best pvp players (same goes for roamers) can random dodge, waste a dodge and sometimes dodge twice in a row, virtually dodging nothing, wether in 1 vs 1, 1 vs x or small scale fights. There is nothing to prove. Everyone can watch on youtube some of the best spvpers, roamers or tournaments to see that it happens a lot more than you think.

Just Watched a vid of Magic Toker (i don’t know this guy) : fisrt 15 seconds of the vid, engaging an ele, random dodge.

Some of the best roamers played all classes, knows every animations and icons, they can count Cd etc (same goes for the best spvpers). It s ’only a few players, not matter the game mod.

Some of the best players in this game are roamers and barely played pvp (and some others spvpers barely play wvw). Your statement is absurd, you can continue your monologue, there is no debate.

blitzkrieg.2451:

aspirine.6852:

That myth is still active I see, that pvp players are better than wvw roamers. They are way better in one thing, that is win pvp matches, that does not make them better against any good wvw roamer.
Also i watched Potatoveg on stream this weekend and I thought he handled himself more than fine. Nice build he has.

Actually, I watched it as well and he was getting wrecked by necros, thieves, mesmers all 1on1 on node and he brought no team support at all. Understandably, mesmers are broken and thieves can just blind spam you and necros have so much LF uptime it’s gotten ridiculous too. He was doing good in team fights but that’s literally because the other team didn’t bother to focus him at all which is just dumb as he didn’t have signet of stone and would have been such an easy kill to focus – one backstab would force a disengage on him and put him out of the fight but they didn’t because he was playing against low MMR players and they were focusing bunker guardians/warriors instead of him and allowed him to just wreck fights – a good team would focus him, kill him and make him a target to ressurect so they could cleave the team as they do it.

He did well though for what the build allows , but the build doesn’t allow much really. Offhand axe is terrible , the pathing on path of scars needs to work alot better , I can simply sidestep the return of axe 4 and do it 75% of the time anyway just by adjusting position constantly in a fight so i dont even need to dodge it. It’s just a silly weapon , the retaliation is a joke on it too , needs to grant protection and retaliation OR make it where you can use it while moving (like they ended up doing with engineer’s shield reflect skill, they use to be standing still for that one).

Props to potatoveg man, just good mesmers , thieves and cele necros and good d/d eles will wreck that build no matter skill level you are with this build.

He did have GS and was able to assist in decapping points but that was about it, and those weren’t even mid to top tier players, they were low tier pug randoms in a low MMR.

i’m not sure we watched the same thing? He was doing fine in wvw, that would kinda support your theory that pvp are better players but that is debetable.
From what I see in pvp matches 1-1 is very rare in the matches I see, 1-1 in wvw on the other hand is pretty common. I saw him(potatoveg) wreck Malf with his burst mesmer which is no noob, but ok the taunt is kinda broken right now(so is mesmer btw )

Do Rune of the Soldier cleanse conditions from the ranger when he uses shouts? They didn’t used to – has this been fixed?

Lewis Burnell.2493:

Do Rune of the Soldier cleanse conditions from the ranger when he uses shouts? They didn’t used to – has this been fixed?

Yup, I’ve been running the trooper runes in WvW and they are working great. Let’s me take marksmanship, skirmishing and beatmastery without being completely destroyed by condi’s.

There should be very little difference between skill levels when it comes to spvp be roaming WvW. For example the talk of food and buffs, while this is present in WvW vs spvp pretty much most good WvW players will have them making the fights fair and standard similar to spvp, you’ll have a difference in terms of ascended vs orange gear but I honestly never noticed even when I played.

FrownyClown.8402:

I really like potatoveg;s build but the lack of condi removal is concerning.

well by having Guard every 12sec CD and WHAO every 16sec CD, im able to remove 2 conditions on my demand and second needed, Sic Em is made for mesmers thieves and so on which also nice as condi removal cause if not fighting stealthy profession you can use it to remove condi since 40% damage isnt that much especially when pet is kited, SOTP is not always being used, its being used when being pressured by CC or condition to avoid being CCed when healing and so on (ofc for damage and such)

what im using and fighting with is ALL fun and my preference, also be awared that in that last few matchups you cant go around and NOT get ganked by groups or zergs, its really hard to find ppl to fight without them panicking and “summoning” 3 more allys.

mythological.7206:

So the “golden age” is bunkering up? I know the power meta is insane now, but still, I wouldn’t even bother fightng bunker/regen type builds, you can’t tell in wvw though.

well no not really, at least i am bunkering up because i mostly encounter outnumbered and if its only 2 ppl i have a chance to kill 1 of them and bail or both or at least just bail, im able to kill professions pretty fast aswell but like i said im built for outnumbered and not the meta today which mostly is zerk.

That Charr.2180:

blitzkrieg.2451:

Golden age lol … These builds are good against wvw bads who have little to no experience fighting actually good players, but you will not come close to a top tier player in tPvP with any of these builds.

They’re good though for low to mid tier play in WvW , nice videos!

Title says “roaming”, you come in & start talking about tPvP. Must take real skill to run cele engi, cele d/d ele or mantra shatter because everyone knows how hard meta builds are to run.

Cool to see some variety & just in melee ranger alone. It’s a shame that no video really tackles the issue of condi removal though. All builds seem to have some, but no dedicated footage of build v condi player. Flopy’s vid is meh, mostly random 1v1 engagements & some didn’t even have food/guard buffs when he did though the fight with [Scnd] mesmer was nice, didn’t expect him to melt so quick. Fox’s was impressive though again, would like to see more play v condi. Josh sounds high af though he explains & demonstrates the build well and wtf at that 9.4k pet crit at 4:33 lolwut, will likely give his build a go. Finally Wizzo, happy to see a melee build demonstrated in a group post-patch & some other cooky ideas from him, keep on theorycrafting!

my food is giving 100toughness + 70precision and oil is precision, without it i will just have like 14% less critchance and that will bring me to like 18%, even with that im able to fight cause opening strike is 100% crit chance and i get alot of fury from swapping weapon (grabbing my siamoth item or SOTP).
so i dont see how “food” is deciding if the player can fight good or not, there are ppl that are demolishing other ppl without using food, food is NOT the source of defining if its a good player or not, in spvp you dont have food and you are limited in stats that you can choose.

and for the rest of the ppl here, i dont think any of us (Glad/Fox) or any other person is planning into becoming the best of the best out there, at least me i just want to help others find their way into the profession therefore i make alot of montages, the main idea of my montages is not showing how good or bad im playing and what kind of ppl, its to show the build that im using and its playstyle and allow ppl to see it in action if case they are interested in it and so on.

everything im doing when it comes to playing alone/streaming/making videos is all FOR FUN and entertaining others, i have no need for anything cause all im doing is having fun, whoever wants to say or feel like we are trying to become the best and snob ppl like most Esports ppl then you should consider taking a 2nd look.

anywho thanks LughLongArm for posting my video, i didnt really want to get exposed like that but thanks for linking it anyway

Bob The Potato / PotatoVeg

mythological.7206:

So the “golden age” is bunkering up? I know the power meta is insane now, but still, I wouldn’t even bother fightng bunker/regen type builds, you can’t tell in wvw though.

Since you can get somewhat decent burst with Remorseless and melee, you can have more defensive stats and traits. With the things that did change for the better, it has made these types of builds viable for roaming while Power LB has lost out with the patch. Plus, with the crazy burst going on, some like to build for bunkering, I know I do, I’m simply not fast enough of a player to run zerk stats, so I run cavalier with intelligence sigils, gives me some leeway.
.
.
.
.
Edit: G’day DarkFlopy, it is good to see your videos, I enjoy them a lot because you play well and have a good taste in music too Most montages I watch have rubbish music with them! Was happy to see your Twilight, congrats, but I’m a big fan of Foefire’s Essence (I made one not long after launch) so I was sad to see your one go. I must admit though, the silly scimitar throws me everytime, I’d be swapping that to a Jormag’s Breath for sure! Well done on the vids.

Thanks Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582, im waiting for expansion to see if there is any worthy 1h sword skin that i should go for, if not i will check the new legendary, if wont find any… bolt will be my new 1h sword :P

and FrownyClown.8402 if you are so concerned about the condi removal i am working on a video (some kind of a montage just with lyrics running in the background saying important stuff) that shows how to deal with this build against the condition meta of today, its gonna take some time because you have to find a condition user first and ofc not to get outnumbered by 3 to 1 ratio :P

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

With the things that did change for the better, it has made these types of builds viable for roaming while Power LB has lost out with the patch.

Full melee was viable for roaming prepatch too. Actually all those mentioned in the first post have played or at least tried full melee before the patch. It might be stronger now due to better burst potential, but some other builds/classes got massive buffs too.
And LB/x is not weaker than prepatch, even compared to most other classes, and still superior to full melee in many cases.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

With the things that did change for the better, it has made these types of builds viable for roaming while Power LB has lost out with the patch.

Full melee was viable for roaming prepatch too. Actually all those mentioned in the first post have played or at least tried full melee before the patch. It might be stronger now due to better burst potential, but some other builds/classes got massive buffs too.
And LB/x is not weaker than prepatch, even compared to most other classes, and still superior to full melee in many cases.

Yeah, I play(ed) cavalier dual melee in WvW more than 18 months ago, it is just stronger now because of remorseless and resounding timbre.

And yes, mathematically, LB does do less damage post-patch with a full zerk build.

Dmg is not all what counts. And you don’t have to go full zerk with lb.

No metabuild on metabattle.com, yet. Still for insiders only.

hey boys ty LughLongArm.5460 for the shout out man if u doubt the build works just swing by the stream sometime:P

does builds like this work in pvp?

FrownyClown.8402:

does builds like this work in pvp?

In a not-being-sarcastic way, anything works in WvW and PvP, there are just different requirements for being good. One example; I like to roam on melee in WvW because it has excellent sustained mobility. But it has no teles, so the mobility isn’t as good as a thief in PvP.

FrownyClown.8402:

does builds like this work in pvp?

… sort of.

The Valk version is very heard to play because you only have an anti-burst buffer and sustained pressure will nuke you. You can burst things pretty fast in theory, but in reality your spikes are so hard to land you will find yourself out-sustained by pretty much everyone.

The Cavalier version does pretty well at dragging stuff out vs power builds but gets melted by condi builds. It works decently at +1’ing team fights and is mobile enough to decap, but the loss in power really affects your ability to kill stuff before you get +1’d yourself when holding a side.

The Bunkery Crusader/Sentinel/Soldier versions can hold onto stuff for a long time and can hand out some boons, but your outgoing support is outclassed by other bunkers and you have a much harder time against multiple opponents, mainly because the range on BW is so short.

You can make all of them work relatively effectively even in ranked at the lower/middle levels of play, but they do nothing that isn’t done better by another class’ build.

The reason why double melee ranger works in WvW roaming is your ability to set the distance from your enemy at will with Swoop/Hornet Sting/Monarch’s Leap, but that’s significantly negated by the fact you’re contesting for points.

What you’re left with is decent damage, decent evade/blocks, an immob or 2, a handful of cc.

Its not terrible but it does nothing well enough to truly compete with the meta builds.

I still keep playing them, but that’s because I don’t give a toss about my MMR or anything like that, and I just flat out enjoy the playstyle.

blitzkrieg.2451:

I watched the same video, he dodged because that is a burst ele with s/f, and if he gets teleport bursted he will die. It’s called anticipation, not random dodging. If you fight a thief and engage him, you dodge sometimes at the beginning in ANTICIPATION of him stealing from you, but the dodge is far from random. Please know engagement rules against first burst classes. BESIDES, this whole argument is irrelevant. You’re most likely a bad player and if you want to duel me in game to prove something then just do it. I got all day to duel. Show me how good you actually are instead of spouting in the forums because until then I’m tired of responding to trash players who are bad at this game.

The vid is juste an exemple. When you anticipate something that doesnt happen, you waste your dodge period. Even the best players can waste their dodges, that’s all am saying. It’s like the list of simpleton évidences you’re talking about wich roamers are plainly aware of.

I am just a ranger roamer for 3 years ankitten ot talking about myself.

Since the beginning you’re off topic and now you turn this into a western movie. Funny Guy.

LughLongArm.5460:

PotatoVeg(Floppy) – shout melee ranger – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hp5R1taNIk

FOX – survival/signet melee ranger – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxMXx63pWxk

Josh Glad – regen melee ranger – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=my2hQ57vuhU

WIZZO – hybrid melee ranger ? – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMaweKeLg6c

Really like the variety of builds and different play styles. I don’t think such versatility exist in any other profession( I might be wrong).

Ignoring the SPvP kitten stroking this turned into…

I was double melee long ago, inspired by some fantastic edits by “Exploits.” Maybe the newer melee rangers will enjoy some old school double melee clips: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfEWpvAlu68

If it’s as good as you guys are saying I might have to give it another shot. My old build was pretty regen heavy though, and its my understanding that with the changes Natural Healing no longer supports the ranger, just the pet, and that huge boon durations for perma regen uptime (short of resounding timbre / guard spam) are harder to achieve, especially considering the Rejuvenation Minor Trait nerf?

Hi man, there are much more ways now to get prema regen compared to old builds.
HS+ the traps trait = 100% regen uptime
RT+ we heal as one and rampage as one(no need for guard spam).
oakhear slave on lower CD( just a filler for extra regen)
Rejuvenation Minor Trait – (not exacly nerf, its on much lower CD now)
Lingering magic give ATM 100% boon duration to pets, so fren hound with both NM and BM, will give 20sec regen on 20 sec CD.
OFC u still have dwayna rune and the outstanding defender rune.

There is also the interesting windborne notes + WH + clarion bond. If I can ever drag myself back for some serious build developing, that will be my next project.