Guild Wars 2

I personally feel as though many of the revenant’s grandmaster traits aren’t build defining nor GM worthy.

The only traits that I do feel are GM worthy are: Momentary Pacification, Assassin’s Annihilation, Swift Termination, Rolling Mists, Shrouding Mists and Elder’s Force.

This is problematic because there are no GM worthy traits (in my opinion) in Corruption or Retribution, with only few viable options in other trees. So lets look at the GM traits that are underperforming and see what can be done to fix them.

Corruption

Diabolic Inferno: This trait simply doesn’t make enough of an impact. It would be much better if the amount of burn stacks was increased, and possibly the duration as well. Right now its not enough condi pressure to feel like a good GM trait.

Manaiacal Persistence: I think after the rework, this trait is much better, howeever compared to Rolling Mists in Invocation theres no reason to use this trait instead for crit substitute Soldiers/Crusaders/Valkyrie builds. I’d suggest adding more of the corruption theme to this trait in some way. Its a tough fit, but I just don’t think its very useful for a build that would go into corruption.

Pulsating Pestilence: This trait is almost in a good spot. I simply think it needs the 15% chance to trigger condition removed and changed to “copy conditions on nearby foes when struck when having 3 or more conditions on you”. This threshold would make the trait more consistently useful instead of triggering when you have no conditions on you and going on cooldown. I think its range should be increased to 360 as well.

Retribution

Empowering Vengeance: This trait is bad simply because revenant doesn’t have enough access to retaliation for this trait to be worthwhile. Yes theres the retal on dodge trait, and the Jalis heal, but thats it. I think it should add, “gain 3 seconds of retaliation when you use a legendary dwarf stance skill”, (similar to the resistance trait in corruption) to it, so it would allow you to get more consistent retal and might uptime.

Reflexive Summon: This trait is the only one I ever take because Its the only GM in retribution that ever does anything meaningful, and even then I feel like its still lacking for a GM trait. I’d change it into a more simply form of weakness application that has more overall uptime, but in its current form this trait isn’t bad, it just feels.. strange to use. I’d suggest reducing the hammer duration to 3 or 4 seconds and reducing the ICD to 10 seconds so it wouldn’t feel as limited by its cooldown.

Steadfast Rejuvenation: As we’ve learned from the necromancer’s signet of vampirism, being healed when youre being hit is no good when there is an ICD. I would honestly rework it to offer some form of passive healing every second, starting with a base of around 200 health per second and then scaling well with healing power, so it’d provide more reliable passive sustain.

Salvation

Natural Abundance: The fragments simply don’t last long enough, make them last much longer.

Selfless Amplification: This is okay for pure healing, but pure healing tends to be a bit bad, and the ventari stance in general is clunky for most builds to use. Its just a bit boring for a grandmaster trait and doesn’t define your build in any new or meaningful way, so I’d just rework it to a support based trait that does more than just raw healing.

Devastation

Dismantle Fortifications- I would make this trait let you CC through stability, any amount of stability, but it’d have a 30-40 second ICD to balance it appropriately. In its current form, its meaningless against anything besides Foot in the Grave Necromancers.

Invocation

Charged Mists: For most builds this trait seems a bit clunky to use due to the threshold. I’d change it so you’d gain 2 stacks of might upon using using 20 or more energy in a single skill.

Herald:

Soothing Bastion: This trait is only bad because Crystalline Hibernation is bad. Fix that skill (let us move while using and make the defiance bar sturdier) and it should be a good option. On the wiki it says that using a shield skill increases boon duration. Is this working? Since I can’t find it on the tooltip ingame.

Enhanced Bulwark: This trait is very good if you run retribution, but meaningless elsewhere. Add a function so that using Chaotic Release applies stability and super speed to yourself, and possibly some stability to allies as well.

Anyway, those are my feelings on the Revenant’s GM traits, the ones I didn’t describe are fine as they are, but I feel as though the majority of these traits aren’t build defining like they should be.

I agree with many of these points. I do have a few disagreements, below:

I found Maniacal Persistence a useful alternative to Rolling Mists if you don’t want to go into Invocation.

I like the current implementation of Dismantle Fortifications. I have been using it with Momentary Pacification which, in theory , strips a lot of stability. I haven’t been happy with Momentary Pacification though. Many of our elites have a long cast time, and I’ve noticed the application of the daze is delayed even more, by around half a second or so after the elite cast finished. And, of course half of our elites are CCs better than daze, so Momentary Pacification is useless in many cases, except for stripping stability.

I don’t think that Charged Mists is necessarily bad, but it doesn’t seem worthy of a GM trait, and neither of the Invocation GM traits seem to compete with Rolling Mists.

fluidmonolith.3584:

I agree with many of these points. I do have a few disagreements, below:

I found Maniacal Persistence a useful alternative to Rolling Mists if you don’t want to go into Invocation.

I like the current implementation of Dismantle Fortifications. I have been using it with Momentary Pacification which, in theory , strips a lot of stability. I haven’t been happy with Momentary Pacification though. Many of our elites have a long cast time, and I’ve noticed the application of the daze is delayed even more, by around half a second or so after the elite cast finished. And, of course half of our elites are CCs better than daze, so Momentary Pacification is useless in many cases, except for stripping stability.

I don’t think that Charged Mists is necessarily bad, but it doesn’t seem worthy of a GM trait, and neither of the Invocation GM traits seem to compete with Rolling Mists.

Yeah, I mean shrouding mists is an okay idea for a defensive GM trait option in invocation.

I can agree with your argument with momentary pacification. I feel as though the idea is GM worthy, just not implemented very well as you have said.

My main issue with maniacal persistence is that rolling mists performs the same role so much better because this class can very easily maintain permanent fury. While maiancal persistence provides a crit substitute for non-invocation builds, I feel like the placement is poor since crit substitute builds don’t really get much out of the the other corruption traits as a whole imo. It also doesn’t provide enough Crits to proc rampant vex, and even if the other GM trots have issues as well, most condi builds are better off taking those.

I’m not going to argue with you about dismantle fortifications, as I genuinely feel being able to ignore stability on a medium cooldown provides better utility than stripping it when it’s easy for so many builds to have very high stacks.

I would really like to see the Rev get a trait for enhanced energy regen. Thieves have seven traits in three different trait lines to improve or supplement initiative regen, so why is the Rev not given any options in this vein at all?

Kumion.7580:

I would really like to see the Rev get a trait for enhanced energy regen. Thieves have seven traits in three different trait lines to improve or supplement initiative regen, so why is the Rev not given any options in this vein at all?

That would be really nice in invocation or herald even.

Kumion.7580:

I would really like to see the Rev get a trait for enhanced energy regen. Thieves have seven traits in three different trait lines to improve or supplement initiative regen, so why is the Rev not given any options in this vein at all?

Roy actually replied to this after BWE1. He said once a trait is introduced for energy management, it quickly becomes mandatory (just ask a Thief if they ever drop Trickery). I reluctantly agree with him, though I would like to see something that’s not just a flat “gain X energy every 5s” and more like “reduce energy usage when affected by condis” or “when stunned your next skill costs no energy”. I believe there are ways to trait into energy management that don’t necessarily have to become mandatory, but it isn’t easy.

I agree OP, and it’s not just limited to “GM” traits (even though the distinction is largely arbitrary now). Instead of creating a new thread I would like to latch onto this one to provide my own feedback regarding traits.

Due to the Revenant lacking customization on the skillbar I think traits should have even more attention paid to them to create meaningful build choices than other professions. Revenants do not have the option to choose what utility is best for each situation, and although that is a decision I disagree with I think the next best thing would work and that is to make traits much more meaningful. Currently I feel this is by far the weakest aspect of the Revenant. Below is my feedback, some is specific and some is more of a generic feeling or idea. I understand that all of my feedback at once might seem like I want the Rev to be overpowered, I don’t. I’m not a game developer so I don’t have the best most balanced ideas but the main thing I want to express is that I want the Rev to have more meaningful build defining trait choies to make up for lack of customization elsewhere. I give examples that may or may not work, but the idea is there to make each trait a really good choice and change the way your build works a little bit compared to the other choices.

Roy I know you said you are against adding traits for increased energy management due to the worry they will become mandatory like Thief initiative traits. While I agree with you after thinking about this some more I believe there may be some creative ways of dealing with this like “reduce energy costs by X% per condition on you” or “when stunned your next skill costs no energy”. Those may or may not be good examples, but we could get creative and not just “+50 max energy” or “increase energy regen by +2” sort of traits that would certainly be mandatory.

Corruption
Overall Corruption is sort of iffy. It’s very niche, and while it seems to be the condition handling/generating trait line it doesn’t really do much of anything to protect against conditions.

Minor: The minors are great, I feel they add to exactly what the Corruption line wants to be doing and they fit well with Mallyx.

Adept: The trouble begins. Replenishing Despair is really weak, I don’t see a reason to ever use it. Something similar to Transmute for Engis should be looked at. Something like a chance to send an incoming condition back to enemy, or to convert it to a boon, or something. Demonic Defiance is great, it’s actually sort of build defining it’s what makes Mallyx work against condis. Without it Mallyx is nearly just as paper against condis as everything else. This is potentially a problem but without this trait I don’t think Mallyx works very well. Venom Enhancement is perplexing to me. Revs get one source of poison as far as I can tell, the third in the auto attack chain from Mace. Even if you want to add other sources from sigils/runes this trait seems pointless, especially when up against the choice of Demonic Defiance. A rework here seems best.

Master: Bolstered Anguish, the only way this works is if you take Demonic Defiance otherwise you’re dying to those condis. Even still, 6 condis is only giving you 18% damage while it’s likely killing you before you can make much use of that buff. I feel this should either do way more damage (5%, but even still if one of those is weakness then this trait is sort of pointless), or do something like reduce incoming damage per condi. Frigid Precision doesn’t seem to synergize with anything, it’s not a damaging condition which a condi Rev sorely needs and it’s very short. I suppose I could see a build that would make use of this however since you have to be in melee to use the only condi weapon! A handicapped weapon choice creates handicapped trait choices. Not a good path to go down I don’t think… Spontaneous Destruction is good, similar to other traits of its nature.

Grandmaster: Diabolic Inferno isn’t very good. To be worth an elite I think it should apply a buff similar to Engi Incendiary Powder when using an elite. This way you’re not pressured to waste the elite just to land a burn, but the elite allows you to choose your next few attacks wisely. Maniacal Persistence I know was buffed but I just see no realistic number that will make this build defining. I feel it should be reworked to something to generate condis, something with confusion as that seems to be missing from this trait line even though it’s on the legend skills. Pulsating Pestilence is so close, but the duration kills it. An Engi just hit you with Blowtorch for 10s of burn? Well now he takes 3 ticks of it while you still take all 10. This trait can go a couple ways I think. 1) make it a transfer with a duration of 3s, obviously that would go along with not being “all conditions” but something like 2-3. Still it’s only every 15s. The other would be to do away with the duration and leave the rest how it is. Either of those would actually make this build defining.

Invocation
Overall Invocation is solid, and a good generic trait line to pair with any legend. I feel it’s too heavy on the fury generation, 1 or 2 of those traits could be replaced with something more useful. It also seems like there are some traits that go against the way Revenant is designed.

Minors: Good choices, they seem to synergize well. I would actually bump Invoker’s Rage to 10s and get rid of the other two Fury generating traits further down in the trait line.

Adept: These are okay, I would up Cleansing Channel to 2 conditions and replace Fierce Infusion with another trait entirely (maybe that -x% energy cost per condition I was talking about earlier).

Master: Everytime I think about taking equilibrium I stop myself because I think “oy that’s just too much to micro manage”. The Rev seems set up to always swap legends at low energy, and that seems to go against this trait. I think it should be reworked. Invigorating Flow is good, though I get a chuckle at “with an energy cost” as if there were a time that weapon skills didn’t cost energy or something. Incensed Response should be reworked to something else.

Grandmaster: Roiling Mists is good. Charged Mists is sort of “meh”, a smaller scale of the micro managing I just don’t want to deal with. Maybe you want us to do that, that’s okay. This one just doesn’t feel worth that micro manage to me. It also seems like another trait that goes against how the Revenant is designed to play. The way I see it you start with 50 energy then slowly drain it until 0 then you swap to get 50 and slowly drain, rinse and repeat. There isn’t really a constant balance around 50 energy that this trait suggests. Shrouding Mists is yet another one. Not only do I not want to do this micro manage in combat but it seems go against how the Revenant plays.

Retribution
The Jalis line seems to try and fulfill what Jalis wants to be with the tanky brawler thing. It has some good choices and some really… head scratching choices. I think overall this line should help more with conditions

Minor: Solid traits that synergize well.

Adept: Where is this Dome of the Mists skill!?!? I’d love to be able to use this skill somehow. Close Quarters is also not bad, but the taunt trait is. Improved Aggression is pointless with how bad the Jalis Taunt is. Maybe this is something we’ll need in raids, but I hope Forced Engagement gets buffed long before then. Even if the taunt isn’t increased duration to players I think this trait just needs something else. It looks dangerously like a trait that certain content is going to force us into using no matter how bad it is.

Master: Two traits that compete for “when controlled” effects is okay since you want us to have to make choices, but it also is sort of a double edged sword because it’s the only choice we have in this part of the trait line. “what do when CC’d” isn’t very interesting because if I don’t care about CC I don’t have another choice. Even that choice is sort of moot when I can get protection ever 5s or a taunt every… 45s!? What about Retaliatory Evasion you might ask? Well if I’m dodging it’s because I’m avoiding big attacks. 2 seconds of retaliation after my dodge doesn’t seem very useful to me. This is an opportunity to add a more build defining trait I think.

Grandmaster: Empowering Vengeance would be good I think if Revenants could stack retaliation like Guards. But we can’t, so this trait doesn’t seem all that useful. Certainly not build defining. Reflexive Summon is great, even with the hammers changing their role from damage to more tanky I like it. Steadfast Rejuvenation is good as well, though the heal seems a little small. Say I run up on this guy in PvP and I’m using this trait. The fight lasts 40s, and it procs every single time the instant the cooldown is up. I’m only healing less than 4k from it. I don’t think that is very good.

Devastation
A good trait line for DPS that really pigeon holes you into what you should choose unfortunately.

Minor: Good traits that synergize well, it’s almost like you guys know what you’re doing with these minors!

Adept: Assassin’s Presence has no competition here. Rapid Lacerations is a fun idea but I feel the duration is so short it promotes only auto attacking and doing nothing else to keep the buff which isn’t fun. Plus at a max of 10% skill speed it doesn’t seem very impactful. Malicious Reprisal is so niche I can’t even really think of where I would want it outside of attacking a Guardian while they’re using Shelter. I would like to see Malicious Reprisal get reworked to something else, and Rapid Lacerations do something like add bleeds to attacks to make this line attractive for condis.

Master: Jade Echo is cool, I’m not sure how it will actually help you though. Unless it’s a really close team fight and you’re the first to go down? Maybe make this activate when reviving a teammate instead. Nefarious Momentum is nice, Revs can stack might really well without it though. I would like to see this add some sort of torment to assassin stance skills to create that opportunity for condi builds throughout the trait line. Ferocious Strikes is the most likely choice here, which is really good but also really boring when you already chose Assassin’s Presence. Two traits that give me +300 Ferocity is very boring considering what I said up at the top about traits really need to be more build defining for Revs.

Grandmaster: Swift Termination is good. Assassin’s Annihilation I think should have the 1/2 second cooldown treatment that Shiro’s heal got. Dismantle Fortifications is a neat idea but just can’t compete here. I think it should do something else, maybe remove another boon or two along with the 2 stacks of stability but the problem is even if the Rev removes 2 stacks of stability that’s not likely going to clear the stability from a player and Revs just don’t really have that much CC so this trait doesn’t add up like it sounds like it should.

Salvation
It remains to be seen how well this line does the healing thing that’s trying to do, I feel like there are some missed opportunities overall. The biggest issue I think is that this line is completely pointless for those not wanting full heal role. I think a few tweaks could change that and make it a good supplementary trait line for harder content or a bit more tankiness.

Minor: Disarming Riposte is a real head scratcher for me. Presumably this is the trait line you’re using while using all your energy with Ventari stuff and trying to heal people, yet this trait wants you to attack enemies while they are using skills. Doesn’t make sense to me. Also I’d like to see Hardened Foundation go Power > Healing or Toughness. I think this line should be open to those not wanting the full heal role, and thus not stacking healing power.

Adept: Nourishing Roots, 2s of regen with 3s interval really? Regen is not something that would make Revenants OP, if this line is meant for healing then give Regen out like candy I say. Guards and Eles both have passive stacking regen that will be on if they’re going full support (and even if they’re not, but I’m trying to compare similar roles here). I say give the Ventari tablet an effect like that, a regeneration like Soothing Mist or Virtue of Resolve. That also makes this line possibly appealing for those not looking for full healing roles. Blinding Truths seems good if it doesn’t have a cooldown. If I’m spamming Ventari Tablet all over the place the least it could do is protect me from enemies trying to punch me in the face. Tranquil balance seems good for that full healing role.

Master: I like that Tranquil Benediction wants to buff the staff healing orbs, one thing I think it should add is double the duration that they are on the ground for. Elluding Nullification is a great idea but needs more make it 2 condis with NO COOLDOWN. I am so confused why certain dodge traits have cooldowns, it’s already gated by energy. If we want to blow all our energy just to clear condis that should be a choice we can make.

Grandmaster: Selfless Amplification is a good trait for main healing roles, but it brings up a question for me. Basically what this is doing is the exact same thing that Healing Power does but better. So doesn’t that mean Healing Power isn’t good enough? To me this trait shouldn’t even have to exist, but it does because even in a full support role and maining the healing power stat you need more healing. I would like to see this trait not be necessary because healing power is enough on its own. Natural Abundance is too short, I tried this and 5s in combat is not enough especially if you’re avoiding AOE and trying to make your way over to it. This is a GM trait, it shouldn’t be rendered obsolete just because it took us 6s to walk to the tablet. Momentary Pacification is a good opportunity to allow non full healer roles to really want to choose this trait line but it falls very flat. 3/5 legend elite skills already CC and by the time the enemy is out of that the daze will have worn off. This is a poor grandmaster trait, I think there’s an opportunity here to do something that appeals to all builds and really makes this trait line worth considering. The first thing that comes to mind is the Ascalonian Monks in the Urban Battleground Fractal. They have a skill called “Use Heal” or something to completely obliterates you if it hits you. Something like that, make every heal the Rev does do the same amount in damage to enemies around the heal, non crit like Pulmonary Impact. Give it a recharge of 1s per enemy or something if it becomes ridiculous in testing, but I think that idea should be explored. Or more simply just every time the Rev puts out any healing, do the total amount in healing as damage in a 360 range or something. So one tick of regen for 100 on all allies does 500 damage.

Herald
The elite spec brings fantastic group support but not really great traits.

Minor: Along with the obligatory “now you can use elite spec stuff” (which I really wish wasn’t necessary) we get a couple good traits that go perfect with Glint.

Adept: Swift Gale isn’t so great, in PvP I might choose this but it doesn’t seem very meaningful. Maybe add stability so you can’t just get stunned in the middle of your nice super speed. Radiant Revival is a nice choice, but doesn’t seem as good as I thought it would be. 2s isn’t quite long enough, maybe 3 would be better. Hardening Persistence is good, I like that it synergizes with the high risk high reward Impossible Odds as well as the tanky hammers from Jalis and the nice Mallyx elite. A very solid trait.

Master: Bolster Fortification is way too short to be of any use. If we want protection we can upkeep Facet of Chaoes or burst One with Nature. This trait pales in comparison to those. Shared Empowerment is so-so, I feel like it should be 2 stacks of might instead, or just 1 for 10s. Harmonize Continuity might be good if there’s AOE stuns that will be prevalent in PvE but similar to Improved Aggression this sounds like a trait we will be forced to take due to a specific encounter, not because the trait is any good. Maybe adding stability to this trait would work so if the encounter does not have one AOE stun but individual stuns we can break ourselves out and help prevent stuns for allies for a few seconds. Something like 2 stacks of stability for 5s in addition to current effects.

Grandmaster: Elder’s Force is okay, 2% seems low. There are 11 total boons, but of those only 5 or 6 will be up frequently (you won’t have a lot of aegis, protection, quickness, resistance, stability, probably vigor). I think it would be okay to up this to 3-4%. Soothing Bastion would be a great skill if it didn’t do two things 1) interrupt the heal skill you’re probably trying to use because you’re about to die and 2) root you (yes this is feedback specifically for the shield, but still it drastically affects the usability of this trait). I like Enhanced Bulwark, I just don’t think it really changes a build all that much. I would rather drop this lower in the trait line (Maybe combine it with Harmonize Continuity or Swift Gale) to allow a spot for something more impactful here. A dynamic sort of energy management as I mentioned at the top, or something like the other trait lines have that does something depending on your energy level. Something with boons, or something that reacts with boons on you/your party/enemies. Maybe when you use an elite skill any boons that you share with your target are removed from your target and they take damage/condi for each one removed.