Guild Wars 2

I think they also have to consider that Ventari has no Stun Breakers. That should be included when balancing his healing/cleansing. If you’re forced to swap for Defense, you have to sacrifice the Tablet and all of its sustain/defense.

Malchior.5732:

I think they also have to consider that Ventari has no Stun Breakers. That should be included when balancing his healing/cleansing. If you’re forced to swap for Defense, you have to sacrifice the Tablet and all of its sustain/defense.

No doubt but we are far less prone to CC, thanks to enhanced bulkwark + Unwavering avoidance, compared to druids and tempests. Of course this was already nerfed and they’ll probably need to take that into account.

Varezenem.2813:

Malchior.5732:

I think they also have to consider that Ventari has no Stun Breakers. That should be included when balancing his healing/cleansing. If you’re forced to swap for Defense, you have to sacrifice the Tablet and all of its sustain/defense.

No doubt but we are far less prone to CC, thanks to enhanced bulkwark + Unwavering avoidance, compared to druids and tempests. Of course this was already nerfed and they’ll probably need to take that into account.

I think that’s another issue. Being pushed into Retribution + Herald just for Stab isn’t very healthy, I feel.
It covers our CC weakness in a way, but it also means we need to take 2x trait lines just so we don’t get stunned so easily and repeatedly, when I think that should be covered by the Legends mostly. Like, if you take a vulnerable Legend like Mallyx or Ventari, you should try to cover it with either Shiro or Jalis, who should both have good Stun Breaks or emergency buttons.

It’s a crutch, I feel, and it should be changed. Particularly Enhanced Bulwark since it’s the real root of the issue, doesn’t make sense in the Herald line anyway, and it isn’t healthy for a class to have such easy, brainless access to Stability. I would honestly prefer it if Unwavering Avoidance gave us Protection (something Jalis lacks) and Enhanced Bulwark modified Protection in some way to benefit both Legends/Trait lines along with much-needed Jalis buffs.

I prefer Jalis to stay boonless with unique buffs so we can benefit from protection shared by other classes. After all core rev is not supposed to be build around boons unlike herald which was supposed to alter playstyle. I gave some weeks ago suggestion to Enhanced Bulwark to improve protection by up to 40% like ele trait as it a source of all the problems with stab on dodge.. but lets look how it turned out.

I think the only legend that should be without stunbreaks is Mallyx that should be nearly immune to conditions as tradeoff. Decent system would be to make x legend being strong at x thing but being weak to x thing so players can work around it and exploit our weakness. Say Jalis being extremely resistant to power damage and hard cc but weak to soft cc and conditions in general.

Malchior.5732:

Varezenem.2813:

Malchior.5732:

I think they also have to consider that Ventari has no Stun Breakers. That should be included when balancing his healing/cleansing. If you’re forced to swap for Defense, you have to sacrifice the Tablet and all of its sustain/defense.

No doubt but we are far less prone to CC, thanks to enhanced bulkwark + Unwavering avoidance, compared to druids and tempests. Of course this was already nerfed and they’ll probably need to take that into account.

I think that’s another issue. Being pushed into Retribution + Herald just for Stab isn’t very healthy, I feel.
It covers our CC weakness in a way, but it also means we need to take 2x trait lines just so we don’t get stunned so easily and repeatedly, when I think that should be covered by the Legends mostly. Like, if you take a vulnerable Legend like Mallyx or Ventari, you should try to cover it with either Shiro or Jalis, who should both have good Stun Breaks or emergency buttons.

It’s a crutch, I feel, and it should be changed. Particularly Enhanced Bulwark since it’s the real root of the issue, doesn’t make sense in the Herald line anyway, and it isn’t healthy for a class to have such easy, brainless access to Stability. I would honestly prefer it if Unwavering Avoidance gave us Protection (something Jalis lacks) and Enhanced Bulwark modified Protection in some way to benefit both Legends/Trait lines along with much-needed Jalis buffs.

This is something I can agree on. But if they did it they would have to greatly increase ventaris access to cleanses or stability/stun breaks. It would probably be the latter to avoid a overly heavy synergy with jalis.

Burtnik.5218:

I prefer Jalis to stay boonless with unique buffs so we can benefit from protection shared by other classes. After all core rev is not supposed to be build around boons unlike herald which was supposed to alter playstyle. I gave some weeks ago suggestion to Enhanced Bulwark to improve protection by up to 40% like ele trait as it a source of all the problems with stab on dodge.. but lets look how it turned out.

I think the only legend that should be without stunbreaks is Mallyx that should be nearly immune to conditions as tradeoff.

Sounds good too. Including a stunbreak in is somewhat hard too TBH.

Burtnik.5218:

I prefer Jalis to stay boonless with unique buffs so we can benefit from protection shared by other classes. After all core rev is not supposed to be build around boons unlike herald which was supposed to alter playstyle. I gave some weeks ago suggestion to Enhanced Bulwark to improve protection by up to 40% like ele trait as it a source of all the problems with stab on dodge.. but lets look how it turned out.

I think the only legend that should be without stunbreaks is Mallyx that should be nearly immune to conditions as tradeoff. Decent system would be to make x legend being strong at x thing but being weak to x thing so players can work around it and exploit our weakness. Say Jalis being extremely resistant to power damage and hard cc but weak to soft cc and conditions in general.

That’d be great too.
I just want Mallyx to be that all-out, offensive beast. A high-risk, high-reward Condition Legend (or alternatively a more midrange-type deal, but with far better defense against Conditions than the others) while Jalis can be that reliable, hard-to-take down wall, but can succumb to soft-CC and Condi-bombs.

Malchior.5732:

Burtnik.5218:

I prefer Jalis to stay boonless with unique buffs so we can benefit from protection shared by other classes. After all core rev is not supposed to be build around boons unlike herald which was supposed to alter playstyle. I gave some weeks ago suggestion to Enhanced Bulwark to improve protection by up to 40% like ele trait as it a source of all the problems with stab on dodge.. but lets look how it turned out.

I think the only legend that should be without stunbreaks is Mallyx that should be nearly immune to conditions as tradeoff. Decent system would be to make x legend being strong at x thing but being weak to x thing so players can work around it and exploit our weakness. Say Jalis being extremely resistant to power damage and hard cc but weak to soft cc and conditions in general.

That’d be great too.
I just want Mallyx to be that all-out, offensive beast. A high-risk, high-reward Condition Legend (or alternatively a more midrange-type deal, but with far better defense against Conditions than the others) while Jalis can be that reliable, hard-to-take down wall, but can succumb to soft-CC and Condi-bombs.

In your opinion, after removing enhanced bulwark, how strong would it be to give purifying essence an AoE stunbreak and reducing the energy cost to 25?

Varezenem.2813:

Malchior.5732:

Burtnik.5218:

I prefer Jalis to stay boonless with unique buffs so we can benefit from protection shared by other classes. After all core rev is not supposed to be build around boons unlike herald which was supposed to alter playstyle. I gave some weeks ago suggestion to Enhanced Bulwark to improve protection by up to 40% like ele trait as it a source of all the problems with stab on dodge.. but lets look how it turned out.

I think the only legend that should be without stunbreaks is Mallyx that should be nearly immune to conditions as tradeoff. Decent system would be to make x legend being strong at x thing but being weak to x thing so players can work around it and exploit our weakness. Say Jalis being extremely resistant to power damage and hard cc but weak to soft cc and conditions in general.

That’d be great too.
I just want Mallyx to be that all-out, offensive beast. A high-risk, high-reward Condition Legend (or alternatively a more midrange-type deal, but with far better defense against Conditions than the others) while Jalis can be that reliable, hard-to-take down wall, but can succumb to soft-CC and Condi-bombs.

In your opinion, after removing enhanced bulwark, how strong would it be to give purifying essence an AoE stunbreak and reducing the energy cost to 25?

Assuming the Stun Break is around the Tablet, I think that would be more than fair (even if it was player + Tablet, it’d be fair).

1. Needs to be aimed and the location of the tablet needs to be considered constantly.
2. 25 Energy isn’t cheap.
3. You either save it for Condition Cleansing or for Stun breaking (or both). There’s a clear opportunity cost here, but also helps save you from getting Fear-chained by a Condi Necro or something.

I think it would be fine. At worst, and I really don’t think it’d be necessary, increase the Cooldown a tad.

Malchior.5732:

Burtnik.5218:

I prefer Jalis to stay boonless with unique buffs so we can benefit from protection shared by other classes. After all core rev is not supposed to be build around boons unlike herald which was supposed to alter playstyle. I gave some weeks ago suggestion to Enhanced Bulwark to improve protection by up to 40% like ele trait as it a source of all the problems with stab on dodge.. but lets look how it turned out.

I think the only legend that should be without stunbreaks is Mallyx that should be nearly immune to conditions as tradeoff. Decent system would be to make x legend being strong at x thing but being weak to x thing so players can work around it and exploit our weakness. Say Jalis being extremely resistant to power damage and hard cc but weak to soft cc and conditions in general.

That’d be great too.
I just want Mallyx to be that all-out, offensive beast. A high-risk, high-reward Condition Legend (or alternatively a more midrange-type deal, but with far better defense against Conditions than the others) while Jalis can be that reliable, hard-to-take down wall, but can succumb to soft-CC and Condi-bombs.

In case of Mallyx not sure how it goes with you but i would personally bring him back to bwe2 glory with little modifications. Demonic defiant reduced to 1sec resistance and icd removed and change maniacal persistance to pulse resistance in embrance the darkness. A bit trait dependent but without them power revs would have it way easy to be nearly immune to condi. Thats something i have in my notes to rev rework but its not ready to be revealed just yet.. What you think either way? And no, stacking resistance with pain absord wont be possible anymore – in my notes at least.

Varezenem.2813:

In your opinion, after removing enhanced bulwark, how strong would it be to give purifying essence an AoE stunbreak and reducing the energy cost to 25?

Question wasnt really aimed towards me but if anything it should be a self stunbreak with 30 energy that can happen only in youre in radius of the tablet. We actually have a trait in herald to aoe stunbreaking. I would remove the cd tho. Only cc skills should have cd’s really as rest can and should be managed by energy.

Burtnik.5218:

In case of Mallyx not sure how it goes with you but i would personally bring him back to bwe2 glory with little modifications. Demonic defiant reduced to 1sec resistance and icd removed and change maniacal persistance to pulse resistance in embrance the darkness. A bit trait dependent but without them power revs would have it way easy to be nearly immune to condi. Thats something i have in my notes to rev rework but its not ready to be revealed just yet.. What you think either way? And no, stacking resistance with pain absord wont be possible anymore – in my notes at least.

That’d be awesome. Would love to play BWE2 Mallyx again.
I think that change might make Maniacal Persistence too necessary of a GM though, or at least the other options need to be pretty strong to make you pick them at all.

I like the idea of modifying Embrace the Darkness though. Maybe have Maniacal Persistence pulse Resistance for the Revenant while using EtD, while Pulsating Pestilence could maybe be a lot more aggressive and do something like increasing the damage enemies take from conditions by a certain amount, but also increasing the damage you take (this might be too much of a drawback in post-HoT, although it would make PvE Condi Rev more viable). The idea is to have a GM that helps you against Conditions (more of a mid-range/defensive option), another applies to every other legend (we want Corruption to be useful for every Legend in some way), and the last one could be for a full glass cannon Condition build.
Something like that would be interesting. I have wilder ideas, but they’re way too unrealistic this far into the Revenant’s development.

As long as Mallyx remains really weak to CC and is cursed to not have a proper ranged weapon, I think giving him powerful skills is justified, at least to a certain degree.

Malchior.5732:

Assuming the Stun Break is around the Tablet, I think that would be more than fair (even if it was player + Tablet, it’d be fair).

1. Needs to be aimed and the location of the tablet needs to be considered constantly.
2. 25 Energy isn’t cheap.
3. You either save it for Condition Cleansing or for Stun breaking (or both). There’s a clear opportunity cost here, but also helps save you from getting Fear-chained by a Condi Necro or something.

I think it would be fine. At worst, and I really don’t think it’d be necessary, increase the Cooldown a tad.

It was meant as centered around the tablet. And your conclusion seems to be the same.

Burtnik.5218:

Question wasnt really aimed towards me but if anything it should be a self stunbreak with 30 energy that can happen only in youre in radius of the tablet. We actually have a trait in herald to aoe stunbreaking. I would remove the cd tho. Only cc skills should have cd’s really as rest can and should be managed by energy.

This version could work too. The overall condi cleanse output wouldn’t change but we would be able to spike it.
Following you idea of removing the cooldown on all utilities, except CC, how would you make it work with the tablet movement/summoning while reducing the clunkiness?

Malchior.5732:

I think that change might make Maniacal Persistence too necessary of a GM though, or at least the other options need to be pretty strong to make you pick them at all.

Theres no other way to make it balanced tho. As i said baseline pulsing resistance would be too strong in power builds.. thats what i think at least. In general im up for traits being optional rather than forced. It could ofc be baseline if it wont end up too op but i doubt it ever happen with current balancing team.

Without balance split between modes some traits will also end up being stronger than the other ones tho. Burn on elite would be picked mostly in pve as a example. As for pulsating.. i have no idea what to do with it yet but 2 traits about the same elite skill seems odd to me (and it would result in 3 Mallyx traits total)

Varezenem.2813:

Following you idea of removing the cooldown on all utilities, except CC, how would you make it work with the tablet movement/summoning while reducing the clunkiness?

Hard to answer. I am personally up for making the tablet autocasted at rev position upon swapping to Ventari and remove the whole summon/destroy tablet thing.

“Healing skill” on it own changed to insta cast and tablet movement to a teleport. If it happen to be too strong up the energy cost to balance it out. Insta cast also means you can control tablet under cc, so if you happened to get cc’ed far from tablet you can always recall it at your position and stunbreak but the energy cost in the end will end up higher than if you was cced in tablet radius.

Burtnik.5218:

Malchior.5732:

I think that change might make Maniacal Persistence too necessary of a GM though, or at least the other options need to be pretty strong to make you pick them at all.

Theres no other way to make it balanced tho. As i said baseline pulsing resistance would be too strong in power builds.. thats what i think at least. In general im up for traits being optional rather than forced. It could ofc be baseline if it wont end up too op but i doubt it ever happen with current balancing team.

Without balance split between modes some traits will also end up being stronger than the other ones tho. Burn on elite would be picked mostly in pve as a example. As for pulsating.. i have no idea what to do with it yet but 2 traits about the same elite skill seems odd to me (and it would result in 3 Mallyx traits total)

Power builds would still need to run Corruption for the perma-Resistence while in EtD (not to mention having to always activate EtD) so there’s that.

Pulsating Pestilence could be changed so that all Conditions on you are pulsed once when you activate a Stance skill on an ICD? I’m kinda stumped on this trait. Pulsing resistance would just be too good to give up in PvP and PvE would definitely prefer Diabolical Inferno.

Could the pulsing Resistance on EtD maybe be pushed into the GM Minor slot? Yea, that’s a pretty powerful Minor, but it does free up the other traits so the competition isn’t as fierce and Power builds would still need to take Corruption, run Mallyx, and pop EtD without the safety net of Perma-Stab.

Malchior.5732:

And your proof that complainers don’t have knowledge of overall class direction?

Well, unless any of you are Anet devs working on class conception and balance, I think I got that one nailed buddy. If all your assumptions about how the changes will impact the class are based on what you think will happen in other class changes and the game overall, you’re going to have a tough go at it.

Don’t get me wrong; I would LOVE to see a roadmap on how this class will develop over time to understand the WHY of these last changes, but Anet doesn’t work that way.

Obtena.7952:

Malchior.5732:

And your proof that complainers don’t have knowledge of overall class direction?

Well, unless any of you are Anet devs working on class conception and balance, I think I got that one nailed buddy. If all your assumptions about how the changes will impact the class are based on what you think will happen in other class changes and the game overall, you’re going to have a tough go at it.

Don’t get me wrong; I would LOVE to see a roadmap on how this class will develop over time to understand the WHY of these last changes, but Anet doesn’t work that way.

If you don’t have an argument, you can just say so.

EDIT: I don’t know if you think assumptions are inherently bad, but I can make guesses based on what I know about the classes, and the combat, and have an idea of what it would be like. That doesn’t mean it will be like that, but there’s a chance it will.
If I assume Enhanced Bulwark + Unwavering Avoidance is changed and no longer gives Stability, then that would open up Revenant to a lot more CC in every build. This isn’t just a blind guess. It’s a very likely possibility.

Now, if I assume that change happens, but then I also assume that we buff up our Stun Break options, then there’s a chance, a likely one, that Revenant will still have a weakness to CC in most builds, but it wont be covered as easily, nor in such a braindead manner, while also allowing the Revenant some play.

These are ideas and suggestions using assumptions. Will Anet do them? Well, history shows that they do listen to feedback every so often. It also shows as that they can make good balance patches and smart decisions.
So, it’s in my best interest, if I want this class and this game to get better, to complain and suggest.

I don’t need to have a roadmap to see their development plan. Their ideas obviously change over item. It’s not an absolute. I also don’t need to know the future to know that these last few changes were short-sighted. They want Sword to “single out targets”, but left Sword 2 and 3 in a state where singling out someone from a crowd is literally impossible. It’s a good concept, but their execution failed to consider the variables. Now we’re left with a half-functional weapon that works sometimes and sometimes it doesn’t.

That isn’t the most accurate example, I guess. So lets take Thief Auto-attacks then.
Is it a good change or not? Well, I don’t need to predict the future here either.
It’s a quick, easy bandaid “fix” to a problem in the old metagame or at best, a very dumb way of fixing the underlying Thief issues in PvE.

tl;dr
I don’t need to know the future to make smart guesses. I don’t need to stop complaining about Anet’s bad decisions. I don’t need to know their future plans to know they’re bad decisions.

Agemnon.4608:

The overwhelming consensus last season was that revenant was overpowered. I thought nerfing overpowered classes lead to balance (you know, that thing all players want and devs actively work towards)?

The “Op” in sPvP was conditional build. The nerfs were all to power build. Makes sense does not?!

otto.5684:

Agemnon.4608:

The overwhelming consensus last season was that revenant was overpowered. I thought nerfing overpowered classes lead to balance (you know, that thing all players want and devs actively work towards)?

The “Op” in sPvP was conditional build. The nerfs were all to power build. Makes sense does not?!

I played power rev and it did feel strong in 1v1 and securing stomp scenarios (between sword 5 or staff 5 for helping someone else secure a stomp by pushing off rezzers or dodge for stability for stomping ourselves) and a well timed jade winds could radically change things in a group fight on point.

Mallyx revs did feel quite strong though, the torment and confusion are an ugly combination since they make a player defeat themselves (confusion causes harm if you use a skill while torment does damage while you move) but were still somewhat beatable. Conditions across the board need toning down especially after the introduction of Viper’s where there are stats dedicated to prolonging them on top of the added potency.

Malchior.5732:

Burtnik.5218:

Malchior.5732:

I think that change might make Maniacal Persistence too necessary of a GM though, or at least the other options need to be pretty strong to make you pick them at all.

Theres no other way to make it balanced tho. As i said baseline pulsing resistance would be too strong in power builds.. thats what i think at least. In general im up for traits being optional rather than forced. It could ofc be baseline if it wont end up too op but i doubt it ever happen with current balancing team.

Without balance split between modes some traits will also end up being stronger than the other ones tho. Burn on elite would be picked mostly in pve as a example. As for pulsating.. i have no idea what to do with it yet but 2 traits about the same elite skill seems odd to me (and it would result in 3 Mallyx traits total)

Power builds would still need to run Corruption for the perma-Resistence while in EtD (not to mention having to always activate EtD) so there’s that.

Pulsating Pestilence could be changed so that all Conditions on you are pulsed once when you activate a Stance skill on an ICD? I’m kinda stumped on this trait. Pulsing resistance would just be too good to give up in PvP and PvE would definitely prefer Diabolical Inferno.

Could the pulsing Resistance on EtD maybe be pushed into the GM Minor slot? Yea, that’s a pretty powerful Minor, but it does free up the other traits so the competition isn’t as fierce and Power builds would still need to take Corruption, run Mallyx, and pop EtD without the safety net of Perma-Stab.

If you put it into a minor trait then anyone going for corruption line without picking up Mallyx for whatever reason will end up with one trait less. We have similiar situation in salvation atm with healing power conversation to toughness trait. These traits should be optional. No doubt that resistance would become meta in pvp tho but at same time it will be useless in pve. Thats so far how it look like, blanked points are tbd.

• Minor

Opportune Extraction – Torment has increased damage to stationary foes by 100%. (equal damage to mobile foes)

Something needed for pve that we was supposed to get in place of current boon strip on launch.

• Adept

1. Demonic Defiance – Reduced duration of resistance to 1 second. Removed icd
2. Replenishing Despair – Removed icd, reduced healing to ~80
3. Venom Enhancement – Cd reduced to 10. Poison also deals 33% more damage

• Master

1. Frigid Precision -

• GM

1. Maniacal Persistence – Embrace the Darkness pulses resistance (1s) every second.

2. Pulsating Pestilence -

• Mallyx. Stance focused on manipulating conditions and being highly resistant to them. Weakness; Hard cc, power damage, focus.

1. Empowering Misery – In addition to current heal rev also gains 3 seconds of resistance (applied before healing)
2. Pain Absorption –
3. Banish Enchantment – Increased energy cost to 25

If it still remain overpowered next change would be to reduce base duration of confusion/reduced confusion stacks to 2.

4. Embrace the Darkness – Also copy conditions to nearby foes every second. Duration of copied conditions last 3 sec base. Increased energy cost to -8

Overpowered?

On the CC front, our primary source of stability was nerfed pretty hard. The method in which we got stability already meant we had to give up our endurance and trade it for stability as a cost. In addition, many of our lines lack sources of stability or stunbreaks. While the pinnacle of our stunbreaks, Riposting Shadows, is fantastic any other line basically suffers immensely. Inspiring Reinforcements was gutted, doesn’t break stun, and Rite of the Great Dwarf has an immense energy cost to be practical. I’m sure on a smaller scale fight of SPvP this seemed like permanent CC protection but on any larger scales, especially WvW, it is basically non-existent.

On the Condition front, Mallyx was the primary way to deal with Conditions but was nerfed directly to Demonic Defiance previously as well as with said resistance being our primary method to deal with Conditions we’re now even more vulnerable with the increase to stripping/converting Boons.

We also had rather high recovery options such as Infuse Light and Crystal Hibernation to previously deal with some of these downsides but Infuse Light saw a duration decrease and Facet of Light caught a cast time meanwhile Crystal Hibernation retained all it’s various downsides (predictably channeled immobilize) while losing a good chunk of it’s recovery.

Sword was changed simply because the other options weren’t as good as auto attacking and rather than address that they chose to just directly nerf auto attacks which allowed us to predictably apply DPS and instead transferred it into an attack we have very little control over it’s targeting. I already had an attack that was useless with multiple targets around, now I have two while they reduced the one that I could control. Thanks, Anet.

Hammer’s CORuin change was a colossal kick in the jimmies. Not because it shouldn’t be able to hit a target multiple times, but because two Revenants have the potential to negate each others damage. I can’t stress how absurd it is. I don’t want to flippantly throw around words like “lazy solution” but quite frankly allowing one person to negate another person’s damage is the kind of thing people should get written up for allowing it to ever get into production. It is literal incompetence.

They went after our damage, they went after our extremely limited ability to deal with CC, they went after our limited ability to deal with conditions, and they went after our recovery. That isn’t balance. Balance is: Your method of dealing with conditions is too good, we’re changing that, and adding in a different way for you to deal with them. Balance is: Your auto attack damage is too good, you already have uncontrollable DPS, we’re changing this other ability so you have more predictable DPS here to compensate.

The balance team of this game has always been the number one factor holding the game back. It’s why SPvP was largely a niche of the game prior to HOT. It’s why PvE was basically stack and burn until HOT. It’s why WvW has always been the butt end joke for game balance. What changed with HOT? We had new developers come in, design new specializations, and they opened up new ways to play the game. Expansion over, welcome back old balance team, time to run the game right back into the ground again.

Yep.. pretty much sword is not viable anymore nor pwoer rev in general. Atm condi is the way to go as they completely broken sword. Its the only weapon in game that deals less and less damage when more than 1 target shows up. You can also forget about shield or hammer. One patch ruined viability of 3 weapons which leaves us with mace/axe being the only viable set now. Build diversity ftw

Burtnik.5218:

Yep.. pretty much sword is not viable anymore nor pwoer rev in general. Atm condi is the way to go as they completely broken sword. Its the only weapon in game that deals less and less damage when more than 1 target shows up. You can also forget about shield or hammer. One patch ruined viability of 3 weapons which leaves us with mace/axe being the only viable set now. Build diversity ftw

I do agree, which is why I again don’t understand their reasoning when they say they want sword to be good for single targets when it seems to want to be a multi target weapon, but doesn’t have the damage to do so since it relies on multihit skills. Heck sword 5 only really goes with their philosophy because of its ability to drag people out of position.

Hammer, nerf again is understandable, except for the can only be hit once every .5 seconds thing. That has to be a bug….as for giving it more gap control, I’d say make 3 and actual leap and hammer 5 to be more like a home run hit that sends people flying back instead of the knockdown it has now, and of course lessen the cast time to something reasonable.

the 0,5 sec only 1 hit per target PER REVENANT, that was what they tried to do. I think. If not, then thats completly destroying zerg fights for me.
“Hey, your guild has many Revenants using hammer in GvGs, lets cut that out. Go use more thief, or no. Please use daredevil. Wait you dont want to? Ok we will buff it up like DonaldTrumps wig”
10 Minutes later: “Why the hell are there 70% Daredevils in WvW?”

Burtnik.5218:

If you put it into a minor trait then anyone going for corruption line without picking up Mallyx for whatever reason will end up with one trait less. We have similiar situation in salvation atm with healing power conversation to toughness trait. These traits should be optional. No doubt that resistance would become meta in pvp tho but at same time it will be useless in pve. Thats so far how it look like, blanked points are tbd.

• Minor

Opportune Extraction – Torment has increased damage to stationary foes by 100%. (equal damage to mobile foes)

Something needed for pve that we was supposed to get in place of current boon strip on launch.

• Adept

1. Demonic Defiance – Reduced duration of resistance to 1 second. Removed icd
2. Replenishing Despair – Removed icd, reduced healing to ~80
3. Venom Enhancement – Cd reduced to 10. Poison also deals 33% more damage

• Master

1. Frigid Precision -

• GM

1. Maniacal Persistence – Embrace the Darkness pulses resistance (1s) every second.

2. Pulsating Pestilence -

• Mallyx. Stance focused on manipulating conditions and being highly resistant to them. Weakness; Hard cc, power damage, focus.

1. Empowering Misery – In addition to current heal rev also gains 3 seconds of resistance (applied before healing)
2. Pain Absorption –
3. Banish Enchantment – Increased energy cost to 25

If it still remain overpowered next change would be to reduce base duration of confusion/reduced confusion stacks to 2.

4. Embrace the Darkness – Also copy conditions to nearby foes every second. Duration of copied conditions last 3 sec base. Increased energy cost to -8

Overpowered?

I think those changes are fine honestly.

Few notes:
- I didn’t really make my suggestion too clear: Have the pulsing resistance trait + the Torment duration we already have. It’s a lot for a Minor trait, but Power builds would still need to jump through a few hoops to get it and it frees up the GM traits.

- The equal damage on Torment thing should maybe be PvE-only? Keep the boon strip we have and add that damage to it. The problem might arise that a Revenant’s Torment no longer has any inherent counter-play in PvP. Yea, I realize that standing still in PvP isn’t always a great idea anyway, but if you have Torment on you, you have the option of standing still to minimize damage. Adding that trait removes that concept and just makes it a superior Bleed. Could be 75% in PvP and 100% in PvE maybe.

Otherwise, I think this is pretty good so far.

Also, the Hammer CoR issues seems like it’s going to be resolved soon. Gaile just confirmed that the single hit every 0.5 seconds is a bug. I still think they should nerf the damage a bit on CoR and improve 3 and 5 for kiting while moving some of the damage to them as well. Make them more worthwhile to use.

Or just make it baseline and see what happens.. if it end up too strong then it can be added as gm trait instead which would be fair tbh. That boonstrip trait is not something we need tho.. its just a passive.

As fr torment nn pvp i dont think i have anyone seen standing still unless it was selfroot skill/rez/downstate. Unfortunately devs dont split balance between modes (a poor joke but okay..) but in the end i dont think it would cause too many troubles. Also pvp has pve elements too – foefire/stronghold as example.
I think it would be better to start with 100% and tone it down eventually to 75% if it end up being strong but i doubt it tbh.. General problem is that torment is our main condition and its placed on a melee weapon. Feelsbadman.

As for the cough hammer cough.. I doubt they fix terrain issues for CoR. I had idea for phase smash tho to be a melee retreat skill. Thats means rev enters into evade state, slams hammer down on his location (0,75s casttime) and teleports 600 meters away. Now it can be used as both evade and kiting ability.

Nah, that would make Phase Smash actually useful :^)

I would love it if Phase Smash did that. Drop the Hammer could just have its cast time reduced to 1s or 3/4s as the animation is already a giant, hard-to-miss sign and that could be fine. Alternatively, Drop the Hammer could be changed into a knockback along with a cast time reduction.

Drop the hammer would be fine if it worked like https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Orbital_Strike

3/4 cast, 1 sec delay. Projectile block changed to insta as it feels awkward to dodge something like pin down when you have a projectile deflect, cor changed to a projectile type attack like tremor, most likely removed range penalty and.. that is.

Agemnon.4608:

otto.5684:

Agemnon.4608:

The overwhelming consensus last season was that revenant was overpowered. I thought nerfing overpowered classes lead to balance (you know, that thing all players want and devs actively work towards)?

The “Op” in sPvP was conditional build. The nerfs were all to power build. Makes sense does not?!

I played power rev and it did feel strong in 1v1 and securing stomp scenarios (between sword 5 or staff 5 for helping someone else secure a stomp by pushing off rezzers or dodge for stability for stomping ourselves) and a well timed jade winds could radically change things in a group fight on point.

Mallyx revs did feel quite strong though, the torment and confusion are an ugly combination since they make a player defeat themselves (confusion causes harm if you use a skill while torment does damage while you move) but were still somewhat beatable. Conditions across the board need toning down especially after the introduction of Viper’s where there are stats dedicated to prolonging them on top of the added potency.

I could not resist picking on your post. So we are balancing stuff based on 1v1 now?! And rev was not and is not the strongest point holder by any means. May I add that all what you mentioned, sword 5, staff and Jade wind, are still the same. So based on your statement I can conclude that anet nerfed the wrong stuff, right?

To be fair, I think anet had the right ideas in mind, but the execution was beyond terrible. What is really disappointing is that the under/non performing skills/traits are untouched. So we nerf power, leave everything else the same, call it a day, and play a different class I guess.

otto.5684:

Agemnon.4608:

otto.5684:

Agemnon.4608:

The overwhelming consensus last season was that revenant was overpowered. I thought nerfing overpowered classes lead to balance (you know, that thing all players want and devs actively work towards)?

The “Op” in sPvP was conditional build. The nerfs were all to power build. Makes sense does not?!

I played power rev and it did feel strong in 1v1 and securing stomp scenarios (between sword 5 or staff 5 for helping someone else secure a stomp by pushing off rezzers or dodge for stability for stomping ourselves) and a well timed jade winds could radically change things in a group fight on point.

Mallyx revs did feel quite strong though, the torment and confusion are an ugly combination since they make a player defeat themselves (confusion causes harm if you use a skill while torment does damage while you move) but were still somewhat beatable. Conditions across the board need toning down especially after the introduction of Viper’s where there are stats dedicated to prolonging them on top of the added potency.

I could not resist picking on your post. So we are balancing stuff based on 1v1 now?! And rev was not and is not the strongest point holder by any means. May I add that all what you mentioned, sword 5, staff and Jade wind, are still the same. So based on your statement I can conclude that anet nerfed the wrong stuff, right?

To be fair, I think Anet had the right ideas in mind, but the execution was beyond terrible. What is really disappointing is that the under/non performing skills/traits are untouched. So we nerf power, leave everything else the same, call it a day, and play a different class I guess.

You have to remember that amulets were removed so opponents are far less tanky now. Yeah the facet of light nerf wasn’t necessary while Mallyx could be over the top. The autoattack sustain was also quite high and still decent and everyone said UA was over the top (as bugged as it could get). It might have got hit too hard but it only seemed balanced in the context of an overly tanky bunker meta, which is gone now. Rev does have weaknesses (like heals depending on conditional factors like getting hit or hitting someone else and poor condition cleansing) but one must be aware of them and try working around them.

I wanted them to buff Ventari but it could have been a delicate balancing act since if they reduced the charge time and energy requirements to seemingly reasonable levels it might end up OP in node battles but I personally think it’d be balanced out by a relatively high skill floor. There are times you need to use weapons and times you’d need to cleanse, heal, and even burst the tablet for a tactical knockback. The legend should probably be reworked at a deeper level than even that though.

Agemnon.4608:

otto.5684:

Agemnon.4608:

otto.5684:

Agemnon.4608:

The overwhelming consensus last season was that revenant was overpowered. I thought nerfing overpowered classes lead to balance (you know, that thing all players want and devs actively work towards)?

The “Op” in sPvP was conditional build. The nerfs were all to power build. Makes sense does not?!

I played power rev and it did feel strong in 1v1 and securing stomp scenarios (between sword 5 or staff 5 for helping someone else secure a stomp by pushing off rezzers or dodge for stability for stomping ourselves) and a well timed jade winds could radically change things in a group fight on point.

Mallyx revs did feel quite strong though, the torment and confusion are an ugly combination since they make a player defeat themselves (confusion causes harm if you use a skill while torment does damage while you move) but were still somewhat beatable. Conditions across the board need toning down especially after the introduction of Viper’s where there are stats dedicated to prolonging them on top of the added potency.

I could not resist picking on your post. So we are balancing stuff based on 1v1 now?! And rev was not and is not the strongest point holder by any means. May I add that all what you mentioned, sword 5, staff and Jade wind, are still the same. So based on your statement I can conclude that anet nerfed the wrong stuff, right?

To be fair, I think Anet had the right ideas in mind, but the execution was beyond terrible. What is really disappointing is that the under/non performing skills/traits are untouched. So we nerf power, leave everything else the same, call it a day, and play a different class I guess.

You have to remember that amulets were removed so opponents are far less tanky now. Yeah the facet of light nerf wasn’t necessary while Mallyx could be over the top. The autoattack sustain was also quite high and still decent and everyone said UA was over the top (as bugged as it could get). It might have got hit too hard but it only seemed balanced in the context of an overly tanky bunker meta, which is gone now. Rev does have weaknesses (like heals depending on conditional factors like getting hit or hitting someone else and poor condition cleansing) but one must be aware of them and try working around them.

I wanted them to buff Ventari but it could have been a delicate balancing act since if they reduced the charge time and energy requirements to seemingly reasonable levels it might end up OP in node battles but I personally think it’d be balanced out by a relatively high skill floor. There are times you need to use weapons and times you’d need to cleanse, heal, and even burst the tablet for a tactical knockback. The legend should probably be reworked at a deeper level than even that though.

Well IMO removing the cast time on movement will rise the skill ceiling by a lot.

I thought that Rev are trash to but when I have played pvp one vs one I think they got buffed cause is doing now 5.5 dmg on 1v1 and it’s have a really short cooldown

fran.8157:

I thought that Rev are trash to but when I have played pvp one vs one I think they got buffed cause is doing now 5.5 dmg on 1v1 and it’s have a really short cooldown

Yep, but watch out for boxes.
Or not being inside your opponent

Tipper.6973:

Dragon Stance heal WAS too accessible. It was probably the strongest heal in the game, and remains quite good.

Say wut, warrior has had the same heal for ages and with a bigger hp pool and never used it.

The nerfs they did were fine. They just didn’t also fix the outstanding issues or acknowledge them… You know, the issues that have been a thing since BWE3. With the necro buffs and bunker nerds, condi revs are kinda just food rn (Im using sages too) so there’s a lot to be desired.

Dwarf healing ability still slowed by thieves.
When does they do all good…

sword3 still slowed by thieves, still not hitting. Want more? Facet of Light getting slowed by thieves, about 10 skills going on full CD when interrupted. GG anet

Slow hardcounter rev too much in general. It was really kittened to give thieves such powerful stolen item that can result in 50% uptime slow and hits like a truck (4k crit) to a class without condi removal. Might as well just afk. The interesing thing i noticed however is that it seems to increase animation casts by 100% rather than 50% tho.

I will admit that in pve anyway I’ve seen a lot less revs lately

Less revs? more like in extinction.

Usually a class is played more when damage gets buffed but rev seems to be different

DeoDose.4237:

Usually a class is played more when damage gets buffed but rev seems to be different

What damage buff you speaking about? I missed something?
Its rare to see rev nowdays btw let it be pve or pvp.

Burtnik.5218:

DeoDose.4237:

Usually a class is played more when damage gets buffed but rev seems to be different

What damage buff you speaking about? I missed something?
Its rare to see rev nowdays btw let it be pve or pvp.

sword #2 guarantees 3 projectiles whitch is a big dps gain, even with the sword #1 nerf

DeoDose.4237:

Burtnik.5218:

DeoDose.4237:

Usually a class is played more when damage gets buffed but rev seems to be different

What damage buff you speaking about? I missed something?
Its rare to see rev nowdays btw let it be pve or pvp.

sword #2 guarantees 3 projectiles whitch is a big dps gain, even with the sword #1 nerf

That would be the case if the projectiles didn’t have a mind of their own and decide to fly off and hit everything in the radius of the skill.

DeoDose.4237:

sword #2 guarantees 3 projectiles whitch is a big dps gain, even with the sword #1 nerf

Sword 2 is at best a minor DPS gain because of the cast time and aftercast, and only if there’s literally nothing else around, which is hardly ever the case (on top of the skill targeting foliage and hidden structures outside of the map), which means a majority of the time you actually lose damage compared to Sword auto but also have to pay Energy to use it.

It’s an awful skill and the decision to ‘buff’ its damage was questionable at best. They nerfed Sword damage altogether (despite saying they want to move the damage from Sword 1 to 2 and 3). Sword 1 got a nerf of 10-20% depending on the skill in the chain, Sword 3 got a damage nerf of 23% (5/7 of the original hits with every hit now doing 10% more damage to ‘compensate’) and Sword 2 is now slightly better damage than Sword 1 if all projectiles hit.

Yeah, nah.

Sourde Noire.5286:

DeoDose.4237:

sword #2 guarantees 3 projectiles whitch is a big dps gain, even with the sword #1 nerf

Sword 2 is at best a minor DPS gain because of the cast time and aftercast, and only if there’s literally nothing else around, which is hardly ever the case (on top of the skill targeting foliage and hidden structures outside of the map), which means a majority of the time you actually lose damage compared to Sword auto but also have to pay Energy to use it.

It’s an awful skill and the decision to ‘buff’ its damage was questionable at best. They nerfed Sword damage altogether (despite saying they want to move the damage from Sword 1 to 2 and 3). Sword 1 got a nerf of 10-20% depending on the skill in the chain, Sword 3 got a damage nerf of 23% (5/7 of the original hits with every hit now doing 10% more damage to ‘compensate’) and Sword 2 is now slightly better damage than Sword 1 if all projectiles hit.

Yeah, nah.

Don’t waste your time, these players saying sword #2 was a buff and rev was about hitting facets and AA are just PvE’rs and trolls.

Fade to Black.7042:

Sourde Noire.5286:

DeoDose.4237:

sword #2 guarantees 3 projectiles whitch is a big dps gain, even with the sword #1 nerf

Sword 2 is at best a minor DPS gain because of the cast time and aftercast, and only if there’s literally nothing else around, which is hardly ever the case (on top of the skill targeting foliage and hidden structures outside of the map), which means a majority of the time you actually lose damage compared to Sword auto but also have to pay Energy to use it.

It’s an awful skill and the decision to ‘buff’ its damage was questionable at best. They nerfed Sword damage altogether (despite saying they want to move the damage from Sword 1 to 2 and 3). Sword 1 got a nerf of 10-20% depending on the skill in the chain, Sword 3 got a damage nerf of 23% (5/7 of the original hits with every hit now doing 10% more damage to ‘compensate’) and Sword 2 is now slightly better damage than Sword 1 if all projectiles hit.

Yeah, nah.

Don’t waste your time, these players saying sword #2 was a buff and rev was about hitting facets and AA are just PvE’rs and trolls.

Pretty much this.

I like the new sword 2 but really; I’d prefer the orbs weren’t aoe seeking anymore and rather they always went to the target and just did their own little explosion aoe on them. If the explosion AoE is considered too much then I can just live w/o any aoe on the orbs at all.

Doggie.3184:

I like the new sword 2 but really; I’d prefer the orbs weren’t aoe seeking anymore and rather they always went to the target and just did their own little explosion aoe on them. If the explosion AoE is considered too much then I can just live w/o any aoe on the orbs at all.

Really I’d just like one attack, not 3 separate strikes. Maybe turn it into a leap, that’d give an indirect buff to sword/sword as well since you could combo 2 then use five to pull them away. The way the attack works goes completely against its description, especially now.

sword is only a nice add up, which is nice dps that track people in stealth..so thief would get hit big damage by surprise

TheLastNobody.8319:

Doggie.3184:

I like the new sword 2 but really; I’d prefer the orbs weren’t aoe seeking anymore and rather they always went to the target and just did their own little explosion aoe on them. If the explosion AoE is considered too much then I can just live w/o any aoe on the orbs at all.

Really I’d just like one attack, not 3 separate strikes. Maybe turn it into a leap, that’d give an indirect buff to sword/sword as well since you could combo 2 then use five to pull them away. The way the attack works goes completely against its description, especially now.

I almost forgot off hand sword existed. Or does it?

Doggie.3184:

TheLastNobody.8319:

Doggie.3184:

I like the new sword 2 but really; I’d prefer the orbs weren’t aoe seeking anymore and rather they always went to the target and just did their own little explosion aoe on them. If the explosion AoE is considered too much then I can just live w/o any aoe on the orbs at all.

Really I’d just like one attack, not 3 separate strikes. Maybe turn it into a leap, that’d give an indirect buff to sword/sword as well since you could combo 2 then use five to pull them away. The way the attack works goes completely against its description, especially now.

I almost forgot off hand sword existed. Or does it?

It does and is better than shield in current state. If we nerf Shiro and Glint some more, Ventari and Jalis will start to look interesing too!