Guild Wars 2

skowcia.8257:

Mallyx is nothing else but an offensive set of condi utility skills for extra pressure, but there is no reason to use him other than that as we can go for Jalis (lol tanking) and Shiro for mobility with mace/axe without any problems. Legends are nothing else but a x type of utility skills. Not a second weapon skills. Mallyx is not needed at all. He behave as expensive weapon skills. Neither Jalis or Shiro require a power. They dont have any significant damage atatched to them.

Kidel.2057:

skowcia.8257:

Yeah, cool. And when people like lighter or xenon suggest alternative methods

Cool, the e of you are all suggesting different solutions, so you are just allied against weaponswap, even if you don’t agree on the solution.
So you basically want ws gone so badly that everything else goes? Lol.

You basically want weaponswap and legendswap on the same button, lighter wants no second weaponset at all but just utility skills as weaponskills (???), while the other one (not sure if xenon tbh, sorry if I’m wrong) wants conjured weapons.

And of all of them, one is an attunement copy, the other is a engi kit copy and yours is a restricted-to-legend weaponswap.

All alternatives that players would hate just because you want to be “original” while not being original (yours is still weaponswap, just with a restriction, HOW IS IT MORE ORIGINAL?)

Kidel.2057:

Your suggestion to replace weaponswap is just a restricted weaponswap tied to the legend, that is already senseless on paper, so I’m sure you just convinced yourself that it’s better and NOTHING will change your mind. Even if you can emulate your restrictive idea with normal weaponswap.

A month passed and to this day i dindt received any quote where i EVER suggested weapon swap tied to legend. I love these cheap false claims to discredit my person. I am still waiting for this legendary quote WHICH YOU COULDNT PROVIDE SINCE LAST BETA.

Just like lighter i am completely AGAINST any sort of weapon swap. Doesnt matter if tied to legend or not, im simply against it. And even if these suggestions are not “original” they are still more original than weapon swap slapped on 6 classes. It is also not our job to come up with something original. We dont get payed for any suggestions here. Thats a job for developer. From a customer point of view slapping weapon swap was a LAZY band aid solution. Nothing else, it was simply lazy and uninspired.

Ps saying that i actually “dont get revenant” is also funny, considering the fact i am not the one here without any clue how energy works etc by talking about recovering 40 energy in 3 seconds and other bs – and unlike you i can provide quotes+source links. Either way that was my last post directed towards you, i dont want to bother with people that spread false accusations.

Bye

Quoted for the truth

I too have decided that I’m too lazy to weapon swap. I don’t want to be at a disadvantage, so other revenants shouldn’t be able to weapon swap either. Sorry guys.

Without weapon swap revenant will lack either defense or offence and will lose build diversity and will reduce player skill that requires paying attention to weapon swap as another asset.

Zelulose.8695:

Without weapon swap revenant will lack defense or offence …

Wha??

Why remove it? Its true that Revenant needs some more work but its not like having weapon swap will hurt anyone. If you hate it just remove the hoykey and pretend it doesn’t exist.

skowcia.8257:

Just like lighter i am completely AGAINST any sort of weapon swap. Doesnt matter if tied to legend or not, im simply against it. And even if these suggestions are not “original” they are still more original than weapon swap slapped on 6 classes. It is also not our job to come up with something original. We dont get payed for any suggestions here. Thats a job for developer. From a customer point of view slapping weapon swap was a LAZY band aid solution. Nothing else, it was simply lazy and uninspired.

Ok so that’s your opinion, which is fair enough we’re all allowed to have one, problem is lighter hasn’t given a real reason as to why it’s bad, other then it being his opinion, again that’s what he/she thinks but no real ground to ask for it to be removed.

Your not wrong weapon swap was a quick fix and I’m saying this as someone pro weapon swap.
But in regards to the developers, they did what the majority of the comminuty ask which was for weapon swap, end of all argument right there, yes it’s a quick fix and that having it makes problems but at the end of it the community asked and the devs delivered

Ultimately the beta weekend will provide some much needed feedback for both sides of this argument.

to be honest lighter gave a reason. He said that to him weaponswap is an obstacle to legend skill development. To him weaponswap is just a quick way to solve a problem that should be solved changing radically legendskill so that they can compensate for the lack of weapon types.

As many of us tried to explain him, with no success at all, to achieve that, to achieve the same results as weaponswap with legendswap, you have to give legend skills something like auto attack (like ranged AA if you have a melee weapon equipped) and spammable skills.
This would force deve to move healing to other skills, like weaponskills.
But the result is just an elementalist with 2 attunements on the right half of the screen, and healing skill on the left.
Just a confusing elementalist copy. Or a thief copy.

He often says “thief has 2 weaponskills set and 1 utility set, Revenant has the same number of sets with no weaponswap”.
He makes 2 mistakes here. 1) thief can choose the utility skills. 2) utility skills are nowhere like weaponskilsl (seriously, compare #1 to #6).

Making legend skills the same as weaponskills, and giving weaponskills utility/healing skills traits, you basically make a thief with rearranged skills, plus with no customization (since you’ll end up having legendswap=weaponswap and nothing similar to utility skill picking).

most of what I saw was “if your giving it to Rev you should give it to ele and engi”

HarbingerAzrael.5691:

most of what I saw was “if your giving it to Rev you should give it to ele and engi”

Yeah, from other people that however were quickly dismissed, as Ele has 20+ weaponskills and both Ele and Engineer can easily change range with kits/conjured weapons.

Without actually trying out weapon swap, none of the players here can make an accurate prediction on how it’ll turn out. Maybe we will get different skills for each legend, maybe swapping weapon provide sufficient diversity to make up specialised utilities.

War between weapon swap is over. Here is a solution.

Idea is simple;

-People that are up for weapon swap will gain advantage in form possibly adaptation between close/range, more skills in combat, 2 extra sigils. They will get stuff they wanted to have.

-Those of us, that are against revenant to have weapon swap will lose those advantages, but gain instead 50% reduced cds on all weapon skills. This way both sides can be happy. I think its a fair tradeoff.

A choice between more skills or lower cd’s on weapon set. We would gain 50% cd reduction by not slotting weapons in second slot in hero panel.

Yeah, sure, or maybe you can just adapt to the class design that has been decided by the developers?
You know, if you don’t like Revenant you’re not forced to use it. I don’t like Mesmer, so I simply don’t use it, I’m not asking the art team to remove the pink butterflies.

If you liked Revenant with no weaponswap you need nothing more. Weaponswap is just an addition, nothing got removed (everything got buffed).

So yeah, instead of complaining about lack of weapon swap why you didnt adapted to the class desing? You know, if you dont like swapless revenant youre not forced to play it. I dont like the way engi plays around swapping kits in/out but i dont complain to remove it.

If i wont play with weapon swap i will hit cd’s pretty fast leaving me with autoatk olny. Does it really hurt you to make a choice that you simply disagree with my idea? You got your swap, i got my ability to play without weapon swap. Fair tradeoff. Not my problem that you dont like tradeoffs. Stop derail this thread if you dont have anything constructive to say. And cd reduction also solves the problem with olny 1 condi set.

Are you implying that your opinion is the only one valid, while others (including devs) are just “complaining”, or QQ?
You may not agree, but we gave many constructive reasons why weaponswap is needed.
Take this as an advice, but your attitude is pretty childish.

Your playstyle maybe just happened to not require ws, but this doesn’t mean it was not required at all, you are just 1 player. Revenant was the only class unable to melee burst and then kite, but that’s just an example among many that were given.
I’m sorry, but I can’t figure you out as a pve/wvw player, because not having both malee and ranged options in that regard is a disadvantage.
If you mainly play pvp then ws is not a big deal because of energy probably.

I also suggest you listen again at what Roy said about ws in Shiro’s POI, because I think you may have missed it, or you just don’t care and your ego is making you believe in a different reality where people cry and devs spoil them.

But is probably too late for you to open your eyes, you went too far with your argument, you’ll never admit you were wrong. And I am hoping to be wrong about this

Kidel.2057:

Are you implying that your opinion is the only one valid, while others (including devs) are just “complaining”, or QQ?
You may not agree, but we gave many constructive reasons why weaponswap is needed.
Take this as an advice, but your attitude is pretty childish.

Like um..you cant swap between close and range? So pretty much like ele. Was there any other reason? I believe no. Also i wasnt the one crying to have ability to wear swords and hammer at the same time.

Kidel.2057:

Your playstyle maybe just happened to not require ws, but this doesn’t mean it was not required at all, you are just 1 player. Revenant was the only class unable to melee burst and then kite, but that’s just an example among many that were given.

Why it would be required? Legends? Legends are olny utility skills, dont pretend it something else when it really inst. We can pretty much classify legend names as utility types. Mallyx being corruption for example. And im not alone that doesnt want weapon swap either, after all i wasnt the one who made this thread. Also many classes/builds cant burst and kite. Not everyone playing cheese mesmers.

Kidel.2057:

I’m sorry, but I can’t figure you out as a pve/wvw player, because not having both malee and ranged options in that regard is a disadvantage.
If you mainly play pvp then ws is not a big deal because of energy probably.

I dont care about pve at all, i dont care a lot about wvw either other than roaming to beat baddies in 1vX and teabag them. In pve you wont need weapon swap at all as you will have to camp and autoatk with sword all day long, if you ever try to swap you automatically lose dps. Also in wvw swapping between range and melee weapon is not a big deal, eles do that for the whole time. And whats about the energy? Being a sword/sword rev without wep swap most of the time i will be autoatk olny as skill 2 is useless, skill 3 has 10cd, skill 4 has 15, and skill 5 has 20. Energy wont be a issue at all cus i wont have enough skills/low cds to spend it on.

Kidel.2057:

I also suggest you listen again at what Roy said about ws in Shiro’s POI, because I think you may have missed it, or you just don’t care and your ego is making you believe in a different reality where people cry and devs spoil them.

But is probably too late for you to open your eyes, you went too far with your argument, you’ll never admit you were wrong. And I am hoping to be wrong about this

I dont believe in PR. Why rev dindt started with weapon swap at the beginning? Cus it wasnt planned at all. Right after a beta and bad feedback about revenant a weapon swap pops up. Coincidence?

Also what is your problem with reduced cds if you wear olny 1 weapon set? I would really like to know whats your problem here, i really do. Does it really bother you that much that someone may have lower cd’s cus he can handle 100% melee and properly manage energy? As you said i put myself as disadvantage, i wont be able to burst and kite. I fail to see where is the problem in this case. You have your weapon swap, be happy. I dont want to be left behind spaming aa most of the time cus i disagree with weapon swap and want to follow ele/engi pattern. Both sides ends up happy and satisfied.

skowcia.8257:

Like um..you cant swap between close and range? So pretty much like ele.

But ele can. In many ways.

skowcia.8257:

Was there any other reason? I believe no.

Yes, there are many, even Roy gave 3 of them in the poi. Please stop forcing your thoughs on reality.

skowcia.8257:

Also i wasnt the one crying to have ability to wear swords and hammer at the same time.

Again, your ideas are great while others only cry… Dude, grow up.

skowcia.8257:

Why it would be required? Legends? Legends are olny utility skills, dont pretend it something else when it really inst. We can pretty much classify legend names as utility types. Mallyx being corruption for example. And im not alone that doesnt want weapon swap either, after all i wasnt the one who made this thread. Also many classes/builds cant burst and kite. Not everyone playing cheese mesmers.

Cool, how is this replying to what I wrote and you quoted?

skowcia.8257:

I dont care about pve at all, i dont care a lot about wvw either other than roaming to beat baddies in 1vX and teabag them.

As I suspected. Then you should stop believing you’re the only one in the world. People DO care about pve and wvw, statistically more then pvp.
And if pve and wvw players in great quantity, including devs, think that weaponswap is (was) needed, then you should probably consider the idea as valid.
Adding ws doesn’t lower Revenant’s pvp abilities, but it’s a huge improvement in QoL for other aspects of the game.

skowcia.8257:

Also in wvw swapping between range and melee weapon is not a big deal, eles do that for the whole time.

This pretty much confirms you don’t play wvw, as you said. Pretty sure not as an ele.

skowcia.8257:

Why rev dindt started with weapon swap at the beginning? Cus it wasnt planned at all.
…
Right after a beta and bad feedback about revenant a weapon swap pops up.

Of course, that’s why they do betas.

skowcia.8257:

Also what is your problem with reduced cds if you wear olny 1 weapon set? I would really like to know whats your problem here, i really do. Does it really bother you that much that someone may have lower cd’s cus he can handle 100% melee and properly manage energy? As you said i put myself as disadvantage, i wont be able to burst and kite. I fail to see where is the problem in this case.

I really suggest you to read the many threads asking for weaponswap. Actually READ them, possibly without thinking “this dude is just crying” or “I don’t need it in pvp”
I’m not going to repeat myself.
Also you could save a lot of time and just watch the POI again and listen to what Roy said about ws, that are actually his very reasons for adding it, directly from his lips.

Interesing. Since when d/d ele can swap between 300-1200 range? Many ways..haha yeah i wish so see that. I already pointed out why weapon swap wont be needed in pve due to dps rotation on sword. If i happen to get some X/rifle or lb warrior then be sure that he will end up autokicked kicked from my party right in the moment i notice that. It wont be any different from a revenant swapping to hammer/staff as they also will get kicked on a sigh. Wvw? Its not rare to see ele swapping between staff and daggers depening on what they doing. In general most of them camp staff either way as it is more effective. Same goes to rev ba basically. I will ignore everything else as it is waste of time.

Also you still didnt answered me. How are threads asking for weapon swap related to my suggestion? It doesnt affect you neither them in any way. It just gives alternative playstyle for us which you may or not want to use. None of my business. Are you trying to force yours playstyle on me? Seems so as i dont think anyone in these forums would be against alternative playstyles. Everyone asking for build/playstyle diversity and my suggestion provides that. I will say it again – it doesnt affect your wep swap in any way but it will affect (in a positive way) those of us who doesnt want to use wep swap feature.

skowcia.8257:

Interesing. Since when d/d ele can swap between 300-1200 range? Many ways..haha yeah i wish so see that.

Staff ele (1200 range) + conjure hammer (range 150) or greatsword (AA is longer then 300, but has many melee skills) and, pretty useless but in the game, shield (range 130).
D/? ele (300-600 range just with attunements) + conjured bow (900 range, very strong) or axe (weak but still in the game).
Scepter/? similar as staff.

It’s not so much different from Engineer, except engi doesn’t really have a melee option, but it’s not really required when his ranged skills are so powerful.

That’s not the case for classes like Revenant or Guardian, who can’t be only ranged.

A ranged option for Guardian is required for some WvW roles and many PvE situations, but you need weaponswap for melee chances, or you won’t do much dps.
Revenant has to be compared to Guardian, not ele, sice legend swap can’t give kits, and it would force to equip a whole trait line for 1 skill (plus yay, 3 classes with kits and no weaponswap…).

skowcia.8257:

I already pointed out why weapon swap wont be needed in pve due to dps rotation on sword. If i happen to get some X/rifle or lb warrior then be sure that he will end up autokicked kicked from my party right in the moment i notice that.

Are you talking about dungeons? Because I never mentioned dungeons.
When I use my warrior in dungeons I have 2 melee sets. When I use it in WvW I have 1 melee and 1 ranged set to swap (and well, the same for PvP however).
The reason should be pretty obvious and it’s EXACTLY THE SAME FOR REVENANT

skowcia.8257:

In general most of them camp staff either way as it is more effective.

Exactly! Can you imagine Revenant using only hammer? Melee hammer is a mess.
Elementalist is a magic light armor class, of course it has amazing ranged weaponskills (and 20 of them on 1 weapon), plus conjured weapons for melee (or the opposite).
Revenant needs weaponswap to do something even remotely similar.
It’s not to do more damage.

skowcia.8257:

Also you still didnt answered me. How are threads asking for weapon swap related to my suggestion? It doesnt affect you neither them in any way.

Why a Revenant with no weaponswap has to get benefits? I don’t get it.
A second weapon set is mainly QoL, you don’t get more damage, just more customization and “gear switch”, so why should you get a bonus for not using it?
Dude, you make no sense. It’s like you’re kitten for something and you’re crying.

skowcia.8257:

It just gives alternative playstyle for us which you may or not want to use.

Oh, so now you want alternatives!
Look, I just quoted one of the 3 reasons Roy gave for weaponswap, except you wrote it.

Conjures are not viable in pvp at all. They have limited duration/skill usage so you cant really count them by any means. Show me any ele that uses d/d set conjures bow to camp it please. Doesnt matter if it be pvp, wvw or pve, i just want to see it. And 600 range? Water has no damage at all, its completely useless. You might as well run in circles as your damage wont make any difference. Go make topic in ele section about this, my popcorn is ready.

Benefits for no wep swap are also QoL ya know? We wont get more damage by your logic, so why i should suffer vs a rev using wep swap? You have 10 skills to use, i will have 5 with halved cd’s to bring me on par with you. Simple as that. Why i should be punished for not using that “awesome” QoL change? If i am getting punished in this case its not QoL anymore but a straight buff.

This class was designed without wep swap in mind, let us play this way. I wont discuss futher with you at this point as youre on personal crusade against any alternative stuff to wep swap and you want to force wep swap on anyone that doesnt want to play your way

50% reduction has to happen. End of story. You gets weapon swap, we get lower cd’s to be capable of playing without weapon swap like it was originally designed to be.

skowcia.8257:

Conjures are not viable in pvp at all.

We were not talking about pvp, are you able to follow?

skowcia.8257:

They have limited duration/skill usage so you cant really count them by any means. Show me any ele that uses d/d set conjures bow to camp it please. Doesnt matter if it be pvp, wvw or pve, i just want to see it. And 600 range? Water has no damage at all, its completely useless. You might as well run in circles as your damage wont make any difference. Go make topic in ele section about this, my popcorn is ready.

Never said “camp” in any of my arguments, either talking about ele or revenant.
Please keep track of what we are talking about, because it’s the second time you reply to things I never said.

First pve set on the site (dagger+bow+gs)
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Elementalist_-_D/F
Second set (scepter+hammer+bow+gs)
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Elementalist_-_S/x_LH
First WvW set (backliner staff+gs)
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Elementalist_-_Staff_Backline

Want me to go on?

Benefits for no wep swap are also QoL ya know? We wont get more damage by your logic, so why i should suffer vs a rev using wep swap? You have 10 skills to use, i will have 5 with halved cd’s to bring me on par with you.

Are you able to include energy in the picture? 10 cds with double energy cost.
Are you also able to include the fact that no Sword cd is useful?

Simple as that. Why i should be punished for not using that “awesome” QoL change? If i am getting punished in this case its not QoL anymore but a straight buff.

The same reason why a Guardian or a Warrior should get no benefits from using 1 weapon set. Why is Revenant any different? You even have energy so you can’t even spam cd.

This class was designed without wep swap in mind, let us play this way. I wont discuss futher with you on at this point as youre on personal crusade against any alternative stuff to wep swap and you want to force wep swap on anyone that doesnt want to play your way

50% reduction has to happen. End of story.

“My” personal crusade?
“My” way?
…

Dude, you are a strange guy. You talk about giving you alternatives and you simply ignore when other people ask for alternatives. Narrow minded.

Weaponswap doesn’t remove anything from your playstyle, asking to remove it when people and devs want it is not even being selfish. It’s worse.

Bow – hit 4 and drop it. Hardly a replacement for current weapon skills on ele.
Fsg – mostly used for the mobility/against a wall also ele has no good elites as all so what they are supposed to slot there?
Hammer – tryhard bandaid to have any chance in terms of dps to staff ele but completely unnecessary. It is mostly used for a different playstyle.
Just curious..when you started playing in this game?

10 cds with double energy cost? Then 50% reduced cds are also with double energy cost as you can activate them 2x as much. And no sword cd is useful? K..

Guardian (huge cd’s) and warriors (fast hands, wep skills comboing like skullcrack>hb) were designed with weapon swap, revenant wasnt. See the huge difference? Yes we have energy so even with 50% reduction we wont be able to spam stuff without brain, but we will have better adaptation like 7cd sword block if we can properly play rev (noboby will use it off cd either way.). Its QoL for us. If you simply disagree for the sake of disagreeing then we have to remove wep swap so your excuse about wars and guard will be gone.

Literally guide videos attached to the build:

Bow used as any other weaponswap:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=47&v=V0j9VZEDk3U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=35&v=8-2VGS7-ECI
(ranged attack to take less damage or backline+more cds+4 all skills used except AA)

Hammer literally used as melee burst weapon, all cds used
https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PL9cpcGgeqwmGiv0GBau2vWxj6MYCMDPus&t=130&v=V--FQ9dSmvE
Literally half of the rotation in the guide. You may say “unnecessary” but it’s objectively better and used as a melee weaponswap (do I have to quote when you asked me how ele can swap 300-1200? Because that’s the question here and I think I’ve proven it enough, I don’t care if you say it’s “unnecessary”, that’s your opinion against a meta build approved by many users and used by pro players that know more then you about pve and wvw, type of games you do not play).

And Revenant is designed for weaponswap. You fail to see the difference between design and concept. The starting idea was maybe simmetry with ele/engi (maybe), but the design led to the need of weaponswap, as Roy admitted.

And you’ve just proven (again) that you did not listen to the POI. Why am I wasting my time with you?

Also you don’t want to use WS in your pvp build. Fine. Why do others have to suffer a class with less options just for you? Not everyone cares about pvp, that is just 1/3 of the game. Plus your build wasn’t nerfed, so why do you even argue?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/Conjure-weapon/first#post5348614

I saw few seconds on your first vid..what i noticed? Icebow>4>drop back to staff.

I could go make a vid too with revenant killing mobs/players without weapon equipping and say that rev doesnt need any weapon at all like this dude

Conclusion; remove weapons for thief. He dont need one as seen in the vid.

Also your commend about “pros” is laughable. I wonder if you even managed get to 50 fractals or solo lupi. Just bc i dont focus on pve/wvw it doesnt make me inferior to someone else by any means and i can prove your “pros” that ingame. Ez.

And still..we ended up with 3 betas where revenant had no weapon swap at all as he wasnt designed to have one. You cant call it a concept when it made it into the game. 3 times.

Wut less options btw? All i see are more options right there. I take 50% cd reduction, you take wep swap yolo. Both sides happy. Problem solved. Yet youre against it cause you dont want us to have any benefits, just punishment.

You should watch more then 4 seconds and more then 1 video.
And I think I’ll extend this advice to “you should probably learn to listen”
Because you can’t. That’s clear. Unable to see the interesting parts of 3 short videos, then replying as you think you know what’s inside them. Same thing you did with the POI.

And that thief video is funny, but it doesn’t justify what you’re saying.
Let’s say it only has utility skills, then they add weaponskills. Is skowcia going to bother? Why? They didn’t make it weaker, they gave thief something more. You can still run around with no weapons if you like.

So while your video shows that a strange build is possible against weak and almost-not-moving people, does it mean it has to be the only build in the game? The only way to play as thief?
Does it mean that if they add weaponswap it’s not good because it’s useless?

Wut less options btw? All i see are more options right there. I take 50% cd reduction

And again you didn’t answer. Why shouldn’t we apply the same reasoning on Guardian, Warrior, Ranger, etc? Because Revenant didn’t have weaponswap from the start? So design choices are to lead by fail history?

And I was talking about less options compared to no weaponswap. Your “new” suggestion is simply hilarious. A selfish way to legitimate you to not use weaponswap, when the real reason is that you are kitten.

I don’t swap weapon on Ranger, does it mean I’ll get 50% cd reduction on longbow/sword? Hell no. Devs are not crazy. And that would simply be seen as a way to penalize people using weaponswap.
I’m so glad you’re not a dev on this game.

EDIT: in the thread you linked there are 3 random users talking, so what? I linked you 3 upvoted guides with 3 videos showing them in action. You can see it from yourself, but I guess you have blinkers and you’re unable to see everything that proves you wrong.

EDIT2: and for what you know, maybe Elementalist was imagined or even developed with weaponswap at firts, then maybe it got removed and replaced with conjured weapons because 40 attunement weaponskills were simply too many to manage. Final design is not set in stone at the beginning. Ideas evolve.