Guild Wars 2

So, after seeing the damage numbers with the dagger, I think it’s pretty safe to say it is not a DPS spec, it’s got more control options though and the support options it provides are quite limited (assuming 50% duration on Leader of the Pack) and we already have the Druid as a healing support spec.

So what is the point of the Soulbeast? What role can it perform that we cannot already do? I’m not seeing it.

Edit: Edited control options to reflect reality.

Edit: I think some people are taking this post as a negative, I’m not saying Soulbeast is bad, but asking the question of what role can it perform, since to me it seems as though it is not clear cut and is making a Jack-of-All-Trades class into a Better-Jack-of-All-Trades.

Go beast mode on peoples kitten

Allowing the ranger to operate in areas where it was heavily punished before? Like frontline in WvW or condi melee balls in PvP. Seems like it can fulfill a similar roll to dps warrior in WvW. It has the sustain and damage options for it now and it can combine with the pet when it gets hot and bring it back out to down leave hwen its no longer necessary.

Having your usefulness cut out at random times is rather painful. And the nature of pets dieing forces rangers to choose specific pets in PvP environments. Ones that are naturally more likely to survive assuming the player isnt running the 1 shot build.

But you probably already new this. Soulbeast for me seems like a fairly PvP based elite spec. Similar to the spellbreaker

As for not offering control options. Your flat out wrong. Being able to double up on wing buffet for breakbars as well as double canine leaps on top of our own hard CC makes soulbeast potentially a CC monster. There is also prelude lash which is an aoe pull. Offering another form of CC there.

From how you worded your post I have to assume your talking from a PvE perspective so lets go with that.

As said before soulbeast might as well be named controlbeast. Its got alot of it on near instant cast times which can be weaved in an out of combat rotations as necessary.

Soulbeast also has very high quickness uptime. Making it less reliant on a chronomancer for its damage which is nice. Especially if your pugging.

Soulbeast can also provide high burst healing. When combined with say a Jaccaranda. And all with near 0 healing power due to the flat 25% bonus to healing. Its not a healer. But it offers these tools with minimal loss on there offpet.

But lets look at damage. Currently the rangers main weapon is sword. Despite sword being a power weapon and our highest dps build being condi.

Its likely that having a condi mainhand weapon will offer a signifcant damage boost. Keep in mind the numbers we saw in the livestream were NOT from a condi build which I fealt was a little strange. Dagger will also be our first aggressive mainhand weapon. (All others this point are rather defensive in nature. A Ranged axe as well as evade heavy swords and greatswords.)

If your asking if it will replace druid? No. But its not supposed to. Well have to wait on numbers to see what SOULBEAST is actually able to do. But the pure versatility of it makes me doubt itl be useless.

Shadelang.3012:

Allowing the ranger to operate in areas where it was heavily punished before? Like frontline in WvW or condi melee balls in PvP. Seems like it can fulfill a similar roll to dps warrior in WvW. It has the sustain and damage options for it now and it can combine with the pet when it gets hot and bring it back out to down leave hwen its no longer necessary.

Having your usefulness cut out at random times is rather painful. And the nature of pets dieing forces rangers to choose specific pets in PvP environments. Ones that are naturally more likely to survive assuming the player isnt running the 1 shot build.

But you probably already new this. Soulbeast for me seems like a fairly PvP based elite spec. Similar to the spellbreaker

As for not offering control options. Your flat out wrong. Being able to double up on wing buffet for breakbars as well as double canine leaps on top of our own hard CC makes soulbeast potentially a CC monster. There is also prelude lash which is an aoe pull. Offering another form of CC there.

From how you worded your post I have to assume your talking from a PvE perspective so lets go with that.

As said before soulbeast might as well be named controlbeast. Its got alot of it on near instant cast times which can be weaved in an out of combat rotations as necessary.

Soulbeast also has very high quickness uptime. Making it less reliant on a chronomancer for its damage which is nice. Especially if your pugging.

Soulbeast can also provide high burst healing. When combined with say a Jaccaranda. And all with near 0 healing power due to the flat 25% bonus to healing. Its not a healer. But it offers these tools with minimal loss on there offpet.

But lets look at damage. Currently the rangers main weapon is sword. Despite sword being a power weapon and our highest dps build being condi.

Its likely that having a condi mainhand weapon will offer a signifcant damage boost. Keep in mind the numbers we saw in the livestream were NOT from a condi build which I fealt was a little strange. Dagger will also be our first aggressive mainhand weapon. (All others this point are rather defensive in nature. A Ranged axe as well as evade heavy swords and greatswords.)

If your asking if it will replace druid? No. But its not supposed to. Well have to wait on numbers to see what SOULBEAST is actually able to do. But the pure versatility of it makes me doubt itl be useless.

Frontline in WvW is not a role though. It’s a play position. And yes, it will be far better option there for us purely because you can hide the pet from the AoE.

I didn’t realise the pet/beast skills had separate cds until I just started watching that twitch stream a few mins ago. More control options is great and was really surprised to hear that from Irenio.

Not just referring to PvE, my comment on support was more WvW oriented, I didn’t make that clear.

Not asking if it will replace Druid or suggesting it will not be good, or being negative, I’m just asking the question of what is it’s role? It doesn’t really seem to fit anything. It’s like it takes a Jack of all Trades class and makes it a Better Jack of All Trades.

The soulbeast does not offer a new role, it offer a kind of freedom through a new gameplay.

You still do damage but in a slightly different way.
You still support but have a better grasp on support skill that were used by AI.
You still can take a beating but the soulbeast offer you more options to negate damage.
You can still use a pet but your bond with it is stronger and can now support you in a different manner by merging with you, giving you an unique buff and an access to it’s racial skills.

It’s like a direct upgrade of what you could already do. It’s not a role but a strengthened gameplay.

Edit : you could say that it’s like berserker to the warrior. It has no real role but was a direct upgrade of the warrior as a whole.

I have the same question as you, HA. And I think that the answer (at least for now) is versatility seems to be the point. It’s a “what you make of it” spec. The pets you choose will have a lot of impact on what you can do, the dagger is available for a condi spec, but you can use whatever, and the stances offer another type of utility skill. But it does appear to lack any obvious role, and maybe that’s the point?

bearshaman.3421:

I have the same question as you, HA. And I think that the answer (at least for now) is versatility seems to be the point. It’s a “what you make of it” spec. The pets you choose will have a lot of impact on what you can do, the dagger is available for a condi spec, but you can use whatever, and the stances offer another type of utility skill. But it does appear to lack any obvious role, and maybe that’s the point?

That may very well be the idea, yes. In my opinion Ranger was always supposed to pick their pets based on the situation, creating flexibility. Unfortunately it ultimately turned out differently due to the nature of various modes, making only a small amount of pets actually useful. The Soulbeast could be seen as the spiritual successor of that original idea of offering flexibility.

In any case, I, for one, am looking forward to having some more CC available, especially vs all those breakbars that mobs have nowadays.

Feels like beastmode does not do as much damage as the Pet and the player together do, It’s damage seems kind of… eh at best? I dont know just something I noticed, could be something to look into.

It will replace condi ranger in PvE.

Thornwolf.9721:

Feels like beastmode does not do as much damage as the Pet and the player together do, It’s damage seems kind of… eh at best? I dont know just something I noticed, could be something to look into.

You are not supposed to stay in beastmode all the time.

Thornwolf.9721:

Feels like beastmode does not do as much damage as the Pet and the player together do, It’s damage seems kind of… eh at best? I dont know just something I noticed, could be something to look into.

Months ago I had proposed an e-spec that was very close to this one with a “merge mode” and thieves venoms which are really close from what stances do here.

My focus was more on damages and after pondering a lot, I had come to chose an “on hit” effect instead of the buff the soulbeast gain from merging with his beast. The “on hit” effect had 1 second ICD and was based on the damage the pet would have done by autoattacking. I believe that it would have been closer to what’s needed to make a power dps ranger competitive.

Any clue how this will work with the traits in Beastmastery and elsewhere that add effects to the F2 command?

Miellyn.6847:

It will replace condi ranger in PvE.

Thornwolf.9721:

Feels like beastmode does not do as much damage as the Pet and the player together do, It’s damage seems kind of… eh at best? I dont know just something I noticed, could be something to look into.

You are not supposed to stay in beastmode all the time.

Do you think soulbeast will have a place in raid meta? Soulbeast dps>cranger dps?

It will not replace condi druid in raids due to GotLis just to good. But it could be a very good control/Condi spec for other parts of the game and it looks like a very strong hybrid spec.

Lukas.6153:

Miellyn.6847:

It will replace condi ranger in PvE.

Thornwolf.9721:

Feels like beastmode does not do as much damage as the Pet and the player together do, It’s damage seems kind of… eh at best? I dont know just something I noticed, could be something to look into.

You are not supposed to stay in beastmode all the time.

Do you think soulbeast will have a place in raid meta? Soulbeast dps>cranger dps?

Yes. It needs verification that the grandmaster is percentage based but the 10% condition duriation alone is better than the entire beastmastery line especially on moving targets when the pet hits much less. The food nerf hit ranger the most as we use 3 conditions not 2 like all other condi classes.

I’d imagine that Soulbeast could be pretty good at tanking, not to mention it brings a lot of support without sacrificng all of its damage like druid does.

Durzlla.6295:

I’d imagine that Soulbeast could be pretty good at tanking, not to mention it brings a lot of support without sacrificng all of its damage like druid does.

Tanking in PvE is monopolised by chrono. Soulbeast has nothing to keep up with countless chrono’s evades, mass distortions and blocks. Not to mention the only unique thing soulbeast can bring to the party are stanses, and they are currently meh.

Considering soulbeast’s role… I don’t know. It should be a DPS e-spec, but so far it looks very weak even compaired to the nerfed core condi. If nothing changes rangers will be taking soulbeast over beastmastery just because of the traits, ignore the dagger, ignore the beastmode and just dps with the pet out.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

So, after seeing the damage numbers with the dagger, I think it’s pretty safe to say it is not a DPS spec, it’s got no more control options that we already have and the support options it provides are quite limited (assuming 50% duration on Leader of the Pack) and we already have the Druid as a healing support spec.

So what is the point of the Soulbeast? What role can it perform that we cannot already do? I’m not seeing it.

Whatever role you want to play it in. Is that a glib answer? Not if you consider that Anet doesn’t make elite specs based on ‘filling a role’ to begin with; no elite spec exists with the sole purpose to do any particular thing in any particular game mode. They simply decide on a concept and implement it. If players find that concept good for a particular role in a certain aspect of the game, they use it.

Soul beast will never be a frontline spec. The damage is utterly pathetic compared to a warrior, and they bring hideously long cd’s on cc while warrior and guardian cc are so much shorter cd’s. To top it off soul beast brings very little in team utility.

Obtena.7952:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

So, after seeing the damage numbers with the dagger, I think it’s pretty safe to say it is not a DPS spec, it’s got no more control options that we already have and the support options it provides are quite limited (assuming 50% duration on Leader of the Pack) and we already have the Druid as a healing support spec.

So what is the point of the Soulbeast? What role can it perform that we cannot already do? I’m not seeing it.

Whatever role you want to play it in. Is that a glib answer? Not if you consider that Anet doesn’t make elite specs based on ‘filling a role’ to begin with; no elite spec exists with the sole purpose to do any particular thing in any particular game mode. They simply decide on a concept and implement it. If players find that concept good for a particular role in a certain aspect of the game, they use it.

If by glib you mean thoughtless and insincere, then yeah, it sure is. Most of the eSpecs exist to perform a role the class didn’t have previously or focus moreso on one they did poorly.

When they decide on a concept, it is likely the role that is decided first, that is crux of the concept. Druid is a healer, Tempest is support (hence the recent nerfs to help that portion work better) Deadeye is going to be ranged DPS, Firebrand is support and condition damage, Scourge is support etc etc.

Soulbeast seems to not have taken this route and is simply a straight upgrade of core ranger, changing gameplay little. This is not a bad thing, necessarily.

I think it was more or less meant to give the ranger more options, particularly in cases where pets aren’t always helpful (larger fights/mass AoE) while opening up options for people who aren’t super fond of the pet concept. Most notably, this is helpful for large-scale WvW where the ranger has always been absolutely worthless, even moreso than thief.

Does it fill a role? Not really. Not for raids per se. And that’s not necessarily a bad thing. People need to recognize what’s played in raids will just be numerically optimal. It doesn’t matter what the release timing is. If SB is or isn’t a part of the hardcore raid scene, that’s allowed to be okay.

Some classes, specs, and builds will likely get left out of a meta entirely because of it. I’d actually like to see less pigeon-holing by design in general. So long as a ranger has an option to be considered (and not just bad) for a piece of a content, I think that alone is a big step in the right direction in general.

I don’t like the druid, but I also don’t raid and would never try to force myself into a raid with it if it wasn’t wanted to even the slightest degree. And the fault there for not inviting a person by their build is mostly on the community at the end of the day.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Obtena.7952:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

So, after seeing the damage numbers with the dagger, I think it’s pretty safe to say it is not a DPS spec, it’s got no more control options that we already have and the support options it provides are quite limited (assuming 50% duration on Leader of the Pack) and we already have the Druid as a healing support spec.

So what is the point of the Soulbeast? What role can it perform that we cannot already do? I’m not seeing it.

Whatever role you want to play it in. Is that a glib answer? Not if you consider that Anet doesn’t make elite specs based on ‘filling a role’ to begin with; no elite spec exists with the sole purpose to do any particular thing in any particular game mode. They simply decide on a concept and implement it. If players find that concept good for a particular role in a certain aspect of the game, they use it.

If by glib you mean thoughtless and insincere, then yeah, it sure is. Most of the eSpecs exist to perform a role the class didn’t have previously or focus moreso on one they did poorly.

When they decide on a concept, it is likely the role that is decided first, that is crux of the concept. Druid is a healer, Tempest is support (hence the recent nerfs to help that portion work better) Deadeye is going to be ranged DPS, Firebrand is support and condition damage, Scourge is support etc etc.

Soulbeast seems to not have taken this route and is simply a straight upgrade of core ranger, changing gameplay little. This is not a bad thing, necessarily.

No, they fill a role. That’s different than existing to be something. People make especs more than they are; they are simply an option to play the class differently. Anet definitely gives them a focus, but the intention isn’t to have a specific purpose for especs for specific aspects of the game.

That difference is subtle but significant; it’s the difference between Anet saying “here is a spec for doing this content” vs. giving players the option to play how they want. You’re illustrating that difference perfectly … you don’t see what Soulbeast is for, so you have the option to not use it as opposed to Anet saying "Soulbeast is your <<THIS ROLE>> in <<THIS CONTENT>> … and having people complain it’s insufficient as well as making the spec difficult to adjust for content outside of that role in that content. Don’t overthink this.

Finally! I get to play Free Bag in wvw and pvp! I’m so pumped right now!

Obtena.7952:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Obtena.7952:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

So, after seeing the damage numbers with the dagger, I think it’s pretty safe to say it is not a DPS spec, it’s got no more control options that we already have and the support options it provides are quite limited (assuming 50% duration on Leader of the Pack) and we already have the Druid as a healing support spec.

So what is the point of the Soulbeast? What role can it perform that we cannot already do? I’m not seeing it.

Whatever role you want to play it in. Is that a glib answer? Not if you consider that Anet doesn’t make elite specs based on ‘filling a role’ to begin with; no elite spec exists with the sole purpose to do any particular thing in any particular game mode. They simply decide on a concept and implement it. If players find that concept good for a particular role in a certain aspect of the game, they use it.

If by glib you mean thoughtless and insincere, then yeah, it sure is. Most of the eSpecs exist to perform a role the class didn’t have previously or focus moreso on one they did poorly.

When they decide on a concept, it is likely the role that is decided first, that is crux of the concept. Druid is a healer, Tempest is support (hence the recent nerfs to help that portion work better) Deadeye is going to be ranged DPS, Firebrand is support and condition damage, Scourge is support etc etc.

Soulbeast seems to not have taken this route and is simply a straight upgrade of core ranger, changing gameplay little. This is not a bad thing, necessarily.

No, they fill a role. That’s different than existing to be something. People make especs more than they are; they are simply an option to play the class differently. Anet definitely gives them a focus, but the intention isn’t to have a specific purpose for especs for specific aspects of the game.

That difference is subtle but significant; it’s the difference between Anet saying “here is a spec for doing this content” vs. giving players the option to play how they want. You’re illustrating that difference perfectly … you don’t see what Soulbeast is for, so you have the option to not use it as opposed to Anet saying "Soulbeast is your <<THIS ROLE>> in <<THIS CONTENT>> … and having people complain it’s insufficient as well as making the spec difficult to adjust for content outside of that role in that content. Don’t overthink this.

We are making the same point. Yes, they fill a role. I’m not saying they are existing to do something specific. I never said their intention was to have a specific purpose for especs for specific aspects of the game.

They are saying “Here is a spec that is good at doing X, go play.”.

What I can’t see for Soulbeast is what that X is. The X being it’s role.

Not sure how you can’t see what the X is … it’s just the concept of the spec. The role is whatever you decide to use the spec for.

Obtena.7952:

Not sure how you can’t see what the X is … it’s just the concept of the spec. The role is whatever you decide to use the spec for.

F R E E B A G that’s the concept behind this spec. I’m so excited to try it out in September when the new expac comes out!!!

Sure wipe in raids, free bag otherwise. it seems so much fun!

Obtena.7952:

Not sure how you can’t see what the X is … it’s just the concept of the spec. The role is whatever you decide to use the spec for.

If the spec is not good enough in any aspect of the game its role is “not to be played” and its concept is fairly bad. Just like scrapper from HoT.

I love soulbeast so far, especially in PvP where you can ultra combo people to death lol

Ider.1276:

Obtena.7952:

Not sure how you can’t see what the X is … it’s just the concept of the spec. The role is whatever you decide to use the spec for.

If the spec is not good enough in any aspect of the game its role is “not to be played” and its concept is fairly bad. Just like scrapper from HoT.

Except people play scrappers and all the other specs as well … so your theory doesn’t match the reality of the game. You can’t assume that all people play things because they meet some high threshold of performance. The concept of a spec is not necessarily to fill a gap or make it ‘the best’ of anything. In fact, I would say it’s almost never that. For some people, playing ‘the best’ isn’t relevant.

Luckily, you have choice. if you feel a spec has ‘no role’, then you don’t need to play it. It’s simply a conceptual option to play the class differently. That’s all espec was ever intended to do.

I really wanted to like this espec. Like you have no idea. I love the idea of shapeshifting. Despite he lack of actually shifting, it’s not bad. But honestly I think this espec serves one primary purpose, maybe it’s only purpose.

Appease people who want a petless ranger.

That’s it.

Everything it can do, some other profession/spec can do better. It’s very versatile, but that means it lacks any direction or obvious purpose. This is the only thing I can see for why you would want to play this over other builds.

It’s appeasement. I hope it works. I was getting tired of all the complaint threads.

Ider.1276:

Durzlla.6295:

I’d imagine that Soulbeast could be pretty good at tanking, not to mention it brings a lot of support without sacrificng all of its damage like druid does.

Tanking in PvE is monopolised by chrono. Soulbeast has nothing to keep up with countless chrono’s evades, mass distortions and blocks. Not to mention the only unique thing soulbeast can bring to the party are stanses, and they are currently meh.

Considering soulbeast’s role… I don’t know. It should be a DPS e-spec, but so far it looks very weak even compaired to the nerfed core condi. If nothing changes rangers will be taking soulbeast over beastmastery just because of the traits, ignore the dagger, ignore the beastmode and just dps with the pet out.

Ranger was my first and arguably my main (though I play everything in wvw). I must confess I am already guilty of just stat grabbing soulbeast for the dps and ignoring everything else. I go into beat mode for mobility, heals, and saving myself from getting downed; that’s about it. Kinda missing that staff 3 though.