Guild Wars 2

So I was just thinking today about Roy’s comment about Rev’s being weak to conditions outside of Mallyx which I previously really had no issue with until I came to this particular understanding of how Conditions work vs. Power based attacks.

The understanding I came to is that the only real way to overcome a build focusing on Conditions is to remove them which varies greatly from the MANY ways to deal with Power based attacks/builds. Allow me to explain. If you are fighting a Power based opponent and that happens to be your counter (not even sure if any particular class/build is even countered by such a thing due to the mechanics I’m about to list) there are a multitude of ways in which to avoid taking that damage and skillfully defeat said opponent. The biggest and most obvious of mechanics is to dodge. Any experienced player can quickly recognize when a particular class is going to use his biggest attack and dodge it negating 100% of the damage. Should you be out of endurance you could always turn to the plethora of skills that evade or provide blind, aegis, protection, etc. depending on your class. Now some people will argue that you can also use these mechanics to avoid Condition applying abilities ,but when you think about it can you really?

In my experience with Condi builds it doesn’t seem as if they are really hindered with long cooldowns or spiky application of Conditions like Power based builds are. You could pop UA to avoid having any Condis applied to you for its duration only to come out of the evade and be immediately riddled with Conditions. This makes using skill to deal with a Condition built opponent a complete non factor and making Condi removal the only viable way to beat said opponent. Where as vs Power based opponents you can use skill to great effect to avoid the majority of their damage and punish them.

If I am wrong please enlighten me ,but I don’t think I am. Condi application for the classes that do it well is practically unrelenting. This makes Conditions the go to source of damage for PvP and if I’m not mistaken why it’s been more prevalent in the meta for awhile now.

Everything needs a Weakspot, for Revenant that are Conditions. If there are reliable ways for a Profession to cover that Weakspot, it is no longer a Weakspot.

There one problem..anyone with access to weakness will be able to walk over revenant without any issues. On top of that poison reducing our already not so good healing.

How that class is supposed to work is beyond me at this point. Everyone and their mom will run condi rev to stand any chance in pvp. Is is what you guys want..like really?

We are quite short on stunbreaks outside of Shiro, our access to the olny “decent” and delayed by 3 second source of stab been nerfed into ground and the olny thing we have going for is stab on dodge – so basically dodge to keep up stab against cc classes with little tell to their cc if youre not in Shiro.

Weak to cc, weak to condi. The future of power rev looks promising kappa

Yes we are weak to conditions for sure. But remember with glints heal those conditions will heal us.

Once they stack up as well jails heal will remove all conditions and heal us. Legend swap if traited to breaks stun, shield 5 can make you immune to conditions to 4 seconds as well. We do have options, not as many as some other classes but it’s still something. We can also taunt as well which can be very helpful

Sylent.3165:

Yes we are weak to conditions for sure. But remember with glints heal those conditions will heal us.

Once they stack up as well jails heal will remove all conditions and heal us. Legend swap if traited to breaks stun, shield 5 can make you immune to conditions to 4 seconds as well. We do have options, not as many as some other classes but it’s still something. We can also taunt as well which can be very helpful

you know that there are conditions like chill / Weakness / poison /cripple that ruin our day even without doing lots of dps to us?

Sylent.3165:

Yes we are weak to conditions for sure. But remember with glints heal those conditions will heal us.

Once they stack up as well jails heal will remove all conditions and heal us. Legend swap if traited to breaks stun, shield 5 can make you immune to conditions to 4 seconds as well. We do have options, not as many as some other classes but it’s still something. We can also taunt as well which can be very helpful

Nice stuff on a paper. And how did it worked for you last beta? I know that i melded to any condi build and while playing condi myself i wrecked any power rev i faced without any issue. Some tried to run Mallyx with resistance to stand a chance but i stripped it right away..

Also shield 5 doesnt not make revenant immune to conditions as they continue to tick, youre also being rooted in place being unable to do anything other than waiting to get cc’ed. When you swap legend you lose your “legendary 10sec stunbreak” and there is nothing easier than cc rev right after he swapped to Mallyx/Ventari/Jalis.

Also lol at taunt..You wanted to say that people can use your taunt against you by using reflect right? As above – weakness, poison, chill, cripple, a well timed immo when youre not in Shiro is all the stuff someone needs to destroy us in a blink of eye.

Warriors were supposed to be weak to condi too and we all know how it ended where war been considered number one in trash tier before cleansing ire. Anything with condi walked over him. That will happen with revenant as well espesially now that conditions been buffed (looking at burn).

there are always condi clear sigils XD 3 condi clear on jalis, heal per condi on mallyx optional condi clear on leg swap.

We will manage and if it’s bad I am sure they will look into it.

I personally would rather have more stunbreaks then condi clears.

Maybe I’m the odd ball out, but what happened to teamwork and coordination with ally’s. It seams to me most of the threads regarding this are based as a solo 1v1 perspective. Being weak to Condi just makes me want to grab a friend or 4 that can assist me in that area. I thought the purpose of a MMORPG is to play with other people?

and don’t forget Ventari 9, that removes 3 Conditions + 2 Conditions removed with Staff.

BlazeQ.1095:

Maybe I’m the odd ball out, but what happened to teamwork and coordination with ally’s. It seams to me most of the threads regarding this are based as a solo 1v1 perspective. Being weak to Condi just makes me want to grab a friend or 4 that can assist me in that area. I thought the purpose of a MMORPG is to play with other people?

This. I mean, honestly, revenant is on pretty equal standing with most classes (ele, guardian, and necro being outliers) in terms of condi clear, and there are certainly weaker.

That’s ignoring the corruption line and Mallyx. Demonic Defiance traited revenants really just hard-counter conditions. Yes, they can be counter-countered themselves pretty well by signet necros and other revenants (revenant OP against revenant?) but that just makes for some really interesting back-and-forth. If the enemy doesn’t have access to frequent boon strips, you pretty much shut them down completely.

The generic condition spike cooldown arguments?

Condi’s don’t need to land burst skills:
Just take a look at necro scepter, grasping dead hits for close to three times more for damage then it’s auto and dagger offhand #5 4 times more. No spike, they say.
Warrior sword: flurry hits for 3 times more then auto , riposte 4 times more 1.
Condi ranger: doesn’t even have a 100% condition auto attack.

Condi’s have lower cooldowns:
fastest no auto condi applier : shrapnel grenade 5 sec cooldown.
fastest no auto damage dealer: ligthning strike or mighty blow 5 sec cooldown.

Does Revenants Renewing Wave removes conditions from himself?

BlazeQ.1095:

Maybe I’m the odd ball out, but what happened to teamwork and coordination with ally’s. It seams to me most of the threads regarding this are based as a solo 1v1 perspective. Being weak to Condi just makes me want to grab a friend or 4 that can assist me in that area. I thought the purpose of a MMORPG is to play with other people?

Maybe im too young, but when a class cant carry his own in many cases it tend to end up in trash bin. When we look at “meta” all of these builds can do well both 1v1 and teamfights. The support they provide makes them olny stronger due to synergy.

What does power revenant provides which no other class can do? So far the olny thing he provides is “babysit me please”

Bunker? Ele or guardian
Roaming? Thief, ele and mes. All of em will eat power rev alive
Support? Again ele, guardian, warrior (falled out of meta for a good reason)

Ranger is a good 1v1 class, but what does he provide to team? Absolutely nothing. He cant even cap point properly.
So ill ask again. Why i should pick useless rev that cant stand on his own over ele, thief, mes, guard or even necro that will do just fine whenever its 1v1 or teamfight?

And lol and ventari and his tablet..like please..ventari in a dps build. As some salad liked to say “this wont end well”.

NapTooN.6283:

Everything needs a Weakspot, for Revenant that are Conditions. If there are reliable ways for a Profession to cover that Weakspot, it is no longer a Weakspot.

This is the logic I used to justify Warrior’s weakness to conditions at launch. Then they apparently decided that a high HP pool and heavy armor weren’t enough so they gave them access to some of the best condition removal traits and skills in the game.

/shrug

This thread isn’t quite going in the direction I had hoped. I did not make this thread to talk about Rev’s supposed weakness to Conditions (there are plenty of threads about that) ,but to talk about the general balance between Condition builds and Power builds and how there is little room for skill in overcoming Condition built opponents.

DoT based builds are generally pretty OP in most MMO’s. They share a similar trait to Pet builds such as BM Hunter in WoW. This trait is a little something called Fire and Forget. DoTs just like Pets can be put on or assigned to a particular target and once that is done you can now play the run around and avoid death while your damage that requires no further input from you kills your target. People using Power based builds do not have this luxury. They are forced to constantly sacrifice active defense (with the exception of evade skills such as UA or Staff 5) in order to partake in active offense which can be completely negated by a dodge.

So the real question here is what can be done about this apparent imbalance between the two build types? If nothing changes (and it most likely won’t) what tools do Rev’s currently have that can help them deal with this Fire and Forget playstyle (specifics please)?

Griffith.7238:

This trait is a little something called Fire and Forget. DoTs just like Pets can be put on or assigned to a particular target and once that is done you can now play the run around and avoid death while your damage that requires no further input from you kills your target. People using Power based builds do not have this luxury. They are forced to constantly sacrifice active defense (with the exception of evade skills such as UA or Staff 5) in order to partake in active offense which can be completely negated by a dodge.

If there is anything fire and forget it is power. You just hit a foe and the damage is done, no buts no iffs. When you apply conditions you have to make sure they keep ticking and are not cleansed by a foe. The ticks you see are remnannts from previous hits, if you were fighting a power build you would be already dead.

Also power builds actually do use plenty of active defense just take to the utilities of a d/p thief or a gs/hammer warrior.

Tim.6450:

Griffith.7238:

This trait is a little something called Fire and Forget. DoTs just like Pets can be put on or assigned to a particular target and once that is done you can now play the run around and avoid death while your damage that requires no further input from you kills your target. People using Power based builds do not have this luxury. They are forced to constantly sacrifice active defense (with the exception of evade skills such as UA or Staff 5) in order to partake in active offense which can be completely negated by a dodge.

If there is anything fire and forget it is power. You just hit a foe and the damage is done, no buts no iffs. When you apply conditions you have to make sure they keep ticking and are not cleansed by a foe. The ticks you see are remnannts from previous hits, if you were fighting a power build you would be already dead.

Also power builds actually do use plenty of active defense just take to the utilities of a d/p thief or a gs/hammer warrior.

It’s extremely easy to avoid Power based damage. Lets talk about the Thief since you mentioned it. You want to talk about fire and forget yet the Thief is the exact opposite. If a Thief does not time their ability usage perfectly they will find themselves having used all their initiative with little to no result. Where as your average Condi build can just auto to apply tons of Condis or use very low cd abilities.

I will give you Aegis because some of it is applied passively ,but Blinds are very much active defense. You need to actively use a skill to apply that Blind you don’t just Blind your targets by just standing there.

Griffith.7238:

This thread isn’t quite going in the direction I had hoped. I did not make this thread to talk about Rev’s supposed weakness to Conditions (there are plenty of threads about that) ,but to talk about the general balance between Condition builds and Power builds and how there is little room for skill in overcoming Condition built opponents.

DoT based builds are generally pretty OP in most MMO’s. They share a similar trait to Pet builds such as BM Hunter in WoW. This trait is a little something called Fire and Forget. DoTs just like Pets can be put on or assigned to a particular target and once that is done you can now play the run around and avoid death while your damage that requires no further input from you kills your target. People using Power based builds do not have this luxury. They are forced to constantly sacrifice active defense (with the exception of evade skills such as UA or Staff 5) in order to partake in active offense which can be completely negated by a dodge.

So the real question here is what can be done about this apparent imbalance between the two build types? If nothing changes (and it most likely won’t) what tools do Rev’s currently have that can help them deal with this Fire and Forget playstyle (specifics please)?

I already gave you specifics against Conditions outisde of Mallyx. Ventari and Staff. If you don’t want to take Tools against Conditions, don’t complain later that you don’t have Tools against Conditions. If those Tools don’t fit your DPS Build, bad luck, you have to sacrifice Condition Protection then, you can’t have everything.

The Advantage of Power over Condition is simple. Sure Conditions are Fire and Forget if not taken care of but Power kills way faster than Conditions.

NapTooN.6283:

you can’t have everything.

Tell that to dd eles ( 4 ele team just won ESL carried hard by a thief lol ) and all other classes that can slot pick up mobility, condi removal, decent damage and cc. For some weird reason they can have “everything” but rev is not allowed to be on par with them? Thats something i dont understand at all. Care to explain why?

NapTooN.6283:

The Advantage of Power over Condition is simple. Sure Conditions are Fire and Forget if not taken care of but Power kills way faster than Conditions.

Burning disagrees with you. Also its not even about damaging conditions as all ppl need to shut down revenant is weakness and immo. Those 2 condi are enough. One to turn rev into a walking joke doing glacial hits all day long and immo outside of Shiro to have a sitting duck waiting to be eat hundred blades and die like a noob. Those are not issues either?

I would also like to see how you will perform in 1v1 against burn guard and burn war btw.

From what i understand then.. if condi is a weakness of power rev, then he should be able to faceroll every other power build ingame without any issues, is that right? He cannot be weak to power builds as the olny “weakness” are conditions. Which means buffing and buffing till i be able to hardcounter all power builds. If i spec for condi i should hardcounter any condi build?

skowcia.8257:

NapTooN.6283:

you can’t have everything.

Tell that to dd eles ( 4 ele team just won ESL carried hard by a thief lol ) and all other classes that can slot pick up mobility, condi removal, decent damage and cc. For some weird reason they can have “everything” but rev is not allowed to be on par with them? Thats something i dont understand at all. Care to explain why?

Just because one Profession is overpowered, does not mean every other Profession has to be aswell. Go the other way, bring Eles on par with the other 8 Professions.

NapTooN.6283:

The Advantage of Power over Condition is simple. Sure Conditions are Fire and Forget if not taken care of but Power kills way faster than Conditions.

Burning disagrees with you. Also its not even about damaging conditions as all ppl need to shut down revenant is weakness and immo. Those 2 condi are enough. One to turn rev into a walking joke doing glacial hits all day long and immo outside of Shiro to have a sitting duck waiting to be eat hundred blades and die like a noob. Those are not issues either?

I would also like to see how you will perform in 1v1 against burn guard and burn war btw.

If you don’t want to be a sitting duck against Weakness and Burning, take Mallyx for the Resistance, Ventari for the clunky Condition Removal or Jalis for the Heal. If you don’t want to take Mallyx. stop complaining that you are a sitting duck against Conditions. Mallyx is only 25% of your Total Skills (the other 75% are the two Weapons and the other Legend). If you are not willing to commit 25% of your Skills to Condition Protection, please for the love of Roy, don’t complain that you are shut down by them. Other Profession have to take Condition Removal aswell if they want to take care of Conditions.

One class?

Warrior can bring cc, mob, damage and condi cleanse in one build

Ranger can do the same

Guardian while doesnt have a lot of mobility nor cc they make up for it by being quite resistant for some period of time

Necro doesnt have mobility has tons of cc, espesially chill and cripples to keep someone in (guess who cant run away?)

Mesmer can bring condi cleanse on shatter if they willing to do so but its not needef for them as they have milion ways to avoid damage while poking from range

Thief is not bad when it comes to condition removal either and will get even more – by dodging on 1cd. Lets pair that with sword 2 that also removes one..and will be a meta soon thx to daredevil.

Engi with trait revamp got some serious condi removal as well

And ele..nuff said

All of them can configurate their builds to make condi removal work with power build without any problems. Now where is the condition removal tree for revenant? Cause i cant find it somehow?

Mallyx also;

-is a stricle condition legend, which makes him useless in power builds
-does not remove conditions, olny applies short strippable resistance
-require not olny full set of utilities, but also traitline
-you also lose stunbreaks which in the makes makes you even weaker and useless

Revenant is already weak to cc, isnt that enough?
Ugh..new players..i wont bother anymore

Have we learned nothing from warriors and cleansing ire? Being weak to conditions means being weak full stop.

Griffith.7238:

It’s extremely easy to avoid Power based damage.

You may try to avoid a frash air ele’s electric distarge/strike, it’s all instant.

Where as your average Condi build can just auto to apply tons of Condis or use very low cd abilities.

Oh no, it’s a scepter necro with an auto attack of 6 second bleed that’s like a whole 716 damage damage per hit. But fear even more it also has poison which does 523 damage the horror. But don’t forget the increible low cooldown skill grasping dead with a cooldown of 10 seconds or the other low cooldown skill enfeebling blood with a cooldown of 25 seconds. /sarcasm

Now to be serious, there are very few condition builds that does it main damage from auto attacks. Most of them get their damage via cooldown skills. See my first post about the lower cooldown skills in terms of damage and condition spike damage.

skowcia.8257:

One class?

Warrior can bring cc, mob, damage and condi cleanse in one build

CC, Mobility, Damage = Shiro /Sword/X
Condi Cleanse = Ventari/Jalis + Staff

as you can see, Revenant can bring that in one build aswell. The difference is, YOU don’t want to build that way.

Ranger can do the same

lol, 99% of the year Ranger is considered bad and useless until someone comes and needs an Argument for a Revenant Thread

Guardian while doesnt have a lot of mobility nor cc they make up for it by being quite resistant for some period of time

Necro doesnt have mobility has tons of cc, espesially chill and cripples to keep someone in (guess who cant run away?)

Mesmer can bring condi cleanse on shatter if they willing to do so but its not needef for them as they have milion ways to avoid damage while poking from range

Thief is not bad when it comes to condition removal either and will get even more – by dodging on 1cd. Lets pair that with sword 2 that also removes one..and will be a meta soon thx to daredevil.

Engi with trait revamp got some serious condi removal as well

And ele..nuff said

All of them can configurate their builds to make condi removal work with power build without any problems. Now where is the condition removal tree for revenant? Cause i cant find it somehow?

as I said 500 times already, Jalis/Ventari/Staff/Salvation all have Condition Removal, if you don’t want to take them, stop complaining, the Tools are there.

Mallyx also;

-is a stricle condition legend, which makes him useless in power builds
-does not remove conditions, olny applies short strippable resistance
-require not olny full set of utilities, but also traitline
-you also lose stunbreaks which in the makes makes you even weaker and useless

Revenant is already weak to cc, isnt that enough?
Ugh..new players..i wont bother anymore

Ugh.. stubborn Players..want everything in their favorite build without making compromises

I think everyone is looking at this from the wrong perspective. I have no problem with the Rev having weaknesses ,but when you think about the current classes and meta game there is a lot of cause for concern. I believe as a Rev we already have a “decent” amount of Condi cleanse ,but it pales in comparison to what most of the other classes get. This is a HUGE cause for concern because Conditions are very strong in the current PvP Meta. So allow me to spell this out for you all. What that means is that if classes like Ele, Guard, Warrior have such amazing Condi cleanse yet Condi builds are still incredibly strong then said Condi cleanse only serves to put them on even standing with the meta and anything less then what they offer will be completely destroyed. I very well plan to run Staff and I’d rather not always have to use Mallyx there are other Legend combos I would like to try. With that said if the classes mentioned above can still die to a Condi build with that insane amount of cleanse what do you expect to happen to the Revenant? We would have to setup our entire builds around Condi cleanse which would severely nerf Rev build diversity/viability.

I’m still anxious to see how the class performs with its recent buffs in the next BWE. It may not need more Condi cleanse ,but I’d really rather not have a particular Legend (Mallyx) be an absolute must for PvP. Most other classes are limited to 1-2 Meta builds so it wouldn’t be unfair if it was a choice that had to be made ,but I’d just prefer it not to be (and with the amount of Condi cleanse on most other classes it most definitely will be if we want to compete).

with berserker being sustained burst, and mesmer, theif and ele having huge burst capabilities, I don’t see much place for conditions, that are the slowest kind of sustained damege, UNLESS a specific boss gimmick requires it.

Griffith.7238:

I think everyone is looking at this from the wrong perspective. I have no problem with the Rev having weaknesses ,but when you think about the current classes and meta game there is a lot of cause for concern. I believe as a Rev we already have a “decent” amount of Condi cleanse ,but it pales in comparison to what most of the other classes get. This is a HUGE cause for concern because Conditions are very strong in the current PvP Meta. So allow me to spell this out for you all. What that means is that if classes like Ele, Guard, Warrior have such amazing Condi cleanse yet Condi builds are still incredibly strong then said Condi cleanse only serves to put them on even standing with the meta and anything less then what they offer will be completely destroyed. I very well plan to run Staff and I’d rather not always have to use Mallyx there are other Legend combos I would like to try. With that said if the classes mentioned above can still die to a Condi build with that insane amount of cleanse what do you expect to happen to the Revenant? We would have to setup our entire builds around Condi cleanse which would severely nerf Rev build diversity/viability.

I’m still anxious to see how the class performs with its recent buffs in the next BWE. It may not need more Condi cleanse ,but I’d really rather not have a particular Legend (Mallyx) be an absolute must for PvP. Most other classes are limited to 1-2 Meta builds so it wouldn’t be unfair if it was a choice that had to be made ,but I’d just prefer it not to be (and with the amount of Condi cleanse on most other classes it most definitely will be if we want to compete).

How is taking a few Utility Skills and Traits for Condi Removal less of a must for a Condi PvP Meta than taking a certain Legend?

A Legend makes 50% of Revenants Utility Skills. If we leave out Elites, that translates to 2 Utilities or 1 Utility + Heal with Condi Cleanse on other Professions to reach the 50%. They are in the same boat as we are, they just have more interchangeable choices.

But that is the Price you pay if you select the Revenant. If you want Support/Condi Removal, better take Ventari and not expect your DPS Legend to remove Conditions from you. That is the same like a Thief asking for Venoms to remove Conditions. Venoms are not made for Condition Removal, neither is Shiro, you people should get your head around that fact.

Quick look at my ranger…war..and guard. All of them are dps.

War;
Cleansing ire – remove condi based on adrenaline when it connect (up to 3)
Brawler recovery – remove condi on wep swap, 5cd
Berserker stance to prevent condi application for 8sec, 60cd
6sec resistance form healing signet on bombs

Both doesnt need any utility skill, its all build in class mechanic.

Guard

Virtue of resolve – 3 condi removed when trained, 43cd. Can be reset with rew focus
Smite condition trait – remove 1 condi on healing skill
Ray of judgment – remove 1 condi on 20cd when it connect
Smite condition utility – remove 1 condi doing extra damage, 16cd
Contemplation – all condi are converted into boons, 46cd

Ranger;

Survival skills remove 2 condi per use. Needs utility skills to do so
Bear f2 (class mechanic and terrible pet) removes 2 condi on 20cd
Signet of renewal cures 1 condi every 10sec, active transfer all of them to pet.
Empathic bond – 3 condi every 10sec are transfered to pet. Full passive class mechanic.

Tbh when i play ranger i dont need anything else than bond, i also use signet for a condi wipe in O.o moments. Thats due to his advantage in range and kiting potential.

All of them got enough condi cleanse..Not too much (maybe except war due to basically unlimited amount of adren in fight) and not too low. Revenant should get some as well with one oh kitten button like rest of them.

The argument behind dps is the most stupid thing ive ever heard on this forums..
Play ventari, try to condi cleanse on yourself by standing next to tablet and wasting time waiting for animation when youre a glass that can go pooof in one hit. Or play ya know..condi legend designed for condi builds..hahah. Rookies rookies..

I used to main a DPS Ranger, and the only condi cleanse I had was Healing Spring, and a lot of times, I would use Troll Unguent instead.

Condi’s where my weakness, but I did fine without it. This is of course before the Trait redo.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

I used to main a DPS Ranger, and the only condi cleanse I had was Healing Spring, and a lot of times, I would use Troll Unguent instead.

Condi’s where my weakness, but I did fine without it. This is of course before the Trait redo.

Before patch i been running 6/6/2/0/0. Had no problems with condi unless someone jumped out of nowhere on me. Most of the time i was forced to kite some sneaky engis as few pistol hits could melt me.

The difference between rev and ranger is that you stay away and pewpew ppl all day long from all that aoe crap. as rev you goes into melee. A melee should actually have tools needed to survive that stuff otherwise he wont work.

People should learn from warrior already as everyone knows what crap he was before they added condi cleanse but actually you gotta be a vet to understand it. Fresh player will never get it..

NapTooN.6283:

Griffith.7238:

I think everyone is looking at this from the wrong perspective. I have no problem with the Rev having weaknesses ,but when you think about the current classes and meta game there is a lot of cause for concern. I believe as a Rev we already have a “decent” amount of Condi cleanse ,but it pales in comparison to what most of the other classes get. This is a HUGE cause for concern because Conditions are very strong in the current PvP Meta. So allow me to spell this out for you all. What that means is that if classes like Ele, Guard, Warrior have such amazing Condi cleanse yet Condi builds are still incredibly strong then said Condi cleanse only serves to put them on even standing with the meta and anything less then what they offer will be completely destroyed. I very well plan to run Staff and I’d rather not always have to use Mallyx there are other Legend combos I would like to try. With that said if the classes mentioned above can still die to a Condi build with that insane amount of cleanse what do you expect to happen to the Revenant? We would have to setup our entire builds around Condi cleanse which would severely nerf Rev build diversity/viability.

I’m still anxious to see how the class performs with its recent buffs in the next BWE. It may not need more Condi cleanse ,but I’d really rather not have a particular Legend (Mallyx) be an absolute must for PvP. Most other classes are limited to 1-2 Meta builds so it wouldn’t be unfair if it was a choice that had to be made ,but I’d just prefer it not to be (and with the amount of Condi cleanse on most other classes it most definitely will be if we want to compete).

How is taking a few Utility Skills and Traits for Condi Removal less of a must for a Condi PvP Meta than taking a certain Legend?

A Legend makes 50% of Revenants Utility Skills. If we leave out Elites, that translates to 2 Utilities or 1 Utility + Heal with Condi Cleanse on other Professions to reach the 50%. They are in the same boat as we are, they just have more interchangeable choices.

But that is the Price you pay if you select the Revenant. If you want Support/Condi Removal, better take Ventari and not expect your DPS Legend to remove Conditions from you. That is the same like a Thief asking for Venoms to remove Conditions. Venoms are not made for Condition Removal, neither is Shiro, you people should get your head around that fact.

Ok guess you didn’t read my whole post ,but it doesn’t surprise me. Allow me to repeat what you clearly missed. “Most other classes are limited to 1-2 Meta builds so it -wouldn’t be unfair if it was a choice that had to be made ,but I’d just prefer it not to be.” I am very aware that it’s not any different from other classes that are pigeon holed into specific Utility selections to remain viable. Just in their case they have a little more custom-ability with their Utilities as they don’t have to pick them in sets. I also understand this is the trade-off presented to the Rev. More active Utilities for less customization in said Utilities.

Next time read my whole post before assuming MY stance on something and stop putting words in my mouth you clearly have no clue what I’m trying to say.

skowcia.8257:

Quick look at my ranger…war..and guard. All of them are dps.

War;
Cleansing ire – remove condi based on adrenaline when it connect (up to 3)
Brawler recovery – remove condi on wep swap, 5cd
Berserker stance to prevent condi application for 8sec, 60cd
6sec resistance form healing signet on bombs

Both doesnt need any utility skill, its all build in class mechanic.

Guard

Virtue of resolve – 3 condi removed when trained, 43cd. Can be reset with rew focus
Smite condition trait – remove 1 condi on healing skill
Ray of judgment – remove 1 condi on 20cd when it connect
Smite condition utility – remove 1 condi doing extra damage, 16cd
Contemplation – all condi are converted into boons, 46cd

Ranger;

Survival skills remove 2 condi per use. Needs utility skills to do so
Bear f2 (class mechanic and terrible pet) removes 2 condi on 20cd
Signet of renewal cures 1 condi every 10sec, active transfer all of them to pet.
Empathic bond – 3 condi every 10sec are transfered to pet. Full passive class mechanic.

Tbh when i play ranger i dont need anything else than bond, i also use signet for a condi wipe in O.o moments. Thats due to his advantage in range and kiting potential.

All of them got enough condi cleanse..Not too much (maybe except war due to basically unlimited amount of adren in fight) and not too low. Revenant should get some as well with one oh kitten button like rest of them.

The argument behind dps is the most stupid thing ive ever heard on this forums..
Play ventari, try to condi cleanse on yourself by standing next to tablet and wasting time waiting for animation when youre a glass that can go pooof in one hit. Or play ya know..condi legend designed for condi builds..hahah. Rookies rookies..

Quick look at the Revenant:

• Renewing Wave: Removes 2 Conditions on a 15s CD 15E
• Riposting Shadows: Removes Immobilize, Cripple and Chill on a 0s CD 30E
• Soothing Stone: Removes 3 Conditions on a 30s CD 5E
• Purifying Essence: Removes 3 Conditions on a 0s CD 35E
• Eluding Nullification: Removes 1 Condition on a 10s CD
• Cleansing Channel: Removes 1 Condition on a 0s CD (Legend Swap has a 10s CD)

So let’s see, i guess a Revenant DPS Build is Shiro/X + Sword/X + X + Devastation + Invocation + X, right?

Since the X are variable and not relevant for a DPS Build, because there are no other DPS Legends/Trait Lines, we can fill them as follows:

• Shiro (Riposting Shadows) /Jalis (Soothing Stone) or Ventari (Purifying Essence)
• Sword/X + Staff (Renewing Wave)
• Devastation + Invocation (Cleansing Channel) + Salvation (Eluding Nullification)

and now tell me how you have not enough Condition Removal in your DPS Build. Calling others Rookies because you are not able to think for yourself is such a classic behaviour.

Griffith.7238:

NapTooN.6283:

Griffith.7238:

I think everyone is looking at this from the wrong perspective. I have no problem with the Rev having weaknesses ,but when you think about the current classes and meta game there is a lot of cause for concern. I believe as a Rev we already have a “decent” amount of Condi cleanse ,but it pales in comparison to what most of the other classes get. This is a HUGE cause for concern because Conditions are very strong in the current PvP Meta. So allow me to spell this out for you all. What that means is that if classes like Ele, Guard, Warrior have such amazing Condi cleanse yet Condi builds are still incredibly strong then said Condi cleanse only serves to put them on even standing with the meta and anything less then what they offer will be completely destroyed. I very well plan to run Staff and I’d rather not always have to use Mallyx there are other Legend combos I would like to try. With that said if the classes mentioned above can still die to a Condi build with that insane amount of cleanse what do you expect to happen to the Revenant? We would have to setup our entire builds around Condi cleanse which would severely nerf Rev build diversity/viability.

I’m still anxious to see how the class performs with its recent buffs in the next BWE. It may not need more Condi cleanse ,but I’d really rather not have a particular Legend (Mallyx) be an absolute must for PvP. Most other classes are limited to 1-2 Meta builds so it wouldn’t be unfair if it was a choice that had to be made ,but I’d just prefer it not to be (and with the amount of Condi cleanse on most other classes it most definitely will be if we want to compete).

How is taking a few Utility Skills and Traits for Condi Removal less of a must for a Condi PvP Meta than taking a certain Legend?

A Legend makes 50% of Revenants Utility Skills. If we leave out Elites, that translates to 2 Utilities or 1 Utility + Heal with Condi Cleanse on other Professions to reach the 50%. They are in the same boat as we are, they just have more interchangeable choices.

But that is the Price you pay if you select the Revenant. If you want Support/Condi Removal, better take Ventari and not expect your DPS Legend to remove Conditions from you. That is the same like a Thief asking for Venoms to remove Conditions. Venoms are not made for Condition Removal, neither is Shiro, you people should get your head around that fact.

Ok guess you didn’t read my whole post ,but it doesn’t surprise me. Allow me to repeat what you clearly missed. “Most other classes are limited to 1-2 Meta builds so it -wouldn’t be unfair if it was a choice that had to be made ,but I’d just prefer it not to be.” I am very aware that it’s not any different from other classes that are pigeon holed into specific Utility selections to remain viable. Just in their case they have a little more custom-ability with their Utilities as they don’t have to pick them in sets. I also understand this is the trade-off presented to the Rev. More active Utilities for less customization in said Utilities.

Next time read my whole post before assuming MY stance on something and stop putting words in my mouth you clearly have no clue what I’m trying to say.

That is exactly what i said minus the Meta Build Part, so what was i assuming again? I am not mocking you, i am just asking.

NapTooN.6283:

skowcia.8257:

Quick look at my ranger…war..and guard. All of them are dps.

War;
Cleansing ire – remove condi based on adrenaline when it connect (up to 3)
Brawler recovery – remove condi on wep swap, 5cd
Berserker stance to prevent condi application for 8sec, 60cd
6sec resistance form healing signet on bombs

Both doesnt need any utility skill, its all build in class mechanic.

Guard

Virtue of resolve – 3 condi removed when trained, 43cd. Can be reset with rew focus
Smite condition trait – remove 1 condi on healing skill
Ray of judgment – remove 1 condi on 20cd when it connect
Smite condition utility – remove 1 condi doing extra damage, 16cd
Contemplation – all condi are converted into boons, 46cd

Ranger;

Survival skills remove 2 condi per use. Needs utility skills to do so
Bear f2 (class mechanic and terrible pet) removes 2 condi on 20cd
Signet of renewal cures 1 condi every 10sec, active transfer all of them to pet.
Empathic bond – 3 condi every 10sec are transfered to pet. Full passive class mechanic.

Tbh when i play ranger i dont need anything else than bond, i also use signet for a condi wipe in O.o moments. Thats due to his advantage in range and kiting potential.

All of them got enough condi cleanse..Not too much (maybe except war due to basically unlimited amount of adren in fight) and not too low. Revenant should get some as well with one oh kitten button like rest of them.

The argument behind dps is the most stupid thing ive ever heard on this forums..
Play ventari, try to condi cleanse on yourself by standing next to tablet and wasting time waiting for animation when youre a glass that can go pooof in one hit. Or play ya know..condi legend designed for condi builds..hahah. Rookies rookies..

Quick look at the Revenant:

• Renewing Wave: Removes 2 Conditions on a 15s CD 15E
• Riposting Shadows: Removes Immobilize, Cripple and Chill on a 0s CD 30E
• Soothing Stone: Removes 3 Conditions on a 30s CD 5E
• Purifying Essence: Removes 3 Conditions on a 0s CD 35E
• Eluding Nullification: Removes 1 Condition on a 10s CD
• Cleansing Channel: Removes 1 Condition on a 0s CD (Legend Swap has a 10s CD)

So let’s see, i guess a Revenant DPS Build is Shiro/X + Sword/X + X + Devastation + Invocation + X, right?

Since the X are variable and not relevant for a DPS Build, because there are no other DPS Legends/Trait Lines, we can fill them as follows:

• Shiro (Riposting Shadows) /Jalis (Soothing Stone) or Ventari (Purifying Essence)
• Sword/X + Staff (Renewing Wave)
• Devastation + Invocation (Cleansing Channel) + Salvation (Eluding Nullification)

and now tell me how you have not enough Condition Removal in your DPS Build. Calling others Rookies because you are not able to think for yourself is such a classic behaviour.

So in short, while all classes i mentioned get these perks in one build while going zerk (with exception of survival on ranger) you asking me to run for a tiny bit of condi cleanse;

1.Jalis/Shiro for soft cc
2.Ventari
3.Salvation line
4.Invocation line
5.Staff

So basically..yeah thats right. BUNKER BUILD.

Make a footage with Shiro/Ventari (running with one subpar healing skill will be fun) vs anyone half decent with condi build, prove me that it is strong. Until then im done with this worthless, clueless discussion. Bye. Beta next week, you have a chance to shine.

the fact is that with the lack of swappable utility skills, every legend should have access to condi cleanse, so I can survive conditions even on Shiro/Glint.

Kidel.2057:

the fact is that with the lack of swappable utility skills, every legend should have access to condi cleanse, so I can survive conditions even on Shiro/Glint.

You have Staff #4, CR on Dodge and CR on Legend Swap for that.

skowcia.8257:

NapTooN.6283:

skowcia.8257:

Quick look at my ranger…war..and guard. All of them are dps.

War;
Cleansing ire – remove condi based on adrenaline when it connect (up to 3)
Brawler recovery – remove condi on wep swap, 5cd
Berserker stance to prevent condi application for 8sec, 60cd
6sec resistance form healing signet on bombs

Both doesnt need any utility skill, its all build in class mechanic.

Guard

Virtue of resolve – 3 condi removed when trained, 43cd. Can be reset with rew focus
Smite condition trait – remove 1 condi on healing skill
Ray of judgment – remove 1 condi on 20cd when it connect
Smite condition utility – remove 1 condi doing extra damage, 16cd
Contemplation – all condi are converted into boons, 46cd

Ranger;

Survival skills remove 2 condi per use. Needs utility skills to do so
Bear f2 (class mechanic and terrible pet) removes 2 condi on 20cd
Signet of renewal cures 1 condi every 10sec, active transfer all of them to pet.
Empathic bond – 3 condi every 10sec are transfered to pet. Full passive class mechanic.

Tbh when i play ranger i dont need anything else than bond, i also use signet for a condi wipe in O.o moments. Thats due to his advantage in range and kiting potential.

All of them got enough condi cleanse..Not too much (maybe except war due to basically unlimited amount of adren in fight) and not too low. Revenant should get some as well with one oh kitten button like rest of them.

The argument behind dps is the most stupid thing ive ever heard on this forums..
Play ventari, try to condi cleanse on yourself by standing next to tablet and wasting time waiting for animation when youre a glass that can go pooof in one hit. Or play ya know..condi legend designed for condi builds..hahah. Rookies rookies..

Quick look at the Revenant:

• Renewing Wave: Removes 2 Conditions on a 15s CD 15E
• Riposting Shadows: Removes Immobilize, Cripple and Chill on a 0s CD 30E
• Soothing Stone: Removes 3 Conditions on a 30s CD 5E
• Purifying Essence: Removes 3 Conditions on a 0s CD 35E
• Eluding Nullification: Removes 1 Condition on a 10s CD
• Cleansing Channel: Removes 1 Condition on a 0s CD (Legend Swap has a 10s CD)

So let’s see, i guess a Revenant DPS Build is Shiro/X + Sword/X + X + Devastation + Invocation + X, right?

Since the X are variable and not relevant for a DPS Build, because there are no other DPS Legends/Trait Lines, we can fill them as follows:

• Shiro (Riposting Shadows) /Jalis (Soothing Stone) or Ventari (Purifying Essence)
• Sword/X + Staff (Renewing Wave)
• Devastation + Invocation (Cleansing Channel) + Salvation (Eluding Nullification)

and now tell me how you have not enough Condition Removal in your DPS Build. Calling others Rookies because you are not able to think for yourself is such a classic behaviour.

So in short, while all classes i mentioned get these perks in one build while going zerk (with exception of survival on ranger) you asking me to run for a tiny bit of condi cleanse;

1.Jalis/Shiro for soft cc
2.Ventari
3.Salvation line
4.Invocation line
5.Staff

So basically..yeah thats right. BUNKER BUILD.

Make a footage with Shiro/Ventari (running with one subpar healing skill will be fun) vs anyone half decent with condi build, prove me that it is strong. Until then im done with this worthless, clueless discussion. Bye. Beta next week, you have a chance to shine.

Ok ok, ignore my Post just for a moment and tell me about YOUR DPS Build. Because it sounds like you have one without Invocation and without a “free” Weapon Slot. Glint/Herald is Support, so it can not be in your Power DPS Build. Mallyx/Corruption is Condi, again not possible in your Power DPS Build. Ventari/Salvation is Support/Healing, not viable in your Power DPS Build.

Please tell me what is in your actual DPS Build that you do not have space for Staff, Invocation and Jalis or Ventari. I am not joking, i really want to know it, you make it sound like you have 0 space for Condition Removal in your Build.

NapTooN.6283:

Glint/Herald is Support, so it can not be in your Power DPS Build.

Sure, permanent 6 might and fury is not dps.

Were you even playing power based rev last BWE because condis just melted you without malix no mather what you did.

Staff #4 will cover you with more condis while casting it. It roots you, casts for an eternety and is not that good against every condibuild with coverage.

Condi remove on dodge well you have to trait salvation which is total kitten for any power build + you have to waist one dodge to remove 1 condi so….

+1 CR every 10 seconds if you keep swapping so basicly like the ranger trait that gives one condi to his pet just that it wrecks your energy managment which is somehow quite important. You can’t just “oh kitten lots of burning I swap to my legend to remove one condi” and then "wups just waisted the remaining energy I was going to use for my weapon skills so I can use the energyregain from swapping to actually use my utilitys

So based on last BWE he was VERY weak against condis and needed chances.
Roy did some chances that could help (evade on phase skills) + Glint. If that stuff you have based on chances is enough is going to be tested. I hardly doubt it but we are going to see it.

Roy said rev will lack in condiremove. The thing is on some classes this is working quite well (engi, mesmer) the problem here is though that both these classes have a lot of options to just avoid getting condis in the first place. (Mesmer with kite, stealth + invuln and engi with a lot of cc, blocks etc.)
So rev will need his own option to survive condis but since he is pretty much meele (if you aren’t playing hammer) it will be even harder to give him a viable option without just patching in condi remove traits.
We saw it on warrior and how that worked out. They had to patch in A LOT to get him usefull and now he is or he was in a pretty good spot for meta play.

NapTooN.6283:

/

Pretty much a build i played but with staff instead as swords were broken. That still didnt saved me from any condi build that could wreck me without really any ability to counterplay.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQNAscinvNWNS6JrJRVl/ksrygSYW5QJYscrklNFhd851qxy9rNQiHA

Alternative is to drop invocation all together and go Glint if Jalis will suck too hard. If i slot staff i will have to lose either ranged option called hammer (which can at least prevent projectile condi application for some 6sec) or dps from sword. For 2 condi cleanse on (lol) selfroot 1sec castmove.

1 condi every 10sec from legend swap is nothing really and it mess up my playstyle as i actually tend to camp one legend unless i had swap for heal or bursted someone and drained all my energy by doing so.

And Jalis heal cant be really considered as as condi cleanse cus..its our healing skill. I wont use it at full hp if i get weakness or something. Its just a bonus, nothing else.

I would go salvation, i really would do it. But not in current state, too many useless traits for dps for what in fact? 1 condi removed on a dodge with 10cd? Also salvation is a support line, where condi cleanse etc belongs is our sustain line – retribution. It is no different than war defense line or survival line for ranger.

They could just get rid of steadfast and place some condi cleanse there as right now all of these traits in gm are lackluster. Retribution line is mandatory as revenant is weak to cc. There is simply no way to drop stab on dodge or protection on cc with current lack of stunbreaks across the legends except Shiro.

For comprasion my war and ranger builds. Everyone knows medi so that one inst necessary.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQBNy0BdhYZIYkitteniYgIo0vY6nCLAigBAb9XYEA

“Meta” gs/x build. 2 diff sources of condi cleanse on class mechanic without losing dps. Berserker stance and resistance from hs is just a cherry on top. Soon he will get berserker to end up wth even higher condi removal.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQBNSpCNsY/KYxCctYgQo2SPAq6/Lqhcvn3VIFA

My pewpew. He doesnt need anything else really. Signet for condi bomb and 1 trait for passive cleansing (doesnt work that great tbh but it saved my … many times). But as i said you pewpew from tons of tools to kite condi builds. Easymode

NapTooN.6283:

Glint/Herald is Support, so it can not be in your Power DPS Build.

Glint is actually really good for Power builds.

1. 100% Fury uptime
2. Might application
3. Low CD 20 Vuln stack burst ability
4. Heal skill with highest potential healing of all the Rev’s heal skills
5. High damage AOE Elite with knockback.
6. Blind
7. Stun Break

Glint is definitely not just Support. Can you imagine 100% crit chance with Facet of Darkness with Burst of Strength into a recently buffed UA. That’s huge damage.

skowcia.8257:

NapTooN.6283:

/

Pretty much a build i played but with staff instead as swords were broken. That still didnt saved me from any condi build that could wreck me without really any ability to counterplay.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQNAscinvNWNS6JrJRVl/ksrygSYW5QJYscrklNFhd851qxy9rNQiHA

Alternative is to drop invocation all together and go Glint if Jalis will suck too hard. If i slot staff i will have to lose either ranged option called hammer (which can at least prevent projectile condi application for some 6sec) or dps from sword. For 2 condi cleanse on (lol) selfroot 1sec castmove.

1 condi every 10sec from legend swap is nothing really and it mess up my playstyle as i actually tend to camp one legend unless i had swap for heal or bursted someone and drained all my energy by doing so.

And Jalis heal cant be really considered as as condi cleanse cus..its our healing skill. I wont use it at full hp if i get weakness or something. Its just a bonus, nothing else.

I would go salvation, i really would do it. But not in current state, too many useless traits for dps for what in fact? 1 condi removed on a dodge with 10cd? Also salvation is a support line, where condi cleanse etc belongs is our sustain line – retribution. It is no different than war defense line or survival line for ranger.

They could just get rid of steadfast and place some condi cleanse there as right now all of these traits in gm are lackluster. Retribution line is mandatory as revenant is weak to cc. There is simply no way to drop stab on dodge or protection on cc with current lack of stunbreaks across the legends except Shiro.

For comprasion my war and ranger builds. Everyone knows medi so that one inst necessary.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQBNy0BdhYZIYkitteniYgIo0vY6nCLAigBAb9XYEA

“Meta” gs/x build. 2 diff sources of condi cleanse on class mechanic without losing dps. Berserker stance and resistance from hs is just a cherry on top. Soon he will get berserker to end up wth even higher condi removal.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQBNSpCNsY/KYxCctYgQo2SPAq6/Lqhcvn3VIFA

My pewpew. He doesnt need anything else really. Signet for condi bomb and 1 trait for passive cleansing (doesnt work that great tbh but it saved my … many times). But as i said you pewpew from tons of tools to kite condi builds. Easymode

Look, if we kept it that civil in the first place, our whole Drama would never have happened. Now I understand your point much better.

Griffith.7238:

NapTooN.6283:

Glint/Herald is Support, so it can not be in your Power DPS Build.

Glint is actually really good for Power builds.

1. 100% Fury uptime
2. Might application
3. Low CD 20 Vuln stack burst ability
4. Heal skill with highest potential healing of all the Rev’s heal skills
5. High damage AOE Elite with knockback.
6. Blind
7. Stun Break

Glint is definitely not just Support. Can you imagine 100% crit chance with Facet of Darkness with Burst of Strength into a recently buffed UA. That’s huge damage.

I know, but Auras by default are considered Support :-). If we go by your example, you have Darkness on all the time for the Perma Fury. That leaves you at 3 Energy/s Regeneration. If you want to apply Might, you have to use the Trait (not that much Might from it) or activate Strength and keep it up. Now you are at 1 Energy/s Regeneration. If you use Strength on Cooldown for the Vuln, you get no Might from it.

1 Energy per second is not that much so if you are not very conservative with your weaponskills, your are faster OOE than you can look. Glint looks great on paper and i am already tinkering with possible builds but it surely has to be tested if it is the holy grail of Power Revenants :-)

Regarding Mallyx being only for condition builds…

I’m not sure that’s actually as obvious as it might appear. Yes, it’s condition-oriented, and you’re going to get less out of the condition-inflicting skills and traits if you haven’t invested in condition damage, but most of those skills strike me as the condition inflicted being an added bonus rather than the main reason you’d use those skills, particularly in PvP. If you build for power, then the 15% attribute boost from Embrace the Darkness is mostly going to go into boosting your power, precision, and ferocity – and in the meantime, lower condition damage makes the self-application of Torment while Embracing the Darkness less of a double-edged sword.

Furthermore, I don’t think the revenant is intended to be a profession that builds entirely into one role. The impression I get is that a DPS revenant would be one that has one DPS-focused legend – and one that is less DPS-focused but which helps them survive when the heat turns on them. Jalis or Mallyx would probably be the best options for this – both offer some additional DPS (although Whirling Hammers has been nerfed as a DPS source) – Ventari I wouldn’t recommend with any DPS build, and Shiro/Glint would be far too lacking in condi cleanse. Taking Jalis or Mallyx as something to switch into as an answer to conditions or a means to go more on the defensive would be the equivalent of most other DPS builds tending to use at least two utilities for defensive skills and/or condition cleanse.

BlazeQ.1095:

Maybe I’m the odd ball out, but what happened to teamwork and coordination with ally’s. It seams to me most of the threads regarding this are based as a solo 1v1 perspective. Being weak to Condi just makes me want to grab a friend or 4 that can assist me in that area. I thought the purpose of a MMORPG is to play with other people?

Without necessarily agreeing or disagreeing with the idea that revenant needs more condition removal:

Teamwork and coordination is great… when you can get it. If you’re in a preformed team, then you can plan out things like “this person’s build is weak to conditions, but these other two people can clear conditions off allies, so they’ll support one another”. If you’re going into solo queue, however… even in the unusual case where the rest of the team is willing to talk strategy at all before the game starts, the minute or so you get is usually barely enough to plan an opener, let alone compare builds and make adjustments to complement one another.

The bottomline assumption for PvP is that your build has to be to a certain extent self-sufficient. That doesn’t mean that balance decisions should be made on a 1v1 basis, but it does mean that if the assumption is that you’re made viable because of support from your teammates, the end result is something that will only be viable in organised teams.

it’s a question of what you value more I guess. I can run DPS s/s + staff on shiro/mallyx and have access to condi based heal + resistance, condi clear + healcondi clear on staff (along with nice #5 burst) and still retain huge dmg.

Can make Mallyx/Jalis for condi heal and condi clear heal + hammers for condi dmg reduction along with staff + mace/x

Lots of other things possible too. I don’t think it’s that bad tbh. Can put on staff sigils that clear condis off of you + do a healing or leech or something as well.

There is also iirc condi clear on leg swap trait.

Also Rune of Lyssa “When you use an elite skill, convert up to 5 conditions into boons. (Cooldown: kitten”

Small but always something ;p