Guild Wars 2

This has been bothering me, and a lot of people, since playing Rev in the first stress test, and even more so since the start of this beta. The lack of in combat distance versatility is harsh. Especially given we only have one ranged weapon at the moment, being hammer, which imo is extremely clunky and slow in terms of worth while dmg.

So I was thinking of maybe a conjure utility per legend. This would allow for a second weapon set per legend. Now this will not be like the Elementalists conjures, in which you get one and one drops for an ally and both have a set amount of uses. These conjures would work more like kits in which you get one for yourself and it stays until you release it. However the difference being that these conjures would have effects that benefit the legend in which you are invoking.

So are my thoughts:

Mallyx’s Claw(s). (Daggers or Staff) (Ranged alternative)

Starting off with Mallyx as he was one of my favorites from GW1. And he is Condi based, which since the patch has been my go to (love all them numbers cluttering my screen).

Given his theme is “corruption” (Like Necromances utility type) I figured this conjure would follow this theme. Every skill on the weapon would apply a self condition as well as applying conditions to the enemy. This works two fold given the condis applied to ones self are transferred with traits like Pulsating Pestilence and skills such as, well, Mallyx’s elite, Embrace the Darkness, which is lackluster given how little use it has, in general, in PvE.

Mallyx’s Claw(s): Summon a Staff/Daggers made from the claw of Mallyx. While wielding this weapon you will periodically be inflicted with torment. (Every 2 seconds; Reduced dmg with higher condition dmg).

Wild Smash: (1200: 5 targets) Mallyx strikes target and surrounding foes (130), inflicting torment and confusion. (or just torment) Self: Torment.

Consume Torment: (1200: 5 energy: single target) For each stack of torment on you deal x dmg to target foe and transfer half the stack to that foe. Self: Weakness

Banishing Enchantment: (1200: 15 energy: 5 targets) Remove boons from foes in target area (130). For each boon removed this way inflict vulnerability and deal x dmg. Self: Bleeding

Shadow Smash: (1200: 20 energy: 5 targets) Displace (240) foes around target area inflicting poison. Self: Poison

Summoning Shadows: (1200: 20 energy: 5 targets) Pull in (240) and daze foes in target area inflicting confusion. Self: Chill

These just seem like they would fit real nice with the theme of Mallyx. Hex the wielder so they can spread the corruption. The more condis on ones self the more damage they will be able to do to their foes.

I might try to do some up for Jalis and Ventari later. But at the moment I can’t really place them how I would like without making them TOO op in their respective fields.

Anyways. Open for suggestions, approval, denial, what have you. Just please keep it civil and constructive.

Jalis’s Hammer. (Hammer) (Melee alternative)

Like Mallyx focusing on crippling the invoker in order to deal more damage. Jalis will remove almost all offensive capabilities in order to better protect his allies.

Jalis’s Hammer: Summon Jalis Ironhammers’ Hammer. While wielding this weapon you will gain 200 Toughness and Vitality.

Mighty swing: (200: 5 targets) Swing in an arc.
Mighty Blow: (200: 5 targets) Damage and cripple foes in an arc.
Devistating Blow: (150: 5 targets) Bring your hammer down on your foes causing vulnerability.

To the limit: (600: 15 second cd: 5 targets) Gain x life for each foe within range.

Bonetti’s Defence: (5 seconds: 20 second cd) Gain 25% chance to block. Successful blocks grant 5 energy.

Unstoppable: (10 seconds: 40 second cd) Gain 200 Toughness, stability, and resistance.

Dwarven Battle Stance: (Maintain) Increase attack speed by 25%, gain 200 Toughness and vitality, and your attacks cause taunt (10 targets).

Future Ventari use…

I love this idea. Very well thought out! Hope the devs take a look.

I agree on your evaluation of the problem, but I am not certain on the solution. Kits or Conjures seem like a quick fix to me, one that would basically make the Revenant a heavy armored Engineer in terms of flavor/mechanics.

But build flexibility does seem too precocious and heavily dependent on the right weapon/legend combo.

A 4th utility skill seems like a must for me, but it needs to add flexibility to make different builds and not force you to take them just to fix your weapon selection.

A counter proposal would be to have the stances apply a modifier to your weapon skill; greater damage, added conditions, turning melee attacks into ranged ones, etc.

For instance, the staff could turn projectiles into healing shards instead of reflecting them when you use it to defend while under Ventari’s stance and its attacks could lift stone shock waves that have more range/cleave when using Jalis.

Of course, I realize this is basically an “Ele atunement lite”. Essentially having different attack skills depending on the stance. It may seem much when added with the utility swap but, since you only have 2 stances at a time instead of 4 atunements like Ele, it should balance out.

Even this doesn’t feel perfect tho; I would really like to see Revenant stand on his own rather than have to lift mechanics from other classes.

Nitross.6987:

Kits or Conjures seem like a quick fix to me, one that would basically make the Revenant a heavy armored Engineer in terms of flavor/mechanics.

I was thinking the same thing but at the same time, at least the way I’m thinking about it, it will feel different. As much as Conjures feel different from kits. Similar but still different enough to feel like a different mechanic.

The theme of Rev is to receive power from the Legend they are invoking. Now, gaining just utilities is sort of under powered in terms of what they could be receiving from the Legend. Now giving us a weapon that we can use that is based around the Legend we are invoking seems more thematic. And I do say CAN use because you can choose not to use this. You can choose to take your hammer and the other 3 utilities over these weapons. But these weapons will amplify how much we, as the Rev, are effected by the Legends themselves.

Also, Like I pointed towards with the Mallyx weapon, the weapons will have a sense of duality. With Mallyx it’s taking in conditions in order to deal higher condition dmg. Granted this helps it can end up hurting much more. My idea for Jalis was getting his hammer and, unlike the Revs base hammer skills, it will be nothing but tank/support abilities, aside from the auto. This would be the trade off. You would be unable to do much outside of taking aggro and being a shield for your allies. Ventari, similarly, will have an auto that still deals damage but will bestow weapon skills that are more based on healing/support. This will allow us to run a primary weapon set and still be able to use weapons that connect with our Legends.

Nitross.6987:

For instance, the staff could turn projectiles into healing shards instead of reflecting them when you use it to defend while under Ventari’s stance and its attacks could lift stone shock waves that have more range/cleave when using Jalis.

Of course, I realize this is basically an “Ele atunement lite”. Essentially having different attack skills depending on the stance.

This is why I suggested a conjure weapon based on the Legend. It follows, sort of, both rules from Elem and Engis. You get a secondary weapon set, based on your f1, while losing a situational utility in order to use it. This will also be different in that the skills will run off of our energy and if we run out while wielding the weapon it will disengage and go on it’s cool down.

Just by saying this sounds too much like Elem and Engi doesn’t mean it’s not viable and can’t be tweaked to feel different. I, personally, would prefer a “Kit/conjure” mechanic on Rev where it only has 1 weapon set to use. It is a viable trade off. I did think about weapons skills changing with the legend, because a few other people have suggested it, but my biggest issue with that is that it would feel more like Elem than a conjure/kit would.

Elem and Engi have their weapons. Elem gets to switch their skills (20 in total) with their attunements and they get 1 healing, 3 utilities and 1 elite of their choice. Engis get their 5 tool belt skills and 1 healing, 3 utilities, and 1 elite of their choice. Both of whom can choose to take a conjure/kit giving them 5 more weapon skills to choose from in combat. Rev are stuck with 5 weapon skill and 2 healing, 6 utility, 2 elite based on the Legend. Giving them a run down version of Elems attunements based on legend, Hammer becomes melee or staff becomes ranged based on Legend doesn’t really change the issue. Because then you still feel forced to run certain Legends to make sure you are able to step in and out of range.

A conjure/kit style utility, though will still be forced by Legend, will allow you to keep your main hand weapon, be it ranged or melee, but then allow you to have another option. Granted you can still end up with 3 melee weapons or 3 ranged weapons that’s 3 choices instead of 2 that you aren’t forced to actually use.

tl:dr – imo Invocation adds more versatility than just forcing range/melee on a stance swap.

I had an idea which was essentially similar. For each legend, the elite would give you access to a secondary set of skills where you really “become the legend”. It would take the appearance effect we already have for rite of the great dwarf or Embrace the Darkness but give you a new set of 1-5 skills, a bit like the death shroud of necro. Each transformation would increase some of your stats and be fairly powerful (to be worth of the elite slot). Their would have their own range (1200 for mallyx, melee for Jalis…) and feel like you are really fighting like the legend would have.
Alternatively, if we don’t want to have it as an elite since it would necessarily mean short duration, we could have it as a “weapon swap” but without actually equipping a new weapon.

Silverkey.2078:

Alternatively, if we don’t want to have it as an elite since it would necessarily mean short duration, we could have it as a “weapon swap” but without actually equipping a new weapon.

I had given thought to both these options as well. I don’t really like the idea of them being Elites as I do sort of like the elites we have now and on top of that it would give us more elites that we don’t need over other utility.

Now being a weapon swap, the more I think about it, would be more interesting. Given there would still be room for that 4th utility and we would still get a second weapon set. And given some people will argue “well why not just give them a second weapon set?” the fact remains that it will be a class specific, legend specific, weapon. Not a weapon that we will be able to switch the stats or sigils on. But a weapon that is runs off of our current stats while playing further into the theme of the Revenant’s Legends.

Either way, though. As long as they do something about the horridness that is the Revenants skill bar. I do like how they tried something new with swapping out the back half of the bar. But it just doesn’t provide enough to make it viable.

I like the general idea but like others, disagree somewhat with your implementation.

Rather, i could see the legends themselves becoming transforms, which (like an ele attune) give you new skills based on your wielded weapon – the difference being that you need not always be channeling a legend anymore.
While not channeling a legend, your weapon skills remain as they are now but are stripped of energy cost. You would have a normal set of utility skills aswell, and even 1 or 2 elites unaffiliated with any legend (or maybe the elite slot is locked out while not channeling)
When you channel a legend, you literally embody that legend, taking on altered form and all your skills (still weapon-specific for 1-5) converting to match the theme of the legend. As now, you start with 50 energy and 5 pips of generation but this should taper off, so that by the time you hit 100 energy, your energy generation has ceased and soon after begins degenerating, accelerating to -5. This would be to make legends less of a stance or attunement and more like something you can only maintain for a short while.
Your heal in legend form should also generate energy, perhaps more or less depending on how much healing it actually delivers (so if you use it at full health, it might restore more energy)

With each legend, you would be able to select a different elite and set of utilities, not at all related to what you had equipped outside legend or in another legend form.

thoughts?

If I understand well, you want a legend-specific version of weapon skills for each weapon. While that would be great, that is really unlikely because that would mean too much work. The number of different skills would be number of weapons times number of legend which is huge. Some people mention the legend adding a simple effect to each weapon. This requires less work since now the legend effect is the same for all skills (like adding torment if using Mallyx) but that would not fix at all the lack of flexibility of current weapons.

I really don’t think they would do it as it would be a lot of reword, but one could imagine something like necromancer’s death shroud. You have your weapons skills or a transform depending on your current legend which would be maintained thanks to energy. Currently, I probably played wrong, but I didn’t feel that much of difference in gameplay when switching legend. Skills 1-5 is what makes most of your gameplay. We need to have an additional legend-themed 1-5 skills in one way or another.

i agree, it would be a lot of work, but they have a lot of work ahead of them already to bring the revenant up to par. currently the class mechanic doesn’t seem like anything special – i’d almost go so far as to say that it detracts from the class.

while i agree that it’s doubtful that this is the idea they’ll actually go with, i figure at the least it can’t hurt to put the thought out there. if enough people like it they might find a workable way to implement it.

Narrrz.7532:

while i agree that it’s doubtful that this is the idea they’ll actually go with, i figure at the least it can’t hurt to put the thought out there. if enough people like it they might find a workable way to implement it.

That’s the hope. I care a little in how it is implemented, but at the same time I’m not overly stuck to any idea in particular. As long as the thought is out there to do something along these lines, that’s good enough for me. I want to like Rev. They are a homage to GW1 in many more ways than any class we have now. But the way they are currently just hurts their potential.