(edited by savacli.8172)
Revenant PvE Build
I agree on Devastation traits.
About Invocation I’ll use something different.
Fierce Infusion seems a must choice, expecially if you don’t have something like Superior Rune of Rage. However it may depend on your condi cleanse (basically just Jalis healing skill). Cleansing Channel may be mandatory.
In the second slot I’ll go with Incensed Response for extra fury, since invoking a legend breaks stuns if you have Invocation.
Also I don’t want to start unwanted fights during exploration everytime I legendswap.
Roiling Mists is a must.
Then it really depends on my tests. Corruption for simply more damage (only survival skill is healing on condi), and Retribution for damage reduction and mitigation.
It really depends on Mallyx however. If they fix it then conditions are not going to be a problem anymore.
The real problem with revenant it’s that the legends are a one trick pony and even with the modifications to the damage multipliers of weapons it brings almost no utility to the party and still the personal DPS is mediocre even when traited for it, the only truly support build for your party would be Ventari and even so the ammount of heals isn’t justified yet and also it has no boon application whatsoever, if Revenant was to be fit in the current meta only because of the damage modifiers on traits the lines you would pick to fit in would be Devastation, Corruption and Invocation, weapons would have to be Mace/Axe and Hammer, and Legends would probably be Shiro and Jalis/Ventari (which by the way you would not be using any traits that amplify those stances) only because one or two skills of those stances, again some traits are solid, others are redundant and most of the time you will be using a stance for a single skill.
Revenant needs a more indepth look by the players and props to Roy and his work until now, professions do need iteration and devs do need to hear the cries of the playerbase take a look at necromancer users, most of them wanted trait and skill changes since more than 2 years ago and most of the issues haven’t been fixed yet, class balance is hard, but if devs keep in touch with the playerbase and us the players actually state problems with a decent argument instead of just QQing we’ll get (or I hope) results, heck there’s a lot of guys that are in the top tier end of PvE that could be used as testers AND consultants and even Anet does know them because well, they’ve partnered with them for the PvE Dungeon Speedclear tournaments, but I do not know why devs haven’t asked for feedback from them, probably because the game is aimed at the more casual player market?
it brings almost no utility to the party and still the personal DPS is mediocre even when traited for it, the only truly support build for your party would be Ventari
Damage isn’t final, numbers are still being finalized, we haven’t got everything yet so they’re not going to bother with the damage on most abilities until then.
No utility?
Spammable Stability on Jalis.
High amount of heals, condi removal and probably the highest uptime on projectile protection in-game on Ventari.
150+ ferocity on Shiro (not much, but it’s there, only class bringing 150+ ferocity groupwide so far).
But again, this all isn’t final, more utility could be added or potentially (can’t see this happening) removed.
We also still have not seen what glint will be bringing utility & trait wise.
Warrior 80 | Guardian 80 | Ranger 80 | Engineer 80 |
Thief 80 | Elementalist 80 | Mesmer 80 | Necromancer 80 | Revenant TBA
Thief 80 | Elementalist 80 | Mesmer 80 | Necromancer 80 | Revenant TBA
you get maybe 1-2 good skill in every legend. a normal class could have ventari’s protection, jalis’ stability, shir’s quickness, and so on, all on the same bar. Revenant not only can’t, but needs swap toaccess them.
of course they have to be more powerful
Damage isn’t final, numbers are still being finalized, we haven’t got everything yet so they’re not going to bother with the damage on most abilities until then.
Roy already has buffed the skills, most of them around 30%, which isn’t actually that much of a change since individual coefficients are quite low even with said change.
No utility?
Spammable Stability on Jalis.
High amount of heals, condi removal and probably the highest uptime on projectile protection in-game on Ventari.
150+ ferocity on Shiro (not much, but it’s there, only class bringing 150+ ferocity groupwide so far).
Stability isn’t strong outside of WvW and PvP, also if you know when to pop up stability you don’t need to spam it, remember that energy management is important too, burst healing isn’t quite important in the current state of the game and since you have blinds/blocks/dodge/protection/weakness having regen uptime is actually better for longer fights, Revenant has moderate access to weakness and blind, but almost none to protection, it has blocks but they’re not party wide also it gives no boons to the party beisdes regen and stability, again where’s the support asides burst heals? and destroying projectiles? that’s a nice bonus but Mesmer and Guardian can do it while in fact increasing the DPS of the party, Reflects>>>Destroying projectiles, ferocity is a bonus to critical damage, each 15 points of ferocity=1% crit damage, so that’s 10% damage increase only to base critical damage and that just applies if your crit chance is high enough to crit most of the time, which means you’ll need fury uptime+precision, which you can’t give to your party members, and for that being the only reason behind S/S being fast and Impossible Odds giving quickness (the faster you hit the faster you’ll proc crits) Legendary Assassin isn’t worth taking in group situations because it just doesn’t bring anything useful to the table party wise, it’s good for PvP/WvW Roaming and maybe some solo stuff but that’s about it.
But again, this all isn’t final, more utility could be added or potentially (can’t see this happening) removed.
We also still have not seen what glint will be bringing utility & trait wise.
As you say I don’t see them adding any more utility unless they plan to do it with Glint the problem it’s that it seems to use Signets, and Signets have no party wide effects asides Courage, Mercy and Undeath, which kind of bothers me, party support is very clear in the current meta in all game modes, the problem with Revenant it’s that it has a lot of potential but needs work and with the combat mechanics in GW2 that’s a whole game changer it’s what makes professions like Elementalist Shine with 1-2 metagame builds with great adaptation, sustain and/or damage and like 4 other viable builds in all game modes, or be lackluster like Necromancer or Ranger, which has 1 meta build for 1-2 game modes and a bunch of meh or below average performance compared to most professions.
Roy already has buffed the skills, most of them around 30%, which isn’t actually that much of a change since individual coefficients are quite low even with said change.
The revenant skills, after the buffs have some of the highest coefficients in the game. There aren’t a lot of traits supporting damage, but the coefficients are actually very high.
One of the concepts that grabbed my attention was Mallyx’s Embrace the Darkness for the 15% stat boost. Anyone tested to see if that was base stats (the flat 1000) or if it also factored in equipment?
Roy already has buffed the skills, most of them around 30%, which isn’t actually that much of a change since individual coefficients are quite low even with said change.
The revenant skills, after the buffs have some of the highest coefficients in the game. There aren’t a lot of traits supporting damage, but the coefficients are actually very high.
Still the most viable build to actually make use of the potential damage that Revanant could make with the core specializations would be Devastation, Corruption and Invocation, with Mace/Axe and either Swords or Hammer, wtih Ventari and Jalis for max DPS and utility and still I don’t think that DPS and utility wise a Revenant could better than Necro or Ranger for the party, take a look at engi for example, it’s right on top with staff Elementalist for DPS, but since it can’t provide as much utility as an Ele you don’t see them in dungeon speedclears, if you’re talking casual play the Revenant is good to go with the current changes, some stances and traits do need fine tuning, mostly Legendary Demon and Legendary Centaur Stances and trait wise at most a couple traits seem unnecesary and a lot of the bonus healing from Salvation seems like an overkill and could be compressed in 1-2 major or grandmajor traits.
It looks like Corruption may indeed be the choice for max DPS as well as substituting Jalis with Mallyx particularly for Embrace the Darkness
- Replenishing Dispair: Pair with Embrace the Darkness you’ll get the stat boost but will be able to outheal the damage from the pulsing Torment.
Or - Demonic Defiance: For high condition fights the resistance would be preferred over the trickle heal.
- Bolstered Anguish: 3% more damage per condition on yourself.
- Maniacal Persistence seems like the go-to GM, but it seems that Rolling Mist will push us over the top for crit chance.
The only issue with this setup is virtually no utility outside of resistance.
- Maniacal Persistence seems like the go-to GM, but it seems that Rolling Mist will push us over the top for crit chance.
Maniacal Persistence is an absolutely terrible trait for anyone over 25% crit. It is possibly the best choice of the group of GM traits there, but it is still abysmal.
(edited by Knox.8962)
Did a bit of research,
Assuming the wiki information for Rolling Mists is correct a Revenant with a typical Berserker set of gear and fury will get just shy of 103% crit chance against level 80 targets. Against level 84 targets that crit chance drops to about 98%.
So unless the wiki text is horribly wrong or your revenant can’t get fury for whatever ungodly reason the Persistence trait adds zero value to the PvE build.
Edit: Wiki was wrong.
(edited by savacli.8172)
- Maniacal Persistence seems like the go-to GM, but it seems that Rolling Mist will push us over the top for crit chance.
Maniacal Persistence is an absolutely terrible trait for anyone over 25% crit. It is possibly the best choice of the group of GM traits there, but it is still abysmal.
Actually I just found out you literally can get to permanent 100% crit chance by given that you take Precision food or use Berserker gear or get anywhere near 50-55% base critical chanc, if you pick Devastation and Invocation. Roiling Mists gives 50% extra effectiveness to critical hit rate while under the effects of fury, and given that you switch legends each 5 seconds you have permanent fury uptime, if you have 56% base critical chance thats (56 base crit chane + 20 from fury) x 1.5= 115% crit chance while under the effects of fury, and also have 7% extra damage while under the effects of fury, maniacal persistance is a bit overkill, but since you can’t actually spam boons your fury will get stripped quite easily, not that it’s a true problem because Invoker’s rage has a 5 seconds ICD and all this is great because it means you can use either Salvation or Retribution to make other type of builds, I am eager to see what can be done with the current changes with Rev.
and given that you switch legends each 5 seconds you have permanent fury uptime
How?
You can only get Fury on healing skill (giving up to 1 cleanse on legendswap) and when breaking out of a stun. Making legendswap a stunbreaker doesn’t guarantee also fury, because you need to get stunned before breaking out of a stun.
The only way to have (almost) 100% Fury uptime is by using Superior Rune of Rage/Citadel, or by having 1 Ranger or 2 Guardians constantly buffing you.
if you have 56% base critical chance thats (56 base crit chane + 20 from fury) x 1.5= 115% crit chance while under the effects of fury, and also have 7% extra damage while under the effects of fury
You are COMPLETELY wrong about the effect of the trait that gives you 50% crit rate bonus to Fury.
Roy confirmed that it’s a buff to the normal 20%, meaning that you get 30% crit chance from Fury instead of 20%.
So given your stats and Fury+trait you can have (56 base crit chane + 30 from fury)=86%. And only uder Fury (and you DON’T have 100% uptime).
And Maniacal Persistence is objectively and statistically bad on any build over 30% crit rate. Gives an insignifant bonus.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/revenant/Let-s-talk-about-Maniacal-Persistence/first
Even Roy said it needs a buff.
If you have 86% crit rate, then Maniacal Persistence will give you less then 1% more crit rate overall (since you land crits 86% of the time, so the trait doesn’t trigger).
(edited by Kidel.2057)
Tou are COMPLETELY wrong about the effect of the trait that gives you 50% crit rate bonus to Fury.
Roy confirmed that it’s a buff to the normal 20%, meaning that you get 30% crit chance from Fury instead of 20%.
This makes way more sense. I hadn’t had a chance to play Rev in the beta, so I was completely at the mercy of the wiki.
Anyway, with that new information an average berserker Rev is looking at 78% crit chance against 80 or 75% against an 84. So while the Persistence trait isn’t exactly optimal it at least won’t go completely wasted.
It is completely wasted. Again, you get less then 3% crit rate from Maniacal Persistence if you have over 50% crit rate already, and way less then 1% if you are over 70%.
1% is meaningless.
I’m not looking to critique the quality of traits on this thread but rather what is going to offer more damage. Beyond Persistence, my options are Diabolic Inferno and Pulsating Pestilence
- Diabolic Inferno: As early as every 10 seconds cause a PBAoE upon casting an elite skill that burns foes for 4 seconds. As the concept of this build won’t have any Malice the usefulness of this trait is nearly non-existent.
- Pulsating Pestilence: Make a 3 second copy of your conditions to nearby foes as early as every 15 seconds. I can see this trait being used in condition heavy fights, but it’s too unpredictable. That, and the 3 second copy limits its usefulness since it has that 15 second ICD.
I realize that the class is still under development, thus nothing that’s posted do I consider absolutely concrete. So, while Persistence isn’t this super amazing GM trait I’m ‘slotting’ it for the sake of theory-crafting as I feel it’s currently the most useful of the three GM’s in this Spec.
(edited by savacli.8172)
Assuming you have some might stacked up, the burn wouldn’t be completely useless. They are all extremely weak traits at the moment. Hopefully they’ll see some changes.
Even with the 750 malice from 25 might stacks, we’re still looking at about 248 burning damage/second for four seconds (991 total damage on each target, up to 5 targets). This also implies that I’ll be using an elite frequently enough to make worthwhile use of the trait. Embrace the Darkness is an at-will elite, but depending on the tides of the battle I may not be able to afford the upkeep. Jade elite is out of the question since it’s a hefty 50 energy fee.
However, I would consider Diabolic Inferno superior to Pulsating Pestilence. At the very least I have control on the timing of DI to where PP is too random in its current setting.