what is the new elite class role (pve)?
Let’s see…
For Raid/ Fractal, it seems that it’s far from a good dps spec, so not a dps spec.
For support, most stances last for like 6 sec, so even if you share it , it’s only 3 seconds max, and their functionality is worse than boons and shout. (Bear Stance is ok I guess?)
Not a support class like Druid for sure.
For PVE roaming, vanilla ranger has higher survivability in general, but if the enemies are very weak, then you can merge it 24/7 and spam GS I guess? Hard to judge this one cuz open world is not hard to begin with.
For WvW, I guess it works cuz ranger generally suck in WvW, but still, it’s nowhere compare to other WvW meta class yet. Roaming wise it’s worse than Druid that’s for sure. Maul burst can caught some clueless newbie off guard though.
For PVP it’s worse than Druid too it seems because it lack sustains in general.
Maul burst can caught some newbies off guard too though.
soul beast has no specific rule, it has only new mechanice and nothing more .
condi build will stay the same , power build got buffed but we ill see if sic em going to be nerf then basiclly soul beast will not offer any thing
I have to disagree with most things the 2 people above me posted.
Soulbeast offers the ranger more than any other elite spec currently in the game does.
It gives you so many options, it’s a jack of all spec basically.
- For PvE condi and hybrid dps specs will use Soulbeast over Core ranger
- Power ranger could be a thing, but I honestly think Soulbeast was made with the new hybrid damage set in mind.
- I don’t know why you would think soulbeast is weak in roaming, if you think that you obviously haven’t looked close enought to the Beastmaster trait line and how it benefits Soulbeast greatly. Or how the shouts benefit you when in Beastmode.
- For WvW and PvP Bear stance has to be the best thing that could happen for rangers, you have an equal stun break trait as Druid’s CA has, stances and its mastery are actually very potent in WvW.
In general Soulbeast gives you a lot of options. How all that is going to play out in the end is just a guessing game, but you can’t look at soulbeast and think it is worse then a core spec, because it is not.
I have to disagree with most things the 2 people above me posted.
Soulbeast offers the ranger more than any other elite spec currently in the game does.
It gives you so many options, it’s a jack of all spec basically.- For PvE condi and hybrid dps specs will use Soulbeast over Core ranger
- Power ranger could be a thing, but I honestly think Soulbeast was made with the new hybrid damage set in mind.- I don’t know why you would think soulbeast is weak in roaming, if you think that you obviously haven’t looked close enought to the Beastmaster trait line and how it benefits Soulbeast greatly. Or how the shouts benefit you when in Beastmode.
- For WvW and PvP Bear stance has to be the best thing that could happen for rangers, you have an equal stun break trait as Druid’s CA has, stances and its mastery are actually very potent in WvW.
In general Soulbeast gives you a lot of options. How all that is going to play out in the end is just a guessing game, but you can’t look at soulbeast and think it is worse then a core spec, because it is not.
i really have to disagree with you , itried play power soul beast and in the end beside F3 and smock scale F2 its not good, no reasone to take stance
and as for condi no reason to take dagger … and stance
i want to add its not worse then core it is at the same lv as core .
it is not an e spec
I have to disagree with most things the 2 people above me posted.
Soulbeast offers the ranger more than any other elite spec currently in the game does.
It gives you so many options, it’s a jack of all spec basically.- For PvE condi and hybrid dps specs will use Soulbeast over Core ranger
- Power ranger could be a thing, but I honestly think Soulbeast was made with the new hybrid damage set in mind.- I don’t know why you would think soulbeast is weak in roaming, if you think that you obviously haven’t looked close enought to the Beastmaster trait line and how it benefits Soulbeast greatly. Or how the shouts benefit you when in Beastmode.
- For WvW and PvP Bear stance has to be the best thing that could happen for rangers, you have an equal stun break trait as Druid’s CA has, stances and its mastery are actually very potent in WvW.
In general Soulbeast gives you a lot of options. How all that is going to play out in the end is just a guessing game, but you can’t look at soulbeast and think it is worse then a core spec, because it is not.
i really have to disagree with you , itried play power soul beast and in the end beside F3 and smock scale F2 its not good, no reasone to take stance
and as for condi no reason to take dagger … and stance
You are probably one of those people that stay in Beastmode all the time, thats where you went wrong.
Dagger has nothing to do with Soulbeast, it is not what defines Soulbeast, sure its the weapon you can use when picking Soulbeast but it does not mean you have to use it.
Also, people really haven’t looked at the dagger close enough. The power scaling on dagger skills is the same as sword, sword chain is same duration as full chain of dagger.
Dagger is a very nice hybrid weapon, applying vul, bleed and poison, aswell as having the same power scaling as our strongest power main hand we have access to atm (Sword).
Also don’t forget Ambidexterity (Wilderness Survival top trait) also states " Dagger", where normally we only had the choice of dagger offhand, we can now use a mainhand dagger and still gain this bonus, so you can have x/Torch on 1 weapon set and dagger/x on another (axe comes to mind for both x’s with Honed Axes traited)
Moa stance is one of the strongest boon skills in the game (probably the strongest actually)
Bear Stance is some much needed condi cleanse that ranger lacked on their heal skills.
Dolyak stance (when fixed) combined with the stance mastery is very powerfull in WvW.
Stances are Utility skills, you don’t need to use everything, or anything at that, they give you a lot of build options. And this is the same for the traits of soulbeast and the countless of pet/merge options.
So I think it’s best to agree to disagree because as you see I have my own thoughts on the effectivness of Soulbeast.
I think for high level PvE (T4 Fractals/Raids) soulbeast will likely be one of the strongest DPS specs using the condition-build. The power-build will probably be weaker on bosses, but far more effective against smaller mobs and groups.
We might see some balancing changes that would hit power soulbeast hard, but I can’t imagine that the condi-build is ever going to be considered weak.
I have to disagree with most things the 2 people above me posted.
Soulbeast offers the ranger more than any other elite spec currently in the game does.
It gives you so many options, it’s a jack of all spec basically.- For PvE condi and hybrid dps specs will use Soulbeast over Core ranger
- Power ranger could be a thing, but I honestly think Soulbeast was made with the new hybrid damage set in mind.- I don’t know why you would think soulbeast is weak in roaming, if you think that you obviously haven’t looked close enought to the Beastmaster trait line and how it benefits Soulbeast greatly. Or how the shouts benefit you when in Beastmode.
- For WvW and PvP Bear stance has to be the best thing that could happen for rangers, you have an equal stun break trait as Druid’s CA has, stances and its mastery are actually very potent in WvW.
In general Soulbeast gives you a lot of options. How all that is going to play out in the end is just a guessing game, but you can’t look at soulbeast and think it is worse then a core spec, because it is not.
i really have to disagree with you , itried play power soul beast and in the end beside F3 and smock scale F2 its not good, no reasone to take stance
and as for condi no reason to take dagger … and stanceYou are probably one of those people that stay in Beastmode all the time, thats where you went wrong.
Dagger has nothing to do with Soulbeast, it is not what defines Soulbeast, sure its the weapon you can use when picking Soulbeast but it does not mean you have to use it.
Also, people really haven’t looked at the dagger close enough. The power scaling on dagger skills is the same as sword, sword chain is same duration as full chain of dagger.
Dagger is a very nice hybrid weapon, applying vul, bleed and poison, aswell as having the same power scaling as our strongest power main hand we have access to atm (Sword).
Also don’t forget Ambidexterity (Wilderness Survival top trait) also states " Dagger", where normally we only had the choice of dagger offhand, we can now use a mainhand dagger and still gain this bonus, so you can have x/Torch on 1 weapon set and dagger/x on another (axe comes to mind for both x’s with Honed Axes traited)Moa stance is one of the strongest boon skills in the game (probably the strongest actually)
Bear Stance is some much needed condi cleanse that ranger lacked on their heal skills.
Dolyak stance (when fixed) combined with the stance mastery is very powerfull in WvW.Stances are Utility skills, you don’t need to use everything, or anything at that, they give you a lot of build options. And this is the same for the traits of soulbeast and the countless of pet/merge options.
So I think it’s best to agree to disagree because as you see I have my own thoughts on the effectivness of Soulbeast.
Dagger nice hybrid?
More like inferior power scaling AND condition scaling at the same time with very short range and slow attack speed.
It’s literally the worse version of axe with less power damage and less condition damage, no cc, no evade, no gap closer, no aoe, no nothing.
Mao Stance strongest buff in the game?
Sure, granting short duration of protection and and fury is the strongest buff in the game…. Ok then… (Chrono and Druid look at you sympathetically)
If you want protection, I’d grab Protect me instead cuz it’s instant cast and break stun, and can use mid-way while I cast We Heal as One and grant double duration of protection instantly without breaking the flow.
Bear stance is pretty nice on paper, but when you factor in the CD (25 seconds), it’s not as good as you expected. 16 secs CD boon sharing We Heal as One is still miles better than this.
Doyak Stance is bugged so you can’t say anything about it yet, it’s all your speculation.
Rest of the stances are just terrible/ mediocre at best.
Do I need to mention 80% of the pet f2 and f3 skills are down right terrible?
They conveniently scale down all the f2 and f3 coefficient to make sure they do no damage whatsoever.
So when 80% of the package of that new E-spekittenerally suck, and their main new weapon does not appeal to the user one bit, how can I get excited about this specialization?
…Also, people really haven’t looked at the dagger close enough. The power scaling on dagger skills is the same as sword, sword chain is same duration as full chain of dagger.
Dagger is a very nice hybrid weapon, applying vul, bleed and poison, aswell as having the same power scaling as our strongest power main hand we have access to atm (Sword).
The power scaling on the Dagger is nowhere near the Sword; On the sword, Slash and Crippling Thrust scale at 0.7 and Precision Swipe scales at 0.8, while on the Dagger you have Groundwork Gouge, Leading Swipe and Serpent Stab all with a 0.4 scale and Deadly Delivery is just 0.5.
Let’s do the math for a power build, no precision or crits.
Sword – 1050*2550 * 0.7 / 2500 (armor) * 2 + 1050*2550 * 0.8 / 2500 = 2356 for the whole chain.
Dagger – 981*2550 * 0.4 / 2500 * 3 + 981*2550 * 0.5 / 2500 = 1701 for the whole chain.
Ok, so it’s 28% less power damage, what about adding condi damage? Let’s use Viper gear instead.
Sword – 1050*2057 * 0.7 / 2500 (armor) * 2 + 1050*2057 * 0.8 / 2500 = 1900 for the whole chain.
Dagger – 981*2057 * 0.4 / 2500 * 3 + 981*2057 * 0.5 / 2500 = 1372 for the whole chain.
Now the condis – 6s Poison, 6s Bleed * 1.42 = 8.52 ticks per bleed and poison. Bleed damage = 93 per tick, Poison = 105. Total condi damage = 1772.16
Dagger total in Vipers = 3144.16
Now we take crits into account and the sword in zerker with the dagger in viper. I’ll use the chain x 100 for ease of calculation.
Sword – 1050*2550 * 0.7 / 2500 (armor) * 2 + 1050*2550 * 0.8 / 2500 = 2356 for the whole chain.
50% crit chance.
220% crit damage.
50 AA chains = 117800
50 AA chains @ 220% crit = 259160
Total = 376,960
Dagger – Dagger – 981*2057 * 0.4 / 2500 * 3 + 981*2057 * 0.5 / 2500 = 1372 for the whole chain.
35% crit chance
150% crit damage
65 AA chains = 89180
35 AA chains @ 150% crit = 72030
100 AA chains worth of condi = 177216 (That’s going to take 10+ minutes to deal it’s damage)
Total = 338,426.
So, it’s only about 12% better with sword/berzerker over dagger/viper but the more ferocity you add the better the sword will become due to higher crit chance and base values. SO when you add in traits like Vicious Quarry, Honed Axes and SotW, sword starts looking very much better.
Although, if you drop the Expertise and run the grievers set, the damage will be worse off for the dagger as you will be dropping 42% of the condi damage away for 42% more critical damage, keep in mind the lower crit chance though. Although, for most things I doubt it will be an issue, if dagger gets a few tweaks then it may be fun to play at least and while a hybrid may not be top DPS, it may be enjoyable.
I may actually calculate the damage of the grievers set with a hybrid dagger build later on.
(edited by Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582)
There is no condition scaling lol.. all conditions deal exactly the same damage all the time, its the duration and stacks that make some numbers apear so big compared to others.
Here a very simple example:
Dagger attack-chain#2 applies 1 stack of bleed for 3 seconds = 66 damage(3sec worth of bleed)
Dagger attack #2 applies 4 stacks of bleed for 6 seconds = 528 damage(24sec worth of bleed)
needless to say dividing 528 by the difference in seconds (24/3 =8) you get to 66.
You can do this for all conditions skills in the game.
now power does scale, and while it is lower on the dagger attack chain, dagger chain vs sword chain is only a difference of 0.5 over the whole chain (same duration chain), and that is not even counting the 4 vul stacks you can keep up with the chain and the condi damage it adds.
And this is why I said, dagger is a strong hybrid weapon, which it is.
Don’t even mention the range lol.. all daggers have a range of 130… which is the same as swords..
It’s attack chain is the same duration of that of sword, but doing 4 attacks instead of 3, so fast (hard math.. i know).
Funny that you mention gap closers.. sword only has one if you evade backwards first.. while dagger 3 is actually a gap closer (however small), and sure, it does not have evade’s, but you get quickness instead.
Moa Stance:
You obviously missed the 66% boon duration increase on Moa Stance… which is why I said it is probably the strongest boon skill in the game.
Doyak Stance:
If you even bothered to test the demo and stress test you would’ve figured out it is actually very easy to get this to work.. I guess you never tried out nature Magic (its 2nd minor).
You also mention 80% of the F2 and F3 skills being terrible. I am not sure we tried out the same demo here.. Or have you not even bothered to try out the gazelle, any bird or tiger? just to name a few.
And I hope you are aware that the biggest thing about soulbeast’s power actually comes from the passive stat increases you get when merged..
…Also, people really haven’t looked at the dagger close enough. The power scaling on dagger skills is the same as sword, sword chain is same duration as full chain of dagger.
Dagger is a very nice hybrid weapon, applying vul, bleed and poison, aswell as having the same power scaling as our strongest power main hand we have access to atm (Sword).The power scaling on the Dagger is nowhere near the Sword; On the sword, Slash and Crippling Thrust scale at 0.7 and Precision Swipe scales at 0.8, while on the Dagger you have Groundwork Gouge, Leading Swipe and Serpent Stab all with a 0.4 scale and Deadly Delivery is just 0.5.
Let’s do the math for a power build, no precision or crits.
Sword – 1050*2550 * 0.7 / 2500 (armor) * 2 + 1050*2550 * 0.8 / 2500 = 2356 for the whole chain.
Dagger – 981*2550 * 0.4 / 2500 * 3 + 981*2550 * 0.5 / 2500 = 1701 for the whole chain.
Ok, so it’s 28% less power damage, what about adding condi damage? Let’s use Viper gear instead.
Sword – 1050*2057 * 0.7 / 2500 (armor) * 2 + 1050*2057 * 0.8 / 2500 = 1900 for the whole chain.
Dagger – 981*2057 * 0.4 / 2500 * 3 + 981*2057 * 0.5 / 2500 = 1372 for the whole chain.
Now the condis – 6s Poison, 6s Bleed * 1.42 = 8.52 ticks per bleed and poison. Bleed damage = 93 per tick, Poison = 105. Total condi damage = 1772.16
Dagger total in Vipers = 3144.16
Now we take crits into account and the sword in zerker with the dagger in viper. I’ll use the chain x 100 for ease of calculation.
Sword – 1050*2550 * 0.7 / 2500 (armor) * 2 + 1050*2550 * 0.8 / 2500 = 2356 for the whole chain.
50% crit chance.
220% crit damage.
50 AA chains = 117800
50 AA chains @ 220% crit = 259160
Total = 376,960Dagger – Dagger – 981*2057 * 0.4 / 2500 * 3 + 981*2057 * 0.5 / 2500 = 1372 for the whole chain.
35% crit chance
150% crit damage
65 AA chains = 89180
35 AA chains @ 150% crit = 72030
100 AA chains worth of condi = 177216 (That’s going to take 10+ minutes to deal it’s damage)
Total = 338,426.So, it’s only about 12% better with sword/berzerker over dagger/viper but the more ferocity you add the better the sword will become due to higher crit chance and base values. SO when you add in traits like Vicious Quarry, Honed Axes and SotW, sword starts looking very much better.
Although, if you drop the Expertise and run the grievers set, the damage will be worse off for the dagger as you will be dropping 42% of the condi damage away for 42% more critical damage, keep in mind the lower crit chance though. Although, for most things I doubt it will be an issue, if dagger gets a few tweaks then it may be fun to play at least and while a hybrid may not be top DPS, it may be enjoyable.
I may actually calculate the damage of the grievers set with a hybrid dagger build later on.
I don’t know how you calculate it, but dagger 4 hit combo is way slower than sword 3 hit combo, so the dps difference should be way bigger than your theoretical number.
You have to factor the time/ aftercast of each weapon.
You can’t just look at the tool tip and cast time of each attack and do the math, it’s not accurate at all.
You also have to factor in not finishing the 4 hit slow combo and have to use an alternative skill mid-way for better rotation, meaning you may lose the damage from that last hit because you have to use other skills first for better dps.
Dagger damage is worse than Axe.
(edited by Aomine.5012)
There is no condition scaling lol.. all conditions deal exactly the same damage all the time, its the duration and stacks that make some numbers apear so big compared to others.
Here a very simple example:
Dagger attack-chain#2 applies 1 stack of bleed for 3 seconds = 66 damage(3sec worth of bleed)
Dagger attack #2 applies 4 stacks of bleed for 6 seconds = 528 damage(24sec worth of bleed)
needless to say dividing 528 by the difference in seconds (24/3 =8) you get to 66.
You can do this for all conditions skills in the game.now power does scale, and while it is lower on the dagger attack chain, dagger chain vs sword chain is only a difference of 0.5 over the whole chain (same duration chain), and that is not even counting the 4 vul stacks you can keep up with the chain and the condi damage it adds.
And this is why I said, dagger is a strong hybrid weapon, which it is.
Don’t even mention the range lol.. all daggers have a range of 130… which is the same as swords..
It’s attack chain is the same duration of that of sword, but doing 4 attacks instead of 3, so fast (hard math.. i know).
Funny that you mention gap closers.. sword only has one if you evade backwards first.. while dagger 3 is actually a gap closer (however small), and sure, it does not have evade’s, but you get quickness instead.Moa Stance:
You obviously missed the 66% boon duration increase on Moa Stance… which is why I said it is probably the strongest boon skill in the game.Doyak Stance:
If you even bothered to test the demo and stress test you would’ve figured out it is actually very easy to get this to work.. I guess you never tried out nature Magic (its 2nd minor).You also mention 80% of the F2 and F3 skills being terrible. I am not sure we tried out the same demo here.. Or have you not even bothered to try out the gazelle, any bird or tiger? just to name a few.
And I hope you are aware that the biggest thing about soulbeast’s power actually comes from the passive stat increases you get when merged..
1st, my main build is Nature Magic + We Heal as One, that’s why I say Soulbeast is not good at all.
2nd , I’d take Revenant constant 33% boon duration increase for the WHOLE PARTY over 66% increase for 1/4 of the uptime on yourself only. (Or 3 second for party member) Hitting boon duration cap is not hard at all anyway if I grab Nature Magic and Leadership Rune and food. In fractal you also get 15% more boon duration. (I can reach 80% boon duration without outside help already, why do I need Moa stance again?)
That’s why I say you make it sounds like a big deal, but I would rather grab Protect me for roaming and Spirits/ glyph for party contents, NOT moa stance.
3rd, Dagger dps is terrible and the slow auto-attack chain mess up the rotation.
Most likely you won’t get that 4th main hit because it’s better to cast something else on CD instead of waiting for the 4th hit to land. If you actually try the weapon, there’s no way you can claim dagger 4 hit speed is same as sword 3 hit. It’s definitely slower.
You’re just theory crafting numbers instead of doing the field test when it’s available.
I said 80% of them are terrible exactly because I try them all.
Gauzzalla is that 20% sure, but doesn’t automatically make 80% of the other pets better.
(edited by Aomine.5012)
Heimskarl Ashfiend, I appreciate the calculations but how you got 981 vs 1050 (dagger/sword) is beyond me. The average damage of sword and dagger are exactly the same, averaging at 1000 on ascended gear.
Also all those calculations don’t take into account the 4% vul (or 8% if you have quickness) that the attack chain from dagger provides, sure sword has might, but you will be on 25 stacks of might anyway so that is useless).
Dagger is not a pile of crap like a lot of people seem to think is what I am trying to say. You won’t hear me argue against it needed a few tweaks here and there but to compleetly write it off.. nah.. not in my oppinion atleast
If you actually try the weapon, there’s no way you can claim dagger 4 hit speed is same as sword 3 hit. It’s definitely slower.
You’re just theory crafting numbers instead of doing the field test when it’s available.
I played Soulbeast all demo’s and stress tests, I did my fair share of testing in the ’ field’ .
You don’t need to “Theorycraft” anything, all it takes is looking at the numbers.
Dagger=1/4+1/2+1/2+1/4
Sword=1/2+1/4+3/4
Exactly the same 1.5sec for both.
Dagger might look slower because the middle 2 swings both take half a second, but they really are not
If you actually try the weapon, there’s no way you can claim dagger 4 hit speed is same as sword 3 hit. It’s definitely slower.
You’re just theory crafting numbers instead of doing the field test when it’s available.I played Soulbeast all demo’s and stress tests, I did my fair share of testing in the ’ field’ .
You don’t need to “Theorycraft” anything, all it takes is looking at the numbers.
Dagger=1/4+1/2+1/2+1/4
Sword=1/2+1/4+3/4
Exactly the same 1.5sec for both.
Dagger might look slower because the middle 2 swings both take half a second, but they really are not
How’s number matters when you don’t count the aftercast of each action?
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ricochet
So Axe 1 cast time is 1/4, so can I hit 4 times per second?
This is clearly false because after-cast exist.
Dagger has a long after-cast on 3rd and 4th hit, that’s why it’s slower.
Tool tips are just for reference, field test is most important.
Dagger has worse dps than Axe, people had already tested it.
I have to disagree with most things the 2 people above me posted.
Soulbeast offers the ranger more than any other elite spec currently in the game does.
It gives you so many options, it’s a jack of all spec basically.- For PvE condi and hybrid dps specs will use Soulbeast over Core ranger
- Power ranger could be a thing, but I honestly think Soulbeast was made with the new hybrid damage set in mind.- I don’t know why you would think soulbeast is weak in roaming, if you think that you obviously haven’t looked close enought to the Beastmaster trait line and how it benefits Soulbeast greatly. Or how the shouts benefit you when in Beastmode.
- For WvW and PvP Bear stance has to be the best thing that could happen for rangers, you have an equal stun break trait as Druid’s CA has, stances and its mastery are actually very potent in WvW.
In general Soulbeast gives you a lot of options. How all that is going to play out in the end is just a guessing game, but you can’t look at soulbeast and think it is worse then a core spec, because it is not.
i really have to disagree with you , itried play power soul beast and in the end beside F3 and smock scale F2 its not good, no reasone to take stance
and as for condi no reason to take dagger … and stance
Then you were doing something wrong, Soul Beast has some sick combos you can do to people, makes it feel very fighter gamey tonme where you can just 100-0 someone with an ultra combo if they don’t break out of the kitten storm you throw at them.
And I was just using a dog + Iboga, I’m sure you can make more ridiculous kitten than that by having a pig + dog or two pigs/dogs, anything where you can chain CC from you, and your pet as you dance in and out of beast mode while dumping damage on them.
Can also become a juggernaught with bears.
They sing dark, delicious notes about power and family.
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna
Heimskarl Ashfiend, I appreciate the calculations but how you got 981 vs 1050 (dagger/sword) is beyond me. The average damage of sword and dagger are exactly the same, averaging at 1000 on ascended gear.
Also all those calculations don’t take into account the 4% vul (or 8% if you have quickness) that the attack chain from dagger provides, sure sword has might, but you will be on 25 stacks of might anyway so that is useless).
Dagger is not a pile of crap like a lot of people seem to think is what I am trying to say. You won’t hear me argue against it needed a few tweaks here and there but to compleetly write it off.. nah.. not in my oppinion atleast
kitten, I used the data from the build editor for the calculations, the damage range on the dagger is 970-1030. Sword is 950 – 1,050. I’ll re-do it.
You don’t take vuln into account for the same reason you don’t take might or quickness into account for calculations like these, you’ll likely be maxed out on vuln anyway.
I think you are forgetting about aftercast delay too. The sword chain takes 2.04s, not 1.5s. I don’t know how much aftercast the dagger has, but it seems even longer than sword. I’ll see if I can find a HD video with closeup and time it.
I always look at the utility/heal/elite skills to see what it will be
and to me the soulbeast looks like a buffer since they all effect nearby allies
Ok, I’ll do this again since I used the wrong base data for the weapons from the build editor as I couldn’t check in-game.
Sword – 1000*2256 * 0.7 / 2500 (armor) * 2 + 1000*2256 * 0.8 / 2500 = 1985.28 for the whole chain.
50% crit chance.
220% crit damage.
50 AA chains = 99,264
50 AA chains @ 220% crit = 218,380.8
Total = 317,644
Average per AA Chain = 3176.44
AA Chain Time = 2.04s
DPS = 3176.44/2.04 = 1557 damage per second
Now the aftercast on the Dagger certainly does seem significantly longer, I tried timing it from videos and it’s definitely longer than sword chain, I did it 20 times and my average was two point four seconds so I’ll use that. I don’t know the exact time so I can’t calculate the duration exactly.
Dagger – Dagger – 1000*2057 * 0.4 / 2500 * 3 + 1000*2057 * 0.5 / 2500 = 1398.76 for the whole chain.
35% crit chance
150% crit damage
65 AA chains = 90919.4
35 AA chains @ 150% crit = 73434.9
100 AA chains worth of condi = 177216
Total = 341,570
Average per AA Chain = 3415.70
AA Chain Time = 2.4s
Now, if we take the conditions into account…
The bleed/poison on Deadly Delivery lasts for 3s, multiply by the 42% vipers modifier and you have 4.26s. Add this to the 2.2s attack chain for 6.46s for the chain to deal all of its damage. This is not realistic as you never just do one AA and wait, obviously.
DPS = 3415.70/6.66 = 512.86 damage per second.
Or if you disregard the condition durations and just go for the AA chain duration…
DPS = 3415.7/2.4 = 1423.2 damage per second.
So Dagger may actually be better than this since my timing of the AA chain is likely not perfect, but it could also be worse too…
Now I think adding in traits will be the next step, but Sword has all the advantages there.
Either way, as a general comparison, they are pretty close in their numbers which are still quite low when you take a look at the top DPS dogs out there.
You don’t need to “Theorycraft” anything, all it takes is looking at the numbers.
Dagger=1/4+1/2+1/2+1/4
Sword=1/2+1/4+3/4
Exactly the same 1.5sec for both.
Dagger might look slower because the middle 2 swings both take half a second, but they really are not
Try this next time:
Start the autochain vs a golem or whatever. Run 10 complete #1 chains from each weapon – time them – compare.
Come back and post your results after that, not after looking at the wiki for cast times. Thanks.
Win10 pro | Xeon 5650 @ 4 GHz | R9 280x toxic | 24 Gig Ram | Process Lasso user
You don’t need to “Theorycraft” anything, all it takes is looking at the numbers.
Dagger=1/4+1/2+1/2+1/4
Sword=1/2+1/4+3/4
Exactly the same 1.5sec for both.
Dagger might look slower because the middle 2 swings both take half a second, but they really are notTry this next time:
Start the autochain vs a golem or whatever. Run 10 complete #1 chains from each weapon – time them – compare.
Come back and post your results after that, not after looking at the wiki for cast times. Thanks.
You are aware that we can not test these things right now? And if you yourself want to actually contribute you can watch WP’s or any other youtube video and time the dagger attack chain yourself.
From my personal experience playing the demo’s I did not feel much if any difference between the 2 attack chains. Considering dagger has 1 more attack in its chain it did not feel particularly slow to me.
Now let’s just step aside from this back and forth between dagger and sword/axe or what have you and get back to what the OP actually wanted to know, which is, what the Soulbeast’s role would be.
I am sure there will be a meta dps build including Soulbeast elite spec, whether that is going to be a power, condi or hybrid is still not sure.
I myself have high hopes for a Hybrid build at least.
You don’t need to “Theorycraft” anything, all it takes is looking at the numbers.
Dagger=1/4+1/2+1/2+1/4
Sword=1/2+1/4+3/4
Exactly the same 1.5sec for both.
Dagger might look slower because the middle 2 swings both take half a second, but they really are notTry this next time:
Start the autochain vs a golem or whatever. Run 10 complete #1 chains from each weapon – time them – compare.
Come back and post your results after that, not after looking at the wiki for cast times. Thanks.
You are aware that we can not test these things right now? And if you yourself want to actually contribute you can watch WP’s or any other youtube video and time the dagger attack chain yourself.
From my personal experience playing the demo’s I did not feel much if any difference between the 2 attack chains. Considering dagger has 1 more attack in its chain it did not feel particularly slow to me.Now let’s just step aside from this back and forth between dagger and sword/axe or what have you and get back to what the OP actually wanted to know, which is, what the Soulbeast’s role would be.
I am sure there will be a meta dps build including Soulbeast elite spec, whether that is going to be a power, condi or hybrid is still not sure.
I myself have high hopes for a Hybrid build at least.
I did the numbers on a Grievers D/A with Mad King Runes, cruelty sigil, Vicious Quarry, Honed Axes, Furious Strength, Twice as Vicious (30% uptime from Axe4) and traits/effects for 75% crit chance, 254% crit damage, 1243 condi damage, 2538 Power and the damage is significantly less than that of a core ranger with S/A, zerker and the MM/Sk/BM DPS build.
So, unless they improve some traits and the daggers themselves, core Ranger will remain top DPS for us. The hybrid may be fun to play, but Zerker Sword will still be DPS king.
From my personal experience playing the demo’s I did not feel much if any difference between the 2 attack chains. Considering dagger has 1 more attack in its chain it did not feel particularly slow to me.
I’m not saying you’re wrong, I was just suggesting a testing method. Anyway, we’ll just have to wait for the expansion release and we’ll now for sure.
Win10 pro | Xeon 5650 @ 4 GHz | R9 280x toxic | 24 Gig Ram | Process Lasso user
You don’t need to “Theorycraft” anything, all it takes is looking at the numbers.
Dagger=1/4+1/2+1/2+1/4
Sword=1/2+1/4+3/4
Exactly the same 1.5sec for both.
Dagger might look slower because the middle 2 swings both take half a second, but they really are notTry this next time:
Start the autochain vs a golem or whatever. Run 10 complete #1 chains from each weapon – time them – compare.
Come back and post your results after that, not after looking at the wiki for cast times. Thanks.
You are aware that we can not test these things right now? And if you yourself want to actually contribute you can watch WP’s or any other youtube video and time the dagger attack chain yourself.
From my personal experience playing the demo’s I did not feel much if any difference between the 2 attack chains. Considering dagger has 1 more attack in its chain it did not feel particularly slow to me.Now let’s just step aside from this back and forth between dagger and sword/axe or what have you and get back to what the OP actually wanted to know, which is, what the Soulbeast’s role would be.
I am sure there will be a meta dps build including Soulbeast elite spec, whether that is going to be a power, condi or hybrid is still not sure.
I myself have high hopes for a Hybrid build at least.I did the numbers on a Grievers D/A with Mad King Runes, cruelty sigil, Vicious Quarry, Honed Axes, Furious Strength, Twice as Vicious (30% uptime from Axe4) and traits/effects for 75% crit chance, 254% crit damage, 1243 condi damage, 2538 Power and the damage is significantly less than that of a core ranger with S/A, zerker and the MM/Sk/BM DPS build.
So, unless they improve some traits and the daggers themselves, core Ranger will remain top DPS for us. The hybrid may be fun to play, but Zerker Sword will still be DPS king.
Sorry, but now you are just speculating. And using an unoptimized build at that, for a hybrid setup.
Anyway, we will have to see what happens, but as it is right now, power damage is nowhere near that of condi, all i’m hoping for is something else than a pure condi build. May it be hybrid or pure power. Still I think a hybrid will pull ahead, and as much as you can try and speculate on the numbers, you simply can’t know the outcome.
(also you did not account for 25 stacks of might in that setup, which gives the hybrid/condi builds +750 condi damage, that a power build just does not benefit from)
…Sorry, but now you are just speculating. And using an unoptimized build at that, for a hybrid setup.
Anyway, we will have to see what happens, but as it is right now, power damage is nowhere near that of condi, all i’m hoping for is something else than a pure condi build. May it be hybrid or pure power. Still I think a hybrid will pull ahead, and as much as you can try and speculate on the numbers, you simply can’t know the outcome.(also you did not account for 25 stacks of might in that setup, which gives the hybrid/condi builds +750 condi damage, that a power build just does not benefit from)
Why are you sorry?
It’s not speculating, it’s the exact numbers calculated out. How would you optimize the build further? I did consider using Berzerker runes over Mad King, but the condi burst and might stacking from Mad King should be pretty good, along with the 40% bleed duration.
You can know the outcome because you can calculate everything!
The power build will also benefit from +750 condi damage because they both use Sharpened Edges and Sword does have poison. You know what else I didn’t include in the damage calculation for the zerker one? Steady Focus, Predator’s Instinct or Scholar rune bonus. 1.1*1.15*1.1=1.3915. Another +39% damage.
Vipers with Ferocity stacking and full raid buffs should do more than the grievers, it may also do more than the core zerker setup, but I doubt it. Unless they do some work with the Daggers, and I’d really like them to.
By all means, go calculate the exact damage for whatever hybrid build you like. Then post for us here, please. Or are you just waiting for qT to do it for you, then regurgitate others’ work?
What is it exactly you want from the build? If it is going to be maximum DPS with no timeframe then condi is going to win. If you want something to die in a timely fashion, then power will win. Hybrid will be half way between as it requires the largest stat spread. If they actually calculated out the power and condi damage for the Dagger and adjusted it, they could make it very good for hybrid.